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No Redemption for Angels

We should also note that in Jude 1:6 And the angels that kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under
darkness unto the judgement of the great day."

And who is it that will judge the angels? 1 Co 6:3 know ye not that we shall judge angels?............
Only guessing here but those that kept their first estate would not need to be judged??
Also note in 7 that the punishment of eternal fire simply consumed the flesh of those it destroyed and everything else it contacted.
The angels that left the estate are reserved unto the judgment, why then would the humans, made a little lower than angels, be eternally roasted when the
angels, like criminals, are simply locked up?
2 Kings 1:12..... If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven and
consumed him and his fifty.

Deu 4:24 For the Lord thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Sodom and Gomorrah indeed were consumed by brimstone and fire, but no angels were destroyed. Just locked up.

Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
If one were to dig deeper one might ask the question why was he cast out of heaven and to the earth? Did God have a purpose for him? He did tempt Jesus and
that was a necessary thing to happen for His sake.
He does work in the children of disobedience Eph 2:2
Did God make a dysfunctional angel when He created satan? Or is he just filled with a delusion of sorts? Did the angels choose to go with him or were they his
to accomplish the will of the Father?
Seeing that God works all things after the counsel of His own will?? Eph 1:11

Only meant to cause one to think. Not establish any doctrine
 
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I disagree. I always mock things that are silly

Isaiah 28:22

22 Now therefore, do not be mockers,
Lest your bonds be made strong;
For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts,
A destruction determined even upon the whole earth.

Do you respect scripture?
 

Isaiah 28:22​

22 Now therefore, do not be mockers,
Lest your bonds be made strong;
For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts,
A destruction determined even upon the whole earth.

Do you respect scripture?

It wasn’t scripture that I was mocking
 
Jude 1:7
(AMPC) [The wicked are sentenced to suffer] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent towns--which likewise gave themselves over to impurity and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity--are laid out [in plain sight] as an exhibit of perpetual punishment [to warn] of everlasting fire. [Genesis 19]
(ASV) Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
(BSB) In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.
(CEV) We should also be warned by what happened to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and the nearby towns. Their people became immoral and did all sorts of sexual sins. Then God made an example of them and punished them with eternal fire.
(CSB) Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns committed sexual immorality and perversions, and serve as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
(ESV) just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
(ESV+) just as R17Sodom and Gomorrah and R18the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and R19pursued unnatural desire,N1 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
(GNB) Remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and the nearby towns, whose people acted as those angels did and indulged in sexual immorality and perversion: they suffer the punishment of eternal fire as a plain warning to all.
(Greek NT BYZ+) ωςG5613 ADV σοδομαG4670 N-NPN καιG2532 CONJ γομορραG1116 N-NSF καιG2532 CONJ αιG3588 T-NPF περιG4012 PREP αυταςG846 P-APF πολειςG4172 N-NPF τονG3588 T-ASM ομοιονG3664 A-ASM τουτοιςG3778 D-DPM τροπονG5158 N-ASM εκπορνευσασαιG1608 V-AAP-NPF καιG2532 CONJ απελθουσαιG565 V-2AAP-NPF οπισωG3694 ADV σαρκοςG4561 N-GSF ετεραςG2087 A-GSF προκεινταιG4295 V-PNI-3P δειγμαG1164 N-ASN πυροςG4442 N-GSN αιωνιουG166 A-GSN δικηνG1349 N-ASF υπεχουσαιG5254 V-PAP-NPF
(Greek NT TR+) ωςG5613 ADV σοδομαG4670 N-NPN καιG2532 CONJ γομορραG1116 N-NSF καιG2532 CONJ αιG3588 T-NPF περιG4012 PREP αυταςG846 P-APF πολειςG4172 N-NPF τονG3588 T-ASM ομοιονG3664 A-ASM τουτοιςG3778 D-DPM τροπονG5158 N-ASM εκπορνευσασαιG1608 V-AAP-NPF καιG2532 CONJ απελθουσαιG565 V-2AAP-NPF οπισωG3694 ADV σαρκοςG4561 N-GSF ετεραςG2087 A-GSF προκεινταιG4295 V-PNI-3P δειγμαG1164 N-ASN πυροςG4442 N-GSN αιωνιουG166 A-GSN δικηνG1349 N-ASF υπεχουσαιG5254 V-PAP-NPF
(GW) What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them is an example for us of the punishment of eternal fire. The people of these cities suffered the same fate that God’s people and the angels did, because they committed sexual sins and engaged in homosexual activities.
(HCSB) In the same way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them committed sexual immorality and practiced perversions, just as angels did, and serve as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
(KJV) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(MSG) Sodom and Gomorrah, which went to sexual rack and ruin along with the surrounding cities that acted just like them, are another example. Burning and burning and never burning up, they serve still as a stock warning.
(NAS77) Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
(NAS95) just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
(NET) So also Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighboring towns, since they indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in a way similar to these angels, are now displayed as an example by suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
(NIrV) The people of Sodom and Gomorrah and the towns around them also did evil things. They gave themselves over to sexual sins. They committed sins of the worst possible kind. They are an example of those who are punished with fire. The fire never goes out.
(NIV) In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
(NKJV) as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(NLT) And don’t forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment.

ἐκπορνεύω
ekporneuō
ek-porn-yoo'-o
From G1537 and G4203; to be utterly unchaste: - give self over to fornication.
Total KJV occurrences: 1

There are many controversial verses in the Bible, but it seems this is more controversial than most. Out of the 21 Bible translations I have, 17 of them say the angels committed sexual acts ( sensual perversions, sexual immorality, fornication, etc.. )
The word here is ekporneuo, which of course is where "porn"ography comes from. It's used a number of places in the Bible as is translated as sexual immmorality and fornication most of the time, 4 of the Bible seems to infer that it is the inhabitants
of Sodom and Gomorrah that are imprisoned in hell here, not the angels. In many Bible you have to read verse 6 to figure out the that the beings who committed sexual sin "just as " Sodom and Gommorah did, are angels. 2 of the Bible don't even
mention the angels at all in this verse. But the word translated as angels in the Greek is...

ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

This word is in the original Greek manuscripts.

Jude 1:6; αγγελουςG32 N-APM τεG5037 PRT τουςG3588 T-APM μηG3361 PRT-N τηρησανταςG5083 V-AAP-APM τηνG3588 T-ASF εαυτωνG1438 F-3GPM αρχηνG746 N-ASF αλλαG235 CONJ απολιπονταςG620 V-2AAP-APM τοG3588 T-ASN ιδιονG2398 A-ASN οικητηριονG3613 N-ASN ειςG1519 PREP κρισινG2920 N-ASF μεγαληςG3173 A-GSF ημεραςG2250 N-GSF δεσμοιςG1199 N-DPM αιδιοιςG126 A-DPM υποG5259 PREP ζοφονG2217 N-ASM τετηρηκενG5083 V-RAI-3S

So then, assuming the original Greek is correct, and the majority of Bibles are correct, it would seem these angels committed some kind of sexual act with someone.

Some people take verses like Matt 22:30; and Mark 12:25; to mean angels can't have sex. But those verses don't say that, they simply say angels are not married. If they did say that, then it would conflict with Jude 1:6-7;

The sole verse in the Bible that mentions a third of the angels defecting with Satan is here...

Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

This is taken by almost all Bible scholars to be when Satan took a third of the angels with him.

So then the obvious question becomes... where and when did they do this? We don't know for sure, at least not from reading Jude. Many believe this was the time in Genesis 6, when the sons "of God" came into the daughters "of men".
It's one thing to differentiate between sons and daughters, but it's another thing to differentiate between sons of God, and daughters of men. Why aren't both sons and daughters of men? Or, if you prefer, why aren't both sons and daughters
of God?

We do know that Jesus saw Satan cast from heaven. Presumably before tempting Adam and Eve in the garden.

Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
So 17 translations are wrong.
Translations are more like interpretations. I wouldn’t put much stock in them
 
I’m sorry, but win what? And where is that written?

Isaiah 14:12-14

" How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
 
Isaiah 14:12-14

" How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

If you want to believe that,it’s fine.
But still it all boils down to interpretation. Scripture does not say,”Hey! Lucifer is Satan!”
 
If you want to believe that,it’s fine.
But still it all boils down to interpretation. Scripture does not say,”Hey! Lucifer is Satan!”

I believe it is his name, but just as I can't prove it is his name, neither can you prove it's not.

There is no one in the Scripture who fits that description but Satan.
 
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations !
Lucifer=The shining one, Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness.

Luke 10:18 And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven".

Satan=the Adversary
 
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But still it all boils down to interpretation. Scripture does not say,”Hey! Lucifer is Satan!”

OK, but even so... someone was cast down out of heaven. Whether it's Satan or not is up to you. But someone.. ( Lucifer, Star of the morning ) was cast out of heaven.

True….”no one”

Well Genesis does say Satan was in the garden. So he would meet the requirements for this passage.

Satan=the Adversary

I see this a lot here on TalkJesus. People are so reprobate in their opinion and thinking, that it can't be changed. Even if you give them several verses supporting your view, that just refuse to see it.

So 17 translations are wrong.

Apparently the original Greek is also, according to you. That's usually the case, the Bible is wrong... and "I'm right".
 
I see this a lot here on TalkJesus. People are so reprobate in their opinion and thinking, that it can't be changed. Even if you give them several verses supporting your view, that just refuse to see it.
It's just a question of where they are in their maturation, education. You and I know that it's line upon line etc.... that takes time and study effort. Not to
mention God has to be willing to allow you to see what is there to see. And without the Holy Ghost residing in us we will not be able to see.

IMO Lucifer is the same as Satan by the quotes above.

The question becomes why was Lucifers name changed from Son of the morning to the adversary? The simple answer is that God changed him for He needed
an adversary for us to overcome. Part of our overcoming maturation process. Jesus' too.

"I make peace and create evil, I the Lord do all these things." Why? Same answer.
"shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?" Through jobs experience in evil he was allowed to see God. Prior to this he only heard
about God. Thus a relationship change where evil moved him closer to the Father.
Seems that experience in evil was a good thing for job in the long run????
 
OK, but even so... someone was cast down out of heaven. Whether it's Satan or not is up to you. But someone.. ( Lucifer, Star of the morning ) was cast out of heaven.



Well Genesis does say Satan was in the garden. So he would meet the requirements for this passage.



I see this a lot here on TalkJesus. People are so reprobate in their opinion and thinking, that it can't be changed. Even if you give them several verses supporting your view, that just refuse to see it.



Apparently the original Greek is also, according to you. That's usually the case, the Bible is wrong... and "I'm right".
I think you would believe anything.
Satan does not get thrown from heaven until tribulation,revelation.12
 
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John 12:31
Yes cast out of THIS WORLD and placed in the bottomless pit. Lucifer was Already cast out of HEAVEN hence the name change.
I saw is a past tense use, so question would be did Jesus see a future event or past event?
Indeed since Satan is here already does He still have access to heaven now? As the accuser of the brethren would seem possible.
 
Yes cast out of THIS WORLD and placed in the bottomless pit. Already cast out of HEAVEN. I saw is a past tense use, so question would be did He see
a future event or past event?
Past, as you said. And now shall the ruler of this world be cast out.
 
Explain your thought as Jesus said more than 2,000 yrs ago He already saw Satan falling from heaven?

Jesus knows and sees everything before it happens.
John saw the entire book of revelation. It hasn’t happened yet.
Again….the plan of salvation was before the foundation of the world.
Again….that was before man was even created.
Everything is according to God’s plan.
Satan is a tool used by God to perfect souls.
 
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