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Porn Again Christian, chapter 3

rizen1

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Porn-Again Christian:
A Frank Discussion on Pornography & Masturbation for God’s Men ( women can read....I did )

by Pastor Mark Driscoll
Mars Hill Church, Seattle.

For anyone you know struggling with this demon.
Re:Lit | Porn Again Christian | eBook by Mark Driscoll

A theology of pornographic lust
As a new Christian in college, I remember having a conversation with another young Christian who frequently viewed pornography and told me that it was okay because he had examined the Bible thoroughly and never saw the word “pornography.” But, he conveniently missed the mountain of verses that speak about lust. This is typical among men who, as Paul says, want to suppress the truth so they can keep on sinning sexually (Rom. 1:18–24).

The purpose of pornography is clearly lust. And, lust for anyone but your wife is condemned by God as a grievous evil repeatedly throughout both the Old and New Testament (e.g., Prov. 6:25; Job 31:1; Matt. 5:28; Col. 3:5; 1 Thess. 4:5; 1 Pet. 4:3). The act of lusting after the unclothed body of a woman is not a sin. The issue is which woman’s unclothed body you are lusting after. If she is your bride, then you are simply making the Song of Songs sing again to God’s glory and your joy. If she is not your bride, then you are simply sinning.

It was God who clothed our mother Eve after her sin, and it is Eve’s daughters who undress themselves for the camera in violation of God’s desire that the female bodies he formed be seen only in their full glory by their husbands. Pornography is so enticing for men because there is a biological connection between a man’s eyes and his genitals that causes men to be easily stimulated visually. Pornography has the sad effect of objectifying people into objects with parts, thereby divorcing a person from their body and consequently diminishing their dignity. One example of this are the frequent references by Tom Leykis, America’s most popular talk radio show host for young men, to women as “toilets” where men go to leave their fluid.

Defining pornography is terribly difficult, as evidenced by the inability of our nation’s Supreme Court to clearly articulate exactly what it is. For the purposes of our study, I do not necessarily include as pornographic such things as nude works of art or a romantic scene in a movie but acknowledge that a major-league pervert can get turned on by anything, as evidenced by the weirdo I knew who got off on the mating scenes of a nature channel. I do include such things as porno movies, magazines, web sites, online filthy sexual chat, trashy romance novels, phone sex with paid operators, explicit movies, lingerie catalogs, and even the swimsuit issues of sports magazines, anything else I have forgotten that some son of Adam finds titillating, and the increasingly base men’s and women’s magazines that show more skin than pornographic magazines did just a few generations ago.

The inclusion of these mainstream magazines may seem extreme in light of our crass culture. Still, we must remember that, in the early 1950s, no stores carried soft pornography; in the 1960s, Playboy was made available out of sight behind the counter; in the 1970s, Penthouse made it next to Playboy on the shelf; and today’s decline has soft and hard pornography available on the magazine rack for perusing by children and adults who pick it up. In our increasingly brazen and desensitized culture, we have to be careful to not define pornography in terms of only harder forms while neglecting the softer forms. As an example, on an international flight I once took, movies with full nudity and sex scenes played on the headrest televisions around me while bored young children looked on. My point? Our culture is becoming increasingly sexualized and it has taken forty years to go from one dirty magazine under the counter at the local convenience store to today where it is expected that junior high boys have at least one nude shot of their junior high girlfriend on their cell phone.

The Bible is emphatically clear that God’s men should abstain from certain sins that war against their souls. First, God’s men should not commit adultery (Ex. 20:14). Second, God’s men should not covet their neighbor’s wife, even if her clothes leave little to the imagination (Ex. 20:17). Third, God’s men should not participate with prostitutes who use their bodies as a commodity to be rented for a good time or a good photo (Prov. 23:26–27; 1 Cor. 6:15–16). Fourth, God’s men should not be polygamous, because their father Adam and Head Jesus each had one bride (Eve and the Church). Fifth, God’s men should not be fornicators who slide their hands, which God made to lift up in prayer (1 Tim. 2:8), up the shirt of their girlfriend, even if she asks (1 Cor. 6:9–13).

However, throughout history men have been prone to obey the letter of the law on these matters, while violating the spirit. The spirit of these Scriptures forbidding sinful sexual practices includes the sins of the mind where men amass a harem rivaling Solomon’s but only in their imaginations.

So, Jesus wisely taught that sexual sins are committed not only in what we do but also in what we think. For example, in Matthew 5:27–28, he taught, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Also, in Mark 7:21–23, Jesus said, “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

Thus, sexual sins are not “out there” in the media, strip club, or gal with low-rise jeans and hi-rise thong. Truly, the problem is “in you.” It is from the sinfulness of your heart that lust and sin proceed like sewage from a culvert. This is the painful, unvarnished truth.

The proliferation of modern counseling is ample evidence that there is much wrong with the human condition. There is an ongoing debate in our age regarding what qualifies as “normal” and “abnormal” behavior, diagnosing why some people behave “abnormally,” and prescribing a “cure” for those abnormalities. Speculative causes for “abnormal” behavior include the unconscious mind filled with primal urges (Sigmund Freud), a collective unconsciousness from our racial history (Carl Jung), our environmental (emotional and physical) conditioning, and lack of self-awareness of our inner goodness (Carl Rogers). All of this, however, is simply a more formalized attempt to, like our father Adam, blame someone or something else for our sin rather than owning it and repenting by having a change of mind that leads to a change of behavior.

In Scripture, however, Jesus is normal and the rest of us are abnormal sinners with indwelling sin. Our individual lives and the corresponding collective lives we call culture are simply the outward reflection of the inner condition of our hearts. The heart is the seat and center of our identities, the essence of our total inner selves that expresses itself outwardly in word and deed. This concept is central to the teachings of Scripture and “heart” and its various forms (e.g., “hearts,” “hard-hearted”) occur over nine hundred times. Practically, this all means that only you and God truly know your heart and, rather than trying to obey legalistic rules, you must be honest about the lusts in your heart and reduce those triggers that stimulate you
 
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That ebook should be read in its entirety by men and women alike (in my opinion)...thank you for sharing this link rizen!

"There is a wall of complacency, complicity, and corruption that has allowed the sex trade to explode recently. Sex trafficking runs by the laws of supply and demand. Demand is generated by thousands of men. Economic, social, cultural, and gender factors make women and girls vulnerable to being exploited as an endless supply"
 
"1 Corinthians 5:9–11, Paul says, “I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality . . . not even to eat with such a one.” Simply, any man who claims to be a Christian but lives in habitual, unrepentant sexual immorality is not fit for Christian friendship and community unless he repents, because he is defiling his friends and the church (the Bride of Christ) with his perversion. The cold hard truth is that ...unless Christian men man up and stop arguing about stupid secondary theological issues and spend their energies holding one another accountable to get dominion over their underwear, then Christian friendship is nothing more than Christian fakery"

Very well said!
 
I've heard it said:


Pornography is a shy man's adultery.


And a brash man commits the physical act.



Seems to fit.. to me.
LoJ
 
Thank you for this. Mark Driscoll is one of my favorite preachers and this subject is something that most preachers won't touch.
 
I needed to hear this. It can be so addictive and make you feel wanted but it is very bad. Women are as trapped as men in this stuff.

ML
 
I recommend reading Every Man's Battle by Stephen Arterburn for those who struggle wit sexual sin.
 
Great post sister Rizen, I think most people in this day and age have seen this in theirs lives to some degree, thanks for sharing!

In Christ,

NC
 
Heeyyy!

I understand the title and the reason behind it but i cannot understand, its usage. Sorry.
But yes this is sad for Christendom in America. I know of two Pastors that HAVE this problem. Men, me to, and women must be on guard in every situation more and more. I dont even watch the commercials on TV. Really. I try to go to the shopping isles that dont have the vagrant magazines. I dont allow myself to be placed in the place of temptation. I fail enough in one day a million times. I dont want to make it a million and one.
 
Meditate on The Holy Spirit, sit and think when you get such lusts sit and think "This is defiling me - the Temple of The Holy Spirit, I can not allow that." We cannot allow ourselves to win. God must win and we must offer ourselves to God and to Christ and ask them to take command of us fully so that we may not sin in such ways.

Amen.
 
I think that there are hidden vaults in the mind, vaults that cannot be accessed by us physically. The only way to rid ourselves of such things is through prayer, devotion, confession and the like.

Pornography is evil and a temptation from the Devil.

I occasionally burn books with my fellow Christians, I find that pornography has a spice-laden smell. It's really subtle so you have to concentrate on it. Otherwise it just smells like smoke and ash.
 
The purpose of pornography is clearly lust. And, lust for anyone but your wife is condemned by God as a grievous evil repeatedly throughout both the Old and New Testament (e.g., Prov. 6:25; Job 31:1; Matt. 5:28; Col. 3:5; 1 Thess. 4:5; 1 Pet. 4:3).


I disagree. Lust, is the propelling drive that kicks into play, thereby causing the symptom, which is pornography, to manifest itself into an acting-out. Lust is not the purpose.

The question should be, what is the cause...and lust is not a cause.

As for the breaking newsflash that Mr. Driscoll is giving us here...well, that is not news to anyone, but it does do a good job of heaping on some more doses of guilt and shame for the perpetrator to have to deal with.


I do not necessarily include as pornographic such things as nude works of art or a romantic scene in a movie but acknowledge that a major-league pervert can get turned on by anything, as evidenced by the weirdo I knew who got off on the mating scenes of a nature channel.

yeah...let's differentiate ourselves from those "sinners"...those "major-league perverts"...those "weirdo's". Nice job Driscoll. And you are what...above them? More holy? Perhaps, Driscoll's been given that "sharper than a two-edged sword", and wields it with all the authority of Christendom?

That's not a sword I would dare pick up. Perhaps Mr. Driscoll ought to reexamine Matthew 7.

1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.



rather than owning it and repenting by having a change of mind that leads to a change of behavior.
rather than trying to obey legalistic rules, you must be honest about the lusts in your heart and reduce those triggers that stimulate you

ahhh..here we go. Answers. The "what to do"!! Yes, that's what I need.

And the answer is: *ta-dah!!!* Yep, you guessed it -- SIN MANAGEMENT!! Oh, that is wonderful.

So...let me get this straight: how does one repent? Mr Driscoll: "by having a changed mind that leads to a change in behavior.

Hmm...so, I repent once I've somehow changed my mind, which would, of course, and inevitably, cause a change of behavior. And why do I do this? SO I CAN, then, REPENT!

Oh...but please, use caution...and don't become legalistic!! No, don't do that. Just do this: BE HONEST with yourself. Yes. Oh, and REDUCE THOSE TRIGGERS. Yeah...that should work well.



I'm sorry for my cynicism here...but this is so against the gospel it isn't even funny.

This is so man-driven, it is doomed to fail. All it can do is perpetuate the guilt and shame cycle.


And rizen1 -- this isn't me speaking out against you...I hope you can accept that. I am just responding to Mr. Driscoll's anti-gospel words, and recommendations.


Mr Driscoll should adopt Nike's motto: JUST DO IT! That seems to be what he is recommending. (and if we do it...and do it well...we can then go to the foot of the cross for repentance, and hopefully be accepted)

Anyone else see the terribly bad theology in this?? This is not the gospel, friends.
 
[/COLOR]

ahhh..here we go. Answers. The "what to do"!! Yes, that's what I need.

And the answer is: *ta-dah!!!* Yep, you guessed it -- SIN MANAGEMENT!! Oh, that is wonderful.

So...let me get this straight: how does one repent? Mr Driscoll: "by having a changed mind that leads to a change in behavior.

Hmm...so, I repent once I've somehow changed my mind, which would, of course, and inevitably, cause a change of behavior. And why do I do this? SO I CAN, then, REPENT!

Oh...but please, use caution...and don't become legalistic!! No, don't do that. Just do this: BE HONEST with yourself. Yes. Oh, and REDUCE THOSE TRIGGERS. Yeah...that should work well.



I'm sorry for my cynicism here...but this is so against the gospel it isn't even funny.

This is so man-driven, it is doomed to fail. All it can do is perpetuate the guilt and shame cycle.


And rizen1 -- this isn't me speaking out against you...I hope you can accept that. I am just responding to Mr. Driscoll's anti-gospel words, and recommendations.


Mr Driscoll should adopt Nike's motto: JUST DO IT! That seems to be what he is recommending. (and if we do it...and do it well...we can then go to the foot of the cross for repentance, and hopefully be accepted)

Anyone else see the terribly bad theology in this?? This is not the gospel, friends.

ROM 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern
of this world, but be transformed by the renewing
of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and
perfect will.

We can't do it, but with God we can. We must not depend on our own
strength, for it is weak. Transforming into a new creature does not happen
overnight. We must always have our eyes on God, and slowly but surely,
the transformation will take place. We will still stumble and fall, but the thing
that makes followers of God unique from others, is that we have His hand to
reach down and pick us back up, again following His path. Many will want
to stay in the dirt, thinking they are too sinful to be helped, and others
don't want to be helped, enjoying their lifestyle. But God does not let
go of us. We simply have to accept that help, and work hard to overcome
the sin.
 
I needed to hear this. It can be so addictive and make you feel wanted but it is very bad. Women are as trapped as men in this stuff.

ML

I have not had an addiction to pornography, but I have
an addiction to my complexion. I think I am ugly, that I am not
as pretty as other girls around me, despite my boyfriend telling
me not to compare myself to other girls. We have been together almost 2 years now. He always tells me he loves me, and when I read the Bible, Jesus always tells me He loves me also. So why then, do I feel the need to think I am ugly or a waste of space?

Because I want to feel wanted. My childhood and friends constantly leaving my life make me feel like I am not worth it.
I stopped wearing make-up for quite a long time, and recently, started wearing it again. It would not be a big deal, and I used to wear it for fun. But it just fuels my ugly thoughts. I am constantly asking Jesus to show me His love, to show me He sees me, and loves to talk to me. I am beginning to think
less about it, and have now begun to accept compliments, which used to be hard for me. Like I said in my previous post, things don't just happen with a firework show overnight. But then, Jesus was always patient to make things perfect.
 
We simply have to accept that help, and work hard to overcome the sin.

Yes, we have to accept that help.

No, we don't have to work hard to overcome the sin.

This is a fools errand. We cannot overcome the sin - the sin is stronger than us. Only in and through Christ can we have a chance against sin.
 
Yes, we have to accept that help.

No, we don't have to work hard to overcome the sin.

This is a fools errand. We cannot overcome the sin - the sin is stronger than us. Only in and through Christ can we have a chance against sin.

Yes, but I did post
We can't do it, but with God we can. We must not depend on our own
strength, for it is weak. Transforming into a new creature does not happen
overnight. We must always have our eyes on God, and slowly but surely,
the transformation will take place.

You took that one sentence which was part of a whole paragraph making
that same point out of context.
 
did I take it out of context dannibear? Perhaps I did, and you didn't mean it in the way it seemed to read. If so, I apologize for that.

That said, I consider the idea of relying on God and "work[ing] hard to overcome the sin", to be completely opposite modes-of-operating. I consider them to be mutually exclusive. I don't believe that you can do both, at the same time. I believe to do one, is to - inherently - reject the other.

So, again, I apologize if I took something out of context. I just can't reconcile the idea of relying on God, with working hard. I have found that the harder I work, the farther I am from redemption, restoration, and healing...and the more I am rejecting what He has done for me on the cross.
 
did I take it out of context dannibear? Perhaps I did, and you didn't mean it in the way it seemed to read. If so, I apologize for that.

That said, I consider the idea of relying on God and "work[ing] hard to overcome the sin", to be completely opposite modes-of-operating. I consider them to be mutually exclusive. I don't believe that you can do both, at the same time. I believe to do one, is to - inherently - reject the other.

So, again, I apologize if I took something out of context. I just can't reconcile the idea of relying on God, with working hard. I have found that the harder I work, the farther I am from redemption, restoration, and healing...and the more I am rejecting what He has done for me on the cross.

I understand where you are coming from. I think it is me wording my own thoughts wrong. And I am starting to see the connection of the two also. Hm...ugh I know what you are talking about, I can't word it right. :giggle: LOL. Maybe my grandpa had a reason to force me to get me a job, summer is eating at my intelligence and vocabulary bank! xD
 
This thread is a bunch of self-righteous, rule-following, judgemental anti-Christian statements.

We are not to judge what others do, but only to point out God's love for them and other ways and choices that they can make. Not because it is wrong, but because they will have better lives because of it.

I have on purpose watched porn of every type, probably more than a porn addict would watch, and certainly a greater variety than an addict watches. I have statistically calculated various things, and written articles about it. I have talked to porn actors about their lives, and written about it.

These judgemental statements in this thread are horrifying, and about as contrary to the teachings of Christ as I can imagine. As anyone with an ounce of logical rationality can see, there is not one iota of evidence that Jesus ever condemned people in a personal encounter with the kind of language I see in this thread, nor did St. Paul ever report the value of this kind of self-righteous rhetoric.

Connect with these people, see what their needs are, and help them meet these needs in righteous ways without condemning them. Not once did Jesus tell someone to stop sinning until AFTER he had dealt with their real-life pain. That's what we are called to do.
 
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