Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots

Eric E Stahl · Jun 10, 2013

New Legacy · Jan 2, 2014

Babylon refers to the Roman Imperial cult.

In the minds of Jews, Babylon represents the great oppressor of the Jews who took them captive. The prophets at warned the Jewish people about what was to come, but also gave them hope that one day things would be made right.

Roman was about to begin the next great persecution which is why 'Babylon' is used. Babylon refers to something that is long gone, not something that will come about in the future.

Although, in a sense, history is full of Babylon's - nations that oppress God's people.

Eric E Stahl · Jan 4, 2014

New Legacy said:
Babylon refers to the Roman Imperial cult.

In the minds of Jews, Babylon represents the great oppressor of the Jews who took them captive. The prophets at warned the Jewish people about what was to come, but also gave them hope that one day things would be made right.

Roman was about to begin the next great persecution which is why 'Babylon' is used. Babylon refers to something that is long gone, not something that will come about in the future.

Although, in a sense, history is full of Babylon's - nations that oppress God's people.

The roman church will be part of the ecumenical Christian church.

New Legacy · Jan 4, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
The roman church will be part of the ecumenical Christian church.

You mean the Catholic Church? I seriously doubt that. Only in the conspiracy end times black helicopters bigfoot antiChrist view I suppose.

Eric E Stahl · Jan 4, 2014

New Legacy said:
You mean the Catholic Church? I seriously doubt that. Only in the conspiracy end times black helicopters bigfoot antiChrist view I suppose.

God will send strong delusion to the people that heard the gospel and rejected Jesus. The Christian churches had the bible and the best chance to read the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-11
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

eddieb · Jan 5, 2014

in prophesy a woman represents a church. the beast the woman sits on is the countries... the horns.... the number of regions... ten. mystery babylon is a spiritual babylon. its roots of the teachings of it go back to the gods of babylon. this mystery babylon is already at work in countries and regions all around the world.

New Legacy · Jan 5, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
God will send strong delusion to the people that heard the gospel and rejected Jesus. The Christian churches had the bible and the best chance to read the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-11
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I am not following your argument.

New Legacy · Jan 5, 2014

eddieb said:
in prophesy a woman represents a church. the beast the woman sits on is the countries... the horns.... the number of regions... ten. mystery babylon is a spiritual babylon. its roots of the teachings of it go back to the gods of babylon. this mystery babylon is already at work in countries and regions all around the world.

Where in the bible does a beast sit upon a woman?

james1523 · Jan 6, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
The roman church will be part of the ecumenical Christian church.

The spirit of Rome is within every denomination which seeks to dominate over the lives of Christians. The main features of such an organization is to have a central power base (e.g. Rome), to extend its influence to other cities in the world (i.e. setup presence, a ROMAN church in other cities which are decidedly NOT Roman). To dominate means for one church to extend influence over a church in a different city. Originally all the churches were autonomous, and gradually the more powerful ones took over the weaker ones, and thus the Roman Catholic church was born. The same thing happens in other denominations, for example in pentecostal denominations, the 'mother church', bigger or more successful church, may take over the smaller less successful ones (where success is primarily measured by number of attendees and financial position).

Eric E Stahl · Jan 6, 2014

eddieb said:
in prophesy a woman represents a church. the beast the woman sits on is the countries... the horns.... the number of regions... ten. mystery babylon is a spiritual babylon. its roots of the teachings of it go back to the gods of babylon. this mystery babylon is already at work in countries and regions all around the world.

As a Harlot takes the rightful place of a wife, Harlot Babylon will take the place of the true Christian church. Yes the parts of harlot Babylon are in the world today but they will combine into an ecumenical church in the tribulation after the true church is taken to heaven.

New Legacy · Jan 7, 2014

james1523 said:
The spirit of Rome is within every denomination which seeks to dominate over the lives of Christians. The main features of such an organization is to have a central power base (e.g. Rome), to extend its influence to other cities in the world (i.e. setup presence, a ROMAN church in other cities which are decidedly NOT Roman). To dominate means for one church to extend influence over a church in a different city. Originally all the churches were autonomous, and gradually the more powerful ones took over the weaker ones, and thus the Roman Catholic church was born. The same thing happens in other denominations, for example in pentecostal denominations, the 'mother church', bigger or more successful church, may take over the smaller less successful ones (where success is primarily measured by number of attendees and financial position).

What is your evidence that all Church were autonomous? In what year do you believe the church at Rome began expanding its influence?

How do you explain the many ecumenical councils in which leaders from all churches came together in one place to discuss issues?

New Legacy · Jan 7, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
As a Harlot takes the rightful place of a wife, Harlot Babylon will take the place of the true Christian church. Yes the parts of harlot Babylon are in the world today but they will combine into an ecumenical church in the tribulation after the true church is taken to heaven.

The true Church isn't ecumenical, it is divisive?

You can identify Christ's Church by division, not by unity?

Eric E Stahl · Jan 7, 2014

New Legacy said:
The true Church isn't ecumenical, it is divisive?

You can identify Christ's Church by division, not by unity?

You are correct. The apostate christian churchs will not form the ecumenical church till they are rid of the divisive Christians after the rapture.

eddieb · Jan 7, 2014

New Legacy said:
Where in the bible does a beast sit upon a woman?

i didnt say a beast on a woman, i said a woman on a beast... well exactly what i said was: "the beast the woman sits on." perhaps i should have put the word "that" after beast. sorry for any confusion. the scripture i was refering to is below:

17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ***** that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

as for what Eric E Stahl said i am curious as to what you are talking about the great ***** taking the place of the church after the church is taken to heaven. could you please provide some scripture refrence please? what i was speaking of would be prior to that. or perhaps i interpret it differently, not sure. however, I am very interested in what you are talking about.

Eric E Stahl · Jan 7, 2014

Eddieb,

<style>  </style> Eddieb,

Revelation 13:1-4
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The 10 kings are a confederation of nations. The 7 mountains on the beast is Rome and the blasphemy is the apostate ecumenical Christian church which rides and controls the beast. Daniel's 11th horn will come from the same linage as the ten kings (Western Powers which are Christian nations)but will lead a colony of the ten kingdoms. (USA)

Why do I believe this is true?

2 Thessalonians 2:6-12
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

America will believe the lie of the antichrist because she didn’t believe the truth of the gospel and God will judge it. All the formerly Christian nations will also be caused by God to believe the lie of the antichrist.

eddieb · Jan 7, 2014

Eric E Stahl yeah bro i dig it, but i dont see where it says the great ***** will take the place of the church once the church is taken to heaven. i mean is it one of those things where if it was a snake it would have bit me.... and i just aint seeing it? I do thank you tho.
after giving it some more thought are you pre-trib? or mid? I lean more to the post trib view which is maybe why i aint picking up what you are putting down. which is fine, I dont want to start a big debate here. God is still on the throne.

DHC · Jan 8, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
The 10 kings are a confederation of nations. The 7 mountains on the beast is Rome and the blasphemy is the apostate ecumenical Christian church which rides and controls the beast. Daniel's 11th horn will come from the same linage as the ten kings (Western Powers which are Christian nations)but will lead a colony of the ten kingdoms. (USA)

Hello Eric.

I must say that you are very creative with your interpretation of the scripture.

If you do not mind me asking, how do you support the idea that that the harlot
controls the beast?

Revelations 17:3
...and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast...

The scripture states that the woman is only sitting on the beast, the scripture
does not say that the woman controls the beast.

james1523 · Jan 8, 2014

New Legacy said:
What is your evidence that all Church were autonomous? In what year do you believe the church at Rome began expanding its influence?

How do you explain the many ecumenical councils in which leaders from all churches came together in one place to discuss issues?

On the negative side, we can easily see in the Scripture that no where it refers to a "church of Rome in Jerusalem", or "church of Rome in Ephesus". It is always "church in Jerusalem", or "church in Ephesus". Indicating that no particular Bishop of another region had authority over a different region. On the positive side, scriptural evidence for autonomy is that In Revelation Jesus speaks a specific message for each of 7 churches as if they were autonomous bodies, and each church has its own lampstand. He does not address a single "mother church" in Jerusalem, Rome or anywhere else. Also, the apostles appointed elders in every church and every city had its own elders (Acts 14:23, Titus 1:5, Acts 15:4, Acts 20:7, Phil 1:1). This doesn't mean the churches acted independently of each other, or did everything in isolation. But the authority and governance of each church rested with the elders of that particular church and no church of a different city. We note that this was prior to the existence of denominations, which is another topic of discussion, and so "church" and "city" go hand in hand - churches were defined by locality and not by method, founder, doctrine, creed or practice (as in the case of denominations). Thus, the Roman Catholic Church is not a denomination, although it is a man-made organization with a centralized authority structure which is foreign to the teaching of Scripture and practice of the early church. Similarly, the Anglican church, or church of England, has violated the scriptural principle of one autonomous church per city, by declaring that there can be a "church of England, in such and such a place". And just as the Roman Catholic church is the religious extension of the Roman Empire, so too is the church of England the religious extension of the British Empire. This idea is foreign to the Scripture.The true church is not "of" a place, doctrine,creed, tradition or practice, but of the person of Jesus Christ alone, as it is referred to as the "Body of Christ". Given that the true church has no national or cultural identity apart from Jesus Christ, it cannot be a true church if it claims any other identity. Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.".

So we can say with a high degree of certainty, that the moment a church claims to be "of" something or someone other than Jesus Christ, it is really not of Jesus Christ, and therefore not His true church.

An organization of centralized power and authority (as in the Roman Catholic church) did not come into existence until later and caused by a number of political and religious circumstances. The year when Rome began expanding its influence was the year when it was declared that the Bishop of Rome has the sole legitimate claim to Petrine authority. As this idea of the Roman church having influence over the other churches is completely foreign to the Bible, it must have been not long after the New Testament was completed.

Regarding councils, I suppose the fact that there were councils necessary, is evidence itself of the autonomous nature of the individual churches. Nonetheless, the councils were called together by the Christian Roman Emperors, who enforced the decisions of those councils with the state church of the Roman Empire. Hence the councils themselves were a mechanism by which the Roman Empire could control the religious affairs of all the regions. Not recognizing Roman papal authority was a clear mark of differentiation between the Orthodox Churches, who largely maintained the original autonomous nature of the churches, being several self-governing ecclesial bodies.

So the churches which think themselves to be churches but which are not, will comprise the "Babel" in the sense of mankind building a manmade structure in order to exalt himself to the sky, to reach heaven, as it were. And the "Babylon", in the sense of being a mixture of having spiritual appearance yet being worldly in nature. Hence we get the number 666 which indicates the man-made false trinity, rather than 777 which symbolizes the perfect Trinity. The number 6 and number 7 are different by only 1, indicating that the man made religions try to get close to God but never quite get there. All religions are man made attempts to reach a God far away in the heavens. But true Christianity is about finding life, by eating and drinking the body and blood of the Saviour who became close, available and reachable to us all, especially to those who humble themselves like a child. Matt 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. John 6:53 " "Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you don't have life in yourselves.". Religions are about how you behave, what you do, or don't do, but Christianity is about what and how you eat and drink.

Eric E Stahl · Jan 8, 2014

DHC said:
Hello Eric.

I must say that you are very creative with your interpretation of the scripture.

If you do not mind me asking, how do you support the idea that that the harlot
controls the beast?

Revelations 17:3
...and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast...

The scripture states that the woman is only sitting on the beast, the scripture
does not say that the woman controls the beast.

Revelation 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The city will be Rome where blasphemy (the apostate church) resides and rules over the kings.

Revelation 17:16-18
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Eric E Stahl · Jan 8, 2014

eddieb said:
Eric E Stahl yeah bro i dig it, but i dont see where it says the great ***** will take the place of the church once the church is taken to heaven. i mean is it one of those things where if it was a snake it would have bit me.... and i just aint seeing it? I do thank you tho.
after giving it some more thought are you pre-trib? or mid? I lean more to the post trib view which is maybe why i aint picking up what you are putting down. which is fine, I dont want to start a big debate here. God is still on the throne.

The Five Phases of the First Resurrection

(1) Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven at His ascension. Ephesians 4:8

(2) The Holy Spirit and the church age saints are caught up to heaven before the antichrist Is given power in the Christian nations. 2Thessalonians 2:3-12

(3) The mid tribulation catching up will include the two witnesses Revelation 11:3,7-14, the 144,000 sealed Jews from Revelation chapter 7 who where redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:1-4, and the redeemed dead saints from the first half of the Tribulation. See Revelation 15:1-4

(4) The dead saints from the last half of the tribulation are redeemed from the earth after the tribulation. Revelation 20:4

(5) The dead saints from the Kingdom age will be judged at the great white throne judgment along with the second resurrection sinners. Revelation 20:11-15

Ephesians 4:8-10
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

I believe these verses indicate that Jesus took the Old Testament saints to heaven when he went back.

What is your opinion?

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Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots

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