Mark of the Beast

[SpiritLedEd]

How do we handle disagreement?

I've learned to not respond quickly to message board posts that I may disagree with or not understand.
Sadly, there've been many times in the past when I quickly jumped in with a comment that, at the moment, I thought very clearly and politely stated my thoughts, only to learn in retrospect that I had badly misstated them and angered another person unnecessarily. It is very important for me to think through what I am planning to say before I say it and be willing to do some editing before I click "Submit".
I encourage all who post in this forum to go slowly, proofread your stuff for spelling and grammar errors, and think about how your words sound to the other people involved before you submit your posts.
SLE

 

[4Jesus]

Ok sorry for that... but your interpretation of these prophecies are incorrect preterist or not, according to at least 99% of bible theologians, and is in the same catagory as heresy, as 99% of bible theologians would agree, i also agree. You can't spirtualize the coming Antichrist, you can spirtualize what spirit he's coming in, but not him... or the false prophet. John the baptist came in the spirit of Elijah, but one thing is sure, he came as a man.. also according to prophecy. So did Jesus Christ, and so will the coming man of sin (ie Antichrist)
God bless

My precious brother in Christ,

I am not disagreeing with anything you say. I think the problem is, that either I have not explained myself adequately or you are misreading me, or a bit of both; but I think discussion to seek clarification would have been a preferable course rather than to start shouting "Heretic!" when in fact it just may well be God is revealing and reviving.

Unlike you, I have not read all 100% of what the entirity of Bible Theologians have agreed upon. However, I have lived long enough to have felt and heard Bible Theologians branding the Welsh Revivalists of 1904/5 and the Asuza Street Revivalists of 1906 as heretics. Not to mention the eloquent Bible Theologians of the time who branded the Salvation Army and the Wesleys as heretics. How terribly wrong they were!

I personally do not feel God has commissioned me to brand anyone as a heretic. My commission is to love God, love my neighbour, preach the Good News, baptise and make disciples. Thus, as I have previously said, I really do not wish to get into a theological debate where words like heretic are banded about. A few centuries ago here in England had you and your Bible Theologians levelled Heretic at me I would have been in with a good chance of being despatched to eternity via the Stake or the Block.

Yours in Jesus
David

 

[4Jesus]

Brother Fellowservant

Since posting my last post I have read your post on how to interpret Revelation on another thread. This gives me a better concept of what you believe. However, it appears I/we are prohibited from commenting. Thank you.

I believe a first essential is to understand the structure of the Book of Revelation. Once this is understood we need to understand....
The Symbols
The Pictures of Jesus
The Pictures of the Church
The Problems facing the Church
The Divine Remedies
That Woman Jezebel!
Oppression from Without
The Rewards for overcomers
The Throne of God
The Lamb and the Scroll
The Four Horsemen
The Fifth and Sixth Seals
The Nature of Judgement
The Era of Witness
Overcoming the Beasts
The Final Conflict
The Final Judgements
The Future Calls!

To clear up any ambiguity of any heretical charge I believe the structure of the book is essestial to its interpretation.

Revelation has always been regarded as a difficult book to understand. It has generated so much controversy we are almost scared of it. Without doubt it is different from most of the other books in the Bible but I believe it is not beyond understanding.

Apocalyptic Literature.
The word ' apocalypse' does not mean 'destruction' as in the film, but 'revelation'. Apocalyptic literature reveals or unveils something that is hidden or is not obvious. The only other book that could be considered of this category in the Bible is the book of Daniel.

However, Apocalyptic literature in general was quite common in the time of the New Testament and many examples have survived. Generally they are all written as coded documents by some repressed or injured group against the tyranny under which they were suffering, be it political or religious. The story uses symbols that are well known to the group and tells the story of the wickedness of the oppressors and their ultimate overthrow.

Understanding Apocalyptic Literature.
Maybe it will help if we first of all look at the method I use to understand a scriptural subject with which we are familiar. Let's take the Resurrection.
• The Historic Event. Matthew 28: 5-7.
• The Effect on the Eyewitnesses. Luke 24: 9-11
• The Story Repeated. Acts 2: 22-24; 36-39
• A Doctrine formulated. 1 Corinthians 15: 12-20

Apocalyptic literature works differently.

It begins with a principle, good and evil, light and darkness, etc.
Person or persons, such as an oppressor or deceiver, for example, 'that
woman Jezebel,'

A situation, such as the persecution of the believer, all of which are apparent
in the book of Revelation.
It then addresses the matter by using symbols or word pictures which are
often very graphic and colourful.
It is then up to the reader to apply the word picture to the circumstances in
which he believes that they fit, in the real world, and so gain the blessing or
guidance they are intended to convey. The symbols must be first of all
understood by the readers.

For example it is a principle of the Gospel that Jesus Christ is Lord.
In Philippians 2: 6-11 Paul just says so in plain language.
In Revelation John says the same thing but through word pictures. 5:6-7; 16-17; 22:1-5
• He links it to history as to when it began, 1:18
• What is implied as to what we should do about it now, 5: 11-14
• And what it signifies for the future 11:15.
• And what this will mean when it happens 19:11 -16.



Continued in next post.........

 

[4Jesus]

.........continued from last post

Being Post-Literate.

We as a generation are uniquely gifted to be able, at last, to understand Revelation. For centuries it has been hidden form the brightest minds because they have all thought in terms of words and their meaning. We are no brighter, however, but we live in a generation that is taught once more to react to pictures not words. The instructions that guide us everyday are pictures not words. The key to the book of Revelation is not the words and their meaning but the pictures and their meaning.

Revelation is an integral part of the Bible

Another danger we face in approaching this book is to regard it as separate from the rest of the books of the Bible. It requires 'special treatment.'; It does to some extent as we have seen but in other ways it is a part of the library of scripture. Other Apocalyptic literature stands alone, this book does not. It is part of Divine Revelation. This means that once the codes have been unlocked and the pictures understood, the book is applied in the same way as all the other books of the Bible.

• They are all referring to the same message but in different ways
• They are written for all people of faith. t
• They are relevant to the believer in this age.
• The books are mystically linked one to the other.
• It is an attempt to reveal not to obscure.
• It is an attempt to bring understanding not confusion.
• It is an attempt to place world history around Jesus.
• As much as, for example, Luke's gospel was written to one, Theophilus,' yet we regard it as for us all, so John's letter was written to seven churches but belongs to us all.

• Like the remainder of scripture it contains selective material.
• It must have meant something to the people who first read it.
• It should have meant something to every generation of believers who read it.
• It must mean something to us when we read it.
Revelation deals with matters in six dimensions.
The past, the present, the future, the concurrent, the re-occurring, and the
eternal.

Only the eternal is constant. Some things that were future to John are now
past to us. Even that which is still future will one day become our present and
then our past.

The Concurrent Dimension means simply that when John goes from an
earthly scene to a heavenly one he doesn't necessarily imply that the one
thing happens after the other but that they can be happening at the same
time. For example the opening of the seals in chapter six and seven is clearly
a heavenly event, yet the ramifications of that happen on earth at the same
time. The enthroned Lamb of chapter five remains there throughout the story.
In regard to the re-occurring we can understand, for example, that there has always been a 'beast', always a 'false prophet,' they have merely changed

Continued on next post......[/COLOR]

 

[4Jesus]

........Continued from last post


their outer appearance but they have always been of the same essential
character.

Firstly the Beast was Rome and the False prophet was Emperor worship. But
that passed. Then there came Islam, Atheism, the New Age, Secularism, and
so on. The reformers regarded Catholicism as the false prophet and visa
versa. Today we cast another wary eye at Islam. All had one thing in common
they were against the true God and the true people of God.

Even Jesus is described in different forms but we recognise Him as the same
One in all dimensions. 'Jesus Christ' is introduced to us in chapter one, and
we immediately, and correctly, recognise the man of the Gospels.

But we understand that he is also the alpha and omega, the first and the last,
the wounded Lamb, a great and mighty angel, the rider on the white horse,
and the light of the city. He re-occurs throughout the story in a different word
pictures but we understand that he is the same person.

There has always been a perception of the thousand year reign of Christ and the binding of Satan.
To some generations it was purely spiritual because there was no historical
evidence for it. Satan was at least bound from them as individual believers
and their life was pure.

To others it was only a hope of a better day to come.

When persecution was lifted in the early 4th century and Christianity became
the official religion of Rome, it was seen as the dawning of the Reign of Christ
through His church, and to some extent for a short period, no doubt, it was.
Although each generation can gain meaning from the text it does not detract that in all these things there will be a final and terminal meaning as sure as there was a first and inaugural meaning.

There will be the final Beast, the final false Prophet, the final appearing of Christ, the actual reign of Christ. But while we approach those events with increasing speed the Book of Revelation still places its vistas before us and the text means Something to us now.

This is all so important. We cannot read revelation as belonging only to the past. Neither can we read it as belonging entirely to the future. It cannot be read as a chronological record of the history of this age, neither can it be simply spiritualised into illustrations that can be applied to any situation. The story moves from one dimension to another and the author tells us most of the time exactly in which dimension we are.


Finally it is a Revelation of Jesus Christ.

It is not a revelation of any portion of history, evil, Satan, the tribulation, the millennium, or even heaven. It is a revelation of Jesus Christ. We are meant to know something about Him which is not so obvious and is easily obscured by the chaos of the world in which we are called upon to be witnesses. We are ultimately concerned with what the book tells us about Jesus. If we are side-tracked to some other theme, we have lost the plot and need to return to the main subject.

-------------------------------------

I would welcome a discussion, in love and unity, on the whole book, but it appears the thread you have given your interpretation on is your monopoly on truth - I say that in the kindest way and will readily and humbly seek your forgiveness if that is not so.

Your brother in Him
David

 

[Fellowservant]

........Continued from last post
their outer appearance but they have always been of the same essential
character.
Firstly the Beast was Rome and the False prophet was Emperor worship. But
that passed. Then there came Islam, Atheism, the New Age, Secularism, and
so on. The reformers regarded Catholicism as the false prophet and visa
versa. Today we cast another wary eye at Islam. All had one thing in common
they were against the true God and the true people of God.
Even Jesus is described in different forms but we recognise Him as the same
One in all dimensions. 'Jesus Christ' is introduced to us in chapter one, and
we immediately, and correctly, recognise the man of the Gospels.
But we understand that he is also the alpha and omega, the first and the last,
the wounded Lamb, a great and mighty angel, the rider on the white horse,
and the light of the city. He re-occurs throughout the story in a different word
pictures but we understand that he is the same person.
There has always been a perception of the thousand year reign of Christ and the binding of Satan.
To some generations it was purely spiritual because there was no historical
evidence for it. Satan was at least bound from them as individual believers
and their life was pure.
To others it was only a hope of a better day to come.
When persecution was lifted in the early 4th century and Christianity became
the official religion of Rome, it was seen as the dawning of the Reign of Christ
through His church, and to some extent for a short period, no doubt, it was.
Although each generation can gain meaning from the text it does not detract that in all these things there will be a final and terminal meaning as sure as there was a first and inaugural meaning.
There will be the final Beast, the final false Prophet, the final appearing of Christ, the actual reign of Christ. But while we approach those events with increasing speed the Book of Revelation still places its vistas before us and the text means Something to us now.
This is all so important. We cannot read revelation as belonging only to the past. Neither can we read it as belonging entirely to the future. It cannot be read as a chronological record of the history of this age, neither can it be simply spiritualised into illustrations that can be applied to any situation. The story moves from one dimension to another and the author tells us most of the time exactly in which dimension we are.

Finally it is a Revelation of Jesus Christ.
It is not a revelation of any portion of history, evil, Satan, the tribulation, the millennium, or even heaven. It is a revelation of Jesus Christ. We are meant to know something about Him which is not so obvious and is easily obscured by the chaos of the world in which we are called upon to be witnesses. We are ultimately concerned with what the book tells us about Jesus. If we are side-tracked to some other theme, we have lost the plot and need to return to the main subject.
-------------------------------------
I would welcome a discussion, in love and unity, on the whole book, but it appears the thread you have given your interpretation on is your monopoly on truth - I say that in the kindest way and will readily and humbly seek your forgiveness if that is not so.
Your brother in Him
David

A false prophet is a false prophet, not Emperor worship. And a false teacher is a false teacher, its not that complicated. No i would not rather discuss this with you if you believe that a prophet is not a prophet, according to prophecy or scripture.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Above we see what we see, this will happen according to the word of God, this is not some fifth dimension nonsence, and im not pulling it out of the air. If this already happened with the roman empire, we would have a record of it. Because this is a world wide event, with real people being decieved. Much like your interpretation of these events, they are also decieving. I have no monopoly on Gods word, but the truth of Gods word does...

Eph 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Use Gods word brother, not your own ideas.

 

[4Jesus]

Brother Fellowservant

quote "A false prophet is a false prophet, not Emperor worship. And a false teacher is a false teacher, its not that complicated. No i would not rather discuss this with you if you believe that a prophet is not a prophet, according to prophecy or scripture.unquote


Without going into too much detail here (but will be happy to when more time permits) it is within the context that The New Testament was written in the first century A.D. when Roman paganism and emperor worship threatened The True and Faithful Church and then in the 4th Century, a false church system exploded on the scene in the form of a Romanized, universal Counterfeit church. It is the 'false prophet' who demands emperor worship.

In much the same way the 'false prophet' Mohammed demands the worship of the Moon God.

In Jesus
David

ps Of course I believe a prophet is a prophet both according to scripture and prophecy.

D.

 

[Chad]

Ok sorry for that... but your interpretation of these prophecies are incorrect preterist or not, according to at least 99% of bible theologians, and is in the same catagory as heresy, as 99% of bible theologians would agree, i also agree. You can't spirtualize the coming Antichrist, you can spirtualize what spirit he's coming in, but not him... or the false prophet. John the baptist came in the spirit of Elijah, but one thing is sure, he came as a man.. also according to prophecy. So did Jesus Christ, and so will the coming man of sin (ie Antichrist)


God bless

I think the way you said this is an excellent and simple, straightforward example of the antichrist. Good one brother

 

[Fellowservant]

Finally it is a Revelation of Jesus Christ.

It is not a revelation of any portion of history, evil, Satan, the tribulation, the millennium, or even heaven. It is a revelation of Jesus Christ. We are meant to know something about Him which is not so obvious and is easily obscured by the chaos of the world in which we are called upon to be witnesses. We are ultimately concerned with what the book tells us about Jesus. If we are side-tracked to some other theme, we have lost the plot and need to return to the main subject.
-------------------------------------
David

If you only see a revelation of Jesus Christ in the book of revelation, then you are reading the wrong book brother.

 

[4Jesus]

quote "If you only see a revelation of Jesus Christ in the book of revelation, then you are reading the wrong book brother." unquote

Brother,

I have never said I only see a revelation of Jesus Christ in the Book of Revelation. Nothing could be further from the truth of what I have said.

As for your ascertion I am reading the wrong book - I am reading the Bible, the whole of which is about Jesus and the revelation of Him.

"Then beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He interpreted for them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures." Luke 24:27

You are seriously misquoting me brother. Please let us keep the discussion in the spirit the Bible requires of us.

"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." 1 Peter 3:15.

May you be blessed my brother
David

 

[Fellowservant]

You said and i quote..

It is not a revelation of any portion of history, evil, Satan, the tribulation, the millennium, or even heaven.

Dont go round in circles brother, you said what you said...as far as im concerned you are a false teacher when it comes to the basic teachings of prophecy. So i would sudjest in love, that you stop teaching it. There is disagreement on certain interpertations of prohecy, but yours is in great error brother.

God bless

 

[Fellowservant]

Please let us keep the discussion in the spirit the Bible requires of us.

"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." 1 Peter 3:15.

May you be blessed my brother
David

Satan himself can be tranformed into an angel of light, love without truth or correction is decieving.

2Co 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.


Love is very important, but not if it is going against Gods word. This is my outlook on your errors of basic prophecy. Love tells the truth and it is led by the spirit of truth, not error...so if you want to please God, seek the truth, thats real love. Did you know that Preterist, are regarded as being some of the nicest people in the Christian community? I know we had one here when i first came, and ive read a lot of thier articles. But they teach heresy in the name of God, so love can be decieveing, if it is not of God, or goes against Gods word. Roman Catholic priest are also loving, but they teach false doctrine.. why? because they are decieved. And don't go accuseing me of hatred, i seek to please my neighbour as much as possible, but i don't compremise Gods written word to do it. Im also not calling you Satan, i just used that to give you an example that love is not always real love, there are some false breadren out there, so we as Christians need to be carefull.

God bless

 

[Nigh]

Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus,

Revelation 20:2-3 (KJV)
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Now I don't know about you, but I am pretty sure this hasn't happened yet. As far as I am concerned, this is a promise of God to us, his people. I trust he will not let us down.

He is certainly not "bound" in this present age, for he still "walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" (1 Peter 5:8).

I believe this thousand years to be literal. It is said no less than 5 times in verses 2-7. As if He is pounding it into our heads and shouting it in our ears.
Personally I can't wait for the time when Satan is bound for a thousand years. How great will that time be?!?! Glorious!:shade:

It is clear to me that Satan has never been "bound" for a thousand years either before or after Jesus walked the earth. So if this is chapter 20 of the book of Revelation, what is to be made of the 19 previous chapters? Well they may or may not have happened according you YOUR beliefs or understanding, but has the above 1000 years happened yet in ANYONES interpretation? I'd like to hear commentary proving that! lol
In the remaining 2 chapters, we see the coming of Jesus for His bride, and the new heaven and earth. I figure we would be hard pressed to find anyone who believes this has happened yet. And isn't this what we as followers of Jesus Christ are waiting for? Isn't this our great hope?

It may just be me, but the details concerning the "whens", "wheres", and "hows" of the time to come are far less noteworthy than the coming of our Lord in victory and Glory! My eyes are focused on Jesus alone, not the business that surrounds his coming. In the big picture of things, it will matter not to you or I weather either of us was write or wrong in these details. We will both be too busy praising and worshiping God 24/7 to care one bit.

Go with His Spirit,
Nigh

 

[Fellowservant]

Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus,
Revelation 20:2-3 (KJV)
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Now I don't know about you, but I am pretty sure this hasn't happened yet. As far as I am concerned, this is a promise of God to us, his people. I trust he will not let us down.
He is certainly not "bound" in this present age, for he still "walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" (1 Peter 5:8).
I believe this thousand years to be literal. It is said no less than 5 times in verses 2-7. As if He is pounding it into our heads and shouting it in our ears.
Personally I can't wait for the time when Satan is bound for a thousand years. How great will that time be?!?! Glorious!:shade:
It is clear to me that Satan has never been "bound" for a thousand years either before or after Jesus walked the earth. So if this is chapter 20 of the book of Revelation, what is to be made of the 19 previous chapters? Well they may or may not have happened according you YOUR beliefs or understanding, but has the above 1000 years happened yet in ANYONES interpretation? I'd like to hear commentary proving that! lol
In the remaining 2 chapters, we see the coming of Jesus for His bride, and the new heaven and earth. I figure we would be hard pressed to find anyone who believes this has happened yet. And isn't this what we as followers of Jesus Christ are waiting for? Isn't this our great hope?
It may just be me, but the details concerning the "whens", "wheres", and "hows" of the time to come are far less noteworthy than the coming of our Lord in victory and Glory! My eyes are focused on Jesus alone, not the business that surrounds his coming. In the big picture of things, it will matter not to you or I weather either of us was write or wrong in these details. We will both be too busy praising and worshiping God 24/7 to care one bit.
Go with His Spirit,
Nigh

Good post brother: i see the love for the truth in it, but there are warnings of not to worship the beast and his image as well as other warnings about the things that will happen before Christ returns:star: So i see no reason not to make them important to teach the saints... im sure you will agree:shade:

God bless brother and thanks for your input, as well as brother Chad, its nice to see some support on what is obvious according to prophecy..

Again God bless:shade:

 

[4Jesus]

You said and i quote..
It is not a revelation of any portion of history, evil, Satan, the tribulation, the millennium, or even heaven.
Dont go round in circles brother, you said what you said...as far as im concerned you are a false teacher when it comes to the basic teachings of prophecy. So i would sudjest in love, that you stop teaching it. There is disagreement on certain interpertations of prohecy, but yours is in great error brother.
God bless

My Dear Brother in Jesus.

I truly understand you. You see, I do not believe that your teaching is in great error, neither do I believe mine is in great error. I believe everying you have expounded is true and moreover does not contradict anything that I have said. Everything that I have read of your posts here, I agree with (with the exceptions of your heresy and false teacher judgements).

I realise there appears 'humanly' to be huge contradictions between us; however if we both humble ourselves and have an 'ear to hear' we, I trust we can listen to unity found in The Spirit of God.

Its a little bit like the unspiritual man not understanding the spiritual man. When the unspiritual man comprehends the spiritual he then understands what was contradiction becomes confirmation.

Yours in Jesus
David

 

[4Jesus]

quote "as far as im concerned you are a false teacher when it comes to the basic teachings of prophecy" unquote, Fellowservant.

My brother in Jesus,

Only a couple of days ago you assigned me to Hell as a Heretic. Until you did that I understood that only Jesus had the Divine Authority to make that judgement. I am not sure if you have now judged me as Heretic and False Teacher. Have you judged me both Heretic and False Teacher, or have you dropped the Heretic sentence?

I, like you, examine and discuss prophesy; in my case, in my imperfection, always seeking Holy Spirit guidance. " But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears......Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known"

However, I teach

Jesus Christ is Lord

In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.

God so loved the World He gave His only Son , that whoever believes in Him should not perish but everlasting life.

If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the Dead, your will be saved.

There is power, power, wonder working power in the Precious Blood of the Lamb.

All have sinned have fallen short of Gods glory.

The Bible is the Word of God.

It is by grace we are saved not by works so man should boast.

Christ and Him crucified … not with eloquent words … least the Cross of Jesus lose its power.

I am a sinner save by grace.

With God all things are possible.

…… I could go on and on .….

A False teacher or an imperfect theologian?

Your brother in Him - the greatest being love!
David

 

[Fellowservant]

quote "as far as im concerned you are a false teacher when it comes to the basic teachings of prophecy" unquote, Fellowservant.
My brother in Jesus,
Only a couple of days ago you assigned me to Hell as a Heretic. Until you did that I understood that only Jesus had the Divine Authority to make that judgement. I am not sure if you have now judged me as Heretic and False Teacher. Have you judged me both Heretic and False Teacher, or have you dropped the Heretic sentence?
I, like you, examine and discuss prophesy; in my case, in my imperfection, always seeking Holy Spirit guidance. " But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears......Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known"
However, I teach
Jesus Christ is Lord
In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.
God so loved the World He gave His only Son , that whoever believes in Him should not perish but everlasting life.
If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the Dead, your will be saved.
There is power, power, wonder working power in the Precious Blood of the Lamb.
All have sinned have fallen short of Gods glory.
The Bible is the Word of God.
It is by grace we are saved not by works so man should boast.
Christ and Him crucified … not with eloquent words … least the Cross of Jesus lose its power.
I am a sinner save by grace.
With God all things are possible.
…… I could go on and on .….
A False teacher or an imperfect theologian?
Your brother in Him - the greatest being love!
David

Quote 4Jesus--A False teacher or an imperfect theologian?

Thats up to you brother, if you teach that the antichrist or man of sin is only a spiritual being.. then that is false doctrine. You have been shown that he is more than that with scripture, and the Church would agree (the body of Christ). Its up to you not me, if you want to continue this false teaching. As i said, i would not teach it because it is incorrect according to the Church of God. So its your call brother, as far as being a heretic and useing that word... yes the Church can use it, it has the authority to do so.

Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Heresy, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, is a "theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the Catholic or Orthodox doctrine of the Christian Church, or, by extension, to that of any church, creed, or religious system, considered as orthodox. By extension, heresy is an opinion or doctrine in philosophy, politics, science, art, etc., at variance with those generally accepted as authoritative." The study of heresy is heresiology.



God bless

 

[Fellowservant]

But with all that said, we are told to administer grace to the hearers, if you repent of this teaching, then i believe God will forgive. But we must repent, as ive said before... now that is love.

God bless.. and praying you will change your mind.

 

[4Jesus]

quote "Thats up to you brother, if you teach that the antichrist or man of sin is only a spiritual being.. then that is false doctrine. " unquote fellowservant

Dear Brother Fellowservant,

Ahhh! I now see your problem.

I have not said, and I do not believe that anti-christ is only a spiritual being. I have previously stated clearly I agree with your posts. I have absolutly no problem with anti-christ is a man. It only needs constructive and brotherly discussion without hurling around shouts of heretic, false teacher - repent.

Yours in Him
David

 

[4Jesus]

quote "Heresy, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, is a "theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the Catholic or Orthodox doctrine of the Christian Church, or, by extension, to that of any church, creed, or religious system, considered as orthodox. By extension, heresy is an opinion or doctrine in philosophy, politics, science, art, etc., at variance with those generally accepted as authoritative." The study of heresy is heresiology." unquote Fellowservant

Heretics, is of course what the Othodox and Catholic church leaders charged the likes of John Wesley, William Tyndale, Evan Roberts, Charles Parham, William J. Seymour and John Bunyon with, just to mention a few really true men of God, some of whom, like Tyndale, were burned at the stake as a heretic.

We must be very very careful who we, in percieved self-rightousness, pass judgement of heresy on my brother! History proves it! Those who I have mentioned were judged as heretics by the orthodox and catholic Church but I believe they will receive their Saintly Crowns on that Great and Awesome Morning. They will hear the glorious words, "Well done thou good and faithful servant."

Bless you my brother, in Jesus' precious name.
David