amadeus2
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2008
- Messages
- 4,456
Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts [the first one was a lion... see 4:7] and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
I have asked God for help on this as it seems so important to so many of us. I thought I was on the other side, but I really wanted to be on God's side as, I believe, we all do. I believe our problem, with the exception of sister Lanolin, has been verse 5:5 and the words translated in the KJV as "hath prevailed". Considering the words I highlighted in blue in the verses it is certain that the one who did take and open the seals was the Lamb of God.
Verse 5 might support the Lamb of God as being equal to the Lion of Judah, but as Lanolin has asked: where is more support for that case in scripture if that is really the case? The scripture shows in many places that lions are killers and have needed to have their mouths stopped to prevent them from doing the damage that they would do.
So then why would God use a lion to open the seals of the Book? In chapters 6 we see that it is indeed the Lamb that opens seals one through six. In chapter 8 the Lamb opens also the seventh and final seal.
If the Lion of Judah is not the Lamb of God, who or what is that lion? Is it perhaps as Lanolin has suggested the carnal leadership of Judah, God's chosen people, which failed repeatedly? They were chosen, but the adults saved out of Egypt failed to make it into the Promised Land. When their descendents were finally in the Promised Land they failed to completely destroy the inhabitants of Canaanland as God had told them to do. Just as important they failed to keep themselves separate from those inhabitants and evil ways of those inhabitants.
My Reina Valera [1569, 1602, 1960] Bible translation of Rev 5:5 expresses it a little differently. I translate it back into English this way:
"One of the elders saith unto me: Weep not. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered in order to open the book and to loose the seven seals."
I then consider that the Lion of Judah [the power of the Jews as represented by the Moses, Joshua and kings on the throne] attempted without success to accomplish God's purpose. He [the literal or carnal people of Israel] did conquer the land and killed many of the inhabitants, but they never finished the work. That is, both carnally and spiritually they failed. It is written:
"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1
God called the natural children of Jacob [Israel, Jews] out of Egypt, but He also called Jesus out of Egypt.
"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matt 2:14-15
Both the type or shadow [natural children of Israel] and the reality [Jesus] were called out of Egypt. The type or shadow son of God [Jacob, Israel, Judah] came up short in the wilderness. Jesus, the real Son of God did not:
"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." Matt 4:1
" But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt 4:4
"Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:7
"Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Matt 4:10
The Jews wanted their Messsiah to be the Lion of Judah and at times some pressed for Jesus to be that to fight against the Romans, but consider the prophecy:
"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." Gen 49:10
And what is Shiloh? Shiloh according Strong's is an epithet for the Messiah meaning "tranquil". A sceptre is the symbol of a king's power and authority. The power and authority in men for God was with the Jews until the real Messiah arrived and signaled the departure of the sceptre out of Judah where it had been, not with an army of soldiers nor even the natural force of a lion, but with the tranquility of the Lamb of God.
"Unto him shall the gathering of the people be". Which people? The ones who have chosen God because He called them.
Likely there many pieces missing and some errors in this patchwork quilt, but... there it is for your consideration.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts [the first one was a lion... see 4:7] and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
I have asked God for help on this as it seems so important to so many of us. I thought I was on the other side, but I really wanted to be on God's side as, I believe, we all do. I believe our problem, with the exception of sister Lanolin, has been verse 5:5 and the words translated in the KJV as "hath prevailed". Considering the words I highlighted in blue in the verses it is certain that the one who did take and open the seals was the Lamb of God.
Verse 5 might support the Lamb of God as being equal to the Lion of Judah, but as Lanolin has asked: where is more support for that case in scripture if that is really the case? The scripture shows in many places that lions are killers and have needed to have their mouths stopped to prevent them from doing the damage that they would do.
So then why would God use a lion to open the seals of the Book? In chapters 6 we see that it is indeed the Lamb that opens seals one through six. In chapter 8 the Lamb opens also the seventh and final seal.
If the Lion of Judah is not the Lamb of God, who or what is that lion? Is it perhaps as Lanolin has suggested the carnal leadership of Judah, God's chosen people, which failed repeatedly? They were chosen, but the adults saved out of Egypt failed to make it into the Promised Land. When their descendents were finally in the Promised Land they failed to completely destroy the inhabitants of Canaanland as God had told them to do. Just as important they failed to keep themselves separate from those inhabitants and evil ways of those inhabitants.
My Reina Valera [1569, 1602, 1960] Bible translation of Rev 5:5 expresses it a little differently. I translate it back into English this way:
"One of the elders saith unto me: Weep not. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered in order to open the book and to loose the seven seals."
I then consider that the Lion of Judah [the power of the Jews as represented by the Moses, Joshua and kings on the throne] attempted without success to accomplish God's purpose. He [the literal or carnal people of Israel] did conquer the land and killed many of the inhabitants, but they never finished the work. That is, both carnally and spiritually they failed. It is written:
"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1
God called the natural children of Jacob [Israel, Jews] out of Egypt, but He also called Jesus out of Egypt.
"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matt 2:14-15
Both the type or shadow [natural children of Israel] and the reality [Jesus] were called out of Egypt. The type or shadow son of God [Jacob, Israel, Judah] came up short in the wilderness. Jesus, the real Son of God did not:
"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." Matt 4:1
" But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt 4:4
"Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:7
"Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Matt 4:10
The Jews wanted their Messsiah to be the Lion of Judah and at times some pressed for Jesus to be that to fight against the Romans, but consider the prophecy:
"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." Gen 49:10
And what is Shiloh? Shiloh according Strong's is an epithet for the Messiah meaning "tranquil". A sceptre is the symbol of a king's power and authority. The power and authority in men for God was with the Jews until the real Messiah arrived and signaled the departure of the sceptre out of Judah where it had been, not with an army of soldiers nor even the natural force of a lion, but with the tranquility of the Lamb of God.
"Unto him shall the gathering of the people be". Which people? The ones who have chosen God because He called them.
Likely there many pieces missing and some errors in this patchwork quilt, but... there it is for your consideration.
