Praying for the Dead?

[Brother-Paul]

We should give thanks for the dead we knew and loved, we should also give thanks for all lives lost in wars, whom we don’t know; we will remember them.

But we should know the boundaries we can pray to the Father through Jesus about. We certainly should not be praying for their salvation, at last breath their destiny is sealed.

It is not wrong to give thanks for the lives of those we loved, they are still in our heart.

I believe we can pray we hope to meet them again in heaven, but they had to be saved before they died and we have to ensure we are saved and remain on the narrow road to obtain our promise of salvation.

In His Love

Paul

 

[Brother-Paul]

A message I recently shared elsewhere

THOSE WHO MOURN DESERVE TO HEAR THE TRUTH, WITH COMPASSION AND LOVE

Why then do so many preachers read the following words from scripture at funerals?

In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
John 14:2-4

WHY IS IT WRONG to read the above scripture, as quoted, to a group of mourners. Let us consider the situation together?

The person who has taken their last breath, cannot hear what is being preached, they took their last breath and their destiny is sealed. The person may be known to the preacher, the person may be born again, he or she may have been a follower of Jesus, a person who obeyed Jesus commands. But the preacher is not preaching the message to the dead but the living.

THE MOURNERS could be members of a fellowship group, but as with most funerals, family and friends, from near or far, may also be at the service of mourning, this must be considered.

Unless a preacher knows all souls are saved, and he never can, these verses, on their own, do not give the true picture, therefore by reading the above verses, the preacher is giving the impression, that all those who are listening, saved or unsaved, have a place being prepared for them when they die and the place being prepared is with the Lord in heaven.

WE KNOW from John 14, that Jesus was talking to his disciples, he was talking to true believers, to his followers, it is therefore clear, he was NOT talking to the world, those who do not believe, or are not Jesus followers, who are not born again from above. The following verses confirm this without doubt.

THOMAS said to Him, “Lord, WE do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5-6

WE MUST THEREFORE ASK THE QUESTION, is it right to read this scripture, to a group of mourners, where some are not believers of Jesus, who do not follow him and obey his commands?

The answer is Yes and No!

How can that be after what we have discussed the above together?

By quite simply making clear to all who are listening ‘The following message I read to you now, is from Jesus to His followers, his disciples, to all who are born again, to those who follow him and obey his commands’

We must either make clear, to those who are listening, who Jesus was/is talking to, or do not say it at all.

It is more compassionate to make things clear, than to misguide people who are not saved to think, when they die, a place has been prepared for them in heaven. The devil loves it when it is not made clear and unsaved souls go away thinking they too have a place in heaven prepared for them.

In His Love

Brother Paul

 

[MedicBravo]

I tend to agree with you, but Episcopals/Anglican's/CoE have priests, but consider themselves Protestant.
Some Lutheran churches (mostly ELCA) also have priests. They also consider themselves Protestant.

That is part of the problem. Too many "denominations". Flawed people thinking they can cherry pick and create their own groups.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I tend to agree with you, but Episcopals/Anglican's/CoE have priests, but consider themselves Protestant.
Some Lutheran churches (mostly ELCA) also have priests. They also consider themselves Protestant.

ALL Christians are "Priests":
1Pe 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

[MedicBravo]

ALL Christians are "Priests":
1Pe 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

I agree but let me clarify.
I'm talking about the Catholic priests with their costly garments, expensive "relics", rituals (like pagan), among other things.
There is no such commandments for what they do.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I agree but let me clarify.
I'm talking about the Catholic priests with their costly garments, expensive "relics", rituals (like pagan), among other things.
There is no such commandments for what they do.

I.E the Nicolaitans (the priesthood dominating the People) Rev 2:6 - 2:15. God's not too fond of 'em either.

 

[Brother-Paul]

ALL Christians are "Priests":
1Pe 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Greetings Bob

So true, scripture confirms this clearly, Praise the Lord.

The question that would come before this is, what Is a Christian? There are many in the world think they are Christians, we even hear the words, a Christian country. There also many go to various places of worship weekly who think they are Christians, they are not baptised, they were christened, they are not born again of water through baptism, and the Spirit , born again from above. They will therefore not see and not enter the Kingdom of God, yet they call themselves Christians. We can call ourselves what ever we wish, what God calls us and knows is what really matters.

In His Love

Paul

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Greetings Bob

So true, scripture confirms this clearly, Praise the Lord.

The question that would come before this is, what Is a Christian?

Ignoring all the Peripheral, Ritualistic, Procedural, and Ceremonial issues: A "Christian" is one who has been CONVICTED of their SIN, and has repented, and called upon God IN FAITH (gifted by God Eph 2,8,9) that the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross cleanses them from SIN. As a result the Holy Spirit is now IN them, and they are being progressively conformed to the Image of Christ in their lives as they mature in the Faith.

Of course the U.S.A. WAS NEVER a "Christian Country" (that would be totally unconstitutional), and Biblical consideration CAN NOT be the basis of any laws enacted by our Government.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Ignoring all the Peripheral, Ritualistic, Procedural, and Ceremonial issues: A "Christian" is one who has been CONVICTED of their SIN, and has repented, and called upon God IN FAITH (gifted by God Eph 2,8,9) that the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross cleanses them from SIN. As a result the Holy Spirit is now IN them, and they are being progressively conformed to the Image of Christ in their lives as they mature in the Faith.

Of course the U.S.A. WAS NEVER a "Christian Country" (that would be totally unconstitutional), and Biblical consideration CAN NOT be the basis of any laws enacted by our Government.

Greetings Bob,

Yes brother, convicted, repented, submitted, born again of water through baptism and the Spirit from above.

But there are many, sadly, who think they are a Christian because they think they are in a Christian country, as they are classed by some. Or because they have been wrongly taught, usually a denominational issue, which can and does include people who go to a place of worship regularly but are not born again from above as well, as those who don't.

Denominations are an issue, but God is no fool, the reformation had to happen as the RCC had gone so far of course, but they have not learned by it and some denominations still partly follow the catholic ways. The Lord is certainly not a fool, there are born again Christians in many denominations, more in some, less in others, the ekklesia is the Lord's,He knows who are His.

The other issue is there are many pastors/preachers out there who are not born-again and a religious carers. It wasn't like that in the early church. (pre Constantine era).

Shalom

Brother Paul

 

[joestue]

It wasn't like that in the early church

We really don't know that. Paul mentions some preaching out of selfish ambission.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Basically I agree, suicide is wrong. However, what about if someone is in intolerable pain and misery, through disease or injury? I believe God is merciful and loving. It is not an easy question, nor answer.

I would also add sister, is it by works or grace?

 

[Brother-Paul]

We really don't know that. Paul mentions some preaching out of selfish ambission.

Greetings @joestue

There are a lot of differences between the church in the first 100-150 years and the church today.

Much of the reason the church is like it is today is that people say, that's what we do today.

But to consider this we would have to also say, what is the church, what is the ekklesia?
Many nowadays cannot answer this simple question, well to be fair they can answer it, but does what they say relate to what the ekklesia really is.

I say this in love my friend, as what I put here is true.

Shalom

Paul

 

[Christ4Ever]

There is no way a person can pray "God forgive me. I'm going to kill myself." makes any logical or common sense. That is a very dangerous area suggesting that. The rest of us struggle as well and the thought of it never enters our mind.

That's not necessarily true, but I won't belabor the point that Suicide is not something I would suggest to anyone. Can I say for a surety, not knowing the circumstances, actual facts (how), can I say that a person will not be saved, especially when I couldn't tell you if a person who dies a natural death is! I won't be so bold, because then won't it become a Works based Salvation instead of Grace?

Plus, just a reminder, when do you think "logic or common sense" has to do with a person who is contemplating Suicide? Not at all, I believe.

However, this subject (suicide) is only a side issue and has nothing to do with the original topic. So, I won't delve into it here.

However, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[joestue]

We dont know the motivations of people 1850 years ago when we have but small fragments of what they taught.

Wr don't even know what mark driscols motivations where and we have 30 thousand hours of material to read.

Again Paul mentions some preaching out of selfish ambission.

Therefore there must have been some.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I would also add sister, is it by works or grace?

Greetings old friend

We are saved by Grace through Faith.

We are not saved by works, but we are expected to work!

2 Timothy 4:5
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

John 15
Tells us we are to abide in Christ but also tells us we are to bear fruit, how do we bear fruit by sharing Jesus, sharing the good news, following on as disciples, prayerfully, lovingly we become fishers of men. We cannot bear fruit doing nothing, if we do nothing and don't bear fruit we are given warnings. It is doing the work of an evangelist as 2 Timothy 4:5 tells us.

Bless you

Brother Paul

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brother, @Brother-Paul
Good to see you active here once again my brother.
It has been a while, and yet but a moment!

I hope all has been well with you and yours, at least as well as can be expected in this darkening world!
My prayers go out to our Gracious and Loving God for you, and your loved ones as well!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Brother-Paul]

Basically I agree, suicide is wrong. However, what about if someone is in intolerable pain and misery, through disease or injury? I believe God is merciful and loving. It is not an easy question, nor answer.

Greetings @Christina2000

Is suicide acceptable in God's eyes, for any reason, I reply as one who was a hair thread away many years ago and from scripture.

Scripture first - Thou shalt not kill!

No one has a right to kill, killing self or others. God gives life, God takes it away, thou shalt not kill.

The world has gone crazy and killing is rampant, but we are in the latter days and the birth pangs have started, hearts are hardened, hearts have grown cold, wars are increasing, conflict is everywhere, persecution, betrayal, it is everywhere, in our streets, in our governments, in law!

I live in the UK, not USA. but my heart hurts for our governments; death row (USA), guns, knives, abortion (everywhere) and on it goes. But, as sad as it is we should be thanks God and praising Him, because Jesus told us these things will happen, he referred to the birth pangs, which any lady knows, start gradually, then get more frequent and more intense. Praise the Lord he has told us, we are not to look at the situations in the world except to note God has told us, we are to keep our eyes on Jesus. Because of these things and more mentioned in scripture, worse is coming and we will see more suicides occur.

Suicide is killing, in most other cases it is someone with blood on their hands doing the killing, in suicide it is often the person who takes their own life, whatever the situation, we are told clearly, Thou shalt not kill; to kill is to sin, it is to take a life which God has cretaed.

Life can be hard, I myself am disabled and have many health issues, I suffer pain 24/7, I thank the Lord my wife caught me just before I took my life all those years ago, I suffer pain 24/7 but had learned to live with it, I give thanks in all situations. Jesus did not say this life would be easy, far from it, he says come to me, all ye who are heavy laden..... he will help us, if we put our trust in him.

In His Love

Brother Paul

 

[MedicBravo]

That's not necessarily true, but I won't belabor the point that Suicide is not something I would suggest to anyone. Can I say for a surety, not knowing the circumstances, actual facts (how), can I say that a person will not be saved, especially when I couldn't tell you if a person who dies a natural death is! I won't be so bold, because then won't it become a Works based Salvation instead of Grace?

Plus, just a reminder, when do you think "logic or common sense" has to do with a person who is contemplating Suicide? Not at all, I believe.

However, this subject (suicide) is only a side issue and has nothing to do with the original topic. So, I won't delve into it here.

However, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Step back and think. There are also no "Pre-forgiveness for sins." That does not add up.
You can infer the most likely outcome in anything from what is there and not there.
No sane person's mind is suicidal. Depression is normal but a lower form of mental instability.
I don't pray to/for or "talk" to my dead relatives. Not exact words but, "All prayer and praise are to be to God." There is no Whisper, amendment, and God doesn't stutter.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Dear Brother, @Brother-Paul
Good to see you active here once again my brother.
It has been a while, and yet but a moment!

I hope all has been well with you and yours, at least as well as can be expected in this darkening world!
My prayers go out to our Gracious and Loving God for you, and your loved ones as well!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Jesus loves you brother, I do too \o/

 

[Christina2000]

Greetings @Christina2000

Is suicide acceptable in God's eyes, for any reason, I reply as one who was a hair thread away many years ago and from scripture.

Scripture first - Thou shalt not kill!

No one has a right to kill, killing self or others. God gives life, God takes it away, thou shalt not kill.

The world has gone crazy and killing is rampant, but we are in the latter days and the birth pangs have started, hearts are hardened, hearts have grown cold, wars are increasing, conflict is everywhere, persecution, betrayal, it is everywhere, in our streets, in our governments, in law!

I live in the UK, not USA. but my heart hurts for our governments; death row (USA), guns, knives, abortion (everywhere) and on it goes. But, as sad as it is we should be thanks God and praising Him, because Jesus told us these things will happen, he referred to the birth pangs, which any lady knows, start gradually, then get more frequent and more intense. Praise the Lord he has told us, we are not to look at the situations in the world except to note God has told us, we are to keep our eyes on Jesus. Because of these things and more mentioned in scripture, worse is coming and we will see more suicides occur.

Suicide is killing, in most other cases it is someone with blood on their hands doing the killing, in suicide it is often the person who takes their own life, whatever the situation, we are told clearly, Thou shalt not kill; to kill is to sin, it is to take a life which God has cretaed.

Life can be hard, I myself am disabled and have many health issues, I suffer pain 24/7, I thank the Lord my wife caught me just before I took my life all those years ago, I suffer pain 24/7 but had learned to live with it, I give thanks in all situations. Jesus did not say this life would be easy, far from it, he says come to me, all ye who are heavy laden..... he will help us, if we put our trust in him.

In His Love

Brother Paul