Opinions on human actions towards sin

[Kmp2890]

Hello Kmp2890.

I've been trying to get a handle on exactly the issue here. You acknowledged that sin regardless of its name is still sin and should not be accepted. Yet on the other hand, it seems that in your mind that each must/should have equal attention given them. If they are not, then none of them should be brought forward. With all this being said you want to know why one is addressed and the other is not?


One battle has been lost though still being mentioned though not as frequently. While the other though heading in the same direction is still being fought in the church as well as in society. You have to separate Society from the Church. One should be following the tenets of the Bible. While the other follows the World.


Until the Lord comes back and establishes His Kingdom here on earth you will have the inequity of what is acceptable and what is not both in and out of the church. Until then. We should as you have mentioned. Love each and every one of them who are sinners, both in and out of the Body of Christ. For we are called to do so. Yet, we are also to not compromise ourselves by accepting behavior that we know is sinful. Regardless of the name.


You have mentioned your church and what has been seen as being acceptable in the youth as doing. Have you, others stood up to be counted and brought forward to the Ministry that what you see is unacceptable? That morality in general needs to be addressed? It wasn't until the law was brought to our attention, that we even knew what sin was. So for the non-believer, the issue is not to stop sinning, but have you heard about the Gospel; do you know Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior? When they have joined the body, then discipleship begins to grow them in the knowledge of the Lord! The Holy Spirit convicts. They begin to learn His ways, His walk, His Love, His Compassion, His Humility, and all the attributes you can mention. Yet not until they bend knee at the Cross!


For the believer sin is there and must be addressed. Scripture is full both in OT & NT in which it is identified to different churches. We do not let it slide. Yes we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. In spite of these failings, we are still called to testify, be witnesses to the truth! Neither Paul nor any of the Apostles were without sin. Did they stop identifying them to others or identify the need to be repentant?


I know the end is near. Do I help it along or fight for the few precious ones that are left in the time that is left? Yes, we pray, we love, but those are not the only things we are called to do. Why do you feel we must we be limited by the actions we are to take?


How will they know sin unless they are told that sin is and what it is? What are they being saved from? How will they know unless we stand up and tell them? Even in the Churches! Most especially in the Churches! Society will tell them that everything is acceptable. Do we stand, and sacrifice for the truth or do we stay silent and let the few souls fall to another when we could have been the vessel by which the Lord would use to bring them to Him? Neither you nor I know who might be moved by our words. One thing we do know if we do not He will find someone who will! Or if we are meant to be the ones, we meet a very difficult road to travel by resisting the Holy Spirit.


Yet in all of this with Love! Oh, how difficult it is to correct a child we love when they do something wrong!!! Yet, because we do love them, we correct them. Even as we are corrected when we do something wrong. He does love us any less?

Only with love Kmp2890

C4E

<><
Normally I take a long time in prayer before posting. I pray these words are true. In Jesus name amen.

Thanks for your post

I believe there is power in praying directly to Jesus that non believers will find their way to Jesus. Once the non believer has found Jesus, then Jesus will guide that person from sin. I'm confident that Jesus can solve all - not humans. I think it might be difficult for a non believer to find Jesus, when that non believer might "feel" attacked...(i'm just speculating here, since I do not know, since I am not a nonbeliever)
This is a problem in society. But I am confident that prayer to Jesus will lead the non believer/skeptic straight to Jesus - then Jesus can guide them away from sin.

So, in my mind, by me, praying to Jesus for the sins of myself, for the sins of others, and for non believers - I am confident that Jesus hears, and the Holy Spirit will find the non believers.

I make the conscious effort NOT to sin - but it doesn't mean that I don't sin daily. I sin in my thoughts. I sin in jealousy. I sin in desire. I sin in irritation or anger. And although the issue of premarital sex occurred before I realized it was a major sin - it still occurred, and I still do not justify it. I make the conscious effort to not sin - however, I don't condemn those who do sin. Do I accept their sin? Absolutely not. Do I accept my past, present, and future sin? Absolutely not! But rather than condemning their sin, or protesting their sin; I pray for both myself and I pray for other sinners and nonbelievers, I pray straight to Jesus.

Matthew 7:4 "How can you think of saying to your friend, 'Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,' when you can't see past the log in your own eye?”

I will not condemn others for their sin - but i also will not accept their sin. I will, however, pray that the Holy Spirit finds the non believer, and guides them in the right way. I know that prayer to Jesus is the most powerful action of all - it is more powerful than any protest that human hands can produce. A prayer to Jesus for these nonbelievers to find Jesus seems more effective than condemning them. I understand where Christians are coming from when they say "how will the sinner know of sin unless they are educated?" Well. To this I say, By assuming we have the power, we are underestimating the power of prayer, and we are underestimating the power of Jesus. If we as practicing, loving Christians pray that the Holy Spirit finds it's way to non believers, then the Holy Spirit WILL find it's way to the non believers. All we have to do is pray. Jesus is the most powerful name. Pray in the name of Jesus, pray to Jesus, that non believers will find Jesus. Prayer is MOST powerful.

How great would it be if everyone knew the love of Jesus? I pray for non believers, rather than condemning them. I don't agree with nonbelievers, but I DO pray for the validity of the lyric "I once was lost, but now I am found - was blind but now I see" Prayer to JESUS will make them see. Not protests. Prayer to Jesus is far stronger than any protest enabled by human hands. The hands of Jesus are the only hands that hold any power.

If some Christians feel the need to condemn, that is between that Christian and God. As Christians, we should be against all sin - however, I feel sin can only be solved through prayer to Jesus. After all, it is Jesus who has the power - not us. When my eyes are on Jesus, I have no time to condemn - I only have time to pray. And prayer to Jesus is the most powerful action in the world.

Other Christians are free to do what they want. Am I against protesting? Yes. Am I against peaceful prayer straight to Jesus in regards to that same sin being protested? No. I am for prayer to Jesus to resolve the sin! So, I guess my question is - I'm not sure why certain people think protesting is more powerful than prayer? We are naive if we think prayer to Jesus cannot solve all. It can, and it will. Prayer to Jesus is the only thing that can solve sin. And Jesus is the one and only answer there is.

 

[RJ]

I'm just saying rather than condemning and hating

I agree and I do not condemn or hate. But , as a Christian, I am not going to accept their unrepentant behavior.
You keep bringing up other sins, but what are we to do about that when we don't have knowledge of another's sin from one day to another. With the homosexuals that are unrepentant and because the secular society is pushing for their rights to be Pastors or marry in the church, that's where we should draw the line. If you don't see the difference, we can't have a logical conversation about it!

 

[Kmp2890]

I agree and I do not condemn or hate. But , as a Christian, I am not going to accept their unrepentant behavior.
You keep bringing up other sins, but what are we to do about that when we don't have knowledge of another's sin from one day to another. With the homosexuals that are unrepentant and because the secular society is pushing for their rights to be Pastors or marry in the church, that's where we should draw the line. If you don't see the difference, we can't have a logical conversation about it!

No I absolutely see the difference. But I believe that prayer straight to Jesus is more powerful than any protest delivered by human hands. I don't think I said it should be "allowed." If I did, I must have typed in error. I believe that prayer to Jesus is the most important and power action of all.

Question. If Christians who practice God's will actively pray straight to Jesus - that the Holy Spirit will find it's way to non believers, will it? The answer is Yes. The prayers of a Christian who follows God's word are always heard! So, with that said... If the Holy Spirit finds non believers - those non believers will find Jesus, and in turn, Jesus will guide them away from sin. If this is done, there would be nothing to protest. I don't think we should stand for sin. We should not. However me, personally, I feel there is more power in prayer to Jesus than there is a protest produced by human hands. But - other Christians are free to do what they want. I don't condemn the sinner, and I certainly do not condemn the Christian for protesting. I just don't accept sin - and I pray to Jesus that Jesus will solve all that is wrong in the world.

Rather than making other nonbelievers aware of their sin - I make nonbelievers aware of the love that comes from Jesus... I do not accept their sin, I do not stand for their sin, but I am in no place to condemn their sin. The way I take my stand against my sins, and the sins of others, is by prayer straight to Jesus - I don't take a stand through protesting... But if people want to protest - they can! Who am I to tell them they can't? I will still pray for both the sinner and the protester.

So - I think we can have a logical conversation (haha). Because
1. I follow Jesus
2. I do not accept sin, and I do not agree with sin. (Both the sin of myself, and the sin of others)
3. I think the only way we differ is by our actions towards sin. aka I take my worries and my fight against all sin straight to Jesus through prayer (I feel there is most power in prayer to Jesus) ... and others feel protesting is effective. It's just the way in which we fight sin that differs. I feel prayers straight to Jesus are an effective way to solve all sin. Others feel protests will solve sin. Even though I don't protest, does not mean I am for the sin. I am not for the sin... I just believe prayer is stronger than protesting. I pray to Jesus to solve the sin.

I understand that certain Christians say they are taking a stance on the issue of sin through protesting - but I think it would be more effective to educate nonbelievers on the great love that comes through Jesus! That's what I want to spend my time educating people on - I don't want to spend my time educating people on their sins.... I want to educate people on the great love of Jesus. Once a nonbeliever is educated on that, they'll be aware of their sins. I believe educating nonbelievers on the eternal love of Jesus is more important than educating others on their sin... Let Jesus take care of their sin. I want to educate others on the love that comes from Jesus Christ.

 

[RJ]

I understand that certain Christians say they are taking a stance on the issue of sin through protesting - but I think it would be more effective to educate nonbelievers on the great love that comes through Jesus! That's what I want to spend my time educating people on - I don't want to spend my time educating people on their sins.... I want to educate people on the great love of Jesus. Once a nonbeliever is educated on that, they'll be aware of their sins. I believe educating nonbelievers on the eternal love of Jesus is more important than educating others on their sin... Let Jesus take care of their sin. I want to educate others on the love that comes from Jesus Christ.

That is admirable and should always be our effort and our goal, but what if they do not want to be educated , much less change, what then?

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Kmp2890

Dear Sister. I can agree in part with what you have presented thus far, but only in part. If one is to go out to protest, one must know why, to what purpose, and how they should present themselves as representatives of Christ Jesus and be really prayed up about it. I would not exclude it completely from being done.

However, I do have one particular issue with you. It is when you used Matthew 7:4

This verse has too often been used to silence righteous judgment in telling anyone that there is such a thing as wrong behavior and if there is they should stay quiet about it because they're not perfect.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. ​

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 (11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. (12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? (13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. ​

There are more verses also that provide the unique perspective of judgment. I am not using these verses to admonish or to show how you are wrong, but to show you that individual verses standing alone seem like they tell the whole story, but in most cases, there is so much more to be found in the entirety of scripture. The actions and behaviors need to be held against the Totality of the Word of God and not compartmentalized. That is why I highlighted v13 above at least the first part. Taken without the others verses what would you have thought it meant?

The following is to show you Dear Sister that there are many perspectives that can be reasoned on this subject that you have brought up and how it is presented. It is not meant to be directed at the position you have thus far stated or how you have done so. Though it may appear to be that way. I know that you have only posted your opinion, so please take the following only an example of what a response against what you have posted might look like.

• What if I had turned this around and said that you are guilty of the same thing that you are accusing other believers of doing? Judging? You've placed judgment on the protester, the sinner in church and believers in general. You've generalized! You included almost everyone in and out of church for condoning sin, even the church itself! Yet, if they were to stand up and say something they would be wrong, because they themselves are sinners and would be judging. We have the word of God for a reason, and praying to Jesus is not the only reason we have it.

Oh, I know you could argue the above, but I hope you can see what I am trying to show you. Our desires are that everyone reflect the Love of Christ Jesus in all that they say, and do. I know you share this. Just remember that many are still growing into it. Their walk is not where your walk is at. You will continue to move as the Holy Spirit moves you to do, but remember that others will also, even if it appears to you that they are being false about it. If it wasn't in the Word of God would you believe the following verse, and what else might He consider so?

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe" 1 Corinthians 1:21

Dear sister. Continue to use the precious gift of prayer! You are an important part of the Body of Christ. We need more prayer warriors like you!!! Don't ever stop. There are many Saints on the front lines who need it, and even more in the world who do not know Christ Jesus as their Savior as well, that can use your supplications on their behalf as well.

On this subject. Peace and Love.
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[Kmp2890]

@Kmp2890

Dear Sister. I can agree in part with what you have presented thus far, but only in part. If one is to go out to protest, one must know why, to what purpose, and how they should present themselves as representatives of Christ Jesus and be really prayed up about it. I would not exclude it completely from being done.

However, I do have one particular issue with you. It is when you used Matthew 7:4

This verse has too often been used to silence righteous judgment in telling anyone that there is such a thing as wrong behavior and if there is they should stay quiet about it because they're not perfect.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. ​

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 (11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. (12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? (13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. ​

There are more verses also that provide the unique perspective of judgment. I am not using these verses to admonish or to show how you are wrong, but to show you that individual verses standing alone seem like they tell the whole story, but in most cases, there is so much more to be found in the entirety of scripture. The actions and behaviors need to be held against the Totality of the Word of God and not compartmentalized. That is why I highlighted v13 above at least the first part. Taken without the others verses what would you have thought it meant?

The following is to show you Dear Sister that there are many perspectives that can be reasoned on this subject that you have brought up and how it is presented. It is not meant to be directed at the position you have thus far stated or how you have done so. Though it may appear to be that way. I know that you have only posted your opinion, so please take the following only an example of what a response against what you have posted might look like.

• What if I had turned this around and said that you are guilty of the same thing that you are accusing other believers of doing? Judging? You've placed judgment on the protester, the sinner in church and believers in general. You've generalized! You included almost everyone in and out of church for condoning sin, even the church itself! Yet, if they were to stand up and say something they would be wrong, because they themselves are sinners and would be judging. We have the word of God for a reason, and praying to Jesus is not the only reason we have it.

Oh, I know you could argue the above, but I hope you can see what I am trying to show you. Our desires are that everyone reflect the Love of Christ Jesus in all that they say, and do. I know you share this. Just remember that many are still growing into it. Their walk is not where your walk is at. You will continue to move as the Holy Spirit moves you to do, but remember that others will also, even if it appears to you that they are being false about it. If it wasn't in the Word of God would you believe the following verse, and what else might He consider so?

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe" 1 Corinthians 1:21

Dear sister. Continue to use the precious gift of prayer! You are an important part of the Body of Christ. We need more prayer warriors like you!!! Don't ever stop. There are many Saints on the front lines who need it, and even more in the world who do not know Christ Jesus as their Savior as well, that can use your supplications on their behalf as well.

On this subject. Peace and Love.
YBIC
C4E
<><

Thanks for your reply! I don't judge the protester or the sinner - My intent wasn't to judge, I was just making realistic observations and just wondered why some Christians think protesting is more powerful than prayer? Why not come together and pray about sin rather than protest? I'm confident that prayer is most powerful, and that's just the way I choose to handle sin. I take it straight to Jesus - I don't take it into my own hands. God will judge everyone (God will judge me, He will judge the protester, and He will judge the sinner) - what a relieving thing that I don't have to be the judge!

I do agree with what you're saying - MANY people isolate individual Bible versus to manipulate situations and to manipulate Scripture. It is truly unfortunate. My use of Matthew 7:4 only pertained to me - as it rings true with my inner feelings. I personally cannot protest, because I do not feel internally right with having sins of myself, yet protesting against the sins of others - however, that does not mean that I stand "for" the sins of others - I do not stand for the sins of others, and I don't stand for the sins of myself. Instead using protesting as my stance against sin, I take my concern of sin straight to Jesus (both for my own sin, and for the sins of others). I do agree with you, though, that MANY Christians, as well as MANY nonbelievers use isolated biblical versus to make an entire argument - but that was not my intention. I was just using Matthew 7:4 to support my feelings towards why I cannot personally contribute in protesting. Other Christians, however, can react to sin however the want - I just can't protest (me, personally).

I don't like protesting because I think it might make people feel bad - and I don't like to make people feel bad. I don't even like to make nonbelievers feel bad... I understand that Christians are trying to make nonbelievers aware of their sins - but I would rather make nonbelievers aware of the love that comes through Jesus - rather than make sinners aware of their sins.

That's just the way I handle it though Christians don't have to agree on everything - but I think we agree on most - the only difference is the way in which we react to sin - some react in protests, I react in prayer to Jesus.

Life scares me - it's a scary place. I humbly accept that I don't know all of the answers, I just do my best to follow God's word, and I always put Jesus first in everything I do. I have friends who are strong Christians, I have friends who are nonbelievers, I have friends who are homosexuals, and I have friends who are other religions - I love them all. I pray for my sin, and I pray for their sins. I am confident that through my prayers, the Holy Spirit will eventually find these people, and will eventually show them the way to truth.

Hope this makes sense!

 

[Kmp2890]

That is admirable and should always be our effort and our goal, but what if they do not want to be educated , much less change, what then?

Great question! I have certain friends who don't want to be educated, much less change. What do I do? I pray for them. I pray straight to Jesus for them - that Jesus will help them see. After all, many are blind, and will one day see - I can't give up hope on them. I pray so hard that one day the Holy Spirit will find them, and will show them the way to truth. Pray is the only thing I can do. It's all anyone can do. I believe that yelling at nonbelievers will push them further away from knowing Jesus. I feel that being patient with nonbelievers, not giving up on nonbelievers, and PRAYING for nonbelievers will one day bring them to know the love of Jesus. I feel that treating my friends who are nonbelievers with kindness, and gradually nurturing them - I am so confident that the Holy Spirit will find it's way to them, and I am confident they will one day know the love of Jesus. Even though I do not accept many nonbelievers' beliefs - I can't give up on them, though Hope you understand.

 

[RJ]

Even though I do not accept many nonbelievers' beliefs - I can't give up on them, though Hope you understand.

I understand and agree completely. But, the way things are going these days, I say keep praying always but be prepared to take a stand for the truth!

 

[amadeus2]

This is just my opinions on the topic - and I'm interested in learning what other people think

If homosexuality is a sin, isn't the act of condemning that sin also a sin?

Explanation:

It seems like it’s a vicious cycle that just keeps getting worse. If in the Bible, homosexual actions are a sin, we should also acknowledge the multitude of sins every one of us commits on a daily basis.

Amen! Too many who are point their fingers are likely in as bad or worse a pit themselves, if a comparison could or should be made:

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

In the OT atonement was to be made for sin committed in ignorance (Numbers 15:28), but for premeditated sin a person was to be cut off from his people (Numbers 15:30-31). While we may not be under the literal law God gave to Moses, we know that God has not changed. In the NT we see this:

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." I John 5:16-17

Jesus makes a distinction here:

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." Matt 12:31-32

I think, however, that anyone would be hard put to show that a person actively involved in homosexual acts had in every case committed a worse sin than the average heterosexual fornicator.
This is perhaps why God has forbidden men to make such final judgments.

Premarital heterosexual sex, for example, is a sin that many people commit, however, it does not seem to get nearly enough light shed on it with our society. And the fact that it does not have light shed on it is a fault of humans. Protests aren't being held for premarital heterosexual sex. Why? Perhaps because society is attempting to assign rank to sins. This is a result of humans deciding which sins are worse than others. But the truth is, God says he hates ALL sin, equal. So if humans shine light on certain sins, shouldn’t other sins should also have light shed on them?

There was a time in the history of these United States when harsh judgments were made for heterosexual activity outside of marriage, but from what I know of it, women were usually treated much worse than male offenders. Our emphasis has changed, but our unfitness in most cases to stand in judgment of someone else has not.

Am I trying to justify sin? No. But I certainly am not ranking sin, and I am making the conscious effort to not condemn others for their sins, because I know that I have a BIG log in my own eye.

Rather than protests and condemning, try prayer and trust that God will solve all problems. It's not our place to condemn others when we have sin of our own... But it is our place to glorify God's kingdom with acts of kind service to God others.

Amen!

 

[Christ4Ever]

If homosexuality is a sin, isn't the act of condemning that sin also a sin?

Thanks to Brother @amadeus2 for quoting the above from the original thread. For it brings up a question I would ask on a point that is relevant to the entire discussion.
@Kmp2890
Quick question before calling it a night. I'm still going to reply to your last reply to me, but the below question is something I can do quickly before getting these old bones to bed so I'm not run down tomorrow at work!

Is telling someone that they are sinning considered "condemning" them?
You can separate it into "Believer/Non-Believer" if the answer is dependent upon their current state.

Blessings Sister.
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I'm not questioning the fact of sin vs. not sin... I'm questioning the fact of why humans decide which sins receive more attention than other sins... (God hates ALL sin).... I have to wonder why homosexuality gets more attention than premarital sex, adultery... etc (MANY, many people engage in heterosexual premarital sex, and our society seems to not deem it an "issue of sin" even though it is, equally a sin in God's eyes). The bible says all sin is bad, so if we protest, why aren't we protesting all sin? Also - I don't think I'm in the position to protest other individuals' sins when I sin myself.

If we truly paid attention to Matthew 7:4 we would notice that we sin within ourselves, and we should worry about our own sin and our own standing with God before we worry about the sins of others... Do we have to "like" or "accept" sins of others? No. But I don't believe we should be condemning or protesting them when each and every single one of us sin on a daily basis.

Praise God finally some one willing to speak out against this modern day judging that too many Christians are doing and feel that they are called to do so.
Every Single time we judge others we set a standard on how we will be judged and the problem with that is, we raise the standard higher then we can live up to. This judgment, is in our here and now as well.

People are taking scriptures and pulling them out of true context claiming they say we must judge and making way too many false acvcusations against the servants of God.
Thank you for this thread.
God Bless
Jim

 

[amadeus2]

Thanks to Brother @amadeus2 for quoting the above from the original thread. For it brings up a question I would ask on a point that is relevant to the entire discussion.
@Kmp2890
Quick question before calling it a night. I'm still going to reply to your last reply to me, but the below question is something I can do quickly before getting these old bones to bed so I'm not run down tomorrow at work!

Is telling someone that they are sinning considered "condemning" them?

"Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee." Prov 9:8
The problem is whether not the object of your rebuke is wise or not.

 

[Christ4Ever]

"Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee." Prov 9:8
The problem is whether not the object of your rebuke is wise or not.

Thanks Brother for replying.

Since the rebuke would be to a believer I can only assume they have a little wisdom somewhere within them. Why rebuke them then?

Hummm.......maybe for the poor example that they are setting for the non-believer and other Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus. Whether they want to believe it or not they may be the only example of Jesus Christ that another may ever get to see. Let it be an example that is worthy of a Servant of the Lord.

As far as the scorner/non-believers sin. Their current condition already speaks of a certain lack of wisdom. So why rebuke one who is condemned already?

Love you brother!
C4E
<><

Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. 1 Timothy 5:20 (I want to say this verse is meant for the purpose of the church and not the non-believers)
Open rebuke [is] better than secret love. Proverbs 27:5
I added these brothers to show what you already know. There are many positions that can be supported through the use of scripture. If one can do correction in love, and with love. We are walking a lot closer with the Lord then if the truth is spoken by us without love. YBIC

 

[amadeus2]

Thanks Brother for replying.

Since the rebuke would be to a believer I can only assume they have a little wisdom somewhere within them. Why rebuke them then?

Don't consider only the literal modern meaning of the word, rebuke. The intent I see in the verse I quoted is to "correct" the wise man. Until we have overcome everything that stands between us and God as Jesus did, we all could at time use some "correction" even if it happens to come in the form of "rebuke". Then again, sometimes an often "good" man may have let himself get out of line to the point that he needs a strong "rebuke" rather than a mild "correction".

Hummm.......maybe for the poor example that they are setting for the non-believer and other Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus. Whether they want to believe it or not they may be the only example of Jesus Christ that another may ever get to see. Let it be an example that is worthy of a Servant of the Lord.

Yes, indeed, the Jesus in us may be the only Jesus others have ever seen. Let it always be Jesus as Jesus appeared to those living in natural Israel about 2000 years ago. Impossible?

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

Who is it that will be working in us so long as we allow it, if not God?

As far as the scorner/non-believers sin. Their current condition already speaks of a certain lack of wisdom. So why rebuke one who is condemned already?

Indeed, they have not yet killed all of their beasts:

"She [Wisdom] hath killed her beasts..." Prov 9:2

We are condemned already while we remain dead [the condition of the natural man who has not met and believed in Jesus], but if we are working with God to overcome some of our beastly nature, are we without salvation? Consider the unclean and clean beasts on the 1st and 2nd levels of Noah's Ark. They were also saved from death, were they not?

Love you brother!
C4E

And God loves all of us an! Thank you for being a friend and a brother.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Don't consider only the literal modern meaning of the word, rebuke. The intent I see in the verse I quoted is to "correct" the wise man. Until we have overcome everything that stands between us and God as Jesus did, we all could at time use some "correction" even if it happens to come in the form of "rebuke". Then again, sometimes an often "good" man may have let himself get out of line to the point that he needs a strong "rebuke" rather than a mild "correction".

You have spoken rightly my brother. That is why our correction must be done with love. The person being rebuked or even corrected might not consider the cause for it, but might know the love by which it is given and find reason to consider it.

Yes, indeed, the Jesus in us may be the only Jesus others have ever seen. Let it always be Jesus as Jesus appeared to those living in natural Israel about 2000 years ago. Impossible?

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

Who is it that will be working in us so long as we allow it, if not God?

Indeed, they have not yet killed all of their beasts:

"She [Wisdom] hath killed her beasts..." Prov 9:2

We are condemned already while we remain dead [the condition of the natural man who has not met and believed in Jesus], but if we are working with God to overcome some of our beastly nature, are we without salvation? Consider the unclean and clean beasts on the 1st and 2nd levels of Noah's Ark. They were also saved from death, were they not?



And God loves all of us an! Thank you for being a friend and a brother.

Only by God's grace my brother and so it also was with us.

Love you brother!

 

[Kmp2890]

Thanks to Brother @amadeus2 for quoting the above from the original thread. For it brings up a question I would ask on a point that is relevant to the entire discussion.
@Kmp2890
Quick question before calling it a night. I'm still going to reply to your last reply to me, but the below question is something I can do quickly before getting these old bones to bed so I'm not run down tomorrow at work!

Is telling someone that they are sinning considered "condemning" them?
You can separate it into "Believer/Non-Believer" if the answer is dependent upon their current state.

Blessings Sister.
YBIC
C4E
<><

Regardless if telling someone they are sinning is considered condemning or not - the way in which it is handled is often confusing to me. I'm just confused on why some people feel protesting is more powerful than prayer. It isn't... We aren't more powerful than God. Prayer is kinder, and more effective (in my opinion) That's all

 

[amadeus2]

Regardless if telling someone they are sinning is considered condemning or not - the way in which it is handled is often confusing to me. I'm just confused on why some people feel protesting is more powerful than prayer. It isn't... We aren't more powerful than God. Prayer is kinder, and more effective (in my opinion) That's all

Right, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Cor 14:33
People in places of power protested strongly against Jesus because they not understand or worse they understood, but refused to accept what he was teaching and preaching and living. Without prayer and fasting we cannot do what God wants us to do, but sometimes we try anyway and then wonder what happened.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Sorry you not allowed to say

Regardless if telling someone they are sinning is considered condemning or not

because it goes to the heart of your opening post in which you said

If homosexuality is a sin, isn't the act of condemning that sin also a sin?

That is why I asked

Is telling someone that they are sinning considered "condemning" them?
You can separate it into "Believer/Non-Believer" if the answer is dependent upon their current state.

I agree that prayer is more powerful then protesting. However, you should also agree that "some" of the protesters might be doing so in answer to their prayer or someone elses.

I agree that we are not more powerful than God, but neither do we know better or how it is that God will choose to have His power felt. Think on Martin Luther King and the protests that as a Man of God he led. Was he wrong as an Ordained Minister of God to lead people in this fashion? If it only depends on the subject, then there is more soul searching to done, by all of us. One can argue methodology, but let's not diminish the capacity of another's' love or understanding because it's not how we believe it should be done.

Your statement of

Prayer is kinder, and more effective (in my opinion) That's all

shows the tender heart & spirit that you have. Just don't limit how God chooses to have His will accomplished.
C4E
<><

 

[Kmp2890]

Sorry you not allowed to say



because it goes to the heart of your opening post in which you said



That is why I asked




I agree that prayer is more powerful then protesting. However, you should also agree that "some" of the protesters might be doing so in answer to their prayer or someone elses.

I agree that we are not more powerful than God, but neither do we know better or how it is that God will choose to have His power felt. Think on Martin Luther King and the protests that as a Man of God he led. Was he wrong as an Ordained Minister of God to lead people in this fashion? If it only depends on the subject, then there is more soul searching to done, by all of us. One can argue methodology, but let's not diminish the capacity of another's' love or understanding because it's not how we believe it should be done.

Your statement of



shows the tender heart & spirit that you have. Just don't limit how God chooses to have His will accomplished.
C4E
<><

Thanks for your post

my entire theme through out this thread was only to gain insight on why certain people protest rather than pray - could my action of questioning the protester be considered a sin in itself (possiblyme condemning the protester) absolutely! It's absolutely a sin! BUT I also acknowledged that I am not perfect and that I sin on a daily basis, which is my entire foundation on why I do not protest... because I don't feel in place to point a finger when I am sinning so much myself.. that's why I pray instead. Do I think the sins are right? No. I just don't protest, I pray instead. I did say though, that I pray for both the protester and the sinners, just as I pray for myself. So in that sense, I do my best to not judge and to not condemn. I still don't think that protesting makes people feel very loved, which is why I pray for their sins straight to Jesus, instead of protesting. I want to push these people closer to Jesus, not push them away - and I just feel (personally) that prayer is most kind and most effective. Just a matter of opinion, though

 

[Shutterbug]

Good afternoon Kmp;

The beauty about prayer is that it's passive; the person or situation does not need to know about it. But, suggesting a person needs prayer means that some kind of judgement or assessment has been made by the person wanting to do so. For example, Kim Jong II, he can not stop people praying for him because he cannot control people outside of the DPRK. The worst people who make the news need prayer more than our friends. I believe Talk Jesus encourages its members to be prayer warriors on occasion. And, it may take a lot of prayer. Jesus stated that some situations require a lot of sincere prayer because of the forces involved.

Pray until even your knee pads require knee pads. As all things are in accordance with God's will, the outcome is academic for the purposes of this discussion. But, if we do not make an effort to seek out and pray for the war lords, the drug lords, etc., and pray for them, nothing will change for those they victimize. Behold, I stand in the door and knock ... Phil 4:8 Cheers, John