Once Saved Always Saved and Conditional Security

[spirit1st]

BORN -AGAIN is a true birth. At that time , we are giving ourselves to HIM 100% . We are saying take me use me do with me as YOU WILL.
I am WILLING TO FOLLOW YOU 100%.
I give my self and every thing I have or will have into YOUR HANDS .I am willing to obey what ever You say!


We have given up All rights to ourselves!
If we mean it? Then at that point, He makes us NEW CREATURES and has gained Full control over us forever more!
HE then puts the thing in our spirit, HE wants there and sets a seal on us,
That says to all? THIS is mine do not touch.


I have adopted this person as MY child, they belong to me as my family and household!

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Who can take ANYTHING FROM GOD, once it is HIS?
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

SO you see? once we give ourselves to HIM? We no longer have free will. We gave that up, When we gave ourselves to HIm and put the burden on HIm , to carry us though !

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

 

[Cody]

What do you mean when you say, we don't have free will?

 

[Pentecostal]

BORN -AGAIN is a true birth. At that time , we are giving ourselves to HIM 100% .

We are saying take me use me do with me as YOU WILL.

I am WILLING TO FOLLOW YOU 100%.

I give my self and every thing I have or will have into YOUR HANDS .I am willing to obey what ever You say!

Sounds a lot like the individual made a personal Free Will Choice doesn't it? :wink:

And where exactly does the word say God ever took that Free Will back?

I submit that those who think that they do not have their own personal God given Free Will are accusing God of being responsible for every action they take, including ANY, and ALL sinful acts they commit each day.

They hold God responsible for their sins and they also hold God accountable for their sins, in effect stating by their belief, that God should be punished for the sins that they have committed, not them, which IMHO is an extremely harsh false judgment and condemnnation of God.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

I agree with Chad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritLedEd
Only God knows the identities of those who are "permanently saved", the ones whose names are written in The Lamb's Book of Life (see Rev 21:27).

I would agree that names written in that book will never be erased, but it is not ours to declare anyone "permanently saved". Only God can do that.
SLE

That's truth, amen brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad
We discussed this elsewhere also.

Its very simple, Salvation is guaranteed. However, Salvation comes from accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. You must follow Him, not just "believe" in words.

So, you walk away from Jesus, you've lost your Salvation. You walk WITH Jesus, you have Salvation secured by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:11-14

11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

I said this on page 10 and someone else had a similar analogy a few pages before my post.

So why has this thread turned into 16 pages of complexity?

You walk with Christ, your saved. You walk away, your not.

Do not confuse walking away with a believer who sins and asks for forgiveness sincerely. You do not lose salvation if you sin and are forgiven by confessing your sins. The main word here is "repentance" and common sense should tell anyone that repentance on earth will never result in a sinless lifestyle. It boils down to the heart and mind of the "new man" to want to follow and imitate Christ Jesus.

 

[Pentecostal]

Repent: Renounce Evil Practices Experience No Torment! :thumbs_up

 

[spirit1st]

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


He owns us, We gave HIm full power over us! still we do live in liberty and are judged by the law of ?
LIBERTY!

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
GRACE IS WONDERFUL it has so much mercy. We NO longer need to live in FEAR!
We can live in LOVE and FAITH and TRUTh and not worry each day? Will we mess up today?

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


I do not fear MY LORD ,nor worry about losing SALVATION.
I do my very best not to ever sin. Because I LOVE HIM more than ever. and wants to please HIm and be a blessing!

fear is a killer so many live under it.
i do not

 

[Pentecostal]

I do not fear MY LORD.

You do not fear YOUR Lord?

I am not ashamed to say that I fear MY Lord!

 

[Cody]

Psalms 111:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever." KJV

Man, I fear God. He'll whoop my butt!

 

[spirit1st]

He LOVES ME. HE gave up mUCH for to , to gain me as HIS CHILD and ONLY wants the VERY BEST for me. HE Will makes ALL things KNEW, Just for me.

He has built me a Perfect city and guides and Protects me and teaches me and counts me part of HIS family and Household .I LOVE HIM very much .I know He will NEVER leave me or Forsake ME !


Yes at the beginning we fear. But after a time? WE know OUR FATHER as FRIEND .

King of like our dads in the flesh. But GOD is GREATER HIS LOVE for us is GREATER .

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.


Everything HE has EVER done on the planet was for us!

Once we know the GREAT LOVE HE has for us, we will in return LOVE HIM much more and NOT want to do anything that might hurt HIM or make us ashamed .
We Will serve HIM more perfectly and hate evil as HE does and LOVE others as HE does .

Fear is really not a good thing, it is the wrong motivation for life

The right motive for the thing we do is LOVE.
We give out of LOVE , We praise HIm out of LOVE!
We do all things out of LOVE , not fear!


We live in perfect liberty in full trust in our FATHER GOD, though JESUS CHRIST!

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

HOW WONDERFUL to know just how much HE loves us!

GOD is on your side, even when your wrong!

 

[Pentecostal]

GOD is on your side, even when your wrong!

'Your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear' Isaiah 59:2

 

[Jonah2005bt]

I think this should sum it up.

'Your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear' Isaiah 59:2

No-one is saying that Jesus died for our sins, so therefore we can sin.

Jesus died for our sins, in HOPE that we be saved!

Now some of us may have some bad habits according to how we may have been raised as a child on up, or perhaps by a abusive spouse.

But the Lord is patient & kind. He waits, while we struggle & helps guide us along.

HE knows we are sincere because HE knows we try with all our might.

HE also knows what's in our heart, soul & mind.

But like to a crippled child HE shows us HIS mercy.

Sin is wrong, no-doubt about it!

So, therefore, it is written to rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

As you come to Him, the living Stone rejected by men but chosen by GOD and precious to HIM you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to GOD through Jesus Christ. For in Scripture it says:

"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in HIM
will never be put to shame." Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
"The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone," and,
"A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall." {Isaiah 28:16 & Romans 9:33}

They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to GOD, that you may declare the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of GOD; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify GOD on the day he visits us.

Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

For it is GOD'S will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.

Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear GOD, honor the king.

Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of GOD.

But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it?

But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before GOD.

To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

"He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in His mouth."When they hurled their insults at Him, he did not retaliate; when He suffered, He made no threats. Instead, He entrusted Himself to HIM who judges justly.

He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by His wounds you have been healed. For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. {1 Peter 2:1-25}

 

[Pentecostal]

Jesus died for our sins, in HOPE that we be saved

Jesus died for our sins in HOPE that we would CHOOSE to accept his gift and be saved..

Just as we CHOOSE to sin, or not to sin.

And when we do CHOOSE to sin, our sins separate us from God

 

[spirit1st]

Then your saying ?GOD does not mean it when HE says?
I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU.


salvation is a NEW PERFECT SPIRIT!
Which when HE gives it to us? We are HIS forever more!

all scripture is TRUE!

 

[Cody]

spirit1st, I doubt these guys will ever understand Eternal Security. Let them go on and believe that they're keeping their salvation by works. We were saved by Grace, so we're not kept by works. The love we received makes us want to do good works. The spirit we received brings us to repentance.

 

[Pentecostal]

Then your saying ? GOD does not mean it when HE says?

I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU.


salvation is a NEW PERFECT SPIRIT!
Which when HE gives it to us? We are HIS forever more!

all scripture is TRUE!

No I did not say God did not mean it when he said I will never leave you.

I would appreciate it very much if you wouldn't post things that I have never said.

BUT we can choose to leave him IF we decide according to our own GOD given free will to do that, and IF we do decide to leave we are then in an unsaved condition.

That is a true fact, like it or not.....

 

[Pentecostal]

spirit1st, I doubt these guys will ever understand Eternal Security.

Iunderstand that ALL of Gods word is profitable for doctrine not a little bit here and a little bit there which is all the eternal security theory has as it's 'Supposed' sound Scriptural foundational base.

Let them go on and believe that they're keeping their salvation by works.

Works? NO! Faithful obedience to the commandments of God? Yes!

Maybe you need to go to the 14th chapter of the book of John and read the words of JESUS who said IF you LOVE me you will OBEY my commandments!

I said it once and I will say it again, without shame, those who really LOVE Jesus obey his commandments, those who DON'T really love Jesus DON'T obey his commandments

We were saved by Grace, so we're not kept by works.

Every TRUE Christian is saved by Grace thorugh faith Cody, and as I have already clearly and correctly stated every Chritian who REALLY loves Jesus, obeys his commandments, we're not trying to get saved, and we're not depending on any of our own works to keep us saved, we're just living a life of obedience to definitely PROVE that our love for Jesus IS sincere!

The love we received makes us want to do good works.

Forget the word works, and begin to say LOVE! LOVE! LOVE!

That's what obedience of Gods commandments is a sincere expression of a true Christians love for their redeemer Jesus Christ!

The spirit we received brings us to repentance.

The Holy Ghost reminds me daily of the great price that was paid when Jesus bled to death to purchasse MY redemption, and because of that price I choose to obey my redeemer, who LOVED me enough to be obedient, even unto the cruel tormenting painful death of the cross.

Go and pray, and picture in your heart the horrible suffering of Jesus that purchased YOUR redemption and then tell me that I am wrong for obeying Gods commandments!

 

[spirit1st]

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.







Gal 3:22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.



Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which engendereth to bondage, which is Hagar.
Gal 4:25 For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not; for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath a husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

We are of the SEED OF FAITH
AND ARE FREE IN JESUS CHRIST
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[Cody]

We're not forgiven because "we" repent each day. Repent is a command, just like getting baptized and winning souls to the Lord is a command. We're forgiven because of the "precious blood of Christ", and that alone. (1 Peter 1:19 KJV)

 

[Pentecostal]

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.







Gal 3:22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.



Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which engendereth to bondage, which is Hagar.
Gal 4:25 For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not; for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath a husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

We are of the SEED OF FAITH
AND ARE FREE IN JESUS CHRIST
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

A little here, a little there: ALL Scripture is profitable for doctrine, NOT a little here or a little there.

 

[Pentecostal]

We're not forgiven because "we" repent each day. Repent is a command, just like getting baptized and winning souls to the Lord is a command. We're forgiven because of the "precious blood of Christ", and that alone. (1 Peter 1:19 KJV)

We remain in the covenant by way of obedience, we give full evidence of the sincerity of our commitment to Christ and show real proof of the sincerity of our love for him by way of our obedience to his commandments.

You tell me is Jesus a liar? HE said IF you love you will obey my commandments. Was this a lie? IS Jesus REALLY The Way The Truth and the life? You tell me what YOU think? I know he is! That's why I really love him! That's why I strive daily to obey his commandments!