Joel Osteen's "Your Best Life Now"

[To Christ]

Luke 6:39-42
Hypocrite! First get rid of the log from your own eye; then perhaps you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.
good scripture, To Christ but you left out part of the text.

Amen, jiggyfly! And I left it out so you would quote it to me to and have opportunity to imply I should get rid of the log in my eye, instead of your thinking I am trying to pound to at a log in your eye.

If you noticed, those of us defending the Lakewood Church ministry are not putting down the type of preaching you seem to think is the only style of evangelical gift. So why do we allow for the differences in those that teach from the Word, while you are choosing to find fault in someone who is serving God as is his particular calling? As mentioned in Chad's post, Joel Osteen in every service invites to make Jesus Lord and Savior; also he makes it clear that the Bible is his one source of teaching. He is an example of a human being serving Jesus by living a family centered, wholesome life. Similar to those that hunted for sin in Daniel's life to discredit him, the hunt to discredit Joel Osteen came up with nothing (see links in Chad's post). Though you may have a problem with Christians' having material success, there are many wealthy Christians who give proportional to their blessings. What you can't see of such ministers is the sacrifices they have to make behind the scenes. There are plenty of people in the world who just don't like anyone who appears happy, smiling, good-looking, and blessed with family. If you continue to question his ministry, maybe you should write him a letter, where it might have more effect than simply talking about someone on the basis of your preference in ministry. "And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen." (Philippians4:19-20)

Sistermom, I agree with what you say, and appreciate your thoughtful answer. I also have gotten a great deal from all the ministers you mention. Each have been my favorite source of teaching at different times according to my changing needs. Especially, there were long stretches where I wouldn't miss a day or a week of Chuck Swindoll or Charles Stanley. I am so grateful for the diversity and access to such a great spectrum of servants of our Lord. Thank you for your kindness. :shade:

God bless you!! :

 

[jiggyfly]

Amen, jiggyfly! And I left it out so you would quote it to me to and have opportunity to imply I should get rid of the log in my eye, instead of your thinking I am trying to pound to at a log in your eye.
If you noticed, those of us defending the Lakewood Church ministry are not putting down the type of preaching you seem to think is the only style of evangelical gift. So why do we allow for the differences in those that teach from the Word, while you are choosing to find fault in someone who is serving God as is his particular calling? As mentioned in Chad's post, Joel Osteen in every service invites to make Jesus Lord and Savior; also he makes it clear that the Bible is his one source of teaching. He is an example of a human being serving Jesus by living a family centered, wholesome life. Similar to those that hunted for sin in Daniel's life to discredit him, the hunt to discredit Joel Osteen came up with nothing (see links in Chad's post). Though you may have a problem with Christians' having material success, there are many wealthy Christians who give proportional to their blessings. What you can't see of such ministers is the sacrifices they have to make behind the scenes. There are plenty of people in the world who just don't like anyone who appears happy, smiling, good-looking, and blessed with family. If you continue to question his ministry, maybe you should write him a letter, where it might have more effect than simply talking about someone on the basis of your preference in ministry. "And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen." (Philippians4:19-20)
Sistermom, I agree with what you say, and appreciate your thoughtful answer. I also have gotten a great deal from all the ministers you mention. Each have been my favorite source of teaching at different times according to my changing needs. Especially, there were long stretches where I wouldn't miss a day or a week of Chuck Swindoll or Charles Stanley. I am so grateful for the diversity and access to such a great spectrum of servants of our Lord. Thank you for your kindness. :shade:
God bless you!! :

I think maybe you are misunderstanding something here, I didn't imply anything in the last post I made. And you are free to listen and follow whoever you desire to. Be blessed.

 

[Sucat]

No, Chad--with all due respect---those "fools" you are talking about happen to be those who love Christ "SO" much that they are willing to fight for true Bible teaching!!!!! Yes, let us return to what the Bible tells us. We need to be discerning. This is just a matter of understanding what the true Gospel is. That's all. ^_^ This is the key. *smile* Only until we understand and can Biblically articulate what the Gospel is--according to Scripture---will things all work themselves out. We will know who is teaching false and who is teaching correct Bible truth.

We shouldn't judge Mr. Osteen based on his sincerity---I'm sure he is very sincere and full of love. We should judge Mr. Osteen based on what he is teaching. No, we shouldn't repent for being discerning. God calls us to!

People, if you don't like Joel Osteen, something is wrong. This is not a matter of opinion. He is a human being serving GOD and doing a fine job. The best of the best out there as far as I'm concerned and I am certainly not one lacking "clues" to what is out there. I am on the Internet almost 24/7 (seriously) and I keep up with the news.

Sorry, Chad but I seem to have a problem with this. I believe "that Christ did not come to judge the righteous but sinners to repentence." Does Mr. Osteen talk about "Sin, Righteousness, and Judgement"? The key to Salvation is an understanding of sin. Read 2 Cor. 7:9. It talks about how one really gets saved. Does Mr. Osteen talk about it? I don't think so....

 

[Chad]

Sucat....when you preach to someone do you condemn them for their sins? Do you preach to every soul you know is lost? If your answer is no, do you feel guilty or innocent of that? GOD gives each person according to His will. He has a plan and purpose for each person. One will evangelize, one preach, one heal, one faith builder, and so on, so forth.

So Joel does not seem to soothe your soul according to what your view is but do you think him inviting viewers/listeners to read the bible, find a Bible based church and accept Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior is not good enough? Aren't these three things the first steps to receiving Jesus Christ and learning about sin/repentance? I believe so.

John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

[Sucat]

I say, you're fast Chad! Yes, Chad I do feel a need to show sinners the mirror of the Law---James 1: 22-25. Yes, it helps give greater JOY and UTTER AWE when the pardon of Christ is produced. SIMPLE! You see! When one understands his disease---then the cure, when it is given, gives a person greater JOY AND LOVE AND PEACE. Understanding just how incredible Christ's sacrifice for us wicked creatures makes our Salvation sweet.

 

[Sucat]

YEHHHHEEESSSS!!! This is the essence of the true Gospel!!! "Let us not trifle with God or trivialize his love. We will never stand in awe of being loved by God until we reckon with the seriousness of our sin and the justice of his wrath against us. But when, by grace, we waken to our unworthiness, then we may look at the suffering and death of Christ and say, 'In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the [wrath-absorbing] propitiation for our sins" 1 John 4 :10. Also, Yes, I have spoke to many and have witnessed using Jesus' method of preaching. Luke 18. Jesus used the Law of God to convict the rich young ruler. He did not say, "YA'All be blessed, now ask Me into your heart." No, Jesus did not! I use JDJD! What Did Jesus Do? when I witness.

 

[To Christ]

YEHHHHEEESSSS!!! This is the essence of the true Gospel!!! "Let us not trifle with God or trivialize his love. We will never stand in awe of being loved by God until we reckon with the seriousness of our sin and the justice of his wrath against us. But when, by grace, we waken to our unworthiness, then we may look at the suffering and death of Christ and say, 'In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the [wrath-absorbing] propitiation for our sins" 1 John 4 :10. Also, Yes, I have spoke to many and have witnessed using Jesus' method of preaching. Luke 18. Jesus used the Law of God to convict the rich young ruler. He did not say, "YA'All be blessed, now ask Me into your heart." No, Jesus did not! I use JDJD! What Did Jesus Do? when I witness.

Sucat, you began in this thread asking why you disagree, as if you want to learn. But you have thwarted every effort to show you that God has more diversity in the human race than can be reached by adhering to one mode of witness. You are so in love with being warlike that you elevate it above the multitude of ways Jesus used to reach souls. What did Jesus do? He spoke to people as individuals. Even the rich young ruler was a particular case where Jesus saw that the man loved wealth above God. That is why Jesus told him personally to give up his possessions. Our Lord certainly does not require that of everyone. He speaks to each individual as only God our Creator knows us.

The fact of life is that you are wrong about witnessing. Most people do not come to Christ because they are ashamed of their deeds, moved by Christ's sacrifice and want forgiveness for sins. The greater majority first come to Christ because they want something to fill their emptiness and find that in the love of God; or they want a good Lord because they are weary; or they have no one and find an ultimate Companion in Jesus; or they are simply drawn to the joy that believers have; or they have always felt like nothing and to know that the Creator of the universe humbled Himself to become frail like we is strengthening; Or they are parents and understand the ultimate sacrifice; or they are awed by the reality that Jesus died and was resurrected, and they want eternal life. In none of these things does anyone have to first understand their own sin. When they accept that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, the Holy Spirit works in them to convict of sin. People simply want to obey and be like Him with whom they find love - that is the more usual reason for repentance.

How fortunate for you if God has graced you with encountering people who have already been prepared by the Holy Spirit to repent at your exhortation. So that then would be your particular calling. But it would leave millions of people out of desiring Jesus, because vast numbers of non-Christians are not drawn to Christ by having their sins pointed out. Obviously this is information that every Christian knows is essential for a believer, but it is not the door opener more often than not.

What did Jesus do? Gave people hope. When He spoke to the masses, as the Sermon on the Mount, he bolstered them.

You might be blessed to open your eyes, Sucat, and see the extraordinary diversity of individuals God created and the unsearchable variety of gifts God provides His servants to communicate salvation. How can you see that Christ is so limitless there is always something to learn about Him, if you have preconceived everything according to your personal standard?

 

[califlower]

Since Joel Osteen is my favorite preacher now, and I agree 110% with To Christ and Chad here, and have seen so many many TV evangelists over the years, I've noticed something about this thread. Maybe it's not real obvious yet.



The people who really WATCH Joel... KNOW his sermons... think he's awesome. Those who don't, those who have only seen maybe part of a show, an interview, and RUMOR... do NOT know Joel at all, but are making all kinds of speculations and judgements. MY ADVICE? WATCH HIM! And keep an open mind! Because some people have blasted him for exactly what you just said he DOESN'T talk about - Salvation. Joel has been BLASTED for saying that YES, you CAN lose your salvation - because he ISN'T a Calvinist. Those following Calvinist "faith only" teachings do not like him whatsoever because he addresses the issue. And.... YES, he has a FRIENDLY sermon! What a BREATH OF FRESH AIR! It seems "social" because it's broken down for the lowest common denominator to understand and embrace living as a REAL Christian - treating others in a Christian way, letting your light shine to others, being grateful to God - which is why IT'S GREAT FOR KIDS! My children watch it on Sunday morning and Joel always kicks it off with a good religious joke. My children laugh, and then they're ready to hear him. He talks about APPLYING CHRISTIANITY TO YOUR LIFE. HOW TO BE A BETTER CHRISTIAN through the WORD OF GOD, and through the LOVE of Jesus Christ! Honestly, what can be better than this? If all preachers taught the same way, since different people have different "learning styles", how would we all learn from the same old teaching styles?

And he doesn't beg for money, either. Something tells me he doesn't have to when the whole world is flocking to your church. He's got the fastest-growing church in the United States, which is WHY Larry King invited him on his show. If you really watched without judging Joel so hard, you would have noted that Larry King really painted him in a corner a few times, trying hard to make Joel slip up; and what you said about him, that he "didn't answer the question" - WRONG - he answered EVERY QUESTION that Larry put forth to him, but not exactly as Larry would like; he avoided political PITFALLS into which Mr. King was leading him several times, trying to make the church and himself look bad. He beat him at that game. It was actually beautiful to watch, Joel was like a ballet dancer, avoiding being pegged, labelled, and SHOVED INTO THE BOX like Larry wanted to do, in the "Oh, you're just another TV Evangelist" box. But see, Joel ISN'T like most of these. He had a very challenging job in taking over his father's ministry - HIS FAMILY THOUGHT HE'D NEVER BE THE ONE CHOSEN TO DO SO. They felt certain his older brothers would take it over. Remind you of anybody?? David, maybe?

Probably the most insightful thing I've seen in this thread, is this:

For Joel preaching in front of thousands where it is possibly easy for a psychotic demon to want to kill the man - is that easy too? The pressure, the back lash from the devils - is this easy also?

Just the fact that this man has been getting up in front of MILLIONS OF VIEWERS and public scrutiny for many years now, under the pressure cooker of trying to fill his father's shoes - is incredible. And then, wound up making his father's church the most FAMOUS TODAY in the United States...? Looks to me like God has blessed him plenty! So why the judgement here from people who don't even really KNOW Joel?? (Or they wouldn't call it a "social" event... nor would they claim he doesn't talk about Salvation...) Beats me!!

In any case, going wandering off on "judge not lest ye be judged" which is not about discerning false prophets or wolves in sheeps clothing, and lamentations that we don't believe in "healing gifts" which has *never been said* here, and I'm sure wouldn't be - since it's scriptural - isn't helpful to the discussion, IMHO.

God bless you all for seeking the Truth in this thread.

Love in Christ
CaliFlower :rose:

 

[Sucat]

I'm replying.

Uh,uh, nope. Christ did not die for our God-Shaped Hole. Christ died to satisfy Justice. Our sins are storing up Wrath on the day of Wrath. We are lying to the unsaved as though we are ashamed of the Truth. It is not easy to tell people that yes, they will go to Hell if they do not repent and trust. Instead, we tell them that they will have peace, fullfillment and all this happiness. But they are being lied to. Christ promised only two things: Salvation and Persecution. The world hates Christ. The Bible says the way of Salvation is foolishness to the unsaved. The unsaved get disillusioned when they see that in reality following Christ is exteamely hard. It is self-denying, it is humbling. Diversity isn't the issue. It is what we are telling people. You can be very diverse and different yet still preach the same message. This is called Christian Unity. Why is it that all of you disagree with peaching about sin first then Gospel then about the Judgement to come. In Acts, Paul reasoned with Felix about Judgement, Self Control and Sin. There are not many ways to sharing the Gospel. There is only ONE way. But in sharing it you can be as creative as you can. Let us not preach another Gospel. Mr. Osteen is.

 

[Chad]

Let us not preach another Gospel. Mr. Osteen is.

Please do not make false lies about others. What is the other gospel is he preaching? The only one he preaches is the Holy Bible. It is wrong of you to slander your own BROTHER in Christ accusing him of something not true. I will not tolerate that whatsoever on Talk Jesus. It is not my opinion but truth. Its clearly obvious you do not watch Joel Osteen at all. If you did, you wouldn't slander and falsely accuse him like that.

I have read his book and plenty watch his sermons. Nothing he has expresses was unbiblical at all. Please be careful with your words and false assumptions. I don't enjoy booting people from Talk Jesus but to slander innocent people is not right and I cannot allow that here.

God bless.

 

[Sucat]

Alright, sigh, ok I won't come back.

Sigh, my intention was not to attack Mr. Osteen personally--but what he preaches. I just wanted to state what the Bible says. But if those who speak "Bible say, Bible say, Bible say" are not welcome then I'll leave humbly. Thanks you guys---alll of you. This website helped me grow in ways you'll never know. Praise God for all of you.

PRAISE GOD! I love when I see soooo many who love Christ.

I'll sign off for good.

Sucat---who is not a divider but a humble friend who will always encourage with 100% Bible teaching.

 

[Chad]

Let's try this again.

"What is the other gospel is he preaching?"

You have not answered the simple question. Let's see how much knowledge you have about someone you accuse of preaching "another gospel".

 

[Fellowservant]

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Me... you, Joel Olsteen, Jimmy Swaggart, or who ever, will in the end give an account before God. So my prayer is that we overcome all temptation and put our trust in him.

God bless

 

[To Christ]

As is in Joel Osteen's message, Christ died exactly so that our emptiness will be filled by the Holy Spirit. Thus we have joy, because the life of Jesus is in us. Hence, everyone can have discouragement replaced by joy, because His life in us conquers our sins. Our unity is all of us looking in the same direction - at Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

"'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for you souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.'" (Matthew 11:28-30)

†

 

[Mike]

Leave Him Alone . Jesus Christ is our Saviour . Trust in him . All are flawed and Joel is no different . Trust in the Lord and read your bible yourself . There is good and bad in all people . God is in control so let's walk together in peace and if need be , pray for Joel Osteen . Peace . Mike :note:

 

[califlower]

Alright, sigh, ok I won't come back.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sigh, my intention was not to attack Mr. Osteen personally--but what he preaches. I just wanted to state what the Bible says. But if those who speak "Bible say, Bible say, Bible say" are not welcome then I'll leave humbly. Thanks you guys---alll of you. This website helped me grow in ways you'll never know. Praise God for all of you.

PRAISE GOD! I love when I see soooo many who love Christ.

I'll sign off for good.

Sucat---who is not a divider but a humble friend who will always encourage with 100% Bible teaching.

Well. I'd like to know, Sucat, before you tear out of here over one small challenge to you - did you ever even watch Joel Osteen at length? Can you please tell me if you really felt that he was preaching "another gospel", and which one this "other gospel" is, that you feel is "not biblical", as you have implied? Because you are not specific in any of your posts. And, although yes, you can quote the bible all day long - anybody can without TRUE understanding of the text - what you're doing is just posting scripture you have inaccurately and very loosely tried to tie to this issue. Which won't work with those of us who truly DO know scripture, who wrote it, who complied it, who they were addressing, which languages were used, how what is said related to the social venue at the times, how the statements relate to the old testament, and all the other things that enter into scriptural intepretation - not to mention praying to the Holy Spirit first, for guidance, in our understanding. Could you please inform me as to the specific things Joel Osteen has said that you feel are not scriptural, since you tell us, in your own fashion, that you are objecting to the messages from Mr. Osteen, on the grounds they are correct, biblically? Not to doubt you or be the least bit offensive, I have this funny feeling you may not reply, not because you do not see this post, but because the answer is lacking. Perhaps instead of indignation, you'd like to take a position of humility; something Jesus would certainly expect of us, when we have falsely accused others of Christian faith. In your position, I'd especially take a more SINCERE position of "humlity" since it's clearly a ruse you've decided to use, a smoke screen; because if you examine your own writing, your rhethoric isn't really the least bit genuine in that regard; to imply that people here are not followers of scripture, and are "not welcome". It's a judgement of your fellow Christians and that is considered wrong by the very scripture you quote, is divisive, which you claim you aren't. That isn't humility, my Christian brother, it's a diversion from your own error. Twisting scripture and words around to suit yourself and "save face" at the expense of those who rebuke you in love and patience, is truly a tragedy in my book. And backpeddaling that you "aren't attacking personally" but "attacking what he preaches" - my friend they are one in the same. I think you know that, too, and that you'll have to be much less transparent than a big "sigh" in the subject line not to be detected of manipulative behavior here - we're not naive or stupid or easily led. We know our Master's voice, his message - and Joel Osteen has never varied from that once in my experience.

In Christ,
CaliFlower :rose:

 

[ladylane]

Uh,uh, nope. Christ did not die for our God-Shaped Hole. Christ died to satisfy Justice. Our sins are storing up Wrath on the day of Wrath. We are lying to the unsaved as though we are ashamed of the Truth. It is not easy to tell people that yes, they will go to Hell if they do not repent and trust. Instead, we tell them that they will have peace, fullfillment and all this happiness. But they are being lied to. Christ promised only two things: Salvation and Persecution. The world hates Christ. The Bible says the way of Salvation is foolishness to the unsaved. The unsaved get disillusioned when they see that in reality following Christ is exteamely hard. It is self-denying, it is humbling. Diversity isn't the issue. It is what we are telling people. You can be very diverse and different yet still preach the same message. This is called Christian Unity. Why is it that all of you disagree with peaching about sin first then Gospel then about the Judgement to come. In Acts, Paul reasoned with Felix about Judgement, Self Control and Sin. There are not many ways to sharing the Gospel. There is only ONE way. But in sharing it you can be as creative as you can. Let us not preach another Gospel. Mr. Osteen is.

The Gospel is that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son...
When I gave my heart to Jesus it was not in fear of judgement.. IT WAS BECAUSE HE LOVED ME! And gave his life to redeem mine so I can have a love relationship with Almighty God!
Joel may not preach "hell fire and damnation" but the Gospel of the Love of God is crystal clear!
I did not give my heart and life to Jesus so I could have "fire insurance" but so I could have relationship with him by the Holy Spirit, which included love joy peace patience endurance etc. Love when i am shunned and rejected, peace when trials are hard, patience when God says "wait", endurance to out last the enemies attacks.

The unsaved get disillusioned when they see that in reality following Christ is exteamely hard.

I am reminded of Jesus' words..."take my yoke upon you and learn of me for my yoke is easy and my burdens, light"
(and it is through the power of the Holy Spirit)

Trying to live a christian life without the Holy Spirit ... that is not only extreemly hard but indeed foolish! It is living a lie!

Sucat,
Please listen to me here ok? Please consider the "gospel" you have been taught. Could it be possible that you have been disillusioned ? Please seek the Holy Spirit and ask him to Open your eyes to his truth!

 

[Jesuslovesu]

I think this thread has gone on enough.... I am closing the thread.. Chad if I am in error please re-open.. I think this thread is causing more of a division.