Miss Undertsanding Scriptures "Falling Away"!

[RJ]

:The often miss-understood verse about "falling away" is a stumbling block for so many and for so many reasons! Let's take closer look without adding or deleting anything.
Hebrews 6:4-6:
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I. What actually is impossible? Impossible to do what?
"For it is impossible to renew them again to repentance." Is the writer of Hebrews saying that it is impossible to bring a non-believer unto repentance? What is the Gospel if it is not that a non-believer can become a believer?
II. What or who is falling away here?
"If they shall fall away" No one is "falling away", the writer is using a "if they" hypothetical.. It is a "what if"! Essentially, what he is says is: If you had a once saved believer and then "if" they could "Fall Away" to apostasy, then in order to bring them back to repentance, would require to crucify Jesus all over again! That is obviously not going to happen because Christ died once for all! Scriptures do not say that Jesus will die once, you become saved and then become unsaved and then Jesus dies again in order for you to be brought unto repentance a second time or a third time and so on! There is no such thing as saved / unsaved, saved / unsaved and so on!
III. If it was possible to be once saved and then "fall away" and then be brought back into repentance could mean what?
"they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." It would require Jesus to die on the cross again, and that is not going to happen because he died once and sat down on the right side of God!

 

[ph8th]

Hebrews 6:4-6:
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I. What actually is impossible? Impossible to do what?
"For it is impossible to renew them again to repentance." Is the writer of Hebrews saying that it is impossible to bring a non-believer unto repentance? What is the Gospel if it is not that a non-believer can become a believer?

Just curious.... Can one fall a way if they did not belong to start with? If not, He could not be speaking of a non-believer. I do not want to fight or debate. Just curious.

 

[RJ]

Just curious.... Can one fall a way if they did not belong to start with? If not, He could not be speaking of a non-believer. I do not want to fight or debate. Just curious.

• That is the whole point of those scriptures, how do you "fall away" from a place you have never been?
• The writer of Hebrews was talking to believers about Apostates (the nonbelievers in their congregation), those who rejected Jesus Christ and could not have been saved in the first place.

 

[ph8th]

1 John 2:19 (NASB)

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

II. What or who is falling away here?
"If they shall fall away" No one is "falling away", the writer is using a "if they" hypothetical.

sounds good. Can anyone help me out here with some more Scripture relating to/witnessing to this?
Not questioning you @RJ but sincerely would like to know some more Greek and such like and preferably more Scripture to back this up.
Like I said, (to me at least) it sounds good, but that doesn't give anything any true merit.

Thanks for sharing this,

Bless you ....><>

 

[RJ]

sounds good. Can anyone help me out here with some more Scripture relating to/witnessing to this?
Not questioning you @RJ but sincerely would like to know some more Greek and such like and preferably more Scripture to back this up.
Like I said, (to me at least) it sounds good, but that doesn't give anything any true merit.

One interpretation holds that this passage is written not about Christians but about unbelievers who are convinced of the basic truths of the gospel but who have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior. They are intellectually persuaded but spiritually uncommitted.

According to this interpretation, the phrase “once enlightened” (verse 4) refers to some level of instruction in biblical truth. However, understanding the words of scripture is not the same as being regenerated by the Holy Spirit. For example, John 1:9 describes Jesus, the “true Light,” giving light “to every man”; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. Through God’s sovereign power, every man has enough light to be held responsible. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject such light. The people described in Hebrews 6: 4-6 are of the latter group—unbelievers who have been exposed to God’s redemptive truth and perhaps have made a profession of faith, but have not exercised genuine saving faith.

This interpretation also sees the phrase “tasted the heavenly gift” Hebrews 6:9 as referring to a momentary experience, akin to Jesus’ “tasting” death Hebrews 2:9. This brief experience with the heavenly gift is not seen as equivalent to salvation; rather, it is likened to the second and third soils in Jesus’ parable Matthew 13: 3-23 which describes people who receive the truth of the gospel but are not truly saved.

Finally, this interpretation sees the “falling away” Hebrews 6:6 as a reference to those who have tasted the truth but, not having come all the way to faith, fall away from even the revelation they have been given. The tasting of truth is not enough to keep them from falling away from it. They must come all the way to Christ in complete repentance and faith; otherwise, they in effect re-crucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously. Those who sin against Christ in such a way have no hope of restoration or forgiveness because they reject Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with His enemies. It is impossible to renew such to repentance.

The other interpretation holds that this passage is written about Christians, and that the phrases “partakers of the Holy Ghost,” “enlightened,” and “tasted of the heavenly gift” are all descriptions of true believers.

According to this interpretation, the key word in the passage is if (verse 6). The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: “IF a Christian were to fall away . . .” The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew salvation. That’s because Christ died once for sin Hebrews 9:28, and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all.

The passage, therefore, presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again). The absurdity of the conclusion points up the impossibility of the original assumption. This reasoning is called reductio ad absurdum, in which a premise is disproved by showing that it logically leads to an absurdity.

Both of these interpretations support the security of the believer in Christ. The first interpretation presents unbelievers rejecting Christ and thereby losing their chance of salvation; the second interpretation presents the very idea of believers losing salvation as impossible. Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that salvation is eternal John 10:27-29 , Romans 8:35 , Romans 8: 38-39; Philippians 1:6 ; 1 Peter 1:4-5, and Hebrews 6:4-6 confirms that doctrine.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Try this............
When a believer turns away from God they have a hardened heart from either hurts or unanswered prayers etc.
If you try to bring them back they tend to not want to listen to anything you have to say..........This type of person will need the Holy Spirit to move them or soften their heart unto repentence. What is impossible for man is possible for God.
So praying over them and for them is needed.

 

[WaterRock]

What actually is impossible? Impossible to do what?
"For it is impossible to renew them again to repentance."

Therefore leaving the precepts of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Hebrews 6:1

How many of you were called to repentance because you were sinners? [1 John 3:7]

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29 [Isaiah 42:6]

 

[KingJ]

Greetings,

sounds good. Can anyone help me out here with some more Scripture relating to/witnessing to this?
Not questioning you @RJ but sincerely would like to know some more Greek and such like and preferably more Scripture to back this up.
Like I said, (to me at least) it sounds good, but that doesn't give anything any true merit.

Thanks for sharing this,

Bless you ....><>

Heb 10:29 suggests another option. The sarcasm from Paul in Heb 6 could also point toward there being little to no hope for those Christians that trample on the cross.

There is many scripture that points toward losing salvation. For me, after countless debates I will just say the Achilles heel is that God is not partial. If Jews could have their name blotted out of the Lambs book of life Exo 32:33, so too can we. Partial = evil. God is not evil. There is simply no way around that.

I am not suggesting we need to be nervous in our faith. The example in 1 Timothy 1:19 is shipwreck. A ship is not a speed boat. God does not make mistakes. God reveals Jesus to us 1 Cor 12:3 after examining our hearts and minds Jer 17:10. But because of free will / God choosing to tie His hands / us not being an omnipresent God....we must never be fully confident that we / someone else has made it 1 Cor 10:12. Paul gives us crystal clear instructions to continue to work out our salvation in fear and trembling Phil 2:12.

 

[RJ]

@Wired 4 Fishen

Therefore leaving the precepts of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Hebrews 6:1

How many of you were called to repentance because you were sinners? [1 John 3:7]

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29 [Isaiah 42:6]

Not sure what you are saying here?

 

[Curtis]

When Jesus taught he drew very large crowds that came to hear his Word. They did not come because they believed every thing he said, but because they could "sense" the power of his words. What was happening was they were being made "partakers" of the Holy Spirit. They were tasting the powers and of the of the world to come, and the good Word of God. Every Church that has an anointed preacher experience the exact same thing. Even those who are not saved experience them!! Verse 7-8 of those same scriptures in Heb 6 ties it all together, and summaries what is going on in the previous verses.

Heb 6:7.. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.
Heb 6:8.. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.

The rain of God falls on the just and the unjust for God is no respecter of persons.The rain of the Holy Spirit falls when the Word is preached under the anointing.
The rain is always good, it is never bad. What determines weather a person is blessed or curse is the "seed" that is being watered. If the seed produces "thorns" it is cast into the fire to be burned. If it is good seed it produces blessings from the Lord.
When a sinner is in the presents of God, they are experiencing the power of the Holy Spirit, and tasting all that God uses to draw them to himself. If they refuse there is nothing more God has to cause them to "repent"

 

[WaterRock]

Heb 6:1-3
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Since the premise of the passage was based upon the above, maybe the writer of Hebrews was saying that the believers in Jesus would not have to leave behind the principles of the new covenant as they did the old covenant as they where moved to perfection in Christ by the immutable truth of God.

Speaking of which, who exactly was the writer of Hebrews? Some say it was written by the hand of God himself who had appeared in the flesh that if might be fulfilled that which was written in 1 Tim 3:16-4:1
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@Wired 4 Fishen

Not sure what you are saying here?

Me either brother for you tagged me and quoted WaterRock.....

 

[RJ]

Me either brother for you tagged me and quoted WaterRock.....

!

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Matthew Henry's commentary on the passage in question:


"..Nor does it prove that any one who is made a new creature in Christ, ever becomes a final apostate from him. The apostle is not speaking of the falling away of mere professors, never convinced or influenced by the gospel. Such have nothing to fall away from, but an empty name, or hypocritical profession. Neither is he speaking of partial declinings or backslidings. Nor are such sins meant, as Christians fall into through the strength of temptations, or the power of some worldly or fleshly lust. But the falling away here mentioned, is an open and avowed renouncing of Christ, from enmity of heart against him, his cause, and people, by men approving in their minds the deeds of his murderers, and all this after they have received the knowledge of the truth, and tasted some of its comforts. Of these it is said, that it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance. Not because the blood of Christ is not sufficient to obtain pardon for this sin; but this sin, in its very nature, is opposite to repentance and every thing that leads to it. If those who through mistaken views of this passage, as well as of their own case, fear that there is no mercy for them, would attend to the account given of the nature of this sin, that it is a total and a willing renouncing of Christ, and his cause, and joining with his enemies, it would relieve them from wrong fears. We should ourselves beware, and caution others, of every approach near to a gulf so awful as apostacy; yet in doing this we should keep close to the word of God, and be careful not to wound and terrify the weak, or discourage the fallen and penitent. Believers not only taste of the word of God, but they drink it in. And this fruitful field or garden receives the blessing."

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Once a seed has been planted and received water unto germination it can not be replanted to germinate again.

Bless you ....><>

 

[nickbunch1987]

My Spirit is in full accord with this, God is freely given but you must accept him fully or you reject the gift fully. Jesus said a house divided can't stand, so if you don't stand fully for God then you are standing for something else, and therefore dishonor God and he knows who is for him and though we stumble we stay faithful to his love and trust even in despair. To fall indicates God lifted you in the first place, so standing in God once lifted, by what force could you be shaken and fallen, none for God himself is upholding you with his righteous right hand. May God uplift us all in his loving light, bless you all. Praise Jesus our great Deliverer

 

[Br. Bear]

Yes
PRAISE YE THE LORD

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

:The often miss-understood verse about "falling away" is a stumbling block for so many and for so many reasons! Let's take closer look without adding or deleting anything.
Hebrews 6:4-6:
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I. What actually is impossible? Impossible to do what?
"For it is impossible to renew them again to repentance." Is the writer of Hebrews saying that it is impossible to bring a non-believer unto repentance? What is the Gospel if it is not that a non-believer can become a believer?
II. What or who is falling away here?
"If they shall fall away" No one is "falling away", the writer is using a "if they" hypothetical.. It is a "what if"! Essentially, what he is says is: If you had a once saved believer and then "if" they could "Fall Away" to apostasy, then in order to bring them back to repentance, would require to crucify Jesus all over again! That is obviously not going to happen because Christ died once for all! Scriptures do not say that Jesus will die once, you become saved and then become unsaved and then Jesus dies again in order for you to be brought unto repentance a second time or a third time and so on! There is no such thing as saved / unsaved, saved / unsaved and so on!
III. If it was possible to be once saved and then "fall away" and then be brought back into repentance could mean what?
"they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." It would require Jesus to die on the cross again, and that is not going to happen because he died once and sat down on the right side of God!

Looks like your one of those who doesnt get it either....

it most certainly IS about believers... Heb 6:4 makes it clear they are PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT - non believers do Not partake of the spirit. And this IS REAL BELIEVERS FALLING AWAY... see 2 Peter 2:20 about that falling away after escaping the sins of the world Through a Savior and Lord (only believers) and then fall away....

a dog returns to his own vomit....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Greetings,

Once a seed has been planted and received water unto germination it can not be replanted to germinate again.

Bless you ....><>

Exactly thats why Hebrews 6:1-2 talk about the basics of a new christian.. and that you cant recrucify him and became a new start over believer...