Once Saved Always Saved and Conditional Security

[Nigh]

Heb 13:5: Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, “I WILL NEVER DESERT YOU, NOR WILL I EVER FORSAKE YOU,”
So why will Jesus never desert you nor will ever forsake you according Hebrews 13:5? No reason? No! If you make sure that your character is free form the love of money, being content with what you have. Did I take anything out of context?

You're a little off on this point. Let me explain...
This verse is not saying that Jesus will never forsake you on the condition that your character not love money. It is saying Jesus will never forsake you therefore you have no need for the love of money. Money will fail you, Jesus will not. Place your love in him.
Also the love of money is just one sin, and that verse could be written over and over with any and all sins, but that would be one long chapter and verse.

Look, Jesus will never desert you nor forsake you period! He came and hung on the cross bleeding, battered, and torn not for the righteous, but for the sinner. Do you think he would be ridiculed, hated, spat apon, beaten, pierced, and killed to pay for your sins, only to turn around and forsake you because you have a love of money, or you didn't honor your mother and father? That goes against his very nature.

While I'm here...

Have you ever thought about what would happen to you if you have never chosen to serve Jesus Christ? Thats right you would have been heading for "eternal" punishment. See what I am trying to say? The word "eternal" in eternal life is not describing your salvation, it is describing the gift of salvation. Please think about it. If you justify your belief by the word "eternal" meaning forever and ever, then you would have to believe that you will never go to heaven in the end, since you were first destained to "eternal" punishment. I hope I explained well enough .....and did'nt confuse anyone.

"Eternal life" is describing the effect of your salvation(the cause). Your "salvation" is the effect of your decision(the cause) to follow Jesus. I was not destined to "eternal" punishment as you claimed. I first had to make a decision(a cause) in order to get the results(the effect). If I chose to reject Jesus I still don't see the effect until the day of judgment. Same if I chose to eccept him.
You asked, "..ever thought about what would happen to you if you have never chosen to serve Jesus Christ?" Yes, I wouldn't be at Talk Jesus, and No, I wouldn't be serving my sentence to "eternal punishment" either. I'd prolly be looting somewhere near a natural disaster. I don't know. But the effect of my decision won't be felt until I am judged. This is where it gets good. God loves us so much that he gives us every oppertunity to turn from sin and accept Jesus. This is why you don't see people suddenly burst into flames if they reject Jesus, he will no doubt later in life offer them the chance to chose Christ again. He doesn't have to, but he loves us, and wants to be with us. He gives us more chances than we deserve.

God bless,
Nigh

 

[sade]

Hi Nigh message # 21

I didn't even attempt to really explain hebrews 13:5, it explained itself. not only that, if you read from hebrews 12 to 13:5 you will see why Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us. For example, Heb 12:1 So therefore, _we_ also having so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, having put off every impediment and the easily entangling sin, let us be running with patient endurance the contest having been set before us, I am sure everyone in talkjesus has a bible, please read hebrews 12-13:5.
What do you have to say about 2 tim 2:12 and mat 10:33 deut. 13:6-8 and deu 13:16-18, how do you fit that in with the way you choose to accept hebrews 13:5.
By the way, i never said that jesus will immediately leave you the minute you sin, since you are under grace and mercy, he will always try to bring you back to the straight and narrow path an give you a chance to repent for your sins.
If you are a a born again Christian, you are a new person, usually born again Christians do not sin as much as they used to before their rebirth. Whenever one of God's children sins, because of Jesus, we have and will always have a chance to repent and ask for forgiveness for our sins. Remember repent means to turn away, Jesus will surely forgive us and cleanse us form all unrighteousness. There is no such thing as a Christian dying on the spot right after sinning without first ever having a chance to repent, without first having the Holy Spirit bring it to our attention and our need for repentance and forgiveness. That wouldn't be grace and mercy from God. Jesus Christ talks about the lost sheep, a lost sheep by the way is not an non christian, otherwise Jesus Christ will call them a goat or a wolf or something like that, look at matthewMat 18:12 How think ye? if any man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and go unto the mountains, and seek that which goeth astray?
Mat 18:13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth over it more than over the ninety and nine which have not gone astray.

Christ is known as the shepard and his followers are known as his sheeps. Christ is the saviour and Christians are known as the saved. All Christians are sheeps, so lost sheep is the same as lost Christian. I hope I am able to show you that these two verses are talking about already saved Christians. Now look at verse 13, it says "IF" NOT "WHEN" Jesus finds that lost sheep.Many false teachers who believe in Eternal Security, or Once Saved Always Saved will tell you "when", trying to say that its a guarantee for a once saved christian to turn back to Christ. Thats a lie! Anyways back to my point, what I am trying to say, Jesus always tries to bring back his lost sheep, his disobedient children, because they are in danger of hell fire.
Now you ask how do someone knows they are saved, well, I know I am saved because I have accepted the Jesus as Lord and Saviour couple years ago and ever since then I have been following and listening to Him, and abiding in him with the help of the Holy Spirit, and whenever I sin, which is rarely(and should be for all Christians) the Holy Spirit brings it to my conscience and move me to repent and ask for forgiveness. You see I know to my heart that I love the Lord and want to please him, and because of that I know I will obey him and try not to sin, he will never let me die without ever having the chance to repent for all my sins and ask for forgiveness, but I have to make that ultimate choice. Non Christians do not have these privileges, we do, because we are under Grace! I have my security of salvation by walking in the Spirit, abiding in Jesus, I do not have my security in a doctrine(OSAS).

If a Christian constantly sins without repentance, and continues to grieve and disobey the Holy Spirit and refuse to repent for his sins....even though the Holy Spirit urges him to do so, then God will eventually give that Christian up to his or her reprobate mind. And when that Christian dies and never turned back to God, he or she will not enter heaven but hell.(romans 1:18-2:10)


Concerning the second half of your comment. -

No you wouldn't be serving your sentence for eternal hell just as you are not serving your sentence for eternal life, right?
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YOU SAID IN MESSAGE # 21 - This is where it gets good. God loves us so much that he gives us every oppertunity to turn from sin and accept Jesus. This is why you don't see people suddenly burst into flames if they reject Jesus, he will no doubt later in life offer them the chance to chose Christ again. He doesn't have to, but he loves us, and wants to be with us. He gives us more chances than we deserve.
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You are so right! Thats why we Christians need Jesus so much and need the Holy Spirit to convict us of Sin so that we can repent and have the Lord forgive us and clense us form all unrighteousness. No we dont just suddenly burst into flames, when ezekiel 18:20 says that the soul that sins, shall die, it means spiritually, otherwise the whole world would be dead right now, both christians and non christians. when romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death, it doesn't mean physically death, it means spiritually dead.
when revelation 3:5 was talking about Jesus wont blot out the names of the Faithful christians who had their robes clean, indicating that the unfaithful christians will have their names bloted out, he isn't doing it in heaven right now, he will do it on Judgment!

 

[spirit1st]

Once born of GOD?We are sealed forever more.We belong to HIm!

satan and all demons know JESUS CHRIST is LORd and fear and obey HIm.They know HE will one day send them to the lake of fire.
They know you too.each born of GOD person has power over them.They shake when you are near.knowing you have power to cast them out.
The power is in the NAME for us!
JESUS CHRIST.

 

[spirit1st]

We are spirit soul and body
The spirit once born of GOD?Will never sin again
But the mind can and the body will,if we allow them.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
It is a done deal.He said it is finished .it is !The work HE did took care of everything.All we do is accept it and be led by HIm.
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit. [THIS IS OUR SPIRIT}
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; [INNER MAN IS OUR NEW SPIRIT BORN OF GOD!
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
THIS IS OUR SPIRIT!
2Ti 4:22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.
Phm 1:25 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[Nigh]

I like this...

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 

[spirit1st]

AMEN

 

[Vicente]

Actually satan does not believe Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior... that is where the difference is.. I think you know what he ment please do not try and pick it apart..

I disagree i think that satan does believe that jesus Christ is his lord and savior but he chooses not to except him, there is a difference between believing and excepting. satan knows more about Jesus then you or I will ever know in this life time (I believe) so he knows that he is his savior, but he will never except him as his lord and savior.
I believe that you can lose your salvation not by committing some huge sin or anything but by becoming lax in your relationship with christ and falling away. I believe that you can have a strong relationship with christ and fall away and lose your salvation, I don't believe that people who fall away from christ were never saved, though that might the case allot of times I feel that many of them genuinely loved Jesus but let their relationship lag until they didn't know who he was any more. in the bible it says you have forsaken your first true love meaning that you can truly love Jesus and have salvation and still forsake him.

 

[spirit1st]

JESUS CHRIST did not die for satan ,but for man kind,if we are willing to accept HIM as LORd and SAVIOR.But demons know ,HE has won and that HE is lord over them and they must be put in the lake of fire and all who chose to follow them.But we can repent and follow the LORd at most anytime in life.But our hearts harden as we grow older in sin and many are dead ,while they live and reach a place ,where they will not repent.Today is the day of salvation.We should not wait to except the gift of GOD.
The power is in the name of JESUS CHRIST!The name above every name!Our flesh can sin ,if we allow it ?Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
We have been made overcomers .We do not have to sin.Sin is very evil too GOD.

 

[sade]

reply to spirit1st messsage #23

Once born of GOD?We are sealed forever more.We belong to HIm!

Are we “sealed” no matter how much we sin? My guess is...you will say yes. Aslo can you please give me scriptures that says that we are sealed forever no matter how much we sin. thanks
Lets look at the characteristics of those who are born of God.
1Jo 2:29 If you* know that He is righteous, you* know [or, be knowing] that everyone practicing righteousness has been begotten from Him.

1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us be loving one another, because love is from God, and every one loving has been begotten from God and knows God.

1Jo 3:10 By this are revealed [who are] the children of God and the children of the Devil: every one not practicing righteousness is not from God, and the one not loving his brother.

1Jo 5:18 We know that every one having been begotten from God is not sinning, _but_ the one having been begotten from God keeps himself, and the evil [one] does not touch him.

Mat 7:18 "A good tree is not able to be yielding evil fruits, nor a rotten tree to be yielding good fruits. Mat 7:19 "Every tree not yielding good fruit is cut down and is thrown into fire.

Is sinning good fruits? Is practicing sin "in Jesus" is somehow labeled practicing righteousness before God?

Who lied to you? Who told you that no one on this planet can't stop sinning? Or cannot practice righteousness in the name of Jesus? Jesus didnt seem to think so when he said...
Joh 8:11...... Be going, and {from now on} no longer be sinning."
Did He say, "try not to sin as much'?

You are saved right? I got news for you….. Because you are born of God, you can now overcome sin! You can now practice righteousness with success, all through walking in the Spirit BY FAITH!

You quoted 1 John 3:9- 1Jo 3:9 Every one having been begotten from God is not practicing sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to be sinning, because he has been begotten from God.(Analytical Literal Translation)

So you too believe that those who are born of God are not practicing sin? Do you practice sin?
Well I don't practice sin, I did sinned sometimes because sometimes I let my flesh overcome me, but I felt remorseful and confess my sins to Jesus and he was faithful and cleanse me form all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
There are two kind of righteousness and only one is pleasing to God. The first is self righteousness and the second is righteousness through faith in JesusIf we let go of our own will and wholly trust Him, we will not fall to the ground and break; rather, we fall into “the LAW of the Spirit of life” (Rom. 8:2). For God has not only given us life, but He has also given is a law of life.

satan and all demons know JESUS CHRIST is LORd and fear and obey HIm.They know HE will one day send them to the lake of fire.
They know you too.each born of GOD person has power over them.They shake when you are near.knowing you have power to cast them out.
The power is in the NAME for us!
JESUS CHRIST. :thumbs_do

Satan and all demons know Jesus is Lord and do fear an obey him.

They know that every Christian have power over them in the Name of Jesus.

But do the shake when you are near? Not always!!
For example, if you commit fornication, you have done something of the Devil! (1Jo 3:8 The one practicing sin is from the Devil….)

Since the devil is your accuser, accusing you before God about your fornication (Rev 12:10 ….the accuser of our brothers is thrown down, the one accusing them before our God day and night. ), guess what, with God’s permission, the Devil has all right to have a demon interfere with your life (in whatever way God permits him to)
So no my friend, you cannot cast out a demon out of your life if that demon has the God given right to be there!!!!!! Christian or no Christian, sin is still sin before God! Not unless you confess your sin of fornication before God and have him forgave you through Jesus, Then and only then that demon has no right in your life! And then and only then you can cast it out! Remember…..the devil and his demons cannot do anything with God’s permission. Who are you, O fornicator(I am not saying you are, I am just using the example) to think you can make God remove the demon form your life when you yourself opened up a door for them to enter, when he has the legal right to be there, when God gave the demon the permission for it to be there!! Think about it!
If God knew you had to power to cast them out in your sins, then why on earth would He give the demon permission to be in your life! And please don’t go telling me that there are no demons in any Christians life, and that cannot be, then I am gonna have to pull my head hair out (lol). No I don’t think a demon can posses a Christian’s body, but I think they can interfere with your life externally.

I will reply to the rest of spirit1st post later...i gots lots to study and type

 

[sade]

Are all past, present and future sins forgiven at initial salvation?

Here is my input on this terrable lie told by most churches today!

Past Sins Are Forgiven
Likely none of the authors of Scripture ever considered the possibility that future sins were forgiven in advance. As a result, only Peter wrote specifically on the point we are considering. Peter reminded his readers about it as a side issue to what he was saying. Peter had been urging his readers to “

add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love[4] (2 Peter 1:5-7). He then stated,
“But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his PAST SINS” (2 Peter 1:9).

It is his “past sins” of which he has been cleansed. Wouldn’t it have been equally easy for Peter to say from all sins? He could even have said your past and prospective sins. Or he could have left out the word “past” and just said “sins.” But he specifically said the person was cleansed from his past sins.
There are no occasions in the New Testament when the terms “all sin” or “all sins” are used. If it were possible that all sins would be forgiven at the time of conversion wouldn’t Scripture frequently remind us of that? Instead, it is never stated.

Confess Your Sins and Be Forgiven
The Apostle John assured his readers, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).
Who were John’s readers? Were they the unconverted who had yet to confess their faith, but once they confessed their faith and repented would be forgiven of all sins, past and prospective? Or was he writing to believers? John calls them “my dear children,” then “dear friends,” “young men” and “fathers.” These people are all addressed as if they are believers. For example, to the young men John writes, “I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one” (1 John 2:14). This could only describe believers.
The issue of who John was writing to is of critical importance in order to understand what he is saying. Looking at the verse quoted above, it would be irrelevant to tell people to confess their sins and that God will forgive their sins if they were already believers (as were his readers) if their future sins had already been forgiven. Why would they ask for forgiveness of sins that were already forgiven? They wouldn’t of course. John wouldn’t assure them of forgiveness if they confessed their sins if their sins were already forgiven.
John’s statement only makes sense if we have committed sins that are not yet forgiven and want them to be forgiven. John tells us to confess them to God and that God is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins. John is likely writing this to believers who have sinned and are concerned that God would not forgive them.
The Lord’s Prayer
Jesus taught his disciples the model prayer popularly known as The Lord’s Prayer. In that prayer Jesus taught his disciples to pray, “Forgive us our debts (our sins), as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Matthew 6:12). Was that a prayer to be prayed once at the time of conversion and never again? Of course not. Earlier in the prayer, Jesus taught us to pray, “Give us today our daily bread” (v. 11). That would imply we should pray today, and each day, for our daily bread. As we follow that model prayer, we would also pray daily for forgiveness of our sins.
But wouldn’t it be ludicrous to pray to be forgiven of something that has already been forgiven? To do so would indicate a lack of faith that forgiveness had been granted.
Instead we could choose the obvious meaning, that we are to pray daily for forgiveness of any past sins as it is only sins committed in the past that are forgiven when we pray for forgiveness. And when we confess our sins, we can only confess what we have done, not what we have not yet done.
To bolster that understanding, after teaching the model prayer, Jesus continued, “For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins” (Matthew 6:14-15). Could Jesus teach that your Father will not forgive your sins if your future sins were already forgiven? Of course not. There would be no sins for the Father not to forgive if they had already been forgiven.
Jesus is speaking in the future tense when he says “your heavenly Father will also forgive you.” That implies a continuing action where we forgive others and God forgives us. He also implies future action on our part, “if you forgive men.”
The clear and obvious understanding is that each day we are required to forgive others so that our Father in heaven will forgive our sins. If we do not forgive others Jesus said our Father will not forgive us.
To further cement that understanding, Jesus taught about a servant who refused to forgive a small debt of a fellow servant. His master reinstated the millions he had forgiven that servant and turned him over to the torturers until he should repay all. This is a lesson for us. Jesus said “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart” (Matthew 18:35). Jesus is describing hell – eternal torture that will be visited on each person who refuses to forgive his brother from his heart.
That is just the opposite of eternal security advocates who claim that all future sins are forgiven so there are no fires of hell to fear. The only possible conclusion is that only past sins are forgiven when we repent, confess our sins and ask for forgiveness.
REPENT
In order to understand this discussion about repentance, we must know the meaning of repent. Metanoeín means “change of heart.” When Jesus commanded “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near,” he used the verb metanoeín. Jesus commanded the people to change their hearts. The thrust of Scripture is that we are to have a change of heart with respect to sin – to turn from it and to turn to God. Those who claim that the initial forgiveness of sins forgives sins past and future would agree there is a time we all must repent and that is at the time of conversion when we confess our faith. Thereafter, they claim, all future sins are forgiven and no repentance is needed.
If that be the case, no believer should ever be asked to repent. Certainly no one could be threatened with a loss of eternal life if he did not repent. But is that what Scripture says? Peter made sure we understand that the result of repentance is forgiveness of sins: “Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord” (Acts 3:19).

Churches Were Commanded To Repent
Certainly all new believers would be commanded to repent so their sin could be forgiven and their new life in the Lord Jesus could begin. But in the Revelation, John recorded various admonitions the Lord Jesus gave to the churches. Jesus warned the church at Ephesus:
“Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place” (Revelation 2:4-5).
Here Jesus commanded an entire church to repent. But surely they had all repented at the time of their conversion. Yes, but they had forsaken their first love and had fallen. Jesus commanded them to repent again. If they did not he would remove the symbol of their relationship with him
Jesus warned the church at Pergamum:
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. Likewise you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth” (Revelation 2:14-16).
In this instance Jesus did not condemn the entire church but said there were people in the church at Pergamum who were sinning by idolatry and sexual immorality and holding to false teachings. He commanded them to repent. This time we know his warning is condemnation because he says he will fight against them with the sword of his mouth (if they do not repent). These people were still in the church. We can reasonably assume when they initially became believers they repented of their sins. But that was not sufficient. Jesus commanded them to repent of their sins or be condemned. He wouldn’t have done that if their sins were already forgiven.
Likewise Jesus warned the church at Thyatira about some in their midst:
“I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways” (Revelation 2:20-22).
Jesus warned about specific people in the church at Thyatira. Jezebel was teaching a false doctrine and leading people astray into sexual immorality and idolatry. Jezebel was already condemned for her immorality and unwillingness to repent, but Jesus commanded those who had been led into sin by her to repent. Unless they repented of her ways they will receive Jezebel’s punishment – intense suffering. Again the context is people who once were believers in this church but who have fallen into grievous sin who are about to be condemned if they do not repent.
Jesus distinguished between people in the church at Sardis.
To the church at large he said, “I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you” (Revelation 3:1-3).
Jesus calls them dead. He says their sin is that they were not productive in the kingdom. Their deeds were not complete. They talked the talk but didn’t walk the walk. Jesus commanded them to repent or he would come upon them just as he will upon unbelievers. This was a warning of condemnation.
But Jesus excepted certain people of whom he said, “Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels” (Revelation 3:4-5).
Note the contrast between these and the others. These have not soiled their clothes (with sin). They have overcome adversity and have persevered. Jesus said they are worthy. They are the ones who have salvation.
The church at Laodicea is most like the church of today. Read first how Jesus describes that church and then his warning:
“I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
“Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me” (Revelation 3:15-20). The western church also thinks it is rich and needs nothing. Jesus calls the Laodiceans wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. Jesus says he has everything they need, but they must get it from him. Jesus says his rebuke is out of love. He commands them to be earnest and repent, promising that if they do he will come in to them. Jesus promises that those who do repent and overcome will sit with him on his throne (Revelation 3:21). Jesus implies that those who do not repent and overcome will remain wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked, and will be deserving of condemnation.
None of what Jesus said would make sense if the Laodicean’s sins had already been forgiven. Of what would they repent? It should be overwhelmingly clear that if we drift off into lukewarmness we must repent of that sin to restore our relationship with the Lord.

 

[Colin2000]

Salvation by his Grace!

Hi Sade,

You had me going for a moment there.

Why do I hear someone knocking rather loudly on my door?

I believe without trying to justify it,

1. Keep your eyes upon Jesus!

2. If you fall off your perch: "Go to the Lord and confess your Sins, and keep a short account!"

3. If you find something written on your personal Slate or cannot be sure? Confess it and have the Slate wiped clean!

"Come now, let us reason together," says the Lord.
"Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool."

[The Lord, Isaiah.1:18, NIV, Praise the Lord!].

Colin2000.

PS. "What do you mean I've already voted on this Post? Excuse Alzheimer's!"

PPS. "What did I vote last time?"

PPPS. "Now there's a thing. Never mind I'm taking the tablets.

Hi Moderator,

For 25-Posts in 7-days? Do I get the Cupi-doll or the Booby prize?

Yours in His Name, and I can remember it!

Colin

 

[Jesuslovesu]

Colin... its posters choice....

Hi Moderator,

For 25-Posts in 7-days? Do I get the Cupi-doll or the Booby prize?

 

[Donald]

Once Saved Always Saved?

Ezekiel 18:24 says it all sir! If we were once saved always saved then we could do what we liked and still get into heaven. The apostles, especially Paul, were always encouraging the disciples not to be associated with those who would bring them down see 2Peter 2. God came against the false prophets because they were missleading the sheep Ezekiel 13. So, yes let us keep our minds on Him who has saved us and not get entangled again the things of this world. Let us be like the Psalmist in Psalm 119 and love the Statues, Precepts and ordanances of God word as they revive the sould Psalm 19. I do not know of any that may contradict this.

Enjoy
Donald

 

[TDS52]

Trying to convince someone who IS eternally secure in their belief in Christ as their personal Lord as Saviour reveals that their faith is not easily shaken. People can/do/will interpret Scripture as they see it, but it should be interpreted in context and with God's wisdom...not personal ideas, opinions, traditions nor church doctrines/teachings. We will stand before a Holy God and give account of what we have done with His Son (the Word of John chapter 1)...how we have listened to it, believed it, lined up with it, hid it in our hearts, and shared it with others.

There are many, many instances of the phrase "in Him" throughout the Word of God, when we are "in" something/somewhere, we are the only ones who can get ourselves out. Since salvation is by God and when we believe, we are "hid with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3), I believe I am doubly secure in Him and in my belief in Him. Since the Holy Spirit came into my heart at salvation, he stamped his seal upon my heart/life and I believe I am "sealed unto the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30) The word "sealed" is "to stamp with a private mark or signet for security or preservation (lit. or fig.)"

In canning, when fruits and vegetables are preserved/put up for future use, there is a lid that has a rubber seal on it that is placed upon the jar of hot fruits/vegetables and tightened down, then as the contents of the jars cool they create a vacuum and the seal is drawn down upon the jar with a click. This click assures us that the jar is sealed, it is preserved, it is free from anything getting in that would cause spoilage to the contents nor sickness to those who enjoy the contents in a future meal. The seal is broken only by us, so if we become "unsealed" as Christians, we are trying to say we have had part in the "sealing/keeping" process when all we have done is to trust Him or place our faith in Him to "seal/keep" us. Jude verse 1 speaks to "...them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ,..." Preservation is being "kept from harm, injury, or decay." Preserves (also called jam), once sealed, will never ruin, they only get sweeter and sweeter. This is a picture of a true Christian. As we yield to the Lord's will and He controls, we have a better understanding of how to deal with sin in and around us. We learn to sensitive to the Holy Spirit as He guides us into all truth. We learn to make right choices and/or decisions rather than having to face a lot of difficult circumstances. We will sin, but will never be able to enjoy it as we did before salvation, we have an advocate "go-between, lawyer" in Jesus, who is seated at the Father's right Hand...He is there to intercede for the "sinner" who comes before the throne of grace and asks for forgiveness.

The "keeping" process was dealt with on Calvary. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you. Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5) Salvation is of the Lord...it is all Him...what He did and is doing in, with, and through the life of the believer. He specializes in doing His job, so we can/should let Him. The chorus of a song just came to my mind as I close, "He did it all for me. Each drop of blood, He shed for even me. When the Saviour cried, bowed His head and died. Oh, praise the Lord, He did it all for me." ...and He continues His work within me.

 

[evangeline]

I believe that the only thing (or the only one) that can take away our salvation is ourselves. Salvation is a generous and free gift from God if we choose to accept it and continue to abide in Christ.

The scriptures are emphatic that nothing can separate us from God's love, but WE can choose to be rebellious and turn our back on God. Like the father of the prodigal son, God will continue to wait for his rebellious child to return, but if the child dies before he turns back to God it will be too late.

Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the Faith; test yourselves. Do you not realise that Christ is in you? Unless, of course, you fail the test! 2 Corinthians 13:5



evangeline

 

[Colin2000]

Like that one evangeline. One and all can lock into something unhealthy, IF WE CHOOSE, and end up off the path back in the desert!

This Thread is ventilating quiet a lot of things here!

"But with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect."
[Peter, 1Peter.3:19NIV.].

The Precious Blood of Christ cover us today! and give us Peace!

Colin2000.

 

[rescued]

Ephesians 1:13 says, "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,"

The Greek word for "seal" here literally means something that can never be broken. The strongest seal. Now, if we are marked with this "seal", how then would this seal ever cease to prove true? The answer lies in the vvery next verse--

"Holy Spirit...." ",who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory." v. 14 (Ephesians 1)

Having believed the truth of the Gospel we were marked with a seal [the Holy Spirit] who is a deposit GUARENTEEING our inheritance. This hardly sounds arguable. Once you have faith, you are guarenteed the inheritance.

Some might say, "Well, then where's the motivation? Why continue to do good? Why not just believe once and then go on sinning?"

Oh no. Paul addresses this in Romans-- "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" Romans 6: 1 & 2

When we believe we receive a deposit of the Holy Spirit who works in us and the more you're around someone you love, the more you desire to be like them. ALSO

Believing in God is not the end of the story-- "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." James 2:19

"Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:15-17

You can have faith but no action to back up that faith, in which case the Bible says your faith is dead. You see, faith is enough---but we have to walk the walk if we're going to talk the talk. If we truly have faith in Christ we will WANT to do good works.

"...do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did." James 2:20-22

NOW--

The Bible is VERY clear that we will be rewarded in heaven based on our deeds on earth---BUT our admittance into heaven is NOT based on deeds. ONLY the rewards we get once we are there are based on deeds on earth.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

The passages you posted in Romans are not pertaining to salvation at all---they are relating to JUDGMENT. "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." Romans 2:1

The most important and profound statement of that passage actually lies towards the end...

"For God does not show favoritism." Romans 2:11

I hope this helps to clear at least some of the confusion up. I knowI don't have all the answers---but the Bible does. I realize many would say the Bible's truth's are relative to the reader's interpretation, but I know that God speaks through His written words [the Bible] and I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to guide our minds when we read Scripture.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," 2 Timothy 3:16

Have a great night,

In Jesus Christ,
AJ

 

[rescued]

"Some Christians have faith and can show it by their works(which is good since God will judge everyone according to their works, the bible never says faith alone!)"

Quoted from SADE

Everyone will be judged by their works, yes.

If I were judged by my works alone I would go to Hell. This is the whole concept behind Jesus Christ. You see-- on judgment day when God looks at my works, the BAD will far out-weigh the GOOD and I will go to hell.

Ah, but wait! We are not judged on works alone! We are judged by our faith in Christ Jesus! So, even when my BAD deeds have sentenced me to hell, my FAITH in Jesus Christ is what will save me and give me admittance into heaven.

My faith alone is all I need.

Ephesians 2:8-9--- "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

My salvation has nothing to do with works. It says so right here. Plain. Simple. "not by works,"

Praise God that His love for me never changes, and that my salvation doesn't depend on ME!

Loving Him,
AJ

 

[sade]

hi all...just got back power since hurricane wilma....will be back shortly to reply to this thread

 

[sade]

reply to TDS52

hi TDS52, my texts will be in red and blue and yours will remain in black.

There are many, many instances of the phrase "in Him" throughout the Word of God, when we are "in" something/somewhere, we are the only ones who can get ourselves out. Since salvation is by God and when we believe, we are "hid with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3), I believe I am doubly secure in Him and in my belief in Him.


Bible says:
Col 3:1 Therefore, since you* were raised together with Christ, be seeking the [things] above, where Christ is, sitting at [the] right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Be setting your* minds on the [things] above, not [on] the [things] on the earth.
Col 3:3 For you* died, and your* life has been hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 Whenever Christ, [who is] our life, is revealed, then also _we_ will be revealed with Him in glory.
Col 3:5 Therefore, put to death your* members, the ones on the earth: sexual sin, impurity [or, immorality], lustful passion, evil desire, and the covetous desire [or, greed], which is idolatry,
Col 3:6 because of which [things] the wrath of God is coming upon the sons [and daughters] of disobedience,
Col 3:7 in which _you*_ also at one time walked about [fig., conducted yourselves], when you* were living in them.
Col 3:8 But now you* yourselves also put off [fig., cease from] all these [things]: anger, rage, malice, blasphemy, [and] obscene language out of your* mouth.
Col 3:9 Stop lying to one another, having put off the old [or, former] person with his practices,
Col 3:10 and having put on the new [person], the [one] being renewed in full [or, true] knowledge according to [the] image of the One having created him,
(ALT)
Lets read the verse in context like you advised.
What did the Colossians to do to have had their life hidden with Christ in God?

1. continually seeking the things form above (verse 1)
2. Died to the world; dead to sin; dead to earthly pleasures. (verse 2)
3. made Christ their life, not excuses and sin (verse 4)
4. put to death sins the ones on the earth: sexual sin, impurity or, immorality, lustful passion, evil desire, and the covetous desire or, greed, which is idolatry.(verse 5)
5. ceased from anger, rage, malice, blasphemy, and obscene language out of their mouth. (verse 8)

OSAS says
Christians are hid in Christ no matter what. They are always hidden in Christ even if they don’t put to death their sinful desires, like sexual sin, impurity or, immorality, lustful passion, evil desire, and the covetous desire or, greed, which is idolatry. They are always hidden Christ even if their life isn’t like Christ’s, even if they don’t continue to seek the things form above.

Since the Holy Spirit came into my heart at salvation, he stamped his seal upon my heart/life and I believe I am "sealed unto the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30) The word "sealed" is "to stamp with a private mark or signet for security or preservation (lit. or fig.)"
In canning, when fruits and vegetables are preserved/put up for future use, there is a lid that has a rubber seal on it that is placed upon the jar of hot fruits/vegetables and tightened down, then as the contents of the jars cool they create a vacuum and the seal is drawn down upon the jar with a click. This click assures us that the jar is sealed, it is preserved, it is free from anything getting in that would cause spoilage to the contents nor sickness to those who enjoy the contents in a future meal. The seal is broken only by us, so if we become "unsealed" as Christians, we are trying to say we have had part in the "sealing/keeping" process when all we have done is to trust Him or place our faith in Him to "seal/keep" us.


Eph 4:30 And stop grieving the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you* were sealed [or, secured] for [the] day of redemption.

A seal is a mark of protection and ownership. The Greek word sphragizo is used of a stone being fastened with a seal to “to prevent its being moved form a position.” In fact, this was apparently the earliest method of distinguishing one’s property. The seal was engraved with a design or mark distinctive to the owner of the thing sealed. When the Holy Spirit seals us, He presses the signet ring of our heavenly Father on our hearts of wax and leaves the mark of ownership.
The same Greek word, sphragizo, used by Paul in Eph 4:30 for seal is also found at Mat. 27:66.
Mat 27:66 So having gone, they secured the grave, having sealed the stone, together with the guard [of soldiers].
Since the chief priests and the Pharisees who sealed the tomb didn’t own the tomb (Mat. 27:59-60) we immediately should note a flaw in the OSAS interpretation.
Also, that seal didn’t protect the tomb form being opened by God’s angel when Jesus rose form the dead! The seal was placed on Jesus’ tomb to show that it wasn’t tampered with by Jesus’ disciples, as they thought might occur (v 64).
Finally, Paul, who wrote of the seal of the Holy Spirit, didn’t believe such was an absolute guarantee that all who were once saved would enter the kingdom. This is apparent from Paul’s warnings:
Rom 8:13 For if you* live according to the flesh, you* are about to die; but if by [the] Spirit you* put to death the deeds of the body, you* will live.

Gal 6:8 Because the one sowing to his own flesh from the flesh will reap corruption [fig., moral ruin], but the one sowing to the Spirit from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Gal 6:9 Now let us not become discouraged [or, weary] in the doing of good, for at the proper time we will reap, not being discouraged [or, if we do not get discouraged].

And verses like 1 Tim. 3:6 which also implies that a believer’s seal wont prevail over the soul-damning sin of pride.
1Ti 3:6 not a new convert, lest having been swollen up with pride he should fall into [the] judgment of the Devil.(ALT)

Moreover, sins like envy, strife, anger and the like are all very serious and will exclude a believer form the kingdom, if he lives like this.

Gal 5:15 But if you* bite and devour one another, be watching out [that] you* are not consumed [fig., ruined] by one another.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, sexual sin, impurity [or, immorality], flagrant sexual immorality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities [or, feuds], quarrels, jealous rivalries, angry outbursts, selfish ambitions, divisions [or, discords], heretical sects,
Gal 5:21 envies [or, jealousies], murders, drunkennesses, drunken orgies, and the [things] like these; which I forewarn you*, just as I also warned [you*] before that the ones practicing such [things] will not inherit [the] kingdom of God. (ALT)

Jude verse 1 speaks to "...them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ,..." Preservation is being "kept from harm, injury, or decay." Preserves (also called jam), once sealed, will never ruin, they only get sweeter and sweeter. This is a picture of a true Christian.

Jud 1:1 Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To the called [ones], having been sanctified by God the Father and having been kept in Jesus Christ.
Similar passages are :
1Pe 1:5 the ones being guarded by [the] power of God through faith for [the] salvation ready to be revealed in [the] last time;(ALT)

Bible says – We are kept in Jesus by the power of God through faith.
OSAS says – We are kept in Jesus by the power of God through a one time act of faith.

As we yield to the Lord's will and He controls, we have a better understanding of how to deal with sin in and around us. We learn to sensitive to the Holy Spirit as He guides us into all truth. We learn to make right choices and/or decisions rather than having to face a lot of difficult circumstances.

Agreed……what happens to those Christians who doesn’t yield to the Lord’s will?


You said - We will sin,
Bible says - If we my sin, Jo 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin: and IF AND NOT WHEN any one MAY AND NOT WILL sin, an advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one, (YLT).

but will never be able to enjoy it as we did before salvation, - NOT SURE IF THIS IS BIBLE, YOU MAY BE RIGHT…IF YOU SHOW ME A SCRIPTURE TO BACK IT UP PLEASE.
we have an advocate - you are right with this one we do have an advocate with the Father. But you cant stop there, because the bible doesn’t stop there, the fact that Christians have an advocate with the Father doesn’t help them out IF they sin. It would only help them out if they fulfill 1 john 1:9 which says - 1Jo 1:9 If we are confessing our sins, He is faithful [or, trustworthy] and righteous that He shall forgive us our sins and cleanse [or, purge] us from all unrighteousness.

"go-between, lawyer" in Jesus, who is seated at the Father's right Hand...He is there to intercede for the "sinner" who comes before the throne of grace and asks for forgiveness. – “sinner”? I assume you mean a sinning Christian or a Christian who sins….because the unsaved do not have Jesus Christ as their advocate with the father. So when the Christian who sinned comes before the throne of Grace and asks for forgiveness, then he will get forgiveness for that sin. You are right. But actually if you believe in OSAS, you also believe that your sins are already forgiven at initial salvation and there is no need to ask for forgiveness for a sin already forgiven. So you kind of contradicted your own beliefs.

The "keeping" process was dealt with on Calvary. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you. Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5)

1Pe 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the One according to His great mercy having regenerated us to a living hope [or, confident expectation], through [the] resurrection of Jesus Christ from [the] dead,
1Pe 1:4 into an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been reserved in the heavens for you*,
1Pe 1:5 the ones being guarded by [the] power of God through faith for [the] salvation ready to be revealed in [the] last time;

The “reserving” process was dealth with on Calvary, and the “keeping” process cannot be delivered to us without the condition of ongoing faith! The key words in that verse are through faith.
This verse shows that believers are kept only as long as we have faith in Jesus which is certainly no guarantee (Lk. 8:13) Luk 8:13 "But the [ones] on the rock [are those] who, whenever they hear, receive the word with joy, and these have no root, who for a time believe, and in time of temptation [or, trial] fall away.
Paul also wrote on saving faith –
Rom 11:20 Rightly [said]! They were broken off by unbelief, but _you_ have stood by your faith. Stop being conceited, _but_ be fearing.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps neither will He spare you.
Rom 11:22 Therefore, look at [or, consider] [the] goodness and severity of God: on the one hand upon the ones having fallen, severity; on the other hand upon you, kindness, if you remain in the goodness; otherwise, _you_ also will be cut off.

The Complete word study Bible says that;-
1Pe 1:5 — The phrase “who are kept by the power of God” refers to believers (1 Pet. 1:3). These also have become heirs of a resurrection body (1 Pet. 1:4), and their inheritance is reserved in heaven. The sense in which the perfect participle, tetērēménēn (meaning “reserved” and derived from teréō [5083]), is used denotes that the act was made possible by Christ sometime in the past and is now being kept by Him until the proper time of delivery. Also, the purpose of the protection indicated in verse five is related to the believer’s future liberation noted in the phrase, “kept by the power of God . . . unto salvation” (Rom. 8:23; 13:11).

Salvation is of the Lord...it is all Him...what He did and is doing in, with, and through the life of the believer. He specializes in doing His job, so we can/should let Him.

Not every Christian let him, and we know that because, everytime we sin we disobey God!

The chorus of a song just came to my mind as I close, "He did it all for me. Each drop of blood, He shed for even me. When the Saviour cried, bowed His head and died. Oh, praise the Lord, He did it all for me." ...and He continues His work within me.

He did it all, now its my turn to let him live through me!

LOVE IN CHRIST
SADE