The sign was fulfilled by the Apostles speaking in tongues at Pentecost. The sign was fulfilled and there would be no reason for it to continue for centuries thereafter.
Dear God's Truth,
I have an issue with the above statement, because it's your words and not Scripture making this declaration. Also, I have another reason besides that to question its reasoning.
I know the answer you will give to it, but I'll wait for you to give it anyway.
Now for the question.
If what you said were true, then why was tongues continuing in the church, and why was it necessary for Paul to provide guidance on the comportment of the Gift of Tongues in the Church well after Pentecost?
P.S. Now to look at some of the other postings you have done.
God testified to the gospel message by the miraculous signs, such as SPEAKING IN TONGUES, and wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will (Heb 2:4; and Acts 14:3).
God already testified to it and there would be no reason to keep testifying to it.
Again, knowing your answer, it still holds to the continuance of not only the Gift of Tongues, but the other wonders/miracles done by our Lord and Savior. Amazingly, our Lord said in John 14:12 NKJV - "
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater [works] than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
Saying what He said, the only limiting factor in His statement was belief, and condition of time, which was it would happen because He was going to the Father. So, there were no other limiting indicators attached to our Lord's Statement, either in who or time, which would make your closing statement untrue. Also, it was necessary for them (Apostles/believers) to be a witness to the parts yet unknown on the Earth, and this through the power received by the Holy Spirit.
Act 1:8 KJV -
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
If what you say is correct, then after Jesus or even following Pentecost, the power of the Holy Spirit that was upon/in them would cease to give them the power to do what they were called to do. This does not seem reasonable as we see the resulting affects that miracles had on people throughout Scripture, even after said day and our Lord's Ascension. Which only confirms what He told them and not what you believe to have happened.
P.S. Now to move on to another post.
During the laying of the foundation of the church, it was a very special time, to say the least, many things were happening, there were Apostles and Prophets who helped lay the foundation, and they were given the ability to do miracles and signs as a testimony from God.
The foundation has since been laid, and tongues has ceased just as the Bible said it would.
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Now you are adding/taking away conditions to the Gifts that were/are given to believers through the Holy Spirit. It also appears that you are going against your own words in your opening statement in this post, by allowing for the continuance of miracles past Pentecost, which is contrary to what you stated in post #94 "
The sign was fulfilled by the Apostles speaking in tongues at Pentecost. The sign was fulfilled and there would be no reason for it to continue for centuries thereafter."
Sadly, you are also adding to Scripture what is not there by using Ephesians 2:20 to support your premise that the Gift of Tongues have ceased. You open in this post with an attempt at making a self-supporting statement which would hold validity if the Scripture in context held to your position. It does not. You need to keep reading verses 21, and 22 to see that instead of limiting anything to a certain time, it extends it to includes all believers, whether past present or future. I have added both verses 19, and 20 to provide the necessary context.
Eph 2:19 NKJV -
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 NKJV -
having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner[stone],
Eph 2:21 NKJV -
in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
Eph 2:22 NKJV -
in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
P.S. Off to look at another!
Those speaking in tongues could declare the wonders of God (Acts 2:11).
Tongue speakers spoke mysteries (1 Cor 14:2); consequently, the mystery of the gospel has been given (Eph 6:19), the mystery has been revealed (Col 1:26).
Ephesians 3:3-9
3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
We can see from the scriptures that tongue speakers spoke mysteries, and that the mysteries were given. There is no reason for tongues to continue.
Again, you are limiting to the time of its occurrence the communicating of tongues, with Scripture that is not written for that purpose. So, your reasoning that "
There is no reason for tongues to continue." does not hold validity. I simple ask you, "Has the Gospel been heard by everyone on Earth?" Since it has not, isn't it incumbent that believers still be given the Gifts of the Spirit in order to continue to show the wonders of our God? Especially to those people whose language has not yet had Scripture translated into?
P.S. On we go!
I do enjoy any discussion that gets me into Scripture!!!!
The perfect Jesus Christ came, he gave his perfect teachings about the perfect New Covenant, he gave the perfect sacrifice, and we are made perfect by his blood and obeying his perfect words.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
The Bible has everything we need to know for salvation, for our being perfect.
When we have faith in Jesus’ blood and obey Jesus’ teachings, it is when and how we are made perfect.
Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy
Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
James 1:25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
The nowadays tongue speakers claim that tongue speaking will not cease until Jesus comes again. However, we have the perfect now because Jesus came the first time, and the apostles, who were sent to lay the foundation and build upon it.
Again, Jesus the perfect came the first time, and gave the perfect law, and he is the perfect sacrifice who makes us perfect. The Bible is finished and we have Christ revealed, the mystery has been given we are no longer as children speaking as children under the old law.
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Galatians 4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Do I really need to reply to this? Are we perfect like our Lord was and is, or are we changing to a perfection yet to be realized though we be Children of God, and aren't we still to be about the business assigned to us? So, why take away the Gifts which were given to serve the purpose that we are still doing to this day?
Nowadays tongue speakers aren't giving the sign to Jews, they aren't using tongues for unbelievers, they aren't speaking so that those of other languages can be convinced by the speaking in languages supernaturally, the tongues speakers aren't giving new mysteries about God, all the things we are to know are written in the Bible.
Dear God's Truth,
I would tell you that to the unbeliever, they very well may be "new mysteries about God", because either they haven't heard the Gospel, or no one has explained Scripture to them in their own tongue.
Don't get me wrong, I do have issue with how the Gift of Tongues is portrayed and exploited in many churches. However, no matter how wrong that may be doesn't mean that there are not others who have and still reflect the Gifts of the Spirit righteously, to the Glory of God and the furtherance of His Kingdom.
I felt moved to suggest that you reread 1 Corinthians 2 it holds much to consider.
Thank-you for having taken the time to explain your position to me. God Bless.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
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