Jesus narrowed down His coming to….

[StewardoftheMystery]

I believe Jesus narrowed down His second coming to a couple of thousand years.

Luke 12:36-38

King James Version

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36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.”

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Look at the bright side, we are almost 2 watches down, and are entering into the third watch.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The Lord will return when the gospel is preached to all nations and tribes on earth, and among them, the Jewish people is the last, for the first will be the last and the last first. Paul confirmed it in Romans 1, that the gospel came to the Jews FIRST and then the Greeks. The burgeoning messianic movement among the Jewish community is a sign of the end times. It's the fulfillment of the fig tree parable.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

The Lord will return when the gospel is preached to all nations and tribes on earth,

Yes, that has been fulfilled

and among them, the Jewish people is the last, for the first will be the last and the last first. Paul confirmed it in Romans 1, that the gospel came to the Jews FIRST and then the Greeks. The burgeoning messianic movement among the Jewish community is a sign of the end times. It's the fulfillment of the fig tree parable.

Yes, after the fullness of the Gentiles is fulfilled, then the Deliverer shall come out of Zion, and remove ungodliness from Jacob.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Yes, that has been fulfilled

No, not yet. Internet was invented about 30 years ago and social media platforms 15 years ago, give or take. And then a lot of Sunday services were streaming online for the whole world to see, that was only two years ago. Then the prevalence of smart phone and internet access all around the world, even in sub-sahara Africa. That bypasses all kinds of barriers and brings the gospel to literally reach out to all tribes and nations on earth, and that's just a beginning.

 

[GodB4Us]

The Lord will return when the gospel is preached to all nations and tribes on earth, and among them, the Jewish people is the last, for the first will be the last and the last first. Paul confirmed it in Romans 1, that the gospel came to the Jews FIRST and then the Greeks. The burgeoning messianic movement among the Jewish community is a sign of the end times. It's the fulfillment of the fig tree parable.

Yes, that has been fulfilled

Yes, after the fullness of the Gentiles is fulfilled, then the Deliverer shall come out of Zion, and remove ungodliness from Jacob.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

To be precise, He said the gospel will be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and then the end shall come. This is not inferring to when Jesus comes. He could very well come just before the time when that is done.

I believe the rapture will occur before that gospel will be preached to all the world for when the end of this world as we know it will come when a third of the earth gets burned up for why the great tribulation comes about.

In Revelation 14:1-5 KJV , we see among those raptured from the earth, 144,000 virgin men that makes up Jesus's personal choir in Heaven as they will follow Him wherever He goes in Heaven and soon, on earth too.

In Revelation 14:6-7 KJV is when that everlasting gospel will be preached to all the world, also announcing that judgment has come which is the end of this world as we know it.

In Revelation 14:8 KJV is the aftermath of judgment having fallen on a third of the earth which is the western hemisphere with fallen Babylon which is USA ( Ever wondered why God separated the continents like that? It sure looks that way )

In Revelation 14:9-11 KJV is the warning given to every one on earth of the consequence for taking the mark of the beast which is to buy & sell for surviving the great tribulation.

So every one will know the gospel, and the fall of Babylon USA, and the consequence for taking the mark of the beast so that no one will be without excuse as those 3 angels has set up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth.

By the way, this explains the promise to the church at Philadelphia as they will not be on earth to go through that trial of temptation.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown

See also 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 KJV for how one can not only lose their crown for failing to run that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily, but one can become a castaway also.

That is why at the rapture, judgment has come on the House of God first for why those who are not ready as found abiding in Him but still in unrepentant iniquity, shall be left behind as the church at Thyatira was warned to repent or else..

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

By His grace, that is how I see for what purpose the everlasting gospel will be preached everywhere and that is to serve as a witness to all nations before Revelation 8:7 KJV comes about for how Babylon is fallen in Revelation 18:1-24 KJV

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

No, not yet. Internet was invented about 30 years ago and social media platforms 15 years ago, give or take. And then a lot of Sunday services were streaming online for the whole world to see, that was only two years ago. Then the prevalence of smart phone and internet access all around the world, even in sub-sahara Africa. That bypasses all kinds of barriers and brings the gospel to literally reach out to all tribes and nations on earth, and that's just a beginning.

In the last 2,000 or so years, I believe the gospel has been preach in every nation. What we see now, is a falling away from the faith, as was also prophesied to happen.

 

[GodB4Us]

In the last 2,000 or so years, I believe the gospel has been preach in every nation. What we see now, is a falling away from the faith, as was also prophesied to happen.

I agree that the falling away from the faith is happening for why God's judging His House first must come at the rapture event before the great tribulation.

After the rapture, the gospel being preached to every nation as in every individual will know the gospel to be without excuse for when they are confronted with the mark of the beast to buy & sell to survive in the coming New World Order which the consequence of taking the mark to buy & sell is the lake of fire for taking that mark as forewarned.

None of His saints will take the mark as they have His seal as He is faithful in keeping the souls of His saints that get left behind as well as the souls of new believers as well. That is Him doing a good job there. 1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I believe the rapture will occur before that gospel will be preached to all the world for when the end of this world as we know it will come when a third of the earth gets burned up for why the great tribulation comes about.

In Revelation 14:1-5 KJV , we see among those raptured from the earth, 144,000 virgin men that makes up Jesus's personal choir in Heaven as they will follow Him wherever He goes in Heaven and soon, on earth too.

In Revelation 14:6-7 KJV is when that everlasting gospel will be preached to all the world, also announcing that judgment has come which is the end of this world as we know it.

In Revelation 14:8 KJV is the aftermath of judgment having fallen on a third of the earth which is the western hemisphere with fallen Babylon which is USA ( Ever wondered why God separated the continents like that? It sure looks that way )

In Revelation 14:9-11 KJV is the warning given to every one on earth of the consequence for taking the mark of the beast which is to buy & sell for surviving the great tribulation.

So every one will know the gospel, and the fall of Babylon USA, and the consequence for taking the mark of the beast so that no one will be without excuse as those 3 angels has set up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth.

By the way, this explains the promise to the church at Philadelphia as they will not be on earth to go through that trial of temptation.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown

See also 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 KJV for how one can not only lose their crown for failing to run that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily, but one can become a castaway also.

That is why at the rapture, judgment has come on the House of God first for why those who are not ready as found abiding in Him but still in unrepentant iniquity, shall be left behind as the church at Thyatira was warned to repent or else..

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

By His grace, that is how I see for what purpose the everlasting gospel will be preached everywhere and that is to serve as a witness to all nations before Revelation 8:7 KJV comes about for how Babylon is fallen in Revelation 18:1-24 KJV

There are so many errors in what you said above, that there is no easy way to address them all.

There is no 7 year tribulation, nor a pre-trib or mid-trib “rapture” that is doctrines of men. The dead in Christ rise first, and that is on the “last day” at the “ last trump”.

The 144,000 have already been redeemed…

Revelation 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

And the mark of the man/beast is sin, which has been around since Cain.

I’m not going to comment on the rest.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I agree that the falling away from the faith is happening for why God's judging His House first must come at the rapture event before the great tribulation.

After the rapture, the gospel being preached to every nation as in every individual will know the gospel to be without excuse for when they are confronted with the mark of the beast to buy & sell to survive in the coming New World Order which the consequence of taking the mark to buy & sell is the lake of fire for taking that mark as forewarned.

None of His saints will take the mark as they have His seal as He is faithful in keeping the souls of His saints that get left behind as well as the souls of new believers as well. That is Him doing a good job there. 1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV

This is all non scriptural fantasy land doctrine of men. There is no pre-trib rapture, if there was, it could be proven by the words of God.

The dead in Christ rise first, and that is on the last day, as Jesus said.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

In the last 2,000 or so years, I believe the gospel has been preach in every nation. What we see now, is a falling away from the faith, as was also prophesied to happen.

Unfortunately no, it hardly broke out of Europe until the great geographic discovery. In the last days, people shall run to and fro, and knowledge will increase, that was talking about the great commission, that could not be truly fulfilled without modern transportation and communication technologies.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

In the last days, people shall run to and fro, and knowledge will increase, that was talking about the great commission,

You are way off course on that one.
That is not talking about the great commission, but the very last days, and the resurrection of God’s saints.

Daniel 12:1-4​

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King James Version​

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12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.”

 

[GodB4Us]

There are so many errors in what you said above, that there is no easy way to address them all.

For maintaining the truth in keeping the faith, you should try but at least you are addressing a few.

There is no 7 year tribulation, nor a pre-trib or mid-trib “rapture” that is doctrines of men.

Did you know there is a special rapture for the two witnesses that died, resurrected, and finally ascended halfway through that great tribulation?

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

You may claim it is a doctrine of men but they have scripture for why you should reconsider that it may very well not be the doctrine of men so ask Him today, because there is no way verse 12 can apply to your belief and yet it exists.

The dead in Christ rise first, and that is on the “last day” at the “ last trump”.

Then ask yourself why Paul had written it in that way about every man in his own order?

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

I note firstfruit ( s ) is plural meaning Christ is not the only firstfruit of the resurrection. Why else dictate an order to the resurrection in being made alive?

The 144,000 have already been redeemed…

Revelation 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Being of a prophetic nature, this verse is yet to happen along with the following 3 angels after the rapture event. To infer that this had already happened is to infer that the 3 angels had already happened also but that is not the proper application of His words since obviously we are not in the great tribulation yet, but we are in the regular tribulation of the latter days before He comes as the Bridegroom to judge His House first at the rapture event.

And the mark of the man/beast is sin, which has been around since Cain.

Specifically described as being able to buy & sell with that mark.

Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

That is what the New World Order is all about; a one world currency which at present in Europe, a few are using that biochip to buy & sell but it is not the mark of the beast yet until it is the only means to buy & sell which will be the case in the great tribulation after a third of the earth is burned up after the rapture event which is the western hemisphere with USA, for why resources will be allocated and dispense to the world by that mark of the beast system for survival.

I’m not going to comment on the rest.

Well, I am thankful to the Lord for a few of your comments and hopefully you may see the necessity to delve into the word to correct me, or at least understand why I believe as I do by the scriptures referenced. It will not be a small task. You may even find yourself being pruned by Him to be more fruitful in the knowledge of Him. Or I will be blessed. Eiether way, I believe I have given grounds for discussions to commence if the Lord wills it.

 

[GodB4Us]

This is all non scriptural fantasy land doctrine of men. There is no pre-trib rapture, if there was, it could be proven by the words of God.

It is, but it seems to be hidden in plain sight.

The dead in Christ rise first, and that is on the last day, as Jesus said.

Actually, there is an order to this resurrection as explained earlier and so in all respect, the last day according to the firstfruits of the resurrection will happen just as next resurrection will happen alter on when they that be Christ's at His coming will have their resurrection at their last day.


1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

It is, but it seems to be hidden in plain sight.

So prove it by scripture. Show us where there is a 7 year tribulation mentioned in scripture. When does it start, when does it end?

Actually, there is an order to this resurrection as explained earlier and so in all respect, the last day according to the firstfruits of the resurrection will happen just as next resurrection will happen alter on when they that be Christ's at His coming will have their resurrection at their last day.


1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Your whole doctrine is in error. The first fruits of Israel ( the 144,000) rose right after Jesus Christ was resurrected.= Christ and the first fruits of Israel

Matthew 27:51-53​

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King James Version​

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51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

And there is no special rapture of the 2 witnesses, because they are raised up at the last Trump at the last day as is written.

Revelation 11:12-15​

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King James Version​

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12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

when is the resurrection of the dead, and the living in Christ being caught up to the Lord?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”​

Notice we see #1 the Lord himself decending, #2 the trump of the archangel is sounded, #3 “the dead rise first”and #4 the living are caught up to meet the Lord.

So when do the dead in Christ rise first? The answer is below…

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

So it is clear, the dead are raised on “the last day”.
Notice the judgment is also on the last day as well….
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The Judgment of saints is shown on the last day…. Revelation 20:4 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Confirmed here….

Daniel 7:21-22 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.”​

When do saints posses the kingdoms of this world?

Revelation 11:15 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”​

Daniel was told when he shall stand in the lot of his inheritance, at that was not until the end.

Daniel 12:13 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.​

Notice in the above, (Daniel 7:22) Christ first comes and the judgment is given to the saints on the last day.

So when does Christ come?

Son of Gods coming last day….

Luke 17:26-31​

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”​

Notice above it was “the day” Noah entered they were destroyed, and “the same day” Lot left Sodom they were destroyed.
At the last day, at the Last Trump….

1Corinthians 15:51-52 “Behold I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead in Christ shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed”

Notice at the last trump the dead are raised, and so what happens at the last trump…

Revelation 10:7 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.​

Revelation 11:12 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.​

Revelation 11:15 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”​

Also notice the elect are still on earth during the great tribulation and wrath of God.

Matthew 24:22 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.​

Revelation 7:14 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

Revelation 16:15 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.​

All the scriptures agree there is no resurrection of the dead or living in Christ until the last day, and at the last trump.


Now some will try to use Matthew 24:40-41 And Luke 17:34-37 as pre-trib rapture proof, but again Jesus says it has to do with His coming, when the Son is revealed. And both of those prophecies speak of the destruction of the ungodly on that same day, as it was in Noah’s day and in Lots day, just as we saw above in Luke 17:26-31. It says the same in Matthew 24:38 that “the day” Noah entered the ark the flood came and took them all away.

Now in Luke17:36 Jesus said one shall be taken, and the other left. In the next verse Jesus is asked where? Jesus replies “Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.” To prove this has to do with Christs second coming we go to Matthew 24:27-28 “ For as the lightning comes out of th east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.”

So what is Jesus speaking of here about a carcase and eagles being gathered together? Jesus is speaking of the supper of the great God mentioned in Revelation 19:17 And if you look at the context of Revelation chapter 19:11-21 it is about the second coming of Christ with all his saints, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the slaughter of the beasts army and the kings of the earth, and their flesh being fed to the fowls. And also the judgment of the beast and false prophet, which happens on the last day.

Revelation 19:11-2111 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.​

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;​

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”​

So all the scriptures agree, all these things happen on the last day.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

A lot of people wonder when the catching up to the Lord will happen, and where they go. But this event is clearly spoken of in scripture as happening at the last trump beginning with the shout, or the great voice. What many may not know though is the raising of the dead in Christ first is also shown in the Lords 2 witnesses being caught up to heaven, as their dead bodies also represent the dead in Christ being raised up first. Let’s piece this mystery together to show the timing of events, and where they go.

1 Corinthians 15:52 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Ok, first notice the connection of the dead being raised first, and the shout or voice mentioned and the trump of God. But also notice how Paul described they would be caught up, which was in the clouds. Now let’s go to where the 2 witnesses are being raised up from the dead.

Revelation 11:12-19 “And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

Alright first notice the sequence of events, the great voice is heard first (shout) and the dead in Christ are raised first, and then the remnant that remain give glory to God, and then 7th trump sounds=last trump. But also notice the dead are caught up to heaven in the clouds, this is an important sign to confirm as to where they are going. So with that let’s view this at another angle in….

Daniel 7:9-14 “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”

Ok, this is the same event but with more details, first notice the beast was slain and his body given to the burning flame. And then also notice the Son of man (Son of God) coming to the Ancient of days in heaven (God the Father) with all the saints (with the clouds of heaven) as we saw the dead caught up to heaven in the clouds in Rev. 12:12. By the way the clouds represent the great cloud of witnesses shown in Hebrews 12:1

This same event in Daniel can also be confirmed again here….


Revelation 19:19-21 “And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.” Notice there the remnant slain as also shown in Rev. 11:13, but there is also a remnant who would repent and give glory to God.
And then it picks up again in Revelation 20: 4-6 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

So by all these scriptures we get a better idea of when the catching up to the Lord will be, and where the
saints go for the first resurrection judgement, and remain, at least until the indignation of God’s wrath is complete.

Isaiah 26:20-21 “ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.”
May the grace of our Lord be with you, Peace and God bless.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

That is what the New World Order is all about; a one world currency which at present in Europe, a few are using that biochip to buy & sell but it is not the mark of the beast yet until it is the only means to buy & sell

So prove it by the words of God

which will be the case in the great tribulation after a third of the earth is burned up after the rapture event

So prove it by the words of God

which is the western hemisphere with USA, for why resources will be allocated and dispense to the world by that mark of the beast system for survival.

So prove it by the words of God

Well, I am thankful to the Lord for a few of your comments and hopefully you may see the necessity to delve into the word to correct me,

Here is my correction to you. Prove your theory of a 7 year tribulation by the words of God. Prove your rapture theory by the words of God. Prove your New world order theory by the words of God. Prove the theory that the mark of the beast is a biochip but the words of God. Show by the words of God how a chip is related the name, number, and image of the beast.

You see, I can prove all my points by the words of God. But all these theories of men you cannot prove by the words of God.

If you cannot prove all your beliefs by the words of God, then they are just wild theories of carnally minded men.

 

[GodB4Us]

So prove it by scripture. Show us where there is a 7 year tribulation mentioned in scripture. When does it start, when does it end?

When the command is given to actually start to build the third Temple as part of a peace treaty with Israel, is the beginning of the 7 year great tribulation. The meta[phor of "the week" being 7 years is applied below.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 11:1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Forty two months is 3 and a half years for when that son of perdition will reveal himself in that third temple for how he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Your whole doctrine is in error. The first fruits of Israel ( the 144,000) rose right after Jesus Christ was resurrected.= Christ and the first fruits of Israel

Remember that Revelation 14:1-5 has them as virgin men and so how can King David or Moses or any of the O.T. saints that should be of the firstfruits be considered virgin men? So I believe the wording as being redeemed from the earth is inferring being raptured from among the living on earth.

Matthew 27:51-53​

​

King James Version​

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

Paul refuted this for why many lost their faith thinking the resurrection was past already.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

May I ask you how the vessels unto dishonor can still be in His House when the vessels unto honor are the ones that departed from iniquity?

Thus judgment is coming on the House of God first per 1 Peter 4:17 for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House, of those left behind to die at the rapture event, but their spirits will be with the Lord to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings as vessels of wood and earth for why they are still in His House.

And there is no special rapture of the 2 witnesses, because they are raised up at the last Trump at the last day as is written.

Explain verse 12 in this reference then.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

You either address that verse or you are using other scriptures ij favor of ignoring the plainness of that verse 12 as a special rapture of the 2 witnesses halfway through the great tribulation.

Revelation 11:12-15​

King James Version​

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It is the 12th verse that needs to be addressed and not overlooked in favor of verse 15 which is heralding how God will judge the nations in the latter half of the great tribulation and has not happened yet as obviously more woes are coming during that great tribulation as pointed out in verse 14 in your quoted reference.

 

[GodB4Us]

when is the resurrection of the dead, and the living in Christ being caught up to the Lord?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”​

Notice we see #1 the Lord himself decending, #2 the trump of the archangel is sounded, #3 “the dead rise first”and #4 the living are caught up to meet the Lord.

But therein is your error because you applied the trump of the angel when that is the Lord's voice speaking. There are trumps to be sounded, for sure, but reread that reference as this is the Lord that speaks from Heaven and not by any archangel, let alone any angel sounding a trump. This is about how His voice is.

Revelation 20:1-6 has this "first resurrection" occurring AFTER the defeat of the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem and Satan is already in the pit for a thousand years..

If you compare Zachariah 14:1-5 that the Lord is coming back with His saints ( the pre great tribulation raptured saints ) to do battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem as His feet touched down on the Mount of Olives, then the Lord is already on earth BEFORE He resurrects those saints in Revelation 20:1-6. Jesus is not meeting those saints as they that be Christ's at His coming, in the air at all because He is already on earth having defeated the world's armies and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years.

AND verse 5 is key to understanding what John meant by first resurrection because obviously to me, thanks to the Lord, it is not THE first resurrection since the rapture was before the great tribulation, BUT it is THE resurrection that is to happen FIRST BEFORE the rest of the dead are resurrected later on. That is all it is meant to infer by the wording of first resurrection for why the significance of Revelation 20:5 should be applied.

Indeed, it explains the conundrum of who the saints were that Jesus was coming back with in Zechariah 14:1-5 in touching down on the Mount of Olives to do battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem and yet after having defeated them and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years as to whom He was resurrecting after that which are the left behind saints and new believers that have died, going into the bed of and thru the great tribulation.

So the raptured saints occurs before the great tribulation as Christ the firstfruits while they that be Christ at His coming, are not meeting Him in the air but on earth because Jesus has defeated the world's armies & Satan is in the pit. See?

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

When the command is given to actually start to build the third Temple as part of a peace treaty with Israel, is the beginning of the 7 year great tribulation. The meta[phor of "the week" being 7 years is applied below.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

That prophecy concerning the first coming of Messiah and the 70 weeks of Daniel has already been fulfilled. So that as proof of a future 7 year trib is a big fail

Revelation 11:1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

That time began in 70 ad. When the AOD was set up per Daniel 12:11.

Forty two months is 3 and a half years for when that son of perdition will reveal himself in that third temple for how he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

There is no need for a third temple to be built, that also is false doctrine.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That prophecy is about the falling away from the faith, and the “ man of sin” is speaking of the parable Jesus spoke concerning a whole wicked generation which Jesus referred to as “a man” in Matthew 12:43-45

Remember that Revelation 14:1-5 has them as virgin men and so how can King David or Moses or any of the O.T. saints that should be of the firstfruits be considered virgin men?

You do not understand the symbolic language. Paul also said he wanted to present the Gentiles a pure virgins to Christ

So I believe the wording as being redeemed from the earth is inferring being raptured from among the living on earth.

As I showed you by scripture the first fruits of Israel were raised up right after Jesus. The law also confirms the timing of the harvest of the first fruits, which happens right after the Passover Lamb is killed.

Paul refuted this for why many lost their faith thinking the resurrection was past already.

Paul would not refute the words of God and the gospel accounts, that is foolishness.

And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.>>>>>>>>>>

21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

May I ask you how the vessels unto dishonor can still be in His House when the vessels unto honor are the ones that departed from iniquity?

They won’t be unless they are purged of iniquity= verse 21

Thus judgment is coming on the House of God first per 1 Peter 4:17 for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House,

Again they won’t be for long unless they are purged. Jesus said a servant of sin abides not in the house forever.

of those left behind to die at the rapture event,

None of Gods saints will be left behind, it is written He comes with ALL His saints

Explain verse 12 in this reference then.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

That is the fulfilling of the shout, and the voice from heaven….
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

It is the 12th verse that needs to be addressed and not overlooked in favor of verse 15 which is heralding how God will judge the nations in the latter half of the great tribulation and has not happened yet as obviously more woes are coming during that great tribulation as pointed out in verse 14 in your quoted reference.

I posted a whole study on the resurrection in this thread that explains everything, if you back and read it. Post # 15 -16