Israel today

spirit1st · May 31, 2013

We are grafted in as JEWS1 The new Priest tribe which we are part of is Judah !

Joh_4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Mat_19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Joh_19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
God will never forsake Israel 1 He watches over them always !

farout · Jun 1, 2013

Puddleglum said:
If you understand the OT then you could understand.
There is Israel and the others are not. that is the dogs ?
We have Holy Moses as our guide in the OT and the other have only Idols like the golden calf, if one understands this in history you are on your way to understanding.
The Jews as the west put it, is just a blanket term with no depth and just full of ignorance.
The Jews as a hole have been under attack from the start but the problem is with sin and this is why they have failed and will always fail.
There is no such thing as the Jews today as all are as one. there is nether jew or gentile, greek etc. all are the same under Christ, end of story.
If we understand what idolatry truly is and come honestly to be in Christ you can not be lead astray.
There is nothing out there ! come to Christ ! and you say i have mist the mark ?
If I see people crucifying the Lord, do i just walk away.

Puddle: Thanks for the informing me I don't understand the Old Testament, I will try doing better. I guess my 4 years of undergraduate and 4 years of graduate; somewhere I missed the mark. Please don't make insults, it is so unbecoming of Jeus's command to love one another John 13:34,35.

I love dialoguing but when insults start I say " I doubt the dialogue is worth while". Besides TJ says we are not to do it. I try to observe TJ requirements. But most important Jesus said were are not to do it.

farout

Eric E Stahl · Jun 1, 2013

spirit1st · Jun 1, 2013

There are those Born Jews in the flesh and those born of the spirit as Jews!

Of course in Christ Jesus ? Those who are born Again are a;ll counted as Jews and equal in HIM ! It does nor matter if we were men or women or kids in the flesh ! In the Spirit we are all equal ! that does not mean our rewards will be equal of course!

Gen_32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Because the 12 Tribes came out of His SEED ! They are of course those who make up Israel ! The name Israel is sometimes used as all the 12 tribes and sometimes used as part of the 12 tribes!
Just as other words in the bible are used to mean different things ?

It really can be confusing to us ! Giving us the wrong understanding if we are Not Led by the Spirit of Truth !

Heart has a number of meaning as sleep , does and others 1 That why we do not lean to our understanding !

Even the books many count so high on ! Do not have perfect truth our understanding 1 That again is why we must By Faith , hear and trust in the Holy Ghost for our understanding !
We cannot force others to see or argue to the point we get upset !

we just out of LOVE humbly reveal the Truth and pray the LORD can reveal it to them ! If He cannot ? We still love them and remember how hard it been on the LORD to teach us to this point and He Not done with us yet !

God judges us in the Eternal by our Heart [Spirit Being ]

We tend to want to judge others by Sight ! Not by there Heart [Spirit]

The outward man [Person ] Is NOT the important part 1 Only the Inward man is !

Puddleglum · Jun 2, 2013

farout said:
Puddle: Thanks for the informing me I don't understand the Old Testament, I will try doing better. I guess my 4 years of undergraduate and 4 years of graduate; somewhere I missed the mark. Please don't make insults, it is so unbecoming of Jeus's command to love one another John 13:34,35.

I love dialoguing but when insults start I say " I doubt the dialogue is worth while". Besides TJ says we are not to do it. I try to observe TJ requirements. But most important Jesus said were are not to do it.

farout

It was not directed at you personally at all, as you have taken it the wrong way. i do not know why.
It is true what i have said is it not. do you take offence to it ? why ?
I find a lot of people nowdays are into this end of times and in this they have lost or walked away from Christ. and i say this not to you but to all. it does not matter one hoot about anything, but to be in Christ and only in him and once you start going off worship in people one is into Idolatry. Why do people look to Idolatry. we see it all through the OT and it is the problems of what we have now.
I have a mate who pushes this so called Israel idolatry all the time as he is a jews for jesus nut. and this is all he pushes day in day out and, that i must look to the jews for your salvation and he has another Jesus, because all he wants is war and to kill this and that. and is angry at Jesus for not obeying his call. i think he is like a Nazi nut so i don't tell him i am a Hebrew.
I say that one should not kill and he rejects that because he believes in OSAS so he can do as he wills. and after all he has said to me, i see another side to all this foolish Jew idolatry, as it is totally wrong to the way i have known or ever been informed in my 50 years as a Christian.
So i am worried about all this, i hope you will or can understand where i am coming from. as i don't want to offend anyone.

Eric E Stahl · Jun 2, 2013

Puddleglum said:
It was not directed at you personally at all, as you have taken it the wrong way. i do not know why.
It is true what i have said is it not. do you take offence to it ? why ?
I find a lot of people nowdays are into this end of times and in this they have lost or walked away from Christ. and i say this not to you but to all. it does not matter one hoot about anything, but to be in Christ and only in him and once you start going off worship in people one is into Idolatry. Why do people look to Idolatry. we see it all through the OT and it is the problems of what we have now.
I have a mate who pushes this so called Israel idolatry all the time as he is a jews for jesus nut. and this is all he pushes day in day out and, that i must look to the jews for your salvation and he has another Jesus, because all he wants is war and to kill this and that. and is angry at Jesus for not obeying his call. i think he is like a Nazi nut so i don't tell him i am a Hebrew.
I say that one should not kill and he rejects that because he believes in OSAS so he can do as he wills. and after all he has said to me, i see another side to all this foolish Jew idolatry, as it is totally wrong to the way i have known or ever been informed in my 50 years as a Christian.
So i am worried about all this, i hope you will or can understand where i am coming from. as i don't want to offend anyone.

Puddlegum,

Most of the Christians that I have talked to where more on fire for Jesus in proportion to their proper understanding of bible prophecy. You see Jesus is the spirit of prophecy Revelation 19:10. The more you understand prophecy the more you understand Jesus.

Eric E Stahl · Jun 4, 2013

Bambi · Jun 21, 2013

Puddleglum said:
It was not directed at you personally at all, as you have taken it the wrong way. i do not know why.
It is true what i have said is it not. do you take offence to it ? why ?
I find a lot of people nowdays are into this end of times and in this they have lost or walked away from Christ. and i say this not to you but to all. it does not matter one hoot about anything, but to be in Christ and only in him and once you start going off worship in people one is into Idolatry. Why do people look to Idolatry. we see it all through the OT and it is the problems of what we have now.
I have a mate who pushes this so called Israel idolatry all the time as he is a jews for jesus nut. and this is all he pushes day in day out and, that i must look to the jews for your salvation and he has another Jesus, because all he wants is war and to kill this and that. and is angry at Jesus for not obeying his call. i think he is like a Nazi nut so i don't tell him i am a Hebrew.
I say that one should not kill and he rejects that because he believes in OSAS so he can do as he wills. and after all he has said to me, i see another side to all this foolish Jew idolatry, as it is totally wrong to the way i have known or ever been informed in my 50 years as a Christian.
So i am worried about all this, i hope you will or can understand where i am coming from. as i don't want to offend anyone.

Not everyone who calls himself a Christian believes in this end times scenario. There are some who believe that most of Revelation is in the past. They also believe like you. The church is the fulfillment of prophecies. When Christ came he fulfilled many prophecies that brother Stahl still believes to be in the future. Israel is the church, the church is Israel. A true Jew is one born of spirit not the flesh, Roms 2:28-29. Old Testament images are just a shadow of the real deal. Jesus is the true image of those shadows. Hebrews chapter 8. The church is the true Israel. Does God hate the Jewish people, No. Roms 11:1. But the Jews do not have any special way to come to Christ. They need to come to Christ just the same as we Gentiles do. And you're right we should not be worshiping the nation of Israel. It's just a large body of lost souls who need Christ now, not sometime in the future, because if they do not repent before the 2nd coming then they will not have a second chance.

DHC · Jun 21, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
Puddlegum,

Most of the Christians that I have talked to where more on fire for Jesus in proportion to their proper understanding of bible prophecy. You see Jesus is the spirit of prophecy Revelation 19:10. The more you understand prophecy the more you understand Jesus.

Hello Eric.

You said;

'You see Jesus is the spirit of prophecy', Revelation 19:10.

When I read this quotation of yours I thought, there is something amiss.
So I checked the passage and have displayed the passage below.

Revelation 19:10
10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, do not do that;
I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God.
For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Eric please read the passage again.

This passage says 'for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy'.

It is the TESTIMONY OF JESUS that is the spirit of prophecy.

It does not say Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Then you stated, 'The more you understand prophecy the more you understand Jesus.'

That is a theological statement generated from the misunderstanding of Revelations 19:10.

1 John 5:10
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself;
the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar,
because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.

1 John 5:11
And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

Jesus Christ is the testimony we have in our heart and proceeds from our mouth.

For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy!

spirit1st · Jun 21, 2013

God already said ?

2Pe_1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

I know most and I think even me . do not fully understand the full scope of this scripture and others like it .

but , I am sure we have everything in our New creature we will ever need now and Forever more.

Still we are at our best when we fully know ? We need Him more than the air we breathe .

Good to see our Family in the LORD growing and blessing others .

DHC · Jun 21, 2013

spirit1st said:
We are grafted in as JEWS1 The new Priest tribe which we are part of is Judah !

Joh_4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

!

Hello Spirit1st, you know that I read and enjoy your posts. You are walking by the spirit
and not by the flesh, in this I rejoice. But occassionly we all slip at different times. So if you
do not mind my friend, there is a small error in your post.

You said.

We are grafted in as JEWS1 The new Priest tribe which we are part of is Judah !

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Strictly speaking the two verses you quoted Spiritst to support the idea you presented.
The idea that the Gentiles are grafted in as Jews is not the specific narrative of this scripture.
When you quote from Paul's letter to the Romans unless you adhere to context you generate theology.
The line that precedes the two passages that furnishes the specific context is below.

Romans 2
17 But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God

So in the passages that follow, Paul is describing the Jewish condition. Paul is
certainly not referring to the Gentiles at all Spirit1st.

So the verse you quoted.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart,
in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Directly applies to the Jews not the Gentiles!

God bless you Spirit1st, keep posting as I rely on your posts for inspiration.

Thanks mate.

Puddleglum · Jun 22, 2013

Bambi said:
Not everyone who calls himself a Christian believes in this end times scenario. There are some who believe that most of Revelation is in the past. They also believe like you. The church is the fulfillment of prophecies. When Christ came he fulfilled many prophecies that brother Stahl still believes to be in the future. Israel is the church, the church is Israel. A true Jew is one born of spirit not the flesh, Roms 2:28-29. Old Testament images are just a shadow of the real deal. Jesus is the true image of those shadows. Hebrews chapter 8. The church is the true Israel. Does God hate the Jewish people, No. Roms 11:1. But the Jews do not have any special way to come to Christ. They need to come to Christ just the same as we Gentiles do. And you're right we should not be worshiping the nation of Israel. It's just a large body of lost souls who need Christ now, not sometime in the future, because if they do not repent before the 2nd coming then they will not have a second chance.

I believe in the end of times, but not to be obsested with it. what can i do, i don't seek it. i don't need it, as i have Christ living in me and that's all one needs. as what other is there ?
All i can do is be in Jesus as it is he that calls the shots end of story. man brings only destruction due his own seeking and this is due to his own passions.
I see extream evil in this man made passions.

Eric E Stahl · Jun 22, 2013

Puddleglum said:
I believe in the end of times, but not to be obsested with it. what can i do, i don't seek it. i don't need it, as i have Christ living in me and that's all one needs. as what other is there ?
All i can do is be in Jesus as it is he that calls the shots end of story. man brings only destruction due his own seeking and this is due to his own passions.
I see extream evil in this man made passions.

spirit1st · Jun 22, 2013

DHC said:
Hello Spirit1st, you know that I read and enjoy your posts. You are walking by the spirit
and not by the flesh, in this I rejoice. But occassionly we all slip at different times. So if you
do not mind my friend, there is a small error in your post.

You said.

We are grafted in as JEWS1 The new Priest tribe which we are part of is Judah !

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Strictly speaking the two verses you quoted Spiritst to support the idea you presented.
The idea that the Gentiles are grafted in as Jews is not the specific narrative of this scripture.
When you quote from Paul's letter to the Romans unless you adhere to context you generate theology.
The line that precedes the two passages that furnishes the specific context is below.

Romans 2
17 But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God

So in the passages that follow, Paul is describing the Jewish condition. Paul is
certainly not referring to the Gentiles at all Spirit1st.

So the verse you quoted.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart,
in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Directly applies to the Jews not the Gentiles!

God bless you Spirit1st, keep posting as I rely on your posts for inspiration.

Thanks mate.

It about both of us . as We all become one . those born of God of course.

These people were counting on salvation .Just because outwardly they were born Jewish . Paul was explaining that salvation was spiritual , of the heart [our spirit] and had nothing to do with the flesh.

But Jesus only came to Israel . and told the disciples not to go to any but the flesh Jews.
God also said ? He would bless those who blessed Israel and curse those who curse Israel . That all 12 tribes , counted as Israel .

We are grafted in as one of them . The Tribe of Judah . The new Priest tribe.
God started off with only the 12 tribes . They rejected Him . then He turned to the gentiles , Later He turning back to Israel [12 tribes]
He has not forgotten who He came for or the promises He has made too there fore fathers.

we see in heaven [New Jerusalem] each gate has the name of one of the 12 tribes.

We also see The capital of the world during the 1000 years our Lord rules here is in Israel . Old Jerusalem .

Only though Israel are we getting salvation and being allowed to be counted with Them .

Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Joh_4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

We are the other sheep He grafts in as Jews.

Mat_19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luk_22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

the 24 elders were flesh Jews . We know 12 are the 12 disciples. I cannot say for sure who each of the others are ?

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

spirit1st · Jun 22, 2013

He is High priest of the tribe of judah . The new priest tribe. we are the priests under Him

Rev_1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

We need to always think good of Israel and never seek to destroy or hurt her. That nation is very important to GOD.
I know as a nation they do not believe . But God going to reveal Himself to them and they wept and repent .

That the only nation on earth God given lands too . They were not to sale it or give it away .

Bambi · Jun 22, 2013

There is no place in the Bible that says we should show favoritism with any group of people. In several passages in the New Testament it states that God is no respecter of persons. Acts 10:34; Roms 2:11; Eph 6:9, etc. We are to love all equally. Jews, Muslims, Chinese, Africans, European, Indian. To show any favoritism with any group is Antichrist. If the nation of Israel is wrongfully treating a group of people living within their borders, then we should condemn them. Especially if those, they are persecuting are Christians.

spirit1st · Jun 22, 2013

He tells us to prefer to be with our Family in the LORD .
And He tells us if we bless Israel we will be blessed . If we curse Israel we will be cursed.

He also tells us not to fellowship with the unsaved.

But we are to love the unsaved and help them when they allow it .

Gen_12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Eph_5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1Jn_1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn_1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Rom_12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another

;
1Ti_5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
Meaning we Do not count ant in His body better or more than others. But we do honor those in power. God a great believer in obeying those in power. Just as we are to honor the police or judges or so on. It not the person , it what they are Doing ? There job we honor.

2Co_6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Isreal is very important to our LORD

Rev_21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev_21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

listen I get not get upset when others disagree . We can only live in the light we have ? Just because some know a few things more or less means nothing . God LOVES us all equally .

Eric E Stahl · Jun 22, 2013

Bambi said:
There is no place in the Bible that says we should show favoritism with any group of people. In several passages in the New Testament it states that God is no respecter of persons. Acts 10:34; Roms 2:11; Eph 6:9, etc. We are to love all equally. Jews, Muslims, Chinese, Africans, European, Indian. To show any favoritism with any group is Antichrist. If the nation of Israel is wrongfully treating a group of people living within their borders, then we should condemn them. Especially if those, they are persecuting are Christians.

Bambi,
I think we are too favor other Christians a little more then the world.
Galatians 6:9-10
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

spirit1st · Jun 22, 2013

Good Post Eric. Praise the LORD JESUS CHRIST . There are more also . Thank God for you man and you too Bambi.
It good to post scriptures to reveal truth . And the LORD LOVE toward each of us .God Word is alive. It really is living words.

Puddleglum · Jun 23, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
<STYLE>  </STYLE> 2 Peter 3:10–15 KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

We are to know the signs of the end times and be looking for that day with anticipation. It should have an effect on our Christian living, that is why Peter says be diligent!

I have no problem with that at all. but for the anticipation being twisted, it's not good to be looking forward to the evil that's coming before it. only a fool or mad man would want to bring it on. and it only comes on because of evil peoples works.
But some are going way to far with it all.

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