"Paul did not know about modern homosexuals and loving gay marriages"

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Many seem to think homosexuals are targeted by Christians--but at 1Corinthians 6:9-11--- it teaches against fornication( man and woman having sexual relations and not being married--adultery--cheating on ones spouse) plus many other things there condemned by God and it clearly teaches---will not enter Gods kingdom. it mentions drunkenness( drug addiction would be included as well) thieves, the greedy, idolaters, revilers, extortioners, it teaches--that is what some of you were( past tense) a true follower has put these things in their past.( true repentence)-- yet many of these are being told they are saved or born again by teachers who do not have Jesus as their head.
Homosexuality has been around for a long time, Paul understood it very well--God used Sodom and Gommorah as an example. he will not accept any of the thiongs mentioned at 1Cor 6:9-11 nor Galations 5:19-21--but the majority on earth practice these things.

Doesn't the word say those who practice these things will NOT inherit the kingdom of God ? That is not the kingdom of Heaven.
The kingdom of God is where a born again spirit filled believer is walking in the Blessing of The Lord here on this earth. Heaven is where His throne is. This passage does not say they will go to hell. The only clear way in the word of God that will keep any one from entering into heaven is NOT MAKING CHRIST JESUS THE LORD OF THEIR LIFE. No Blood to repersent you..........sin is not washed away.....no Jesus to defend you..........well you get the picture.......... The worse serial killing woman rapeing man will not go to hell for his killing and rapeing..........Nope the only thing thast keeps him out would be no Jesus as Lord and Savior.....

Those churches who protest and hold signs saying God hates the gays.........is a lie from hell.....God hates NO PERSON....God hates SIN, death sickness and so forth.............Jesus would sit down with a gay couple and have dinner before sitting with an unforgiveing judgeing Chrtistian.....Then again salvation would comer to that house too. : )

 

[RJ]

well there is a difference between a repentant sinner who fails to meet perfection and the sinner who is unrepentant and refuses to accept God's judgement concerning their sin.
the first variety is saved, the second is not.

I completely agree.
The Liberal / Progressive influence is that God is about love and acceptance; the homosexual sin is no worse than any other sin and they must be accepted.
No, we are called to love the sinner but hate the sin.
Jesus said we are to even love our enemies, but he said nothing about accepting who they are or what they stand for. Surely, we should afford the same courtesy to the Gay.
There will be, I am sure, a many of a repentant homosexual, healed and in heaven. A non-repentant homosexual, no way!

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Many people make this argument - that Paul did not know about modern homosexuals and their loving monogamous relationships (""gay marriage"").

But is that true? Would Paul have had any concept of this supposedly "modern" phenomena?

Three months after the first legal gay marriage I saw news about the first legal gay divorce.
Interestingly enough a man can still have more than one wife so whether a marriage is monogamous is not really relative.
We condone divorce and remarriage in the church and no one seems to mind.
So this is way down the slippery slope that began with condoning divorce and remarriage.

 

[Purrl Sugar]

Proverbs 17:15
He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord.


Thank God polygamy isn't legal as yet in this country. But as all other perverse sins become legally allowed the right to display and even to oppress others who are religiously opposed there is one certain law that will never change. God's.
There is no such thing as a sexually active homosexual Christian. Paul did not know about so called loving gay marriages because they did not exist. A man laying with another man as he would a woman was just as much an abomination to God in Paul's time as it was in Abraham's. And as marriage was ordained by God those who would have committed that abominable sin in the eyes of God would have been dead, not blessed.

This is why the prohibition against sexual immorality, that included homosexuality, remained as a warning in the New Testament. And as God says there too, they shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
The only tolerance there is for homosexuals is repentance of their sins. Period. Sadly, this nation, the world itself it appears, seems to be on a slippery slope straight to Hell. Morality is called names, as are those who cleave to a moral and righteous nature. While all things perverse are tolerated, proudly paraded, and given the right to be civil.

God help us, it appears to be the Devil's turn to write the laws of the world.

 

[Curtis]

Being "deserving of death" would not be a thing to be "proud" of!!! Gay pride is of the Devil, and those who do such things know the judgement of God.

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Eric D Moore]

My words remain. It shall not be mentioned nor a name given to it. So saith the Lord. Repent. I say repent ye here. There is nothing this way. Follow the one I have sent. Hang upon him build upon my rock upon my mountain. He will lead you in the way. Follow him. Blame is among those in the nations. Come out from there and run to him. If you will not repent, keep your godlessness from the people that they may receive forgiveness on your part. There is nothing for you but go forth and be godless among the nations that you shall be together among many and departed from one. Never again will you have anything, and in here you will take everything, go and be condemned. Build no bridges to the afterlife, the life eternal is everlasting. If one of you should hear my words come here and call me to you. Many people will perform signs in my name but I will perform nothing but myself for them so that they may see my glory. The word, the Lord god mighty and all saith. Hear me and Amen. Reach me and Amen. Praise be to him, the one and only and may he ignite the flames of judgment by his one true hand, mind, body, and soul. I am I and he. Me and though. I and me. There is no other and none of him of who it shall not be spoken. These words be sustained throughout and henceforth I sustain them. So saith the Lord.

 

[Ophel]

Many people make this argument - that Paul did not know about modern homosexuals and their loving monogamous relationships (""gay marriage"").

But is that true? Would Paul have had any concept of this supposedly "modern" phenomena?

Well, if you do a quick google search on the history of "same-sex unions" you will find out some interesting things.

It was actually quite prolific in ancient rome (the same ancient rome that Paul wrote to when he condemned homosexuality).

At least two of the Roman Emperors were in same-sex unions; and in fact, thirteen out of the first fourteen Roman Emperors held to be bisexual or exclusively homosexual. The first Roman emperor to have married a man was Nero, who is reported to have married two other men on different occasions. First with one of his freedman, Pythagoras, to whom Nero took the role of the bride, and later as a groom Nero married a young boy to replace his young teenage concubine whom he had killed named Sporus in a very public ceremony... with all the solemnities of matrimony, and lived with him as his spouse A friend gave the "bride" away "as required by law." The marriage was celebrated separately in both Greece and Rome in extravagant public ceremonies. The Child Emperor Elagabalus referred to his chariot driver, a blond slave from Caria namedHierocles, as his husband. He also married an athlete named Zoticus in a lavish public ceremony in Rome amidst the rejoicings of the citizens.

As Paul was speaking for Jesus Christ, always under the anointing, to Jesus, there is nothing new under the sun. so this whole idea of homosexual marriage is just a compounding of sin---willfully digging their graves deeper, so to speak, because they know innately that they are thumbing their noses at God. Nevertheless, people are not condemned by their particular sin, but by their position before holy God---whether righteous because of the blood of Jesus applied to their sin---or not.

 

[Curtis]

Many people make this argument - that Paul did not know about modern homosexuals and their loving monogamous relationships (""gay marriage"").

But is that true? Would Paul have had any concept of this supposedly "modern" phenomena?

Well, if you do a quick google search on the history of "same-sex unions" you will find out some interesting things.

It was actually quite prolific in ancient rome (the same ancient rome that Paul wrote to when he condemned homosexuality).

Sin is neither modern or old. Sin sin no matter what time in history it is committed. The sin of homosexuality is the same today as it was back in the time Paul.
What makes the sin of homosexuality so hideous is in the fact they welcome it as being fun, and do not even attempt to refrain from it when they know within themselves it is wrong.

 

[Brighthouse]

Paul sure understood!! He could not made it more clear then here!( rom 1:24-32!!)

 

[Shutterbug]

Paul sure understood!! He could not made it more clear then here!( rom 1:24-32!!)

The topic of homosexuality tends to anger me and I don't really know why. My job brings me in contact with them and for the most part we get along as I'd rather be a gentle giant than a mean midget. It's not my job to judge their personal habits or character as long as it meets company guidelines. Our tasking as Christians is to love every one as we love ourselves. Jesus died for the sinner, not the righteous. As none are righteous, we all qualify.

What separates the men from the boys is the desire to be a good company employee by being a good example; same goes for being a disciple of Christ. A typical Bell Curve is ten percent will do well, ten percent will do poorly, and the rest fall somewhere in between. Another current topic thread is the debate of when Satan became a fallen angel. I have read due to a verse in Scripture which says he was that way from the beginning. I've also read elsewhere that he was created for the purpose of rebellion which the former sentence could be used to support. Personally, the latter doesn't make sense as it would be a lose-lose situation for him. Why would God create someone to work against him? Perhaps as a test for us? While that may sound reasonable, it doesn't make sense to punish some one for doing their job.

What does make sense, for reasons which are not entirely clear other than pride, is that Satan rebelled and encouraged others to rebel. In my opinion, this type of action encompasses a far broader segment than homosexuality or even sexuality. As has been previously mentioned, a number of issues can prevent our names from being written into the Book of Life.

At what point do we become separated from God? It begins when we decide to do things our way, by deciding what we think is best for us regardless of what the rules are. While all sins are forgiveable, Scripture states that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not. I believe this includes actions as well as words. Cheers, John

 

[Brighthouse]

I think the topic tends to anger many people!! And the reason is not because others judge them, but the Word himself looks to make all of us,accountable to do,as well as to speak!( james 1:22) Even as i was made accountable having sex before marriage( 1 cor 6:15-18!!!) It is those who look to make excuses to sin as I did,that I look to bring a light upon. I know how much I hurt myself as well as others looking to defend something I have no chapter and verse for! All this just because my poor feeling got hurt at the truth! The grace is showing the word,the truth is living this out in our lives,for if we hear but never do,what value is the belief we say we have in the faith?? I will let you judge you,I have already judged myself in this. But take heed!!( gal 6:7-10) and ( col 3:25) If you think for one second there is no consequence to staying bad, and only speaking good,then you are only deceiving yourself as i once did! Wake up!! Rom 13:11

 

[Ophel]

If you know any homosexuals who have experienced the saving power of Jesus and are not FREE, or overcoming, then get them the deliverance that they need to be unhindered in their witness. If they are not free and walking in their freedom in Christ, then Jesus might be their Saviour, but He has yet to be their Lord.

A compromised life is a poor witness to Jesus Christ, and that life is most likely the one that cherry picks scripture.

 

[RJ]

I will say this because of the persecuted homosexuals who practice the faith who have tried their best and fought the good fight and have been saved not due to the will of their own doing, but are justified and redeemed based upon the promise of god. As the scripture states

The big difference here is the possession of a repentant heart, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit! You can be ignorant of a sin, but you can't be a "Born Again" with Christ in you and be non-repentant for your sin.
God is the judge, and it would be my bet that he will not justify an unrepentant sinner!

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

I will say this because of the persecuted homosexuals who practice the faith who have tried their best and fought the good fight and have been saved not due to the will of their own doing, but are justified and redeemed based upon the promise of god. As the scripture states

Romans 3:23-24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace though the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Deuteronomy 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after the Lord thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, for my righteousness the Lord hath brought me in to possess this land
Deuteronomy9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart dost thou go to possess their land.

Matthew 19:17 Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good.

Ephesians 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast

we all have broken them at some point otherwise jews/blacks and many other groups would not have freedom
Ephesians 6:5 Slaves obey your earthy masters

and liars won't make it either(and we all have missed up on that one before)

SO let us judge righteously as God told us to do

Romans 10:9 if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is the Lord and that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

So many Christians are cherry picking this issue

no, it is you who is cherry picking scripture, and twisting scripture.

we do not have to be sinlessly perfect in order to be saved.
even the best of us, the most Holy Spirit filled, most faithful and devout servant of the Lord, even them still fail at times.
but they are trying their best to obey God. and they do not continue in any willful sin. and they allow God to define what right and wrong is.

the unrepentant homosexual is not trying their best to please God, they do not allow God to define right and wrong but instead define morality for themselves, and they deliberately continue in willful sin without any remorse or shame.. but instead with pride they wave their flags of rebellion and wage all out war against the almighty.

can an unrepentant sinner be saved? can an unrepentant sinner confess with their mouth and believe in their heart?

well, lets take a look..

"Not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father in Heaven will enter" -Jesus

so we see that faith without works is dead.

and we know that we will know the saved by their behaviors. we will know them by their fruits.

is homosexuality a fruit of The Spirit? on the contrary, practicing homosexuality demonstrates rebellion against The Spirit.

as we know that neither passive homosexual partners nor active practicing homosexuals will inherit the kingdom of God, nor will the effeminate male or the masculine female.
(1 corinthians 6:9-10)

 

[Fragrant Grace]

@Sleepy24seven

There is no such thing as a Christian gay lifestyle
If there was then surely there would be testimonies of heterosexuals being delivered from a straight lifestyle into a gay one

Homosexuals who are truly saved experience wonderful deliverance from this abomination

There are some wonderful testimonies of this (see below)

My struggle was very much a secret one | testimonies.com.au - christian testimonies & life experiences

Musician delivered from homosexuality, happily married for 29 years | God Reports

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God
Romans 12:1-2

 

[RJ]

I will say this because of the persecuted homosexuals who practice the faith

Dear, @Sleepy24seven, yours is a non-Biblical stance that is also falsely promoted by the Liberal / Progressive movement into the church. It is based solely on love and acceptance, which is wonderful but leads to a false premise about the practicing homosexual. When the Homosexual "practice the faith", as you say,it is a false faith if you still purposely sin: Hebrews 10:26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. This means if you continue to blatantly to sin, Jesus Christ is the only one who could save you, and there remains no further sacrifice for you; you are spiritually dead in your sin.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Homosexuality has been around for a long time, Paul understood it very well--God used Sodom and Gommorah as an example. he will not accept any of the things mentioned at 1Cor 6:9-11 nor Galations 5:19-21--but the majority on earth practice these things.

Mathew 7:12-14 [KJV] 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

@kjw47
Too often it is not justification through Christ Jesus that many seek, rather self-justification, that allows for self-gratification and not self-sacrifice, which would be more in line with the example set by Christ Jesus which we should desire to emulate.

That is why there are more on the road of perdition then the one that leads to glory. Especially as we near the end of days, if we're not already living in them!

Not for your Brother, but a just a general statement. Kinda of thinking out loud.

In providing correction and warning to those whose walk needs straightening, we must use love as the method by which we provide this assistance. For if I were to deviate from the straight and narrow, I too would want it brought to my attention in a loving way, rather than in a condemning one. People are more prone to respond to someone who is able to reflect a sincere concern for ones well being.

Thanks for sharing brother.
C4E

 

[kiwimacahau]

According to the Ezekiel and Jesus, Sodom was destroyed for inhospitality. Ezekiel goes further saying " . . .
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. Ez 16:49 ; As far as the Jude passage goes, the phrase 'Strange Flesh' translated the Greek 'Sarkos Heteras' from which we get heterosexual and appears to be referring to a Jewish legend which intimated that the WOMEN of Sodom were lusting after Angels. Moreover the word 'Homosexual' in the NT appears to have been culturally imposed on the text rather than being a clear translation of it as most of the texts using 'homosexual' were earlier translated to mean 'masturbation.' Further to anyone quoting Romans 1, read Romans 2:1 before starting in on it.

 

[Ophel]

According to the Ezekiel and Jesus, Sodom was destroyed for inhospitality. Ezekiel goes further saying " . . .
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. Ez 16:49 ; As far as the Jude passage goes, the phrase 'Strange Flesh' translated the Greek 'Sarkos Heteras' from which we get heterosexual and appears to be referring to a Jewish legend which intimated that the WOMEN of Sodom were lusting after Angels. Moreover the word 'Homosexual' in the NT appears to have been culturally imposed on the text rather than being a clear translation of it as most of the texts using 'homosexual' were earlier translated to mean 'masturbation.' Further to anyone quoting Romans 1, read Romans 2:1 before starting in on it.

Sorry, but that is just watered-down nonsense.

Jude 1:7-9 (GW)
7 What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them is an example for us of the punishment of eternal fire. The people of these cities suffered the same fate that God’s people and the angels did, because they committed sexual sins and engaged in homosexual activities.

8 Yet, in a similar way, the people who slipped in among you are dreamers. They contaminate their bodies with sin, reject the Lord’s authority, and insult his glory.


We have the same kind of dreamers infiltrating our churches (and Christian forums) today.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

According to the Ezekiel and Jesus, Sodom was destroyed for inhospitality. Ezekiel goes further saying " . . .
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. Ez 16:49 ; As far as the Jude passage goes, the phrase 'Strange Flesh' translated the Greek 'Sarkos Heteras' from which we get heterosexual and appears to be referring to a Jewish legend which intimated that the WOMEN of Sodom were lusting after Angels. Moreover the word 'Homosexual' in the NT appears to have been culturally imposed on the text rather than being a clear translation of it as most of the texts using 'homosexual' were earlier translated to mean 'masturbation.' Further to anyone quoting Romans 1, read Romans 2:1 before starting in on it.

The word for "homosexual" that is used in the NT is 'Arsenokoitai'. The Apostles used the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament. The Greek translation of the Leviticus passages condemns a man (arseno) lying with (koitai) another man (arseno). Paul joins these two words together into a neologism, a new word, and thus he condemns in 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy what was condemned in Leviticus.

We know that in Leviticus this sin (arsenokoitai) (a man lying with a man) is one of the view sins that are so serious as to command the death penalty.

God lets us know in the NT that this law is still in effect, by stressing it over and over again.

You are right to point out the idolatry which leads to homosexuality, which is spoken of in Romans. Homosexuals are engaged in gender narcissism, blatant idolatry, which causes their perversion.

(I know, i used to be one)