our current president is stupid!

[gdemoss]

I find your post here very contradictory and still say your opinion does not match up with the scriptures that testify of God's character.
America is made up of Americans and foreigners some legal some not, why you think it is not people I haven't a clue.

If you wish to define America as the people then that changes things a bit. In that case you cannot define the Constitution or Bill of Rights as a part of America. Nor any law that is on the books today as part of America. All of the ways that the people have chosen to legislate morality cannot be called part of America. You cannot call the various social groups such as churches within America, America. Playboy and Penthouse are not part of America. Etc, etc, etc.

In that case then I love America but hate the works of their hands which I don't have a one word label for. It is merely semantics anyway. God loves the people and he sent his Son to give them a way to return unto him through repentance from those works of their hands that they worship. But God is not only Love but Justice as well. He will destroy those who continuously enjoy the works of the Americans hands without repentance by sending them to the lake of fire.

 

[jiggyfly]

If you wish to define America as the people then that changes things a bit. In that case you cannot define the Constitution or Bill of Rights as a part of America. Nor any law that is on the books today as part of America. All of the ways that the people have chosen to legislate morality cannot be called part of America. You cannot call the various social groups such as churches within America, America. Playboy and Penthouse are not part of America. Etc, etc, etc.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

In that case then I love America but hate the works of their hands which I don't have a one word label for. It is merely semantics anyway. God loves the people and he sent his Son to give them a way to return unto him through repentance from those works of their hands that they worship. But God is not only Love but Justice as well. He will destroy those who continuously enjoy the works of the Americans hands without repentance by sending them to the lake of fire.

Do you think the goal of God's justice is obedience or vengeance?

 

[gdemoss]

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.



Do you think the goal of God's justice is obedience or vengeance?

the goal, obedience (2 Pe 3:9). the reality, vengeance (Heb 10:30) when people will not repent. Either way Justice. Some save with fear pulling them out of the fire.

 

[brakelite]

Hi brakelight! Thanks for the reply. I need to ask. How do you know that the Holy Spirit was frustrated in establishing truth?

Because so many of the truths that God revealed to the reformers are now as we speak being compromised. Methodists, Episcopalians (Anglicans for our English bros and sisters) Lutherans, Presbyterians, plus many independent denominations and churches are now entertaining the idea that the reformation was a big mistake and are returning to Rome...the blood of the reformers who all died in defence of truth is now being trampled underfoot as if the differences were but a semantic squabble between friends. That is why the Holy Spirit has been frustrated. Truth matters, and it is being eroded away everywhere we turn.

How do you know that America was God's idea and that his motive was to make a place where Christians could go and grow without impedance?

In short, prophecy. I suggest you read through the thread http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-bible-prophecy/38601-were-they-right.html ...I know it is a long read but I will shortly be explaining the remainder of Revelation 13 and included in that will be the answer to your question. To appreciate what I have yet to offer one needs to read what has gone before. There is a step by step process that I have endeavoured to follow to help readers appreciate and understand what God is revealing through His prophets.

Yes, America recognizes freedom of religion as a God-given right. God, however, doesn't recognize freedom of religion as a right though...he is narrow minded on that subject. His religion or the lake of fire....we get to choose. I and everyone else in the world have freedom of conscience as a God given right. We all have the right to die for what we believe in. With my understanding of the God of the bible, I do not have the right to fight to secure anothers right to worship some other God or God contrary to his wishes. This isn't to say that Christians should rise up and take control and somehow make this country bow to the knee of Jesus Christ by force. To the contrary Christians are supposed to seek to live peacefully within the country that they live in with the exception of reproving the darkness around them. If we are in fact not having fellowship with darkness but rather reproving it then we tend to have difficulty even in a 'free' country.

With this I must respectfully disagree. If God did not respect, even institute, our freedom to choose, our freedom of conscience, then love has no meaning. Love demands that it grant the object of that love to freely choose to respond in like, or not. It is not the freedom that is wrong, but the use we make of it.
You rightly state that Christians ought not use political power to legislate religious doctrine or promote by force any one religion above another...why would you propose that however it is ok for God to do so?

The Christian Kingdom is not of this age, if it were the Kings men would be called to fight, rule and reign. That time is coming but is not yet. This world and all of its ruling parties are of the devil. This includes each of the so called Christians who take office as President or the US Congress. Jesus could not get elected in Jerusalem and he won't get elected in the US either. But I say unto you, I would only wish to be ruled by Jesus himself (which I am) and have him writing the laws to be followed. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen until his return. Until then I will deal with whatever is provided as a government and continue to try an recruit as many into his army as possible because the final war is approaching. If you ask me whether I like living in a nation where I am not persecuted for my faith (by the government), I have to pause and say....my flesh does but my spirit cries out in pain because it understands why.

Yes, the same reason persecution ceased in the 4th century. True religion has been compromised and the spirit of Constantine is on the throne of the church.

What did God think of Israel when they allowed worship of foreign gods? What caused Israel to be taken into captivity? Were they not yet moving toward the idea of freedom of religion? Are we not told that these things were written for our learning? Is freedom really Gods choice for governing? Does he just want everyone to live freely? And everyone did what was right in his own eyes...a verse found in many places in the OT that pointed to the downfall of Israel. Why do we need government? Is it not because of those who have rejected Jesus as King? If everyone walked as he walked there would be no need for law or governing bodies. Most people have rejected God as their ruler and the bible as their law. I'd rather obey God than serve my own belly. I cannot protect another persons right to worship a false God or God falsely. It is sin. Those who continue in sin go to the lake of fire. I instead choose to reprove the works of darkness. Even if it costs me my freedom or my life. Fear him who can kill the soul.

May God bless you in all spiritual wisdom

Gary

Again, there was nothing wrong with the freedom Israel had, to choose or reject the ways of God. What was wrong was the use they made of that freedom, by choosing wrongly, and suffering the penalty.
God desires we love Him. Our love cannot be forced, we cannot be cajoled into loving God, nor can we be coerced. God desires our free choice to love and serve Him, and promises us His blessings if we so choose.
Love on any other terms is not love. We have a term for forced love, it is called rape.

 

[gdemoss]

Because so many of the truths that God revealed to the reformers are now as we speak being compromised. Methodists, Episcopalians (Anglicans for our English bros and sisters) Lutherans, Presbyterians, plus many independent denominations and churches are now entertaining the idea that the reformation was a big mistake and are returning to Rome...the blood of the reformers who all died in defence of truth is now being trampled underfoot as if the differences were but a semantic squabble between friends. That is why the Holy Spirit has been frustrated. Truth matters, and it is being eroded away everywhere we turn.
In short, prophecy. I suggest you read through the thread ...I know it is a long read but I will shortly be explaining the remainder of Revelation 13 and included in that will be the answer to your question. To appreciate what I have yet to offer one needs to read what has gone before. There is a step by step process that I have endeavoured to follow to help readers appreciate and understand what God is revealing through His prophets.

So you have no biblical basis for your statements about the Holy Spirit and his emotions except to say that these people, who are called the reformers, had ideas that are not being held to today? I don't worship people. Calvin, Luther, Spurgen, Wycliffe etc....just men many of which had doctrines of men.

With this I must respectfully disagree. If God did not respect, even institute, our freedom to choose, our freedom of conscience, then love has no meaning. Love demands that it grant the object of that love to freely choose to respond in like, or not. It is not the freedom that is wrong, but the use we make of it.
You rightly state that Christians ought not use political power to legislate religious doctrine or promote by force any one religion above another...why would you propose that however it is ok for God to do so?

Because he is God. And he has legislated religious doctrine it is called the Torah. And has promoted by force one religion above another as we have seen the slaughter of men, women and babies by the hands of Gods chosen men when they took the promised land by force.

Again, there was nothing wrong with the freedom Israel had, to choose or reject the ways of God. What was wrong was the use they made of that freedom, by choosing wrongly, and suffering the penalty.
God desires we love Him. Our love cannot be forced, we cannot be cajoled into loving God, nor can we be coerced. God desires our free choice to love and serve Him, and promises us His blessings if we so choose.
Love on any other terms is not love. We have a term for forced love, it is called rape.

You say "God desires we love Him" as if he needed something. If God were merely seeking after our love then that is not love 1 Cor 13:5. God is seeking what is best for us and that being our obedience. And that through chastening, which is coercive but for our good because he loves us. Gods love is beating someone with a rod so they don't die. His ways are not our ways and his love is not our love. But our ways must become his ways and our love as his love else we perish. He actually tells us to save others with fear, Jude 20. I serve the God of both testaments. In the old testament we get a picture of what it is like for the kingdom of God to be operating on Earth. In the new testament we are told that our Kings kingdom is not of this age and we are not to fight.

God is awesome. His ways are truly past finding out.

Gary

 

[PrinceMichael]

Obama is not a Christian, He is Muslim and He seriously does not speak out very harshly against the Islamic far-left radical agenda, the Caliphate.

Authority in Heaven is given to The Son of Man, not our presidents of our governments.

Christ returns as a conquering King of Kings and Lord of Lords, not as a puppet politician in a wall street three piece suit to the beast world system that has failed humanity and left millions perhaps billions in death, severe illness and in great need of a real savior and leader.

"He who wins souls for Yahweh is wiser than He who serves himself."

 

[s.i.e.]

Yes I realize that when he was elected, that the economy was already bad. However, he just made it worse! He didn't do ANYTHING
to make it better!

Instead of pulling out the war, he didn't. That money could've been used to create new jobs, but instead he just insisted on keeping in this war for ages. To my knowledge he is FINALLY pulling troops out, but too little, too late. The damage of his poor decision has already been done.

Also because of the government not knowing how to manage their budget properly, the nation is in MASSIVE debt. Of course, we're the ones suffering the consequences because of it.

Animosity: if this thread is for our benefit, I might suggest that none of us here need more reasons to increase our human-nature'ed-propensity to want to increase the room we give for resentment / bitterness / anger, etc.

If this thread is for your benefit: yes, we all know what's going on in our government nowadays, as you've again reminded us here...but the real question is, what's going on with you, in all this, Animosity?



Where do you go, with this?

To where does this discussion lead you?

Are you now satisfied, to where you are back at peace with yourself and the world, now that you have vented, and others have participated in response to it?

Is your goal to find a way to let it go, or is your goal to fan the flames of your discontent?

Is this leading to your wanting to forgive?

Is this helping you?

s.i.e.

 

[Kit Carson]

Good morning Elshadia, Father in heaven, for you are the Alpha and Omega. You know all and hold all. You tell me to pray for our leaders and our government. Please forgive me when my prayers are not heartfelt.
You tell me your ways are not my ways, but Father I do not understand. I see the corruption and the crime and the lack of the wish to follow the simple rules of morality and justice and the burden placed upon us to support sin by our government.

I do not understand, and do not like it. I come to you in respect and ask you to change it. It all makes me cry.

I bear them no ill will, but I do not understand the why and the way and the reasons. So will you allow me to respectfully simply say I do not like the current situation at all. Can you please fix it.

On the light side, do not allow me to cause you to sin, you see God and I have a laugh sometimes , he gave me a sense of humor so we can laugh. I also told him, you know this Trump Guy, his great debate is losing participants and he is considering canceling the debate. I asked God to relent and allow Mr. Trump to show off his fancy hair doo........Lol, roll on the floor, die laughing, and do not allow me to influence you, this is between myself and God, just a bit of a laugh.

That is my morning prayer, off to work now.

Kit