Once saved can we lose our salvation??

[farout]

Once saved

Faith that falters had a flaw at the first

This may be an overly simple statement, but it's true. The meaning of the word eternal is clear. Check out John 3:16. If eternal is not eternal, than maybe John should have said we might perish, no one can know for sure. If we can somehow lose our position in Christ, then how do we know if we are saved today but maybe not the next day? Does Jesus Christ not have the ability hold us in his hand? John 10:28:wink:

If we must some way work at being saved, then it becomes effort on our part to keep us saved. Anything other than the Grace of God, that we try to keep us saved, is a matter of works, Romans 6:23. Ephesians 1:13 says we are "sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise. Verse 14 says the Holy Spirit is given to us "as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possess, to the praise of His glory."

The debate of once saved always saved is not a new one. Only by earnest study of the Word of God will bring you to a conclusion that is based solidly on the truth of God. Any verse taken out of context can support just about any idea. I believe taken, in accurate context, eternal security of the genuine born again believer is steadfast, sealed by His Holy Spirit, held in hand of Christ Jesus, and no one can pluck us away from the security of being in Jesus Christ, amen!

 

[spirit1st]

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,


Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[jiggyfly]

Here is a very simple reassuring question. What was "eternal" mean? it means FOREVER< not ending!

GODs WORD the BIBLE has the exact words that mean what He wanted to use. Satan wants us to doubt the WORD od GOD. Remember how satan tricked Eve, getting her to doubt what God had said, and it worked.
Read John chapter 10. I am sure you will be more assured of your surrendering to Jesus Christ and being saved for eternity! Praise the Lord!:shade:

Ahhh, but the Hebrew word olam and the Greek words aion and aionios have different meaning but are misinterpreted, mistranslated and mis-transliterated.

 

[aristotle]

I honestly did not read all the replies so forgive me if I have said anything already covered. Two things here:
1) Father knows that I am not perfect but He is not disturbed because He knows my heart perfectly, that I do love Him and follow after Him. All those things still not quite right He will make right (in my actions) and His Grace is more than sufficient.

2) Where is your heart toward Him? Do you yearn after Him because if you do then He will meet you at your yearning! The big thing to remember here is that God never forsakes, never orphans but men do forsake. He will never leave you but you most certainly may leave Him.

 

[David777]

Once saved always saved?

Read the following extract from Paul's second letter to Timothy.

"It is a trustworthy statement:
For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

2Timothy2 11:13 (NASB)

There can be no argument about these two lines.

a) We must endure in the Christian life. So the concept that a person
once calls on Jesus and goes on there merry way cannot be saved. As they did not endure with Christ. Simple but true.

b) If we deny Him, that is paramount to rejection of Christ's atonement. Under no circumstances may a Christian ever deny Christ.
Whether saved or unsaved, denial is not permitted.

 

[chicken little]

'as a pledge of our inheritance'
This assumes sonship, this assumes they have received the spirit.
you don't know that but by their fruit which is judged by their actions. so we are going in circles ..

magic prayers and bought indulgences in all forms does not a son make.

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

He still reserved the right to 'blot out' in the case of disobedience , a wise man will not test him on that subject ! .
we don't even know why he would blot us out. that is what is so sad here.
he would blot out because of his mercy!

 

[Strangederby]

Hi. I'm new here myself and must say I've found these forums fascinating. I don't really have an answer to this very good question but wanted to comment. I was a Christian (born again) for most of my life but then stopped believing and for the past few years have been an atheist. So looking back over the replies and bible quotes on this thread I guess the common (Christian) view would be that in my case I have lost my salvation. Or maybe that I never had it in the first place?

 

[spirit1st]

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Going to churches does Not give us salvation!

churches are full of people playing religion! thinking they are Born of God!

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


2Ti 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
This guy traveled with Paul!yet was Never one of Gods kids!
The called hear the LORD! But the spirit of God does not Dwell in them !

 

[David777]

Dear Strangederby.

I can understand perhaps that a person can fall away from Christianity. You said, that you are now an athiest. If you do not mind answering a few questions?

Did you really know who Jesus was, specifically the old testament prophecies?

Were you conversant with all Jesus said and did?

Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed in Jesus?

Thanks strangederby.

 

[Strangederby]

I can understand perhaps that a person can fall away from Christianity. You said, that you are now an athiest. If you do not mind answering a few questions?

Did you really know who Jesus was, specifically the old testament prophecies?

Were you conversant with all Jesus said and did?

Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed in Jesus?

Thanks strangederby.

Some very good questions. I knew my bible well. Read through it several times, though I must admit numbers was hard going. The church I went to promoted group and personal bible study a lot. So I knew and still know what Jesus said and many old testament prophecies.

As far as the Holy spirit goes I thought I had received it at the time. I asked, was prayed for and when prompted "spoke in tongues". Like most people I expect my faith was sometimes more sometimes less but I can't say I was ever 100% certain that god existed back then.

 

[David777]

Thankyou.

Not 100% certain, this i struggle with. My personal view after years of investigation was that Jesus Christ was the messiah. Faith for me seems irrelevant. Almost the opposite view to your view strangederby.

Fascinating subject Jesus Christ, for me the total revelation of truth.

 

[smitty]

lose your salvation

about losing your salvation i am not sure but what does it mean in Hebrews 10 :26 For if we sin willfullyafter we have received the knowledge of the truth , there is no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, v 29, of how much worse punisment do you suppose will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot,counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing and insulted the the Spirit of grace.. i not sure can some one help (2nd peter 2:20),

 

[strawberry]

I've thought a lot about this subject lately and I think once saved always saved. I don't rule out the exception that some may decide to forego heaven and deny their salvation/Christ. Again, I'm not sure why someone would want to do that; but then I don't understand people that are bitter and estranged from their parents/families.

We are children of God. God loves us. He sees our sinful hearts. He loves us just the same. He will never forsake us. He thinks about us even when we're not thinking about him. He longs to be near us. He died for us. That's God's unconditional love.

Even when we were dead by shortcomings and trespasses, He made us alive together in fellowship and in union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation). (Ephesians 2:5)


:heart3:

 

[lioncub]

Firstly before we talk about losing salvation, we must be saved in the first place.

Many claim that Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." is the way to salvation because this passage has the word "saved" in it. But, there are a number of problems with this errant approach.

1. This Book was written to "the called of Jesus Christ", "saints". That is, those who were already saved. What relevance does this book have for the unsaved ?

2. Show me anywhere in scripture where this statement is used by unbelievers to attain salvation.

3. I and countless others neither "confessed with our mouths that Jesus was Lord" and nor did we "believe in our hearts that God had raised Jesus from the dead." and yet we were all saved when we received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

4. This is yet another one of those man-made lies that promise people salvation but instead deceive. They get away with it, because most people don't read and study their bible.

Now for some sound scriptural advice for salvation.

Acts 2:38
1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water
3. Receive the Holy Spirit and you will speak in tongues just like those on Pentecost.

Really simple, isn't it ?

Now, if you have followed the steps in Acts 2:38, you are saved.

Can you lose your salvation from that point on ? Yes. Galatians 5:21, one of many scriptures, which talks about those who do the works of the flesh as not inheriting the kingdom of God.

 

[Fraction]

Firstly before we talk about losing salvation, we must be saved in the first place.

Many claim that Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." is the way to salvation because this passage has the word "saved" in it. But, there are a number of problems with this errant approach.

1. This Book was written to "the called of Jesus Christ", "saints". That is, those who were already saved. What relevance does this book have for the unsaved ?

2. Show me anywhere in scripture where this statement is used by unbelievers to attain salvation.

3. I and countless others neither "confessed with our mouths that Jesus was Lord" and nor did we "believe in our hearts that God had raised Jesus from the dead." and yet we were all saved when we received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

4. This is yet another one of those man-made lies that promise people salvation but instead deceive. They get away with it, because most people don't read and study their bible.

Now for some sound scriptural advice for salvation.

Acts 2:38
1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water
3. Receive the Holy Spirit and you will speak in tongues just like those on Pentecost.

Really simple, isn't it ?

Now, if you have followed the steps in Acts 2:38, you are saved.

Can you lose your salvation from that point on ? Yes. Galatians 5:21, one of many scriptures, which talks about those who do the works of the flesh as not inheriting the kingdom of God.

1. Repent. A change of mind. Changing from not believing to being a believer in Jesus Christ. Knowing in your heart who exactly He is and His importance. Etc. Etc.
2. The thief on the cross did not have a chance to be baptized, and yet Jesus told him that he would walk with him in paradise. It is by faith and grace alone we are saved. Not by any actions. Being baptized is an ACTION of faith. Not a requirement.
3. Everyone receives the Holy Spirit when they gain faith/repent properly. Can you show me where in the bible it says that you will STRICTLY speak in tongues when you gain the Holy Spirit or when you become saved?

 

[jari]

Firstly before we talk about losing salvation, we must be saved in the first place.

Many claim that Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." is the way to salvation because this passage has the word "saved" in it. But, there are a number of problems with this errant approach.

1. This Book was written to "the called of Jesus Christ", "saints". That is, those who were already saved. What relevance does this book have for the unsaved ?

2. Show me anywhere in scripture where this statement is used by unbelievers to attain salvation.

3. I and countless others neither "confessed with our mouths that Jesus was Lord" and nor did we "believe in our hearts that God had raised Jesus from the dead." and yet we were all saved when we received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

4. This is yet another one of those man-made lies that promise people salvation but instead deceive. They get away with it, because most people don't read and study their bible.

Now for some sound scriptural advice for salvation.

Acts 2:38
1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water
3. Receive the Holy Spirit and you will speak in tongues just like those on Pentecost.

Really simple, isn't it ?

Now, if you have followed the steps in Acts 2:38, you are saved.

Can you lose your salvation from that point on ? Yes. Galatians 5:21, one of many scriptures, which talks about those who do the works of the flesh as not inheriting the kingdom of God.

Romans 10:9 doesnt mean anything then?

if people really believe in Jesus as their Lord and saviour then who are you to tell them otherwise?

It has been also shown to you in these forums several times that tongues is not nessary but you never respond to these posts.

 

[RJ]

about losing your salvation i am not sure but what does it mean in Hebrews 10 :26 For if we sin willfullyafter we have received the knowledge of the truth , there is no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, v 29, of how much worse punisment do you suppose will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot,counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing and insulted the the Spirit of grace.. i not sure can some one help (2nd peter 2:20),

This is satement that Paul believed you could not loose your salvation and "Once Saved Always Saved".

In Hebrews, Paul was talking here to belivers about non-belivers, specifically about Temple Spies that were in their midsts, speaking of being belivers and Christians but ,in fact, were trying to lure people back to the temple to participate in sacrifices.

To sin willfully is no Christian, believer or an aspect of one that is saved through having the Holy Spirit living in them.

He is essentially is saying it is impossible to be saved, loose your salvation and to be saved again at your whelm.

The argument is that Christ died one time for us. That's why unlike any Priest before him, when Christ was finished he, in fact, sat down signifying his work was complete. No Priest before him was allowed to sit down in the Temple.

Paul was explaining to his congregation that these , so call Christians, did not have the faith and were not saved or Christians in the first place.
He was saying that there is no such thing as being a Christian (recieve the knowledge of truth or the Holy Spirit) and then fall away ( loose what God gave you as a gift) and become a non-Christian again; you would simply not have been saved yet.

That would be an insult to Christ and say that his work was not sufficient; he is not going to come back, suffer the humiliation all over again and die for you a second time.

When you are truly saved, you are sanctified by Christ's blood and it is a done deal. God said that he would never leave or forsake us and He is not going to take his gift back.

 

[lioncub]

1. Repent. A change of mind. Changing from not believing to being a believer in Jesus Christ. Knowing in your heart who exactly He is and His importance. Etc. Etc.
2. The thief on the cross did not have a chance to be baptized, and yet Jesus told him that he would walk with him in paradise. It is by faith and grace alone we are saved. Not by any actions. Being baptized is an ACTION of faith. Not a requirement.

Are you a thief on a cross under the old covenant ?

 

[spirit1st]

No one was without Sin .Until He rose to heaven and sent back the Holy Ghost!

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain


1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.



Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.



Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.


water cannot even wash away one sin!
Only HIS blood washes our Sins away!

He is the Only way for salvation! There is NO other way!


Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.



Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?


1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

the answer is NO! Listen not everyone speaks in tongues! listen we have lots in our new creature [Spirit] But we might never live much of it!
That does not make us less!
We cannot Ever looked down on our Brothers and Sisters in the LORD!
Plus many stay babies in there spirit man!

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
None of Us or More or less in His body !all of us are Under Only One HEAD JESUS CHRIST our LORD!

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

 

[ForumAddict]

John 10:27-29

King James Version (KJV)


27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.