Porn Again Christian, chapter 3

[s.i.e.]

I understand where you are coming from. I think it is me wording my own thoughts wrong. And I am starting to see the connection of the two also. Hm...ugh I know what you are talking about, I can't word it right. :giggle: LOL. Maybe my grandpa had a reason to force me to get me a job, summer is eating at my intelligence and vocabulary bank! xD

hey dannibear -- please, allow me to apologize here. I was speaking out of my frustration on the issue, and how/what Driscoll said in the OP, and didn't mean to direct any of that towards you. It seems you're believing you did a poor job of communicating. That wasn't my intent to cause you to feel that way. You were very communicative, and you should feel good about that.

Grace and peace to you, dannibear.

 

[Furious_Love]

Take up your cross and follow me is Jesus’ reminder to us all we have to labour to overcome. I once heard it say to view porn has homosexual tendencies attached.

Porn is a battlefield we must guard ourselves against either by denial or the veering of the eyes. Soft porn is all around us tempting us saying ‘Look at Me’ I need you to look at me.

Porn is a defilement of what is made holy. Guard your hearts and minds because the Enemy comes to steal and destroy and lure you to just have one look.

Be diligent and if you fail. Pick up your armour once again. It’s not over till we are called home, but it does get easier.

 

[my_little_pony]

That said, I consider the idea of relying on God and "work[ing] hard to overcome the sin", to be completely opposite modes-of-operating. I consider them to be mutually exclusive. I don't believe that you can do both, at the same time. I believe to do one, is to - inherently - reject the other.

Hi sie, I slightly disagree with you here. I think our relationship with God is dynamic and he is looking for the overcomers. I agree that we most likely will never be able to completely over come sin and that is what grace is for, but I also believe that grace is there to help us where we fall short.

It's difficult to fall short if we've not even begun to try.

You've used some fairly strong phrases which appear to separate any free will we may have in our relationship with God from what God wants of us. What does "rely on God" mean to you? In the context of our day to day actions, what is God's role meant to be (i.e. "rely on God" and what is our role meant to be (i.e. "rely on God")?

For example, lets say you don't have your own personal internet connection; you must rely on a public cyber cafe. You enter the cafe and you see an available computer up near the front of the shop where, because of it's location, anyone can see what's on the screen.

However, you also notice a couple of free computers at the back of the shop near the wall, where the only way someone could see what is on your computer screen is if they walk all the way to the back wall and look directly at your screen, which is highly unlikely, and even then, you'd have plenty of chance to see them coming and close or hide any open window.

Let's also say that you feel somewhat ***** or tempted by cyber porn. As you scan the room and start to sweat while deliberating on where you should sit down, an attendant casually looks up from his/her desk and suggests the computer at the front of the shop.

Let's pretend that you decide to ignore the attendants suggestion and, "for whatever reason", you decide to go to the computer you've been eying at the very back of the cafe, where no one can see what is on the screen.

But when you get there, you find that someone apparently vomited on the seat and, most likely out of embarrassment, decided not to inform the attendant.

You quickly look to your left and notice another computer. Perfect. you sit down, click the timer button to unlock the comp and open a browser only to find the computer incredibly slow; nothing will open. The little circular indicator just keeps spinning and spinning but nothing happens.

You look to your left and there is one computer remaining on that side of the shop. You quickly move over only to find one of the legs on the chair is broken and you fall down. In frustration, you get up, pick up the chair from the computer station you were at previously, shove the broken chair over with your hip and slam the good chair down in it's place. You move the mouse to stop the screen saver and start your browsing, only to discover the computer is being defragged and is not available for use.

After a short bout of cursing under your breath and squeezing the mouse 'till your knuckles go a bit white, you look back to your right and there, against the far wall you see the last computer with privacy.

You calmly walk over, sit down, click the timer starter and open a browser. The chair is comfortable, the window opens immediately, and the speed is great. You spend the next 3 hours browsing dozens of porn sites.

When you are finally satiated, you walk to the front, pay the attendant and then leave the shop feeling like killing yourself and wondering why God didn't help you to avoid the sin.

So, when you say that you see "relying on God" and "working hard to overcome sin" as being total opposites, what do you mean? Can you give an example?

 

[dannibear]

I have on purpose watched porn of every type, probably more than a porn addict would watch, and certainly a greater variety than an addict watches. I have statistically calculated various things, and written articles about it. I have talked to porn actors about their lives, and written about it.

Jesus did not take part in sin to be able to connect
with the ones He loved. He loved the sinner, not
the sin. He was perfect and holy, without sin.
Yet He love for us is endless. It doesn't make
sense to join in sin and think it is connecting
with people. That is connecting with people
in all the wrong ways.

 

[s.i.e.]

wow my little pony -- that was quite the hypothetical!

What do I mean...and can I give examples, you ask? Well...the battle is in the mind and our hearts, right? So...it's not always so obvious to the either the player, or the fans.

We could start looking at this by using just one thing, and no doubt there are many others...but how about looking at obedience.

Obedience can look like a guy surrendering himself and his own will, because he rather chooses to trust in God. His "reason" for obedience, is trust. The thing that propels him and powers him towards obedience is a faith and trust in God. A belief, that God is good. A "knowing" that God loves him, and has the best, and has a better will/plan for him, than his own.

Obedience can also look like a guy managing his life, and working really hard, to try-try-try to just get his brain to not be attracted to porn. Or, using your hypothetical...to somehow "try" to cause his brain to not be attracted to wanting to go to the back of the computer room to induldge. Again, alcoholics who have gone through AA would call this kind of "managing": white-knuckling it. This mode of operating would believe that our own will, and our own self-control, is enough. "We can do it". "I need to change it". For some folks, they get attracted to the "power of positive thinking". Yeah...that'll do it!! (not) And in all this, we tell ourselves that we're doing this "for Jesus". Right? Because He asks us...so, we "self-discipline" ourselves. We try to "retrain" our self. Perhaps we actively try to squash our desires. Right? We conclude that our desires are the problem. Perhaps we believe they are evil!


As for choice / destiny ---- in the example of obedience, above: both take choice. Both require some sort of movement on our part. We decide in something. In the first case, we decide and choose to actively surrender our will to His, in our belief that He is good. In the latter case, we actively decide and choose to "just do it!!", or "pull ourselves up by our britches", or whatever. And, self-dedeitfully, we believe ourselve to be doing this for Jesus.

The former mode leads towards life and freedom. The latter mode leads towards some version of personal hell, and a lot of heavy loads along the path towards there.


Many things we hear from the pulpets across our nation would teach us towards the latter mode. I mean, in many ways, it sounds good, right? Especially if it can appear to be "Biblical", and Jesus has "asked us". So, we take it on as our job to get our lives together, and fast!!! But this does not lead towards freedom. It leads towards pride, and speaks of a life that has no need for others, or God.

Hope that helps.

 

[my_little_pony]

Hey sie,

Thanks for you response.

We could start looking at this by using just one thing, and no doubt there are many others...but how about looking at obedience.

Yes, I also feel that obedience is a key factor in following God. Thank you for bringing it up.

However...

Obedience can look like a guy surrendering himself and his own will, because he rather chooses to trust in God. His "reason" for obedience, is trust. The thing that propels him and powers him towards obedience is a faith and trust in God. A belief, that God is good. A "knowing" that God loves him, and has the best, and has a better will/plan for him, than his own.

It's not clear to me how you see someone obeying and what it means to "surrender" to God. What do you mean by "surrender" in the context of obeying the commands of Jesus?

This mode of operating would believe that our own will, and our own self-control, is enough.

No, not that it is "enough", but that, without effort, how do we get grace? I mean, ultimately grace belongs to God and he can give it to whomever he wants for any reason he wants, but my reasoning tells me that the point of grace is to help us where we fall short, so that even though we are not perfect, we still have a shot at salvation. But if we don't even try, then then there is nothing to fall short of, and so grace seems unlikely.

It's a bit like the parable of the talents. One guy was too frightened to even try while the other two took a chance and made something out of their opportunities.

we tell ourselves that we're doing this "for Jesus". Right? Because He asks us...so, we "self-discipline" ourselves.

You may be getting into tricky territory with regard to motivations and absolute statements. I assume you are implying here, that "doing it for Jesus" isn't enough or somehow it is an incorrect attitude. Ultimately I feel that "doing it for Jesus" is one of the best attitudes we can have when it comes to disciplines, though I agree that there IS the potential for people to act on some disciplines which Jesus did NOT ask them to do. In those situations, as long as the discipline is not hurting others, I feel God will still honor the "doing it for Jesus" part if the person is expressing genuine faith.

Perhaps we actively try to squash our desires. Right? We conclude that our desires are the problem. Perhaps we believe they are evil!

Well, obviously not all desires are the same. You make it sound like a black/white issue when there are many many shades of gray when it comes to "desires".

For example, I have a desire for soda pop. Do you see that as being in the same class as having a desire to steal soda pop?

The former mode leads towards life and freedom. The latter mode leads towards some version of personal hell, and a lot of heavy loads along the path towards there.

Well, that really depends on what the load is, doesn't it?

 

[s.i.e.]

without effort, how do we get grace? I mean, ultimately grace belongs to God and he can give it to whomever he wants for any reason he wants, but my reasoning tells me that the point of grace is to help us where we fall short, so that even though we are not perfect, we still have a shot at salvation. But if we don't even try, then then there is nothing to fall short of, and so grace seems unlikely.

mylittlepony -- you're spot on. Absolutely. Grace is unlikely. Very unlikely. Scandalous, in fact.

You ask "without effort, how do we get grace"? We don't get grace. That is to say, it is not something that can be acquired, bought, or "gotten". Yes, we need to make a choice for its offer to become realized by us, this is true.

Surrendering? I guess I'm not sure of what part of that you are wanting further explanation on? I view it as a relinquishing of our own will, and our own goals/wants/seeming-needs/plans/control, resulting in an openness and humility and gratitude oriented towards Him. The kind of openness that hinges on our faith and trust in Him, based on belief in His goodness.

As for this idea of "doing things for Jesus"...I'm referring to the kind of "Christian'ized pride" that we so often witness in the Church (at large). You know, along with being a Christian, and living our lives in the entire culture that has developed around that notion, it is viewed by our peers as "good / honorable / righteous" to kind of "do things for Christ". So, what I was referring to above, was relating to that notion of "doing things for Christ", when in fact, much of those things that are being done are either to make ourselves feel like we're doing ok (i.e., we've "checked the box", and given ourselves a star)...or doing it to gain the attention/respect of the Christian culture that floats around us.

So, again, this can be a nuance...because we may self-deceive because they are close first cousins to each other, but it is a world apart when we're actually living our lives in humbly obedience to our Maker, vs "doin' it for God" because we'll either feel better about ourselves or we'll get positive attention from the Christian-circuit. Hope that gives more clarity on what I was trying to say above.

As for desires --- if you really want to get into this, I highly recommend reading The Journey of Desire by John Eldredge. It's a great book. But quickly: lets use your example of havin the desire to steal a soda pop. Is that inherently good or bad?

I don't believe the desire is good, or bad. It just IS. What you do with it, of course, can be life-giving, or life-sucking, and you can cause it to lead towards, or manifest as, sin. So, what drives this desire to steal the soda pop? That's what's important. What drives you. What causes this desire. Where does it eminate from? What are we really wanting? What would that soda pop really get for us? What would it really do for us? How would it make us feel, if we stole it? etc etc.

Again, the desire, in and of itself, is not something you chose, it's just something you felt. Do you view that as evil, or bad?

This thread is on porn. Is the desire -- or, perhaps we can call this temptation -- to view porn inherently good, or bad?

If we call it bad, and squelch it, toss it to the roadside, run it over, and drive away with our smiley feel-good faces, I suggest we miss something. Something big. Something helpful. Something useful. Something that God can use, as "text" to help us see what is really behind the "desire" or "feeling" we can identify with.

The desire isn't bad, or evil. What we do with it, and how we do or don't examine it, can lead towards death. Or life. (which goes full-circle back to your questions about how we "get" grace. Or, how I think about it: how we might find ourselves in the middle of grace)

 

[eddieb]

actually the word where pornography comes from IS in the bible. it is derived from a greek word. its in revelations. i have it in the foot note its in my bible which unfortunately is not with me ATM. i have a bad memory but hopefully later this day i will be at home and remember. at that point i will post again on here or write it down for the next available time to post. the bible DOES speak against pornography. and God CAN and DOES remove the urges to look at said materials and any activitys that go with that.

 

[my_little_pony]

You ask "without effort, how do we get grace"? We don't get grace. That is to say, it is not something that can be acquired, bought, or "gotten".

If you are suggesting that to "get" something means to achieve it by your own merits alone, I can accept that as one way the word can be used. But it is not the only way the word can be used and still retain it's meaning. The context in which I used the word is similar to what it means to "receive".

Surrendering? I guess I'm not sure of what part of that you are wanting further explanation on?

This is what I asked...

It's not clear to me how you see someone obeying and what it means to "surrender" to God. What do you mean by "surrender" in the context of obeying the commands of Jesus?

Al throughout the gospels Jesus taught requirements, gave commands and detailed his expectations for would-be followers in his Kingdom. I'm not talking about man-made doctrines, denominations or church organizations. I'm only talking about the words recorded in the gospels.

How does your understanding of what it means to "surrender" apply to Jesus' expectations of what we should be doing here on Earth, as his followers and according to his teachings?

As for this idea of "doing things for Jesus"...I'm referring to the kind of "Christian'ized pride" that we so often witness in the Church (at large)... So, what I was referring to above, was relating to that notion of "doing things for Christ", when in fact, much of those things that are being done are either to make ourselves feel like we're doing ok (i.e., we've "checked the box", and given ourselves a star)...or doing it to gain the attention/respect of the Christian culture that floats around us.

Thanks for that explanation, s.i.e. It helps me to better understand where you are coming from when it comes to works. I agree with the spirit of what you are communicating here.

However, I think what you are saying is still different to what I am suggesting, when it comes to "obey Jesus". The key word in MY phrase is "Jesus", because the obedience is based on what he actually told us to do as opposed to what men have come up with.

So, if I talk about obeying Jesus, and you respond about the dangers of "doing things for Christ" it sounds confusing because that's not what I am talking about. I think the points you raise about the dangers of religious pride are fair enough and I acknowledge those points.

I suppose, where the two mix, is that Jesus did not clearly forbid or teach against viewing pornography, so you are suggesting that attempts to suppress or control hormonal urges to view sexual activity frustrates the grace of Jesus. Is that right?

In the hypothetical example I listed above, I suggested that God DID intervene several times to help the man (i.e. offer grace) to avoid caving in to viewing adulterous materials. But he won't override our will. Although he may try to help us, he won't make decisions for us and in the end if what we really want is to do the wrong thing, then he will allow us do to that.

It's a bit like the joke about the man stranded on his rooftop in a flood situation. A man rows past in a rowboat offering to assist the stranded man, but he says "no, God will save me". A helicopter flys by and drops a ladder down to him but he says "no, I'm waiting on God to save me". A rowboat paddles past, offering to give him a lift and he repeats the same declaration as before.

Finally, the man is overcome by the flood and drowns. In Heaven, he meets God and complains that he trusted God to save him and he ended up drowning anyway. God says, "what are you talking about? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!!!"

 

[readytogrow]

Obey

At the end of the day, you have to look at these ppl and think where did there lives go bad and wonder what made them have sex for money on camera. Ive seen porn and I think to myself thats someones daughter, son. When you think like that it will help you stop watching it.

Obedience is the key

 

[my_little_pony]

At the end of the day, you have to look at these ppl and think where did there lives go bad and wonder what made them have sex for money on camera.

My guess is that they believe the same as anyone else who uses their time to work for money; they believe they will die without it.

I am reminded of the situation where the pharisees brought the prostitute to Jesus. This situation is similar. Let he who is ready to work for love (as opposed to forcing others to pay us for our help) cast the first stone.

Yeah yeah, I get that the idea of a man or woman participating in fornication for the sake of getting their money is not quite the same as someone painting a house to get their money, BUT...

In both cases, the motive is money. Are the two situations really so different when it comes to motivation for WHY they work?

Waaaaaay up there in Heaven, so far above us, maybe God see's it just a bit different to how we see it, and the particular action we use to get the money is not quite so important as the fact that we are trying so hard to get money in the first place when he told us to do something quite the opposite.

 

[faithfulservant]

This thread is a bunch of self-righteous, rule-following, judgemental anti-Christian statements.

We are not to judge what others do, but only to point out God's love for them and other ways and choices that they can make. Not because it is wrong, but because they will have better lives because of it.

I have on purpose watched porn of every type, probably more than a porn addict would watch, and certainly a greater variety than an addict watches. I have statistically calculated various things, and written articles about it. I have talked to porn actors about their lives, and written about it.

These judgemental statements in this thread are horrifying, and about as contrary to the teachings of Christ as I can imagine. As anyone with an ounce of logical rationality can see, there is not one iota of evidence that Jesus ever condemned people in a personal encounter with the kind of language I see in this thread, nor did St. Paul ever report the value of this kind of self-righteous rhetoric.

Connect with these people, see what their needs are, and help them meet these needs in righteous ways without condemning them. Not once did Jesus tell someone to stop sinning until AFTER he had dealt with their real-life pain. That's what we are called to do.

Please, if you are going to talk about the teachings of Christ, please lay out His words, not your emotionally charged accusations.

Let God speak to these matters with His scripture. If you find that you cannot back what you are saying with His word, perhaps you should rethink how you reprove and rebuke on the internet.

Otherwise, I would love to see whatever journal articles you have on the pornography industry. What exactly have you "calculated?" Any links to your studies or writings would be appreciated.

 

[s.i.e.]

My guess is that they believe the same as anyone else who uses their time to work for money; they believe they will die without it.

I am reminded of the situation where the pharisees brought the prostitute to Jesus. This situation is similar. Let he who is ready to work for love (as opposed to forcing others to pay us for our help) cast the first stone.

Yeah yeah, I get that the idea of a man or woman participating in fornication for the sake of getting their money is not quite the same as someone painting a house to get their money, BUT...

In both cases, the motive is money. Are the two situations really so different when it comes to motivation for WHY they work?

Waaaaaay up there in Heaven, so far above us, maybe God see's it just a bit different to how we see it, and the particular action we use to get the money is not quite so important as the fact that we are trying so hard to get money in the first place when he told us to do something quite the opposite.

That is a really important point, mylittlepony. Thanks for making it.


I would also observe, that this same point --- from the perspective of an addict --- can also be used as fodder to continue to justify or diminish the importance of the act itself. I agree with what you're saying about how God may view this...but if it's really all about the motive, then what actions do matter?

(****...I don't mean to lead us into what could get into a circular discussion about the ying-and-yang of motives-vs-actions, etc! Anyways, you know what I mean?)

 

[my_little_pony]

hey sie

can also be used as fodder to continue to justify or diminish the importance of the act itself. I agree with what you're saying about how God may view this...but if it's really all about the motive, then what actions do matter?

Fair enough. I definitely do not think pornography or prostitution is okay, neither drug addiction and I think people should NOT be looking for ways to justify these things on the basis of convenient doctrines or technicalities.

I think, though, that you've answered you own question within the paragraph. You talk about "justifying". That is an important distinction when it comes to motives and actions.

Most often, our wrong actions can be justified by a good motive simply because we don't know or understand what we are doing wrong.

But if a time comes when we DO get some understanding that we are doing something wrong and we continue doing it, for whatever reason, then the motive becomes suspect.

It's just, I think it's good to take a long, hard, healthy look at our own motivations for why we support OR disagree with any particular stance and then try to compare that position with an honest look at how Jesus may have dealt with it.

 

[Beans]

Hi Pony. Like s.i.e, I think you made a good point.

I think it's strange how people ignore really horrendous jobs that people do to get money, but they think that it is more immoral to be a porn star. Things like creating/profiting from wars, or selling weapons that kill people, or forcing sick and dying people to pay hugely inflated prices for medicines that would save their lives. These types of things seem much more immoral that the porn industry in a lot of ways.
But having said that, I do think the porn industry is immoral and I think it is horrible the way young men and women get trapped into it because they are looking for easy money or a way to escape bad situations at home. It's really tragic.

I also agree with the sentiment expressed by readytogrow, that if you think about the fact that they are someone's son or daughter (or even yours) then that is a real turn off and will help you stay away from it. Also I think that if you "take care of business" yourself before you get too tempted it will help you immensely.

Beans

 

[Arnold J.Rimmer]

Over 3800 views as of this moment. One wonders why, on this otherwise scarcely surfed forum, this topic has generated so much attention.

Nowadays, one only has to hit a few keys on one's computer to release a flood of explicit images and videos of such a breathtaking variety that no desire, no matter how exotic or esoteric, remains unfulfilled.

When I was a youngster, we didn't have access to all this entertainment that has gotten so many here so hot and bothered.

But I do remember that the clothing catalogs my mother used to have contained images of women modeling underwear. I hope I am not overstepping the boundaries of this forum when I say that these catalogs, designed as they were to sell clothing, served the same purpose as the far more racy images that were purveyed, later, by the shops that rented videos, and now, the world wide web.

The point I am getting to is that pornography can take many forms, but at its root it consists of imagery which stimulates our urge to reproduce.

It may behoove us to realize that we share this urge to procreate with all of creation.

Some here seem to imagine that we can turn off this urge at will. To these people I'd suggest to blow the dust off those high-school biology textbooks and give them another read.

We are creatures who seek pleasure. It seems to me that the best course of action is to embrace this fact and work with it.

Arnold

 

[Rockerduck]

Over 3800 views as of this moment. One wonders why, on this otherwise scarcely surfed forum, this topic has generated so much attention.

Nowadays, one only has to hit a few keys on one's computer to release a flood of explicit images and videos of such a breathtaking variety that no desire, no matter how exotic or esoteric, remains unfulfilled.

When I was a youngster, we didn't have access to all this entertainment that has gotten so many here so hot and bothered.

But I do remember that the clothing catalogs my mother used to have contained images of women modeling underwear. I hope I am not overstepping the boundaries of this forum when I say that these catalogs, designed as they were to sell clothing, served the same purpose as the far more racy images that were purveyed, later, by the shops that rented videos, and now, the world wide web.

The point I am getting to is that pornography can take many forms, but at its root it consists of imagery which stimulates our urge to reproduce.

It may behoove us to realize that we share this urge to procreate with all of creation.

Some here seem to imagine that we can turn off this urge at will. To these people I'd suggest to blow the dust off those high-school biology textbooks and give them another read.

We are creatures who seek pleasure. It seems to me that the best course of action is to embrace this fact and work with it.

Arnold

I've heard the " go with the flow" philosophy for a long time. Before my salvation I did the sex,drugs, and rock&roll thing. It is another thing to pursue worldly pleasures that lead to destruction after receiving the Holy Spirit. Christian's aren't sinless, they just sin less.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Greetings,
i am not speaking to any one person in particular, but only relating what i know to be True for me and what God has revealed to me. Even though i use to desire to look at porn, i know that if i continue to look at porn, i will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, for no fornicator or adulterer shall be taken up with Him. Any person who looks upon another to lust after that person commits adultery, unless it is your spouse. i know if i look at porn, i will lust, and commit adultery by doing so. If i could not cease from looking at pornography, i would do whatever it took to stop. Tell spouse, get help, get rid of the computer, whatever it took to cease, because i know if i continue to look at porn and do not cease to look at porn, (even though i repent of it) i will still be considered an adulterer, because i failed to overcome looking at porn, i failed to find the path out of it which God has provided me. And i know there is no temptation that is so strong that i can't handle it as it is written. Jesus helped me to cease, He will also help you, and He will give you the Strength and power to do so, but you first must want to STOP. Those who Truly repent of looking at porn, no longer continue to look at porn. If you were Truly sorry for looking at porn, you would cease to look at porn. If a man continues to beat his wife every night, but afterward repents of it every night, how sorry is he, if he continues to bean his wife? Only a Truly repentant heart receives True repentance. Anyone can say "Father forgive me of _________" But if they continue to do _________. How sorry are they?

Those who truly want to quit looking at porn, will indeed find a way to do so, and with the help of the Holy Spirit and Jesus it can be done. If you do not cease to look at porn, but continue to look at it being an adulterer, it is not like i have not warned you about it, that Heaven is at stake here, and that Scriptures are CLEAR, that no adulterer will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

If a person steals, and they continue to steal, and they do not cease to steal, no matter how many time they repent of their stealing, on Judgement Day they will be judged as a thief, because they steal. And no thief will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven

If a person lies, and they continue to lie, and they do not cease to lie, no matter how many time they repent of their lying, on Judgement Day they will be judged as a liar, because they lie. And no liar will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven

If a person looks at porn, and they continue to look at porn, and they do not cease to look at porn, no matter how many time they repent of their looking at porn, on Judgement Day they will be judged as an adulterer, because they lust after others who are not their spouse. And no adulterer will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven

If i can cease to look at porn, you can too. i looked to Christ to help me, when i was tempted, i prayed or read the Bible, or called a fellow christian. After you quit it gets easier, now i have no desire at all to look at that filth, He has taken it away from me. He will you too if you have that problem.

 

[maccauk11]

i have struggled with mastabation since i was 12 years old. I think emotional immaturity has something to do with it. It rears it ugly head ever so often even though im 51 now.

 

[Beans]

I'm not sure that masturbation per se, is immoral. I think porn is (because you are looking at real people, doing real stuff), but it seems to me that masturbation is a legitimate outlet for sexual tension that does not involve having sex with anybody, which is VERY important if you are single and do not believe in sex before marriage!
Some people say that masturbation is immoral because you are "committing adultery in your heart", but I think there is a difference between being sexually aroused by a non directed fantasy and fantasising about a specific person (which, imo, is committing adultery in your heart). So I think if you are careful it is possible to masturbate without sinning.
In fact I think that masturbating can actually keep you out of trouble when real live temptation comes calling. It's not safe to be walking around with a "loaded gun", if you know what I mean!
Regards. Beans