Nicotine Addiction

[Coconut]

So in saying " Everything is permissible for me, but I will not be mastered by anything..." you concluded "being addicted to anything is a sin" yet strangely enough the word sin is no wheres to be found in that statement, even if it were referring to addictions, which it is not.

Jesus said "nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him" yet "God" showed you addiction is a sin, how can that be?

Either Jesus is right, or your conclusions are right, and Paul is contradicting Jesus. But if you read 1Co 6:9 - 20 in context, Paul is speaking most specifically about sexual immorality.

 

[chinaski]

Coconut

I dont believe smoking cigarettes sinning and I didnt not mean to condemn anyone or point any fingers. That was not the purpose of my post. I am merely telling about my own conviction and that it worked for me. I realice this doesn't apply for everyone.

My conclusion why it was a sin(for me) was this. realized that I was a slave to them. Regardless of how hard I tried to quit it had me bound. I guess it was for me sort of idolotry. I really felt attached to the cigarette and thought I needed it to help me with stress, anxiety and lots of other feelings that actually was a result of smoking in the first place(or the lack of nicotine).
The pshycological addiction usually is much greater than the actual physical addiction. I really felt I needed them to concentrate and stay calm. So instead of turning to God for my needs I turned to "Camel-Lights" wich in my eyes is idolotry. Hence why I repented, Another reason was also the whole "your body is a temple of the holy spirit", if that is so why would I keep messing it up with cigarettes? I shouldnt try to ruin what God has given me. That is all.

Good news is that it worked.
I have been thinking about it. Maybe when I repented I "let it die with Christ" and thats why the addiction went *poof* up in smoke I suddenly didnt have the urge or need for it anymore.

So please dont feel any condemnation. What is sin to one person might not be to another person, however you should not make yourself depend on them.

 

[Coconut]

Thank you for clarifying what you meant chinaski, no problem at all..."good news is that it worked"

If something bothers ones conscience, the scripture teaches that by all means they should not partake of it. In regards to hurting our bodies, I dont mean to say smoking is good for anyone, certianly not, its right up there at the top of the list of the crappiest things we can put into our bodies. (dont really expect any amens from McDonalds or Duncan Donuts or Starbucks faithful patrons here, agreement might mean they`d have to give up what they indulge in too for conscience sake

But, and thats a big BUT, we humans are just as much messing with our health with what we eat, as with anything we might inhale. It has long been taught (contrary to Christs teaching) that one is sinning because they smoke, but that same teaching ignorantly leaves out not only what Christ said, but a host of other human consumptions 'christians' enjoy, wether inhaled or swallowed. The fact is, the mass majority of christians remain sinners if anything we put in our bodies can cause us to sin.

Jesus said it is not so, therefore what we consume, neither glorifies God, nor takes away from glorifying Him, but that which comes out of our mouth. (Mat 15:16)
We may look at an addict on the street corner, and assume he is a sinner. Might he be a sinner because he is an addict, or could it be that Christ is looking at his heart, and accepting him? (Psalm 27:10) Christians need to really pause and consider the inconsistancies in such teachings as 'smoking is a sin', and stop negating or twisting what God has REALLY said, just because thier consciences are being dicated to by "I think...and so it is"

 

[justsavedvince]

Thank you Chinaski for your post. Coconut, take chinaski's reply and that's an example of what I meant by some of my statements. Maybe I don't word things well, or maybe you misunderstood me. If people are honest, you will hear similar testimonies. When you quoted that the verses were talking about sexual immorality, did you stop to consider how addicting sexual immorality can be? Also, because Christ is looking at an addict's heart and accepting him does not mean he is not sinning. Most of the time sinning is what makes us realize we need Jesus. For many born again Christians, including myself, addictions and sinning is what revealed to us that we are not perfect and we need help.. and then we turn to God because we hate what we have done to ourselves... Luke 14:26 goes on to say "if anyone comes to me and does not hate ...his own life... he cannot be my disciple." So for the addict on the street corner, his addiction is a sin and eventually he realizes it and hates it... and that's Christ at work saving him! And yes God "showed" me this through the trials and tribulations i went through that He saved me from. During the cleansing process He taught me why I did those things and helped me to see all sides of the issues. I'm sorry if you can't understand where I'm coming from, but like I said earlier, maybe He hasn't revealed that to everyone... maybe there's a reason for it. I presume there are things He's taught you that I wouldn't grasp right away. I say all of this with all respect. At first, I'll be honest i was kinda frustrated with your reply, but there's no reason for me to do that. So sorry, I'm just here to try and clear things up and help you understand where I'm coming from. If we could a agree on everything it would be a perfect world, but we all know it's not.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Not only does it harm the body, I think smoking is a sin and is used as a socially acceptable escape route. I realized this one day when I wanted to try smoking to relieve my stress and replace my struggle with lust. I wound up not doing that because it would just change my habit to something that more people would find acceptable and it would turn out to be a harder habit to break.
My good friend has a drug addiction problem and when he says he quit smoking pot, he is always smoking cigarettes... He's just replacing his addiction with a new, more common habit. Imagine if cigarettes were banned and nobody could smoke any... what habits would they go back to? How many of those habits would they want to talk about with someone at work, at school, at a restaurant... places where millions of people frequently share their habit. I think smoking is an addiction that stalls many people from dealing with their real addiction. If I were smoking cigarettes, that would be the case for me. It's unfortunate that nicotine addictions are so hard to break, and that they're only a stumbling block in front of the real problems at hand.

I do not believe that your friend is merely swapping one addiction for another. Marijuana is known as a "gateway drug", which means that drug dealers usually find it relatively easy to move pot smokers in the direction of other more expensive and more deadly substances. To my knowledge, cigarettes have never been shown to do that.
SLE

 

[chinaski]

I do not believe that your friend is merely swapping one addiction for another. Marijuana is known as a "gateway drug", which means that drug dealers usually find it relatively easy to move pot smokers in the direction of other more expensive and more deadly substances. To my knowledge, cigarettes have never been shown to do that.
SLE

Definatly a much lesser evil. If you take the cigarette away from a person trying to quit dope you can be sure he wont make it.
Rome was not built on one day

 

[Coconut]

Thank you Chinaski for your post. Coconut, take chinaski's reply and that's an example of what I meant by some of my statements. Maybe I don't word things well, or maybe you misunderstood me. If people are honest, you will hear similar testimonies. When you quoted that the verses were talking about sexual immorality, did you stop to consider how addicting sexual immorality can be?

I understood you completely vince, and it doesnt matter if one hundred people come in here and testify smoking is a sin, if God didnt say it. Sexual immorality is a sin, God said so, whats that got to do with addiction? Without straying to far from the topic here, my husband is "addicted" to narcotics, is he then a sinner? If he doesnt repent and seek deliverance, is his heart not right with God? Define addiction, then show me where the Word of God says addiction is a sin.

Also, because Christ is looking at an addict's heart and accepting him does not mean he is not sinning. Most of the time sinning is what makes us realize we need Jesus. For many born again Christians, including myself, addictions and sinning is what revealed to us that we are not perfect and we need help.. and then we turn to God because we hate what we have done to ourselves... Luke 14:26 goes on to say "if anyone comes to me and does not hate ...his own life... he cannot be my disciple." So for the addict on the street corner, his addiction is a sin and eventually he realizes it and hates it... and that's Christ at work saving him!

ALL of the time, and for ALL of us, our sin is the reason we need Jesus. And it must be revealed to ALL of us we need a Saviour, or we will not even come to Christ. Again, you say "addiction is a sin" yet without showing me where God has said it. Didnt God say over and over again, that the condition of the HEART is the issue?

And yes God "showed" me this through the trials and tribulations i went through that He saved me from. During the cleansing process He taught me why I did those things and helped me to see all sides of the issues. I'm sorry if you can't understand where I'm coming from, but like I said earlier, maybe He hasn't revealed that to everyone... maybe there's a reason for it. I presume there are things He's taught you that I wouldn't grasp right away. I say all of this with all respect. At first, I'll be honest i was kinda frustrated with your reply, but there's no reason for me to do that. So sorry, I'm just here to try and clear things up and help you understand where I'm coming from. If we could a agree on everything it would be a perfect world, but we all know it's not.

God wont show you or I anything that scripture doesnt testify too, so how can He have shown you smoking or addiction is a sin? Why are you frustrated with my reply? Didnt I use the Word of God to clearly show what God has said?

 

[jiggyfly]

The flesh and the carnal mind are hostile towards God. Paul said that the flesh is of a corruptable seed and will remain corruptable. How can you defile something that is already defiled. The flesh stinks and it will always stink.

Here is a quote from a very wise person.


“How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! You are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! *Blind Pharisees! First wash the inside of the cup, and then the outside will become clean, too. Jesus the Christ taken from Matthew 23:25&26

Religion is also an addiction and it does more than rot the flesh it kills the soul but I don't see many seeking deliverence from it. I wonder why?

 

[justsavedvince]

I do not believe that your friend is merely swapping one addiction for another. Marijuana is known as a "gateway drug", which means that drug dealers usually find it relatively easy to move pot smokers in the direction of other more expensive and more deadly substances. To my knowledge, cigarettes have never been shown to do that.
SLE

Have you ever been addicted to marijuana? or cigarettes? My friend is definitly swapping addictions... he's admitted to it, he just justifies it as time goes on.

 

[justsavedvince]

I understood you completely vince, and it doesnt matter if one hundred people come in here and testify smoking is a sin, if God didnt say it. Sexual immorality is a sin, God said so, whats that got to do with addiction? Without straying to far from the topic here, my husband is "addicted" to narcotics, is he then a sinner? If he doesnt repent and seek deliverance, is his heart not right with God? Define addiction, then show me where the Word of God says addiction is a sin.
ALL of the time, and for ALL of us, our sin is the reason we need Jesus. And it must be revealed to ALL of us we need a Saviour, or we will not even come to Christ. Again, you say "addiction is a sin" yet without showing me where God has said it. Didnt God say over and over again, that the condition of the HEART is the issue?
God wont show you or I anything that scripture doesnt testify too, so how can He have shown you smoking or addiction is a sin? Why are you frustrated with my reply? Didnt I use the Word of God to clearly show what God has said?

When we are addicted to something, we tend to resort to whatever act that is when we are stressed out or if some personal situation arises, and eventually it can get bad and turn into a physical addiction. The act is an escape from the feelings that arise before acting out. Whatever the act is, it's resorting to something else that is not God... a form of idolatry... one of the ten commandments. We are all guilty of it, some due to smoking, some due to other things. For many years was addicted to music, a band that I practically worshipped because they were an escape for all of my emotions.
I just found a link explaining it with references. Go to the gotquestions website and seach for "addiction" and click the first link.

 

[justsavedvince]

Jiggyfly, because an addcition to Jesus is the only addiction we should have. “love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might” (Deuteronomy 6:5)

 

[chinaski]

I know this thread has gone far off topic but:

If your friend has quit smoking weed and is instead smoking cogarettes you should be very happy for him. Weed messes with your mind and is indeed a gateway into more heavy drugs. Trying to quit everything at once is often too hard and the preasure is great. That makes the fall if it ocours much severe. Therefor its good news indeed. Been there, done that

 

[Coconut]

It is said that 'if something is repeated often enough, loud enough, long enough, it will become truth to the hearers, regardless of its origin'..that couldnt be truer than when it comes to religion.

Since I know a little bit of religious history, i`m going to leave some information here and let those reading come to thier own conclusions (still bearing in mind Christs words - "NOTHING that enters a man defiles him.") No amount of protest can negate that Jesus really said that, because His words are recorded in scripture ...but here goes...

Rodrigo de Jeres 1492, became the first confirmed tobacco smoker outside of the two Americas. De Jeres landed at what is now known as Cuba, where he observed the natives smoking dried tobacco leaves. The native people wrapped the tobacco, lit it at one end, and inhaled from the other end. After he returned home, his smoking and the smoke coming out of his nose scared the local people. As a result, the Spanish Inquisition sent him to heavy imprisonment for many years, finally releasing him after smoking became widespread.

Several other travelers, including Ramon Pane, a monk who was reputed to be the first man to bring tobacco to Europe, had documented the different ways native people used tobacco. They observed not only chewing and smoking, but also their use of a tube, which was the first observation of tobacco use resembling a pipe. However, a couple thousand years before Columbus arrived, the indigenous peoples of the Americas were already cultivating tobacco on a large scale, by careful hand farming. Pipes existed even in those ancient times, as clay pipes have been unearthed as archeological finds.

It soon became clear that the explorers would not find what they left their homes for--gold. However, they did find other riches such as tobacco, potatoes, and coffee, which spread to several countries including Spain, Portugal, France, England, and so on - even arriving in China and Japan, transported by the ancient merchants. The rapid ascent of smoking was proclaimed to be a pagan ritual and therefore was severely criticized by the religious authorities of the time, specifically the Spanish Inquisition which had ruled that smoking was evil and that good Christians never use this ‘evil’ herb.

Now consider who first called tobacco evil ... for those of you who dont know...
"The Inquisition was a Roman Catholic tribunal for discovery and punishment of heresy...during the Spanish Inquisition alone, an estimated 31,912 heretics were burned at the stake, 17,659 were burned in effigy " Apparently these men who called smoking evil didnt have a clue what evil was, because if they had, they would have then had to hang thier own black hearts on a stake for such incredible hypocrisy.

There is a book titled "For Your Own Good: The Anti-Smoking Crusade" about which one authors review states this : " America had its witch trials, its commie hunts, its slavery. Germany's citizens went along with the vilification, degradation, and attempted murder of all its Jews. It's human nature, apparently, for societies to vilify and harass, such persons and practices as they choose, when they choose, without good reason: as reasons are lacking, societies simply make them up, and most docile citizens just go along with the hate-streams provided." AMEN to that.

Any who are getting the point so far might also like to read:
http://www.hosanna1.com/smoking/Christians/

Now tell me again what GOD said?

Mat 15:16 Jesus said, "Are you still so ignorant?
Don't you know that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and then is expelled as waste? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and it is those things that make a person unclean. For it is out of the heart that evil thoughts come, as well as murder, adultery, sexual immorality, stealing, false testimony, and slander. These are the things that make a person unclean.

We can talk about the "evils" of smoke (that includes marijuana) and drink till Jesus returns, and we`ve completely missed the heart of the matter...so says Christ.


"Religion is also an addiction and it does more than rot the flesh it kills the soul but I don't see many seeking deliverence from it. I wonder why?" AMEN!

 

[Coconut]

When we are addicted to something, we tend to resort to whatever act that is when we are stressed out or if some personal situation arises, and eventually it can get bad and turn into a physical addiction. The act is an escape from the feelings that arise before acting out. Whatever the act is, it's resorting to something else that is not God... a form of idolatry... one of the ten commandments. We are all guilty of it, some due to smoking, some due to other things. For many years was addicted to music, a band that I practically worshipped because they were an escape for all of my emotions.
I just found a link explaining it with references. Go to the gotquestions website and seach for "addiction" and click the first link.

I smoke, so that makes me an idolater? LOL! Come on Vince, you really are having to twist the word of God to come up with that! Seriously, pray tell, are you a monk?
Well, even if you were, thats just another form of escape. I often listen to music to escape...guess that would make me a double idolater in your view, tho I am positive I dont worship anything beside God. Let me ask you, why does the scripture say "God gives wine that maketh glad the heart of man"? (Psa 104:15)

 

[jiggyfly]

Jiggyfly, because an addcition to Jesus is the only addiction we should have. “love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might” (Deuteronomy 6:5)

You have confused religion with relationship vince.

 

[stephen]

Thank you Chinaski for your post. Coconut, take chinaski's reply and that's an example of what I meant by some of my statements. Maybe I don't word things well, or maybe you misunderstood me. If people are honest, you will hear similar testimonies. When you quoted that the verses were talking about sexual immorality, did you stop to consider how addicting sexual immorality can be? Also, because Christ is looking at an addict's heart and accepting him does not mean he is not sinning. Most of the time sinning is what makes us realize we need Jesus. For many born again Christians, including myself, addictions and sinning is what revealed to us that we are not perfect and we need help.. and then we turn to God because we hate what we have done to ourselves... Luke 14:26 goes on to say "if anyone comes to me and does not hate ...his own life... he cannot be my disciple." So for the addict on the street corner, his addiction is a sin and eventually he realizes it and hates it... and that's Christ at work saving him! And yes God "showed" me this through the trials and tribulations i went through that He saved me from. During the cleansing process He taught me why I did those things and helped me to see all sides of the issues. I'm sorry if you can't understand where I'm coming from, but like I said earlier, maybe He hasn't revealed that to everyone... maybe there's a reason for it. I presume there are things He's taught you that I wouldn't grasp right away. I say all of this with all respect. At first, I'll be honest i was kinda frustrated with your reply, but there's no reason for me to do that. So sorry, I'm just here to try and clear things up and help you understand where I'm coming from. If we could a agree on everything it would be a perfect world, but we all know it's not.

Having read your profile, my advice to you is to follow Jesus. and His leading. Do not get encumbered with men, and their thoughts. Follow Jesus. Great days are ahead for those who follow Him

 

[justsavedvince]

well he's now happy that he has quit smoking cigarettes... but he's gone back to weed.

 

[justsavedvince]

I'm not twisting anything up. I'm disappointed you are having a hard time seeing what i do, and I pray God will reveal to you my point here. I got the notion you may have smoked. Can I challenge you to ask yourself why you do it, your thoughts before, during and after you do it, and what behaviors might develop if you tried to stop? What might you learn? The key is being honest with yourself, which is tough to do sometimes. Also you're poking fun at my views, which i find disrespectful. It all comes down to "is what you're doing glorifying God?" One can use music to glorify God and be thankful for what he's allowed man to create, or one can use it in place of getting to the root of something. Does smoking glorify God? Hasn't it been proven that smoking decreases longevity. Would it make God happy that smokers might die sooner or may get serious health problems that wouldn't have developed had he/she refrained from smoking? And if the health problems that result are disabling and keep you from being able to communicate, might you miss out on getting out there where you normally would be to tell people about Christ? Even if it were one more person you could reach out to, that is worth not smoking. And yes God can still use you if you wind up in the hospital or if you get emphysema, but would you really wanna miss out on things He has planned for you in the long run? Sometimes my addiction causes me to wanna be by myself and not go out and I wind up missing out on the opportunities God had planned for me had I not fallen for my addiction. That bugs me when it happens. So, there is definitly an incentive in quitting addictions. God knows my heart and I'm giving you all my testimony and thoughts so you can understand and learn from them. I have been through a lot and I understand addiction and idolatry entirely too well to be told that my views are twisted. God gave me a gift of being able to identify these things and he taught me that through my experiences and freeing me from them... not all... but most. But even with what I struggle with now, it's a daily battle and in the long run, i have faith that the Lord will make me pure and prepare me for my journey ahead. I'm in school for psychology and I'm going to become a Christian family counselor and I want to help people understand and overcome their addictions. What I say comes from my heart and I was hoping to help, but apparently it's not working, so I'll stay quiet until someone wants to hear from me. And I recommend being a bit more polite cuz those little remarks you made about a monk, and even laughing, are a turn off and they give you a bad impression. I came here expecting to be able to testify and learn, but from you I'm finding that hard. And Stephen, I will always follow Jesus, thanks for the encouragement!

 

[justsavedvince]

You have confused religion with relationship vince.

...Obviously it's a relationship, you have confused my thought display by taking it literally.

 

[Coconut]

It is great you want to be a christian counselor, and that you want to help
people overcome thier addictions, but to get he "christ"-ian part right you
would have to know and teach what Christ taught, right? Unless you want to
go ahead with some personal revelation from Him thats not written in His book, but God told us not to do that.

Can I then challenge you to examine the words of Christ before you continue to
persist in saying smoking/addiction is a sin? I`m certainly not trying to
dicate to anyones conscience, or meaning to be disrespectful of your views, if
you feel something is not right for you, then by all means stay away from it.
The scripture teaches it is truth that sets us free, and this is surely the rule even
when it comes to addictions, so you cannot begin the work of helping another
be free, by telling them a lie. There is more than you and I on this forum,
and its for this reason, I am calling into question some of your statements, that I see to be in disagreement with the Word of God.

Heres how its been going:

You say smoking is a sin.

Jesus says nothing you put in your body makes you a sinner

You said no no no smoking is a sin.

Jesus says nothing you put in your body makes you a sinner.

Then you say well addiction makes you a sinner (and idolater)

Want to see where I see the twisting? Or maybe I should say adding to Gods Word:

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; unless he puts
too much of that substance in his mouth and becomes addicted, then he is a
sinner

Did I quote that scripture correctly? No. But its exactly what you are saying.
Do you see my problem with your statement now?

Now Jesus did say the tongue defiles the whole body, but He was pretty adamant
that it was not because of what you chew or inhale. I would admonish any man,
young or old, new convert of old convert, that if majoring in psychology or
any other study(ies), causes him to contradict Christs teachings, he better
switch majors. (no offence intended, I love phychology

Finally you say "I will always follow Jesus."

Jesus asks "why do you call me Lord and dont care what I say?" (Luk 6:46)


You choose not to acknowledge what I`m saying Christ says, and instead turn
the focus of the conversation to a personal point. Thats a good distraction
tactic people use in conversations when they no longer want to stick to
whats being discussed. You say "I recommend being a bit more polite cuz those
little remarks you made about a monk, and even laughing, are a turn off and
they give you a bad impression. I came here expecting to be able to testify
and learn, but from you I'm finding that hard."

I am sorry if you view my responses as impolite. I will gladly explain myself. You said turning to anything besides God,(that referring specfically to smoking) makes anyone
(that apparently includes me) an idolater. I laughed from sheer amusement as
thats the biggest stretch of an arguement I`ve seen used agianst smoking yet.
Lets say I address your statement seriously, then I ask you again why does it
completely contradict that "God gave wine to make the hearts of men glad?" You
couldnt or wouldnt answer that question, why? Does it undermine your whole
arguement?

I asked you if you were a monk in all seriousness, because they are the only
ones I know who live as you suggest, with thier hands folded. As a matter of
fact, you talk about being honest with ourselves, and if you really believe
this is important, (I do to) then at least be honest enough to acknowledge
you are contradictiong what Jesus taught. You are only finding it hard to
learn from me, because I am challenging your views, and you arnt liking it.
This is also preventing you from seeing that I am encouraging you to follow
Christ every bit as much as Stephen is, as it is JESUS words I used as a
basis for what I have said from the beginning.



You state "It all comes down to "is what you're doing glorifying God?" Does
smoking glorify God?"

Lets let Gods word address this question, since as stephen said, (and I fully
agree) we should only listen to God...lets go all the way back to the
beginning:

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed,
which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the
fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.


1Ti 4:3 They will try to stop people from marrying and from eating certain
meats, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing should be
rejected if it is received with thanksgiving

You say "I understand addiction and idolatry entirely too well to be told that
my views are twisted."

Jesus says: "Full well ye reject the precepts of God, that ye may keep your
own tradition." Mar 7:9

I understand addiction pretty well myself, and if you were`nt calling it "sin" and "idolatry"
I might have had no problem agreeing with you.
I can offer one you one small consolation here, most christians I know cover
thier eyes and ears when I say its not a sin to smoke, or drink (centuries of church
teaching precepts of men, trumps the Word of God) so you certianly are not
alone here. I have been there, done that, maybe still do in some areas, God knows, so I would`nt be one to poke fun at views I was once taught and held, without poking fun at myself first anyways. Everything I`ve stated so far is simply the Truth as I see it, no offence intended towards anyone (Maybe I should have introduced myself before I started talking - Hi, I am a religious outcast, pleased to meet you