Mother Mary

[mecartz]

Hey Pixie, the Lord bless you. My wife was a born Roman Catholic but now she is born-again. I know your what it is you are talking about. Have you received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet, He will guide you into ALL truth. ANd we are here to answer your questions.

 

[lentz]

Worshipping and praying to Mary and other dead people is total idolatry. Satanic even

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Blessed Virgin Mary: Primary Doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church

ALL of which are pure horse manure.

Mary was a normal, and obedient Jewish Gal, who was selected for a demanding ministry by God. She and her husband Joseph carried it out successfully. ANd That's IT!!!

Mary didn't really have a CLUE about the entirety of Jesus (and thought at one point that He'd gone insane, and tried to get him out of the public eye - Mark 3:21 - 3:31-35). Mary (the real one) was probably given by Jesus to John to get her away from her largely unbelieving family so that she could be Born Again.

The Roman Catholic "Mary thing" bears no resemblance whatsoever to the REAL Mary, Jesus' human mother. She (it) is probably a re-purposing of the pagan goddess Diana.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Why didn't Jesus come to earth earlier than He did?Why not. say, at the beginning of the Roman Empire or somewhere around the time of Nebuchadnezer and the Babylonian Empire? Or why not later?

It is my theory that the timing of Jesus' coming to earth depended (at least in large part) on the availability of a suitable mother and that the Mary of Scripture was that mother. I believe that, though she was human, she was sinless, or as near to being sinless as a human being could ever be, qualified to give birth to the God-man, Jesus.

Thus she does hold a position of honor and she deserves it. But, there is an enormous difference between honoring someone and worshipping them. And it would appear that the Catholic Church has crossed the line into worshipping Mary.

SLE

If Mary was sinless as you say, why did she need a savior? Luke 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God, my Savior, Mary did need a savior...ergo...she was not sinless, just obeient and willing to serve

 

[Bill]

I agree with jiggy. GOD made it clear that ALL have fallen short the grace of GOD.

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

What of the idea that Joseph was married before and having children with another. It is not in the scripture, but it would explain a lot?

 

[Bill]

"Remember, Jesus never wrote any book, available to us. "
"At the time of early councils- Nicea, Constantinopolis, Ephasus etc, the attendees- spiritual fathers compiled the books. "

First of all the Holy Spirit is the Author.

"But, I see some amount of discipline in this Apostolic Church. So are Orthodox, Coptic etc"

Who cares? I go by the Holy Bible alone, the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Author Himself. I do not need man's discipline, "doctrine", etc.

"If you refer the original Greek or Syriac versions and compare with the current KJV or other comtemporary versions, you will be shocked to see the differences. "

Show us the difference. I know converting 2000yr old Greek/Hebrew to modern day English will have its fair difference, don't you? Does that mean the Bible is any less than it was? I think not. Neither does GOD think so.

If we do not need the traditions, why does Paul tell us that we do, in the very scripture you are studying

 

[Bill]

If Mary was sinless as you say, why did she need a savior? Luke 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God, my Savior, Mary did need a savior...ergo...she was not sinless, just obeient and willing to serve

That is a good point. "My spirit rejoices in God my savior"

 

[Bill]

I cannot seem to comprehend why people are in love with the "catholic" doctrine or so fond of Mary. She was beautiful woman at heart indeed and a BELIEVER IN CHRIST. Otherwise, GOD would not have chosen an unbeliever. She was NEVER mentioned to be sinless and never mentioned to be other than what everyone else is, a HUMAN in need of a SAVIOR (whom she carried to *FULFILL PROPHECY*) according to the Father's will.

Something i tried to bring up a few times. Joseph could never be able to "coupulate" with Mary. ( i think it is the right word, - to consumate the marriage) because of the Laws of Moses. Many people seriously Overlook little laws in the Jewish customs. We completely forget about it, that the proof of God's blessing of the Union is the child.

You remember how Joseph reacted once he found Mary was pregnant. He wanted to secretly divorce her, as Joseph was a man of the law.

Now he was instructed to continue being the husband of Mary, but he could never consummate the marriage without committing adultery.

Now it had never occurred to me about the concept that Joseph was married before coming to Mary. It was actually brought up by one of the people here at Talk Jesus.
And I think there would be strong evidence for that concept, with the fact that Joseph was so much older than Mary in the first place.

 

[Bill]

Holy spirit is NOT the author. It was written by human beings, in their language which you and me should understand till the end of times. Of course the Holy spirit has prompted them and was dwelling within them while carrying out this holy work.

If you want to see the difference between the original scriptures and what we have now, at least refer the Vulgate and Peshitha, that should be available in your nearest Church libraries. Do a fair translation with the available tools. And then, you too will be shocked like me and many other.

Sunny.

I would fully disagree if you are thinking only humans could write and put together the Bible as it was compiled and set in its order.

At least in this, i will stand with Chad ( i am sure Chad fell off his seat to hear me say that) . The Scripute was indeed Inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bill]

I cannot seem to comprehend why people are in love with the "catholic" doctrine or so fond of Mary. She was beautiful woman at heart indeed and a BELIEVER IN CHRIST. Otherwise, GOD would not have chosen an unbeliever. She was NEVER mentioned to be sinless and never mentioned to be other than what everyone else is, a HUMAN in need of a SAVIOR (whom she carried to *FULFILL PROPHECY*) according to the Father's will.

Maybe the catholics are just following Scripture.

You and i both know that Jesus is both the author as well as the one that orchestrated the order of the books.

Jesus wrote it, and shows the Holy Spirit speaking through Elizabeth " now as soon as Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the child left in her womb and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy spirit. She gave a loud cry and said, of all women you are the most blessed, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. Why should I be honored with the visit from the mother of my Lord? For the moment your greeting reached my ears, the child and my womb left for joy."

So the Holy Spirit is acknowledging to Mary, that she is the most blessed of all women. The Holy Spirit is also acknowledging that she is the mother of Our Lord.

Now again, we understand that the scripture is written by Jesus. Not written by man. But written by Jesus, and orchestrated by Jesus.

So in the scripture, which is the word of Jesus, we have Mary stating this " from this day forward all Generations will call me blessed".

There are some translations that state, " from this day forward all nations will call me blessed"

In either case, it is still the word of Jesus. Even though it is a quotation of Mary.

This is why the Catholics honor Mary the way they do. This is why the Catholics love Mary the way they do. Because they love her because she said yes to God.

 

[Dave M]

Maybe the catholics are just following Scripture.

You and i both know that Jesus is both the author as well as the one that orchestrated the order of the books.

Jesus wrote it, and shows the Holy Spirit speaking through Elizabeth " now as soon as Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the child left in her womb and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy spirit. She gave a loud cry and said, of all women you are the most blessed, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. Why should I be honored with the visit from the mother of my Lord? For the moment your greeting reached my ears, the child and my womb left for joy."

So the Holy Spirit is acknowledging to Mary, that she is the most blessed of all women. The Holy Spirit is also acknowledging that she is the mother of Our Lord.

Now again, we understand that the scripture is written by Jesus. Not written by man. But written by Jesus, and orchestrated by Jesus.

So in the scripture, which is the word of Jesus, we have Mary stating this " from this day forward all Generations will call me blessed".

There are some translations that state, " from this day forward all nations will call me blessed"

In either case, it is still the word of Jesus. Even though it is a quotation of Mary.

This is why the Catholics honor Mary the way they do. This is why the Catholics love Mary the way they do. Because they love her because she said yes to God.

they call her the mother of God, is there really anything else that needs to be said about it?

 

[Bill]

they call her the mother of God, is there really anything else that needs to be said about it?

Jesus called her His mother. Is Jesus God? Yes or no?

 

[Samson2020]

Jesus called her His mother. Is Jesus God? Yes or no?

No He is the Son of God.
My Father is greater than I
The Father hath given me life
The God and Father of our Lord Jesus. Paul and Peter.
The God of our Lord Jesus.
Ephesians 1 :3 Eph 5:20
2 Co 11:31 2 Co 1:3
1 Pe 1:3

I find it hard to swallow to call Jesus God as neither Paul nor Peter acknowledged Him as God but rather as our Lord while also acknowledging that God the Father was the GOD and FATHER of Jesus.
And Jesus is quoted as saying thou shalt love the Lord thy God With all you are and honor the Son.
The square peg of the Trinity doesn’t fit the round hole of the actual truth.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Jesus called her His mother. Is Jesus God? Yes or no?

Mary may be the mother of Jesus the man, but she is not the mother of God. Unless there is a miracle the bible does not speak of? That would be the son existing long long before the mother was born?

 

[Samson2020]

Mary may be the mother of Jesus the man, but she is not the mother of God. Unless there is a miracle the bible does not speak of? That would be the son existing long long before the mother was born?

Very good point.
There is a very large misunderstanding of what Jesus was and who Jesus became. He is the PATTERN Son by which all other sons are to be made.
Firstly Jesus was a man. The intro in Matthew goes through the 42 generations of Jesus who is called Christ. Problem here is that Jesus is listed as
the 41st generation. He became Jesus the Christ when He was baptized in the Spirit at Jordan. He said a MAN must be born of water (human birth)
and the Spirit (HG) in order to see the kingdom of God. Jesus was a man and underwent both births. Acts 2:22 It was after His baptism that the heavens
were opened to Him. Matt 3:16 Just like any other man except He got the full measure of the Spirit.
After He was birthed in the Spirit He was then perfected by the things He suffered and became a life giving Spirit Himself by Gods design. 1 Co 15:45
Thus He is a God in the sense He is able to give life just as His Father but He could not do that prior to being perfected and glorified. John 5:26
We are to receive this same life from Him, full measure of the Spirit, also by Gods design, thus all things reconciled back to the Father through Christ.
Point is no woman can make a life giving Spirit, they can only produce the MAN. Kind after kind. So yes she is the mother of the man, but could never be
the maker of the Christ. Thus not the mother of a God. But the mother of a man who was made a God. The Beginning of the creation of God. Rev 3:14
Heb 1:8 Notice it is God speaking to the Son calling Him God. 9-Therefore GOD thy God hath
anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Jesus is seen as a God simply because He can no longer die and has all power in heaven and earth, and is the key to your own life eternal by giving
the baptism in the spirit for/to you.
Like all things Satan the deception is very close to the reality but is still a lie. And obviously the lie continues to get bigger and bigger when we do not
seek out the actual Biblical truth.
It is harder to unlearn the lie. that most believe and are taught in the organized religion of Christianity today, than initially learn the truth from the HG.

 

[Bill]

You guys are silly. Of course Mary is not "God", only the mother of Jesus.

But "You" keep overlooking some facts, The scripture itself comes to us through Jesus. It was in Jesus's own words that he referred to her as mother. Not only is it in his own words but the fact is that it is in the scripture which is also the word of Jesus. And it is also through the Holy Spirit via Elizabeth that makes the statement that the "mother of my Lord".

So you're not only arguing with Jesus on the whole matter but you're also arguing with the Holy Spirit. LOL neither of them referred to Mary as God. Only that she was the mother of Our Lord.

This whole business about not wanting to recognize Mary as the mother of Our Lord, or recognizing that she is the most blessed of all women, this is on you guys. Has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. But you only blame the Catholic church for everything, what was written in scripture happened well before the Catholic church ever came along

 

[Samson2020]

You guys are silly. Of course Mary is not "God", only the mother of Jesus.

But "You" keep overlooking some facts, The scripture itself comes to us through Jesus. It was in Jesus's own words that he referred to her as mother. Not only is it in his own words but the fact is that it is in the scripture which is also the word of Jesus. And it is also through the Holy Spirit via Elizabeth that makes the statement that the "mother of my Lord".

So you're not only arguing with Jesus on the whole matter but you're also arguing with the Holy Spirit. LOL neither of them referred to Mary as God. Only that she was the mother of Our Lord.

This whole business about not wanting to recognize Mary as the mother of Our Lord, or recognizing that she is the most blessed of all women, this is on you guys. Has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. But you only blame the Catholic church for everything, what was written in scripture happened well before the Catholic church ever came along

She is the mother of our Lord, not our God, in the flesh. Not the Spirit.
I’m not blaming the Catholics here just saying organized Christianity of which they are obviously a part of.
I would have to agree that she is the most blessed of all women in that the God and Father of our Lord Jesus formed His body in her womb.
Thou hast prepared a body for me.
But blessed does not make her more than blessed.

 

[B-A-C]

Of course Mary is not "God", only the mother of Jesus.

Has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

.. and yet, the Roman Catholics call her the mother of God.

Catholic Prayers

Prayers for those who practice the faith of the Roman Catholic Church.

www.xavier.edu

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.

Of course they also ask her to pray for them, as if she is a mediator. The inference, is that somehow Mary created God. God couldn't exist without her.
Of course Mary herself is a created being.

 

[Bill]

.. and yet, the Roman Catholics call her the mother of God.

Catholic Prayers

Prayers for those who practice the faith of the Roman Catholic Church.

www.xavier.edu

Of course they also ask her to pray for them, as if she is a mediator. The inference, is that somehow Mary created God. God couldn't exist without her.
Of course Mary herself is a created being.

What part of this is a false statement " Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you, blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus." " Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now until the hour of our death"

Doesn't scripture tell us, that if a person dies in Christ that they are not dead but alive? Would you say that those in heaven are dead or are they alive? If they are dead then we should not talk to them and Jesus would be a hypocrite for talking to Elijah and Moses. But if they are alive then we are hypocrites if we cannot even think about talking to them because they are alive not dead but alive.

Mary is alive in heaven, and I talked to her and I asked her to pray for me. What part of that is not scriptural?

If you deny that a person who dies in Christ is not alive then I say that you are a hypocrite.

 

[Bill]

She is the mother of our Lord, not our God, in the flesh. Not the Spirit.
I’m not blaming the Catholics here just saying organized Christianity of which they are obviously a part of.
I would have to agree that she is the most blessed of all women in that the God and Father of our Lord Jesus formed His body in her womb.
Thou hast prepared a body for me.
But blessed does not make her more than blessed.

You as well, a hypocrite. How can a person accept Jesus as Lord and not think of him as God that is just ridiculous.

Maybe it's in your religion, in your mind that Jesus is not God and I say why don't you just tell us right here right now if you believe that Jesus is God or not.