Praying for the Dead?

[Christina2000]

I do agree. It is a very difficult thing as depression clouds thinking. I do believe our God is a loving God.

 

[MedicBravo]

Greetings @Christina2000

Is suicide acceptable in God's eyes, for any reason, I reply as one who was a hair thread away many years ago and from scripture.

Scripture first - Thou shalt not kill!

No one has a right to kill, killing self or others. God gives life, God takes it away, thou shalt not kill.

The world has gone crazy and killing is rampant, but we are in the latter days and the birth pangs have started, hearts are hardened, hearts have grown cold, wars are increasing, conflict is everywhere, persecution, betrayal, it is everywhere, in our streets, in our governments, in law!

I live in the UK, not USA. but my heart hurts for our governments; death row (USA), guns, knives, abortion (everywhere) and on it goes. But, as sad as it is we should be thanks God and praising Him, because Jesus told us these things will happen, he referred to the birth pangs, which any lady knows, start gradually, then get more frequent and more intense. Praise the Lord he has told us, we are not to look at the situations in the world except to note God has told us, we are to keep our eyes on Jesus. Because of these things and more mentioned in scripture, worse is coming and we will see more suicides occur.

Suicide is killing, in most other cases it is someone with blood on their hands doing the killing, in suicide it is often the person who takes their own life, whatever the situation, we are told clearly, Thou shalt not kill; to kill is to sin, it is to take a life which God has cretaed.

Life can be hard, I myself am disabled and have many health issues, I suffer pain 24/7, I thank the Lord my wife caught me just before I took my life all those years ago, I suffer pain 24/7 but had learned to live with it, I give thanks in all situations. Jesus did not say this life would be easy, far from it, he says come to me, all ye who are heavy laden..... he will help us, if we put our trust in him.

In His Love

Brother Paul

To you both....
There is no easy answer. Suicide is never the answer. A permanent solution to a temporary (sometimes very long) problem. It shows God that He is not enough. It shows that people who care for that person are not enough.
IMO, if someone I knew and cared for did it I would be pissed and upset. My circle is small and that is the best. They know they can come to me and vice versa. This also brings up the whole Assisted Suicide thing.
I live with constant pain every day mostly in my lower back. I thank the inventor of Icy Hot, reusable ice packs, and heating blankets daily.
In America, our Judical system is based on Christian values, logic, and common sense. There are many people too evil to leave out in public. If a judge by law sentences someone to die then their actions warrant such a punishment. I'm going to side with the victim(s) every time.
God is the only giver and take of life. To ursurp His role in this is similar to what Lucifer did.
I'm partially disabled. Nothing serious but my hands don't work like they used to. I've adapted.

People have their limits and can have an emotional break to the point of such feelings becoming long-standing (not permanent). The National Suicide hotline is open 24/7. Random people who care for strangers in this are everywhere.
There is simply no scriptural or God support for suicide, pre-repentance for future sins, nor post-dealth repentance for past sins while alive.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

To you both....
There is no easy answer. Suicide is never the answer. A permanent solution to a temporary (sometimes very long) problem. It shows God that He is not enough. It shows that people who care for that person are not enough.
IMO, if someone I knew and cared for did it I would be pissed and upset. My circle is small and that is the best. They know they can come to me and vice versa. This also brings up the whole Assisted Suicide thing.
I live with constant pain every day mostly in my lower back. I thank the inventor of Icy Hot, reusable ice packs, and heating blankets daily.
In America, our Judical system is based on Christian values, logic, and common sense. There are many people too evil to leave out in public. If a judge by law sentences someone to die then their actions warrant such a punishment. I'm going to side with the victim(s) every time.
God is the only giver and take of life. To ursurp His role in this is similar to what Lucifer did.
I'm partially disabled. Nothing serious but my hands don't work like they used to. I've adapted.

People have their limits and can have an emotional break to the point of such feelings becoming long-standing (not permanent). The National Suicide hotline is open 24/7. Random people who care for strangers in this are everywhere.
There is simply no scriptural or God support for suicide, pre-repentance for future sins, nor post-dealth repentance for past sins while alive.

Back in the '60s before I got born again, I was clinically depressed, and suicidal (not "bipolar"), and my Mother told me at the time, that the WORST EFFECT of suicide was that it TRAPPED YOU ETERNALLY in the AGONY that led you to kill yourself. I don't know about the theological support for that - BUT - it did keep me alive long enough to get Born Again, which took suicide off the table, even though I remain with a depressive nature.

 

[MedicBravo]

If you read "Dante's Inferno" the description of "Suicide Forest" which is very low in Hell is quite horrific. It reads like a poem not a typical story.

"The sinners who took their own lives were condemned by King Minos to the Seventh Circle. The souls are transformed into the gnarled, disfigured and brittle trees which comprised this gruesome forest. Each tree was representative of the sinner's own suicide and every tree was different. For example, Bella's tree had a vine wrapped around her neck like a noose, representing how she took her life."

The only visual depiction is in a PS3 game of the same name. Dante is not as his original self but a Holy Warrior for the Catholics. Anywho...
Also:

• The trees screamed when they are struck with the scythe.
• In "The Inferno", Dante describes the Woods of Suicide as consisting of thorny and gnarled trees which are the souls of those who committed suicide. The Harpies tormented the souls by breaking the branches and snapping limbs only to have them grow back again.
• In the original poem, the forest was where not only the suicides were condemned, but also the Profligates (Those who forsook the value of their own goods, much like how the suicides forsook the value of their own bodies) who are chased by wild dogs through the forest.
• In the Inferno, the souls of the suicide trees, in a dark twist of their sin (Violence against themselves) are unable to speak to Dante unless the tree is injured and bleeding. As they ended their lives with physical violence, they now depended on physical violence to communicate. They can only speak for as long as the blood flows. Their original bodies are found in the branches of the tree, but this body is no more than a lifeless corpse.

Not scripture of course but we (humans) are best with visual learning. I'm not taking any chances with myself or anyone else on this.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings @Christina2000

Is suicide acceptable in God's eyes, for any reason, I reply as one who was a hair thread away many years ago and from scripture.

Scripture first - Thou shalt not kill!

No one has a right to kill, killing self or others. God gives life, God takes it away, thou shalt not kill.

The world has gone crazy and killing is rampant, but we are in the latter days and the birth pangs have started, hearts are hardened, hearts have grown cold, wars are increasing, conflict is everywhere, persecution, betrayal, it is everywhere, in our streets, in our governments, in law!

I live in the UK, not USA. but my heart hurts for our governments; death row (USA), guns, knives, abortion (everywhere) and on it goes. But, as sad as it is we should be thanks God and praising Him, because Jesus told us these things will happen, he referred to the birth pangs, which any lady knows, start gradually, then get more frequent and more intense. Praise the Lord he has told us, we are not to look at the situations in the world except to note God has told us, we are to keep our eyes on Jesus. Because of these things and more mentioned in scripture, worse is coming and we will see more suicides occur.

Suicide is killing, in most other cases it is someone with blood on their hands doing the killing, in suicide it is often the person who takes their own life, whatever the situation, we are told clearly, Thou shalt not kill; to kill is to sin, it is to take a life which God has cretaed.

Life can be hard, I myself am disabled and have many health issues, I suffer pain 24/7, I thank the Lord my wife caught me just before I took my life all those years ago, I suffer pain 24/7 but had learned to live with it, I give thanks in all situations. Jesus did not say this life would be easy, far from it, he says come to me, all ye who are heavy laden..... he will help us, if we put our trust in him.

In His Love

Brother Paul

Rereading my message today, I apologise for the errors in the text and spelling. This is typical of what pain can do, it can be hard not to focus on it, that is where the darkness starts, looking on our pain, it drags us down, it makes us feel sorry for ourselves, if we allow it.

Instead we are to give thanks, in ALL situations, if God has given us another day, he has done so for a reason. Onward Christian soldiers, trust in God, keep faith in Jesus, bear fruit even on the cloudy days, we will blossom for God, he will prune us to bear more fruit.

These latter days are going to cause people to look at the news and fear, the news is reporting history, we are looking to the future, in Christ, with Christ.

It is a big Amen from me.

We must never forget, the devil does not want us to come tom Jesus, even after being saved he will do his best for us to fail, suicide is victory for the devil for sure, thou shalt not kill.

Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding, it is the only way, through Jesus who is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Thanks for your understanding

God Bless you, guide you and protect you, and those whom you love, this day and forever. in Jesus Name. Amen

Brother Paul

 

[Brother-Paul]

Back in the '60s before I got born again, I was clinically depressed, and suicidal (not "bipolar"), and my Mother told me at the time, that the WORST EFFECT of suicide was that it TRAPPED YOU ETERNALLY in the AGONY that led you to kill yourself. I don't know about the theological support for that - BUT - it did keep me alive long enough to get Born Again, which took suicide off the table, even though I remain with a depressive nature.

Bless you Bob, the fact you didn't take your life is proof, God had a plan for you, thanks be to God.

Everyone who has been close to suicide will have a different story, but the situation of the mind follows a similar pattern. For me it started with depression, my mind focused on the issues that weighted me down and dragged me down, the black hole I was in got deeper, I would hide in the corner of a room so that no one could see me, if anyone came to the door, I would push myself further in to the corner and out of sight. I am not going to cover the details here for obvious reasons, but what is clear is the black hole got deeper and darker, the mind goes over and over the issues that put us in the hole in the first place. I would at times try get out, I can only describe it like trying to climb a ladder in the hole, but everytime I tried the rungs on the ladder would break and deeper I would go. I found that there comes a time that you sort of get used to the darkness, you sort of get acustom to it, at that point the balance tips like a see-saw, you may as well die, take your life, it is better than facing the world again.

As a born again christian, I would now refer to the darkness as evil, it is certainly, a don't let yourself get there area. The deeper I went, the darker everything got, I now try describe it as like lifting a stone or a rock, as soon as the light shines, you scrabble back into the darkness like the bugs under a stone. The devil has a way of hitting us when weak, he spins a web around us to drag us down and down, away for Jesus, away from the light of the world.

There are warning signs for others but are not often picked up due to our busy lifestyle; a person may becoming less sociable, they hiding away, they avoid going out, they become deep thinkers though the person struggling will try hide it. Look for reasons the person may be worried, there are lots of reason, money, relationships, not coping, issues from the persons past though this is not easy to spot. Spiritual battles is another consideration, it can be either a believer or the none believer, the devil doesn't care one bit, his number one aim is to stop people coming to Christ or break the one who has, suicuide is an ideal option for him.

We are to love one another as Christ loves us, this means watching our loved ones, our friend and those close to us. Children are more vulnerable than every before, don't let the terrible teen years fool you if there could be other issue, it can be disabled people, people told they have life threatening issues, people in debt, people who have lost loved ones, there are so many reason.

Matthew 25:40 (NKJV)
And the King, will answer and say to them,
‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

You probably know of others warning situations Bob.

Bless you my friend

Brother Paul

 

[Brother-Paul]

To you both....
There is no easy answer. Suicide is never the answer. A permanent solution to a temporary (sometimes very long) problem. It shows God that He is not enough. It shows that people who care for that person are not enough.
IMO, if someone I knew and cared for did it I would be pissed and upset. My circle is small and that is the best. They know they can come to me and vice versa. This also brings up the whole Assisted Suicide thing.
I live with constant pain every day mostly in my lower back. I thank the inventor of Icy Hot, reusable ice packs, and heating blankets daily.
In America, our Judical system is based on Christian values, logic, and common sense. There are many people too evil to leave out in public. If a judge by law sentences someone to die then their actions warrant such a punishment. I'm going to side with the victim(s) every time.
God is the only giver and take of life. To ursurp His role in this is similar to what Lucifer did.
I'm partially disabled. Nothing serious but my hands don't work like they used to. I've adapted.

People have their limits and can have an emotional break to the point of such feelings becoming long-standing (not permanent). The National Suicide hotline is open 24/7. Random people who care for strangers in this are everywhere.
There is simply no scriptural or God support for suicide, pre-repentance for future sins, nor post-dealth repentance for past sins while alive.

Bless you my friend, keep the faith...

Proverbs 3:5-6 (NKJV)
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.

Hebrews 12:2 (NKJV)
Look unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,
who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Brother Paul

 

[MedicBravo]

I've never considered it but many have had at least one emotional break and everyone will at some point. It can be very bad per the individual. Realistically, they might not have anyone to help them. God will send people into another's life for a purpose.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I've never considered it but many have had at least one emotional break and everyone will at some point. It can be very bad per the individual. Realistically, they might not have anyone to help them. God will send people into another's life for a purpose.

God can and does send people into peoples lives, thanks be to God.

We are told by our Lord, to help the widows, the orphans, the less fortunate, but if they don't open the door to accept the help!!!

PRAY, PRAY, PRAY in Faith, in Jesus Name

Jesus stands at te door of our heart, but we have to be willing to open it and welcome him in.

Many don't and the door of their heart remains shut!

A gift of any kind can be willingly given, but it also has to be willingly received.

Bless you

 

[MedicBravo]

God can and does send people into peoples lives, thanks be to God.

We are told by our Lord, to help the widows, the orphans, the less fortunate, but if they don't open the door to accept the help!!!

PRAY, PRAY, PRAY in Faith, in Jesus Name

Jesus stands at te door of our heart, but we have to be willing to open it and welcome him in.

Many don't and the door of their heart remains shut!

A gift of any kind can be willingly given, but it also has to be willingly received.

Bless you

Prayer only goes so far. One can pray, pray, pray but without action by self or someone else what real effect does it have?
Talking about God and prayer alone doesn't pay bills, feed people, provide shelter, medical care and so on.
I have 2 things that are part of the core of my life:
There is always a solution to almost any problem. It might not be how I want it and it might take awhile but there is a fix.
Train my mind in keeping a cool, stable mind in all situations. To back that "It is not what goes into a person's mouth that makes him/her unclean but what comes out of it."

 

[Brother-Paul]

The Lord will provide for all our daily needs

We are told to pray for our 'daily' needs, daily.

Give us 'this day' our 'daily' bread.
That is our daily needs. What are our daily needs?
Food and water enough for the next 24 hours, for drinking, washing and cleansing,
sufficient clothing, not extravagant and not a wardrobe full, roof over our head to keep us warm and dry.
Our Daily bread is our daily needs as well as The Word of God.

Jesus said over and over again, O ye of little faith.

You say my friend that 'prayer only goes so far', that is not what my Bible tells me.
Prayer to God, through Jesus Christ, in Jesus Name goes to God, Jesus is the intercessor of all prayers in Faith, tom God through Him. God will answer all prayers, but in His way and in His time. We are promised this but are told we must have Faith. Without Faith we cannot please God, that is the first hurdle. We must have fervent believing prayer and pray in faith believing we will receive what we pray for, which has to be according to God's will.

We are told from the fall, that man will have to work, toil and sweat for food etc. but he gives us dominion over the animals, birds, fish and land. We are not to expect things to just drop from the sky, no no, God provides the way, we are to have faith.

We are also told to be good stewards of what God has given us, and if we have been blessed with excess to share it.

A lot of the issues today, for people of the world and the church, is that things are so different than they were in Jesus time on earth. We currently live in a very materialistic world, wanting more money, to do and buy more things; cars are luxuries, holidays are luxuries, so much of what we do and buy are luxuries.

People also get into issues with relationships, with money, with just about everything, then expect to be bailed out, by God, by the government, by others, yet who got them in the situation in the first place?

These things may sound harsh but that is what it is like today, people no longer seem to save for a rainy day, no, instead they buy, buy, buy, spending to close to what they earn, then the interest rates changes, petrol or diesel costs more, food costs more, etc, etc. It seems it is everybodies fault but theirs.

Who is to blame? That is how the world is today. But it didn't use to be like that in the beginning and it wasn't like it is today in Jesus time.

So we do have to pray but in faith and in accordance with God's Word and His will for us. We do have to work and have to be good stewards of what we have earned and been blessed with. Most of all we have to obey Jesus, grow in Faith, love one another, care for one another, help one another, encourage one another.

Give thanks in all circumstances...

May the good Lord Bless you, guide you and protect you, in Jesus Name Amen

Brother Paul

 

[Christ4Ever]

Step back and think. There are also no "Pre-forgiveness for sins." That does not add up.
You can infer the most likely outcome in anything from what is there and not there.
No sane person's mind is suicidal. Depression is normal but a lower form of mental instability.
I don't pray to/for or "talk" to my dead relatives. Not exact words but, "All prayer and praise are to be to God." There is no Whisper, amendment, and God doesn't stutter.

There is a myriad of ways to commit Suicide. Some quick, some not so much.
I've stated that this topic can overlap with the thread topic, but one really has nothing to do with the other. Also, I will reiterate that it really is not the place for the one you're hanging your hat on.

Glad for the things you don't do.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S. Don't be looking to pick an argument where there is none.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brothers & Sisters in Christ (Posters on Thread)
Not wanting to divert from this particular subject of "Praying for the Dead" into one that can overlap, but also can easily divert from the main topic, I've created a thread in Bible Discussions, with Brother's response to Brother @Brother-Paul and Sister @Christina2000. Post #42.
@Bob Carabbio

I'll also copy over the responses that may have been made to that post as well.
Appreciate your patience and understanding while I get this done.

If you can carry on the discussion there, it would be greatly appreciated. Below is the link to this Thread.

Suicide

Greetings @Christina2000 Is suicide acceptable in God's eyes, for any reason, I reply as one who was a hair thread away many years ago and from scripture. Scripture first - Thou shalt not kill! No one has a right to kill, killing self or others. God gives life, God takes it away, thou shalt...

www.talkjesus.com

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S. - If I've missed some postings to move over, please let me know. Otherwise I'll give it a few minutes, and delete the ones that can be found in Bible Discussions Thread titled "Suicide".
Thank-you for your patience.