Killer at Christian school was “transgender”

[Hekuran]

Plenty of places around the world have managed to implement effective gun policies without becoming socialist. Maybe check Australia's efforts to reduce deaths by firearms.

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

Australia locked up the unvaxxed during COVID. And you think they are not a socialist country?

 

[Hekuran]

Australia locked up the unvaxxed during COVID. And you think they are not a socialist country?

I think you don't know what socialism is.

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

Socialism is Communism light.

 

[Waggles]

Socialism is Communism light.

Yes and no.
Socialism is the theory - and a very broad church in regards to ideologies.
From centre-left trade unionism to the extreme left of redistributing wealth and abolishing economic classes.
Communism is how theory became practice and took on a specific form of government and State ownership of the economy (the old Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea).
Totalitarianism and control of political thought and culture are not exclusively the product of leftwing communism, as rightwing conservative ideologies can also clamp down on free speech and criticisms.

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

Yes and no.
Socialism is the theory - and a very broad church in regards to ideologies.
From centre-left trade unionism to the extreme left of redistributing wealth and abolishing economic classes.
Communism is how theory became practice and took on a specific form of government and State ownership of the economy (the old Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea).
Totalitarianism and control of political thought and culture are not exclusively the product of leftwing communism, as rightwing conservative ideologies can also clamp down on free speech and criticisms.

And where is the evidence to support your theory regarding “ right wing conservative” ideologies? When is the last time that you heard of a conservative right wing group locking people up in a Gulag?

 

[Waggles]

When is the last time that you heard of a conservative right wing group locking people up in a Gulag?

Good grief - you are obviously not a student of history.

 

[Godbehonored]

That’s quite hilarious. As I said, the bad people always manage to get guns. As a matter of fact, a 12-year-old and a 17-year-old just killed three teenagers and there is still a teenage killer at large. Banning guns is not going to do anything but disarm, lawful citizens, and give them nothing to level the playing field if somebody accosts them with a gun or somebody breaks into their house with a gun. When already lawless people know that there is no way for a homeowner or a law, abiding citizen to protect themselves, that will emboldened them even more.

What's hilarious? There are countries that does not allow ANY form of civilian gun rights, yet what you have said here about bad people always managing to get guns even in situations like this don't happen in those countries. So it's really all your imagination and not based on any facts.

 

[Godbehonored]

If there were armed guards, and every school and teachers were allowed to carry, children would have no fear of going to school and being murdered

Has it ever crossed your mind that those teachers or armed guards could also "lost it" and become murderers? Given the proximity, they would probably be the biggest damage dealers with guns compared to an outside murderer.

 

[Godbehonored]

If more guns result in more deaths, then the period between 1994 and 2019 should have seen growing violent crime throughout those decades due to the increase in demand for guns, particularly over the last 20 years, and yet, we don’t. We see the opposite.
I get why “more guns mean more deaths” is a powerful talking point, but it’s wrong. It’s incredibly wrong and any evidence claiming the contrary usually involves ignoring numerous other factors such as economics, education, or pretty much anything else.
Unfortunately, it still works because there’s generally little pushback on it, at least where most people can see it. Reason, for example, is a publication I enjoy reading, but it’s not going to get the same attention that a study saying the opposite would get when published at the New York Times, for example.
And that’s part of the problem. It’s a soundbite, which makes it easy to digest and repeat. However, it’s at best simplistic, but the reality is that the best-case scenario isn’t what’s happening. This isn’t missing context, it’s outright wrong.

Unfortunately, your argument is weak. Just because violent crimes do not rise from 1994 and 2019 does not mean gun ownership is not a risk. It only means at that time mental health is better (if the statistics you mentioned are true), but the risk of gun violence is always there as long as gun rights are in place.

I also posted statistics about top 10 safest countries and top 10 gun ownership countries. There is not even any correlation between owning a gun and more safety in a country.

 

[Godbehonored]

Criminals and murderers can purchase guns illegally, or steal guns from legal gun owners. The majority of gun crimes are done by criminals who get hold of firearms illegally. So making more gun laws does not stop criminals who do not follow the law anyway.

And the liberal left want bigger government oversight, they want more laws and restrictions on personal rights. And the liberal left want to ban all sorts of things, including banning all guns.

So your position is right in line with the liberal left.

Frankly, I have no understanding of what liberalism is. But I do find it alarming that you are trying to label people you don't know on the internet into some political group. I have no interest in politics whatsoever, I'm only interested in stating facts about the risks of gun ownership.

 

[Godbehonored]

And since this is a Christian forum, and people are claiming that self defense with guns is a God-given right, I end my discussion here with what Jesus actually said about protecting oneself with any form of weapon:

Context: Jesus was about to be captured by the people sent by the Pharisees, one of Jesus' disciple called Peter, in an act of self defense, cut off the ear of one of the capturers. Did Jesus approve of the self defense? No.

Matthew 26 Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword..."

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

And since this is a Christian forum, and people are claiming that self defense with guns is a God-given right, I end my discussion here with what Jesus actually said about protecting oneself with any form of weapon:

Context: Jesus was about to be captured by the people sent by the Pharisees, one of Jesus' disciple called Peter, in an act of self defense, cut off the ear of one of the capturers. Did Jesus approve of the self defense? No.

Matthew 26 Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword..."

The Bible gives no all-encompassing statement on self-defense. Some passages seem to speak of God’s people being pacifistic (Proverbs 25:21–22; Matthew 5:39; Romans 12:17). Yet there are other passages that approve of self-defense. Under what circumstances is personal self-defense appropriate?

The proper use of self-defense has to do with wisdom, understanding, and tact. In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells His remaining disciples, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” Jesus knew that now was the time when His followers would be threatened, and He upheld their right to self-defense. Just a short time later, Jesus is arrested, and Peter takes a sword and cuts off someone’s ear. Jesus rebukes Peter for that act (verses 49–51). Why? In his zeal to defend the Lord, Peter was standing in the way of God’s will. Jesus had told His disciples multiple times that He must be arrested, put on trial, and die (e.g., Matthew 17:22–23). In other words, Peter acted unwisely in that situation. We must have wisdom regarding when to fight and when not to.

Exodus 22 gives some clues about God’s attitude toward self-defense: “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed” (Exodus 22:2–3). Two basic principles taught in this text are the right to own private property and the right to defend that property. The full exercise of the right to self-defense, however, depended on the situation. No one should be too quick to use deadly force against another, even someone who means to do him harm. If someone was set upon by a thief in the middle of the night and, in the confusion of the moment the would-be thief was killed, the Law did not charge the homeowner with murder. But, if the thief was caught in the house during the day, when the homeowner was unlikely to be awoken from sleep, then the Law forbade the killing of the thief. Essentially, the Law said that homeowners shouldn’t be quick to kill or attack thieves in their home. Both situations could be considered self-defense, but deadly force was expected to be a last resort, used only in the event of a panicked “surprise attack” scenario where the homeowner is likely to be confused and disoriented. In the case of a nighttime attack, the Law granted the homeowner the benefit of the doubt that, apart from the darkness and confusion of the attack, he would not intentionally use lethal force against a thief. Even in the case of self-defense against a thief, a godly person was expected to try to restrain the assailant rather than immediately resort to killing him.

Paul engaged in self-defense on occasion, although non-violently. When he was about to be flogged by the Romans in Jerusalem, Paul quietly informed the centurion with the scourge that he, Paul, was a Roman citizen. The authorities were immediately alarmed and began to treat Paul differently, knowing they had violated Roman law by even putting him in chains. Paul had used a similar defense in Philippi—after he was flogged—in order to secure an official apology from those who had violated his rights (Acts 16:37–39).

The persistent widow in Jesus’ parable kept pounding on the judge’s door with the repeated plea, “Grant me justice against my adversary” (Luke 18:3). This widow was not about to give up and let her enemy take advantage of her; through the proper channels, she pursued self-defense.

Jesus’ command to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) has to do with our response to personal slights and offenses. Some situations may call for self-defense, but not retaliation in kind. The context of Jesus’ command is His teaching against the idea of “eye for eye, and tooth for tooth” (verse 38). Our self-defense is not a vengeful reaction to an offense. In fact, many offenses can simply be absorbed in forbearance and love.

The Bible never forbids self-defense, and believers are allowed to defend themselves and their families. But the fact that we are permitted to defend ourselves does not necessarily mean we must do so in every situation. Knowing God’s heart through reading His Word and relying on “the wisdom that comes from heaven” (James 3:17) will help us know how to best respond in situations that might call for self-defense.

 

[Godbehonored]

The Bible gives no all-encompassing statement on self-defense. Some passages seem to speak of God’s people being pacifistic ([URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/Prov%2025.21%E2%80%9322']Proverbs 25:21–22[/URL]; [URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/Matt%205.39']Matthew 5:39[/URL]; [URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/Rom%2012.17']Romans 12:17[/URL]). Yet there are other passages that approve of self-defense. Under what circumstances is personal self-defense appropriate?

The proper use of self-defense has to do with wisdom, understanding, and tact. In [URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/Luke%2022.36']Luke 22:36[/URL], Jesus tells His remaining disciples, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” Jesus knew that now was the time when His followers would be threatened, and He upheld their right to self-defense. Just a short time later, Jesus is arrested, and Peter takes a sword and cuts off someone’s ear. Jesus rebukes Peter for that act (verses 49–51). Why? In his zeal to defend the Lord, Peter was standing in the way of God’s will. Jesus had told His disciples multiple times that He must be arrested, put on trial, and die (e.g., [URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/Matt%2017.22%E2%80%9323']Matthew 17:22–23[/URL]). In other words, Peter acted unwisely in that situation. We must have wisdom regarding when to fight and when not to. Exodus 22 gives some clues about God’s attitude toward self-defense: “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed” ([URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/Exod%2022.2%E2%80%933']Exodus 22:2–3[/URL]). Two basic principles taught in this text are the right to own private property and the right to defend that property. The full exercise of the right to self-defense, however, depended on the situation. No one should be too quick to use deadly force against another, even someone who means to do him harm. If someone was set upon by a thief in the middle of the night and, in the confusion of the moment the would-be thief was killed, the Law did not charge the homeowner with murder. But, if the thief was caught in the house during the day, when the homeowner was unlikely to be awoken from sleep, then the Law forbade the killing of the thief. Essentially, the Law said that homeowners shouldn’t be quick to kill or attack thieves in their home. Both situations could be considered self-defense, but deadly force was expected to be a last resort, used only in the event of a panicked “surprise attack” scenario where the homeowner is likely to be confused and disoriented. In the case of a nighttime attack, the Law granted the homeowner the benefit of the doubt that, apart from the darkness and confusion of the attack, he would not intentionally use lethal force against a thief. Even in the case of self-defense against a thief, a godly person was expected to try to restrain the assailant rather than immediately resort to killing him. Paul engaged in self-defense on occasion, although non-violently. When he was about to be flogged by the Romans in Jerusalem, Paul quietly informed the centurion with the scourge that he, Paul, was a Roman citizen. The authorities were immediately alarmed and began to treat Paul differently, knowing they had violated Roman law by even putting him in chains. Paul had used a similar defense in Philippi—after he was flogged—in order to secure an official apology from those who had violated his rights ([URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/Acts%2016.37%E2%80%9339']Acts 16:37–39[/URL]). The persistent widow in Jesus’ parable kept pounding on the judge’s door with the repeated plea, “Grant me justice against my adversary” ([URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/Luke%2018.3']Luke 18:3[/URL]). This widow was not about to give up and let her enemy take advantage of her; through the proper channels, she pursued self-defense. Jesus’ command to “turn the other cheek” ([URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/Matt%205.39']Matthew 5:39[/URL]) has to do with our response to personal slights and offenses. Some situations may call for self-defense, but not retaliation in kind. The context of Jesus’ command is His teaching against the idea of “eye for eye, and tooth for tooth” (verse 38). Our self-defense is not a vengeful reaction to an offense. In fact, many offenses can simply be absorbed in forbearance and love. The Bible never forbids self-defense, and believers are allowed to defend themselves and their families. But the fact that we are permitted to defend ourselves does not necessarily mean we must do so in every situation. Knowing God’s heart through reading His Word and relying on “the wisdom that comes from heaven” ([URL='https://bible.faithlife.com/bible/esv/James%203.17']James 3:17[/URL]) will help us know how to best respond in situations that might call for self-defense.

True, but many people would take self defense to the extreme like Peter did. There is so much emphasis on rights these days that people would gladly ignore the risks that certain rights would give (like gun ownership) or like the LGBT movement people would ignore the harm that comes with it. Everything under the sun (even things against God) can be rationalized as a "right", which is clearly not biblical.

Personally, I rely only on God for protection, its the case with the jab, its no different with gun violence (or violence of any kind). I own no firearm and don't see the need to own one. I am confident God will not allow any gunmen to touch me or my family unless He wants me to be a martyr or have some other purpose for His kingdom (eg. maybe use me to make a murderer come to repentance). If I were to engage in self defense by using a gun to kill the murderer, it may be hindering God's purpose. Death is gain according to Paul, why would we Christians be afraid of death since it is going to come to all humans? Only those who don't have God would fear death to the point they feel the need to fight off violence with a gun.

I believe self defense that is non violent in nature is fine. But I have serious doubts that God allows self defense that is meant/guaranteed to kill. Exodus 22 is set within a context that weapons in those days were less deadly than a gun. It is only by accident that a thief would be killed in those days. If you want to do self defense with a gun, you should at least wound the offender, not use it for the aim of killing.

 

[Hekuran]

And since this is a Christian forum, and people are claiming that self defense with guns is a God-given right, I end my discussion here with what Jesus actually said about protecting oneself with any form of weapon:

Context: Jesus was about to be captured by the people sent by the Pharisees, one of Jesus' disciple called Peter, in an act of self defense, cut off the ear of one of the capturers. Did Jesus approve of the self defense? No.

Matthew 26 Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword..."

Jesus overcame the forces of chaos, violence and death with love and surrendering his own life.

God raised him from the dead and set him glory.

Let's follow Jesus.

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

Happy Resurrection Sunday! He is risen!

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

What Does the Bible Say about Self-Defense?

The Bible does support self-defense. While Christ does denounce retaliation and revenge, He does not prohibit acting in self-defense. Therefore, believers are not sinning when they defend themselves or others from harm and suffering.

www.christianity.com

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

True, but many people would take self defense to the extreme like Peter did. There is so much emphasis on rights these days that people would gladly ignore the risks that certain rights would give (like gun ownership) or like the LGBT movement people would ignore the harm that comes with it. Everything under the sun (even things against God) can be rationalized as a "right", which is clearly not biblical.

Personally, I rely only on God for protection, its the case with the jab, its no different with gun violence (or violence of any kind). I own no firearm and don't see the need to own one. I am confident God will not allow any gunmen to touch me or my family unless He wants me to be a martyr or have some other purpose for His kingdom (eg. maybe use me to make a murderer come to repentance). If I were to engage in self defense by using a gun to kill the murderer, it may be hindering God's purpose. Death is gain according to Paul, why would we Christians be afraid of death since it is going to come to all humans? Only those who don't have God would fear death to the point they feel the need to fight off violence with a gun.

I believe self defense that is non violent in nature is fine. But I have serious doubts that God allows self defense that is meant/guaranteed to kill. Exodus 22 is set within a context that weapons in those days were less deadly than a gun. It is only by accident that a thief would be killed in those days. If you want to do self defense with a gun, you should at least wound the offender, not use it for the aim of

With all due respect, do you have any children? If a man broke into your house, and was raping your child, and you had a firearm, would you stand by and watch? That is my last word on this subject. I believe that the Bible speaks clearly, and I believe that the entire Bible is the inerrant word of God.
Have a wonderful Resurrection Sunday. On my way to church to worship Him and thank him for the fact that I live in a free country where owning a firearm in order to protect oneself or one’s loved ones is still an option.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Frankly, I have no understanding of what liberalism is. But I do find it alarming that you are trying to label people you don't know on the internet into some political group. I have no interest in politics whatsoever, I'm only interested in stating facts about the risks of gun ownership.

I’m not trying to label anyone into a political group. I made note earlier that there seems to be several members here with liberal Left leaning views. One of which is the belief that we should not have guns in our house, or own guns.

That is what you believe and that is also what many on the liberal left also believe. That does not make you a liberal leftist, it just means you hold the same view point on the topic of guns.

I am not left or right, neither have I ever voted. But I do have a view point as do you. Now I may agree with certain view points of conservatives, but that does make me a political activist of the right. And neither does your view on guns make you a political activist of the left.

You have your reasons why you don’t own guns, I have mine. Like I said earlier, I own guns to hunt, so I can eat, that to me is a God given right.

I can respect your decision not to own a gun, hopefully you can respect mine.

No hard feelings, peace and God bless

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Should we now ban axes?

I also personally own an ax to cut up fire wood in order to heat my house in the winter and to also cook with, so I believe I have a right to own an ax.