Prosperity gospel

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I shant argue the point Bendito. I will let the Lord explain it to you. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, but it becomes a trap to most because most dont have the wisdom to use it responsibly. I pray that all christians would only have enough to survive on with perhaps a little extra, for then they would depend on the Lord more so instead of money. There is plenty of scripture that supports my stance, but I wont bother listing it, if you want to study the matter, its there.

Brad I know you mean well but lets look at several things in this post.
you say it becomes a trap to most because they dont have the wisdom to use it responsibily......
Oh brother what you said here............
If God prospers someone then he has been working in them for some time. He has taught them His ways and in doing so - prevents this from even being a factor brother........you use human reasoning here as if God just goes around dumping fort nox on any which one. lol

Your prayer goes AGAINST the will of God...........
that Christians would only have enough to survive on..........HMM then the following scriptures are there to fill up the book and make it heavier to hold then such as........
Romans 13:8........Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Tell me Brad how can you get out of dept and stay out of dept if you only have just alittle bit to get by on so we can stay humble and money wont ruin us ?

1Peter4:9 Cheerfully share your home with those who need a meal or a place to stay.

Tell me Brad how this can be done if we have just a little or enough to get by on because we dont want any of that wealth for it would destroy us ?
Truth is Brad that the entire written word of God is about Properity for that is Gods will for man. His word is intended on propsering us in every part of our being and this includes and NOT limited to wealth.

There is so much more God says about this - if you feel it is better to be poor or just get by because money will ruin you then - praise God live that way and enjoy it but Please do not insist that this is best for all Christians or even some Christians..........it is oposed to the written word of God bro.......

Have a very Blessed and joyful Thanksgiving
James...................

 

[Ophel]

I shant argue the point Bendito. I will let the Lord explain it to you. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, but it becomes a trap to most because most dont have the wisdom to use it responsibly. I pray that all christians would only have enough to survive on with perhaps a little extra, for then they would depend on the Lord more so instead of money. There is plenty of scripture that supports my stance, but I wont bother listing it, if you want to study the matter, its there.

God is the God of More Than Enough. His will for His children is to experience His kind of prosperity. Why?


2 Corinthians 9:8
And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others.


.

 

[Bendito]

I only responded to you because of the way you put down Brad, a very old and dear friend of mine. His post was pretty much in favor of the poor man Christian whereas yours was arguing more in favor of Christian's being materially rich.

I know what you said and I read the verses you posted. I just wanted both you and whoever else reads this thread to realize that there is a middle ground. You kind of showed it but your words seemed more to me to be a mixed message. The answer always is God Way when the person always is going God's Way, but not too many, if any, seem to be doing that. More people are moving along a mixed pathway, partly on God's path and partly on their own. As their spiritual eyes and ears improve and their obedience to what they see and hear from God improves, they will increase the time spent on God's pathway and decrease the time spent on their own path.

But, there is only One Way to God, the individual pathways He provided are different for different people. They are, or are to be different parts of the Body of Christ with different functions. Some may need to be materially rich while others may need to be materially poor. God knows.

I did not put down Brad...I did come against some silly doctrine though....Brad is my brother whom I love...
Yes his theory is in favor of a poor man Christian... The thing is though There is not supposed to be any poor man Christian...Do you think God cannot bless everyone who will believe His Word? He can... And there is no such thing as people who cannot trust in God's Word...Its a matter of 'Will you believe'

Brad if I offended you I apologize...I am a Word weaver...I speak my mind and I'm not always politically correct like so many people demand... In fact......I try not to be politically correct as I believe it is a demonic thing....So I make no excuse other than to say that I don't ever set out to offend...

 

[Bendito]

I shant argue the point Bendito. I will let the Lord explain it to you. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, but it becomes a trap to most because most dont have the wisdom to use it responsibly. I pray that all christians would only have enough to survive on with perhaps a little extra, for then they would depend on the Lord more so instead of money. There is plenty of scripture that supports my stance, but I wont bother listing it, if you want to study the matter, its there.

LOL I've studied the matter.....That's why I reached the conclusions I posted here. Lots and lots of Word to say God wants us to be able to bless others....
Never has a poor man convinced anyone that they can prosper.
Never has a sick man convinced anyone they can be healed.
Never has a man in bondage convinced anyone they can be free. Etc.

 

[Brad Huber]

And never can pride of self bring about a humble and contrite heart.

 

[Ophel]

And never can pride of self bring about a humble and contrite heart.

Yes, only the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, can bring about humility and repentance from a human will that had come to the mindset that what Satan has ordered for him is all there is for him, all the while believing erroneously that it is God who has set those limitations.


.

 

[Bendito]

And never can pride of self bring about a humble and contrite heart.

Are you saying that a man who refuses God's blessing because he knows better than God is not proud?
Look at this; 2 Corinthians 9:8-15 (CJB)
8 Moreover, God has the power to provide you with every gracious gift in abundance, so that always in every way you will have all you need yourselves and be able to provide abundantly for every good cause — 9 as the Tanakh says,

“He gave generously to the poor;
his tzedakah lasts forever.”a]">[a]

10 He who provides both seed for the planter and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed and increase the harvest of your tzedakah. 11 You will be enriched in every way, so that you can be generous in everything. And through us your generosity will cause people to thank God, 12 because rendering this holy service not only provides for the needs of God’s people, but it also overflows in the many thanks people will be giving to God. 13 In offering this service you prove to these people that you glorify God by actually doing what your acknowledgement of the Good News of the Messiah requires, namely, sharing generously with them and with everyone. 14 And in their prayers for you they will feel a strong affection for you because of how gracious God has been to you. 15 Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!

You're right Brad...It's time to drop that pride. Will you do that today?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

And never can pride of self bring about a humble and contrite heart.

Hi Brad,
I hope your day has been very blessed and joyful. I wanted to ask you exactly why you made this post above ?
I mean what was your motive behind it? Please dont say it speaks for it self or anything likie that. rofl
I am truthfully asking - it could be taken many ways and I for one would simply like to know how you meant it to be used.

It really does not fit into the topic so it must be here to be used for some reason. What is the reason.
Have a wonderful and most Blessed and Joyful Thanksgiving
God Bless
James W

 

[amadeus2]

I did not put down Brad...

Did you not, when you pronounced the word, "horsefeathers" in place of a stronger but very similar word with regard to Brad's post?

I did come against some silly doctrine though....Brad is my brother whom I love...
Yes his theory is in favor of a poor man Christian... The thing is though There is not supposed to be any poor man Christian...

In the world of his flesh, what did Jesus have?

"And :Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

And are we not to be like Him? [I John 3:2]

Do you think God cannot bless everyone who will believe His Word? He can... And there is no such thing as people who cannot trust in God's Word...Its a matter of 'Will you believe'

Must the blessings be material blessings? Sometimes they are, but to presume that they always must be is could be construed as tempting God,

 

[Bendito]

Did you not, when you pronounced the word, "horsefeathers" in place of a stronger but very similar word with regard to Brad's post?



In the world of his flesh, what did Jesus have?

"And :Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

And are we not to be like Him? [I John 3:2]



Must the blessings be material blessings? Sometimes they are, but to presume that they always must be is could be construed as tempting God,

Amadeus I chose the word 'horsefeathers' No other word was competing.
"And :Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

1. 
   
   

Another verse taken out of context....If you're on the road all the time you have no place of your own either to lay your head...Do you really think Jesus was poor?! Why did He need a treasurer? Why did the soldiers roll dice to see who would get his tunic? If He was poor how was he able to pay all the taxes required and the taxes for others? Jesus even had a major trust fund. He was given Gold Frankincense and Myrrh as a baby. That was a very valuable fund...

Jesus had Other people to fund his ministry (Luke 8:3) In Luke 8 certain women supported the ministry of Jesus, and certain women which had been healed of evil spirits of infirmities, Mary called Magdalene out of whom went seven devils, and Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Suzanna, and many others which ministered unto him of their substance. These people supported Jesus because they were grateful for what he had done for them. Jesus did not charge for his divine services for he says freely you have received so freely give, but neither did he refuse support because he knew that his ministry would not only be blessed, but the giver would also receive back again for what they had given (Luke 6:38).
He was not in debt Because Jesus was the word who became flesh and dwelt with mankind (John 1) he kept his own word which by the way is the bible. He said in John 14:6... I am the way the truth (word) and the life,he said in John 17:17 that His word is truth, so we can conclude that Jesus who was sinless kept the word of God 100%. Jesus never allowed himself to become debtor to anyone because his word says to owe no man nothing but to love. Have you ever noticed how hard it is to love people you owe? the bill collectors, phone calls, harassments, etc. Jesus remained free from debt, so that he could be free to love mankind, so much so, that he gave his life. He says greater love hath no man than this, than a man lay down his life for his friends and in referring to himself he says you are my friends if you do whatsoever I command. The Lord will never be indebted to mankind because he says in Proverbs, he that gives to the poor, LENDS to the Lord and that which he hath given will HE PAY HIM AGAIN.

Jesus was not poor because the favor of God was on his life (Luke 2:52)


Favor is more than money, in fact favor can take one where money cannot and it was this ability that was on his life. Favor allowed the miracle of the 5 loaves and 2 fish which multiplied and fed 5000 men. Money would not have helped because they were in a desert place. Money was not needed when Jesus told Peter where to throw his nets again (Luke 5). He caught two boat loads of fish without money.
Jesus was not poor because he was at his place of assignment
There is always provision from God when we are in the place he sends us (Luke 22:35) finds the Disciples provided for when they were where Jesus sent them.

1. Jesus was not poor because he was obedient to the Father, Deut. 28 says if thou will hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God...all these blessings shall come on thee...(for the list of blessings read Deut. 28)
2. Jesus was not poor because he was a giver and the blessing of a giver can be found in Luke 6:38
3. Jesus was not poor because the earth belongs to him anyway, the bible says that the earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof and they that dwell therein
4. Jesus was not poor because he was obedient to the Father, Deut. 28 says if thou will hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God...all these blessings shall come on thee...(for the list of blessings read Deut. 28)
   
   Jesus was not poor because he was a giver and the blessing of a giver can be found in Luke 6:38
   
   Jesus was not poor because the earth belongs to him anyway, the bible says that the earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof and they that dwell therein

• Must the blessings be material blessings? Sometimes they are, but to presume that they always must be is could be construed as tempting God,

• Ok my friend...You tell me how we, living in a material world, can function without material tools? We need material prosperity to work with material people....
  

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Amadeus I chose the word 'horsefeathers' No other word was competing.
"And :Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

1. 
   

Another verse taken out of context....If you're on the road all the time you have no place of your own either to lay your head...Do you really think Jesus was poor?! Why did He need a treasurer? Why did the soldiers roll dice to see who would get his tunic? If He was poor how was he able to pay all the taxes required and the taxes for others? Jesus even had a major trust fund. He was given Gold Frankincense and Myrrh as a baby. That was a very valuable fund...

Jesus had Other people to fund his ministry (Luke 8:3) In Luke 8 certain women supported the ministry of Jesus, and certain women which had been healed of evil spirits of infirmities, Mary called Magdalene out of whom went seven devils, and Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Suzanna, and many others which ministered unto him of their substance. These people supported Jesus because they were grateful for what he had done for them. Jesus did not charge for his divine services for he says freely you have received so freely give, but neither did he refuse support because he knew that his ministry would not only be blessed, but the giver would also receive back again for what they had given (Luke 6:38).
He was not in debt Because Jesus was the word who became flesh and dwelt with mankind (John 1) he kept his own word which by the way is the bible. He said in John 14:6... I am the way the truth (word) and the life,he said in John 17:17 that His word is truth, so we can conclude that Jesus who was sinless kept the word of God 100%. Jesus never allowed himself to become debtor to anyone because his word says to owe no man nothing but to love. Have you ever noticed how hard it is to love people you owe? the bill collectors, phone calls, harassments, etc. Jesus remained free from debt, so that he could be free to love mankind, so much so, that he gave his life. He says greater love hath no man than this, than a man lay down his life for his friends and in referring to himself he says you are my friends if you do whatsoever I command. The Lord will never be indebted to mankind because he says in Proverbs, he that gives to the poor, LENDS to the Lord and that which he hath given will HE PAY HIM AGAIN.

Jesus was not poor because the favor of God was on his life (Luke 2:52)


Favor is more than money, in fact favor can take one where money cannot and it was this ability that was on his life. Favor allowed the miracle of the 5 loaves and 2 fish which multiplied and fed 5000 men. Money would not have helped because they were in a desert place. Money was not needed when Jesus told Peter where to throw his nets again (Luke 5). He caught two boat loads of fish without money.
Jesus was not poor because he was at his place of assignment
There is always provision from God when we are in the place he sends us (Luke 22:35) finds the Disciples provided for when they were where Jesus sent them.

1. 
   
   • Jesus was not poor because he was obedient to the Father, Deut. 28 says if thou will hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God...all these blessings shall come on thee...(for the list of blessings read Deut. 28)
   • Jesus was not poor because he was a giver and the blessing of a giver can be found in Luke 6:38
   • Jesus was not poor because the earth belongs to him anyway, the bible says that the earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof and they that dwell therein
   • Jesus was not poor because he was obedient to the Father, Deut. 28 says if thou will hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God...all these blessings shall come on thee...(for the list of blessings read Deut. 28)
     
     Jesus was not poor because he was a giver and the blessing of a giver can be found in Luke 6:38
     
     Jesus was not poor because the earth belongs to him anyway, the bible says that the earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof and they that dwell therein

• 
  
  • Must the blessings be material blessings? Sometimes they are, but to presume that they always must be is could be construed as tempting God,

• 
  
  • Ok my friend...You tell me how we, living in a material world, can function without material tools? We need material prosperity to work with material people....

1. 
   

Amen my brother amen .......Glory to God I feel like having some church up in here now..........
Hey dont feel bad - I had a very similar situation as this but only my words were Hog Wash......

Shew I feel for any southerner who writes in these here forums.....rofl.
Happy Blessed and Joyful Thanksgiving my Brother
God Bless
James W

 

[Bendito]

Amen my brother amen .......Glory to God I feel like having some church up in here now..........
Hey dont feel bad - I had a very similar situation as this but only my words were Hog Wash......

Shew I feel for any southerner who writes in these here forums.....rofl.
Happy Blessed and Joyful Thanksgiving my Brother
God Bless
James W

Gasp!! You said Hog Wash? Oh How could you? LOL

 

[Brad Huber]

Hi Brad,
I hope your day has been very blessed and joyful. I wanted to ask you exactly why you made this post above ?
I mean what was your motive behind it? Please dont say it speaks for it self or anything likie that. rofl
I am truthfully asking - it could be taken many ways and I for one would simply like to know how you meant it to be used.

It really does not fit into the topic so it must be here to be used for some reason. What is the reason.
Have a wonderful and most Blessed and Joyful Thanksgiving
God Bless
James W

Well James, it speaks for it self.

In post 24, Bendito speaks several "nevers". I responded with a never that spoke to me through the Holy Spirit. I spent over a half an hour trying to be more meticulous about my response, and felt I would be wasting my time, with people who "want" things, and provide scriptures that make them believe that God is our sugar daddy that lavishes coals on our heads if we ask for them. Wealth always brings lots of problems that challenge our morality to follow the path of the humble. Do any of you desire to be humble? Why was the book of Ecclesiastes added to inspired scripture? What is the top 12 general teachings of Proverbs?

 

[Bendito]

Well James, it speaks for it self.

In post 24, Bendito speaks several "nevers". I responded with a never that spoke to me through the Holy Spirit. I spent over a half an hour trying to be more meticulous about my response, and felt I would be wasting my time, with people who "want" things, and provide scriptures that make them believe that God is our sugar daddy that lavishes coals on our heads if we ask for them. Wealth always brings lots of problems that challenge our morality to follow the path of the humble. Do any of you desire to be humble? Why was the book of Ecclesiastes added to inspired scripture? What is the top 12 general teachings of Proverbs?

Being humble means to have a modest opinion of ourselves..Even if you had all the riches of the planet at your behest, you can walk in true humility...Without religion

 

[Brad Huber]

Matthew 19:21-26


21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Why did Jesus even say this if all things are possible with God? Perhaps a warning? Why even ask the man to give it all up if those riches were from God to please the man? Was God wrong to give the man wealth? Was he lying when he said he had done all the things of the law perhaps?

 

[Ophel]

Matthew 19:21-26


21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Why did Jesus even say this if all things are possible with God? Perhaps a warning? Why even ask the man to give it all up if those riches were from God to please the man? Was God wrong to give the man wealth? Was he lying when he said he had done all the things of the law perhaps?

The wealth of the unbeliever is not a blessing from the Father. In fact, the Lord tells us that He takes from the ungodly and gives their wealth to His children.

Ecclesiastes 2:6a
God gives wisdom, knowledge, and joy to those who please him. But if a sinner becomes wealthy, God takes the wealth away and gives it to those who please him.

That Jesus required the young rich man to give up his possessions was not an edict for us, but an indicator that this young man, like some of us, placed his reason for living and all importance in his treasures. Sadly, that is where his heart was. Far too many Christians take this interaction between Jesus and the young rich man as a decree for how we are to live our lives: in lack, or poverty, or in need, financially or materially. That is not how God wants His Kingdom Kids to live.

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others.


.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Well James, it speaks for it self.

In post 24, Bendito speaks several "nevers". I responded with a never that spoke to me through the Holy Spirit. I spent over a half an hour trying to be more meticulous about my response, and felt I would be wasting my time, with people who "want" things, and provide scriptures that make them believe that God is our sugar daddy that lavishes coals on our heads if we ask for them. Wealth always brings lots of problems that challenge our morality to follow the path of the humble. Do any of you desire to be humble? Why was the book of Ecclesiastes added to inspired scripture? What is the top 12 general teachings of Proverbs?

Brad thank you for replying to me. I value this...
Well sir no one has even hinted that God is our sugar daddy all but one and well that person says a lot of things. God tells us a different story and I must add to those who have ears let them hear.

You claim wealth always brings lots of problems..........there is a problem in that thinking sir and better yet the Holy Spirit does not know that nor does the Father who gave us His word. See God teaches us how to live in the Blessing of the Lord. Do you really think there is loack or want in the Blessing sir ? Do you think that those who walk in the blessing are treating God as a sugar daddy sir when it is God who put forth this Blessing in the first place ?

Who taught Joseph how to run a prission or any of the other things that he did ? Why of course it was the blessing..........who taught Joseph to create all that wealth sir ? Why of course it was the blessing.

Who taught david to pick those strings so well that demons would flee ? Yes sir the blessing.

I could go through a dozen pages here writing all the things or ways the blessing of the Lord made rich sir,

Now then you asked why Ecclesiastes was added with inspired scripture - oh sir perhaps it was to show us the wrong way and the correct way. Could it be sir that God wanted us to view how not to do things or say things or even an example of how things are when we do not keep Him and His ways first.

About proverbs sir I beleive you are expecting me to stumble here but all in all sir - they teach us how to strive for Wisdom - Understanding and knowledge. They also teach us about God blessing His own and giving them more then enough but I know you were not talking about those or avoiding in-moral woman...

Brad sir, poverty minded folks never please the Lord - if you feel wealth is so bad and will ruin you then - sir why not beleive for it any way and ask God to give all your wealth to so and so and they can place it back into the kingdom of God in your name. Then you wont be ruined by wealth and yet you can still give back to the work of God and help others as God does teach us to do.

I hope this answer your questions sir - again thank you for replying and allowing me to be a part of this thread.
God Bless you my dear brother
Have a very Blessed and Prosperous Thanksgiving
James W

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Matthew 19:21-26


21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Why did Jesus even say this if all things are possible with God? Perhaps a warning? Why even ask the man to give it all up if those riches were from God to please the man? Was God wrong to give the man wealth? Was he lying when he said he had done all the things of the law perhaps?

Brad, Brad, Brad shaking my head as in no you did not just try and use this bit of scripture to prove your thinking.

Sir Jesus was talking to a man who could have replaced Judas when it was all said and done.
Look at what Jesus asked and said to him. Jesus covered everything but the one thing this man had not HEARD OF.........LOVE - this man never heard love your God with all your heart and soul - this man never heard love your neighbor as your self but unto all the other commandments this man rose above.

Jesus told him this that you quote for a reason.........go fall in love with people......give (love) and then come follow me. But the kid did not understand this............so he walked away..Now he could have said man all you preachers are the same. all you ever want is our money and then said I dont beleive this stuff but never the less you do have the words of Life so I will do it and follow you and could have grumbled up a storm. Jesus needed him and this man passed up the biggest opertunity of his life by walking away......

But sir if you feel Jesus was telling you to be poor to be humble then - no one will force you tobe wealthing.

Oh and to the part of your post I missed at first.........Just because Jesus gives us riches does not mean it is ear-marked to stay in your hands. See those who learn what true biblical prosperity is all about also learn that we give and give and give. We desire to give. Hey look those people over there are about to loose their house - not anay more for it is now paid in full - Yes sir Father - you want me to give this new truck to pastor no truck tonight - Glory to God pastor no truck is going to have a truck and we dont look at it with human reasoning Brad and say no way man then I wont have a truck..........No sir for we know a new one is on the way.

See this is part of the training God puts you through before God is the one who brings wealth into your hands.
I mean now sir - would you just go around and give machine guns to all the kids in the block to proteck you with out first training them ? Before you say that is not the same - ah but wont those machine guns ruin and cause problem in those kids as wealth always does in your thinking ? Yea it is like that......God is smarter then that.
God Bless
James W

 

[Brad Huber]

You are making suppositions and assumptions about the nature of the rich man, and about your ability to avoid the pitfalls that come with wealth. And how do you come by this wealth? I see "how" people, to include people who claim Christ get ahead of their peers, and there is nothing godly about it. The people who get ahead in life without stepping on others along the way, usually do it through creativity and ingenuity. Do you have these qualities in abundance and the motivation to do it for the "right" reasons? Would you be willing to give it all up if Jesus asked "you" to do it, after all your hard work?

 

[amadeus2]

Sorry @Brad Huber , @Ophel , @Wired 4 Fishen , @Bendito , and @ anyone else who was reading or participating in this thread. If I knew it would cause a major dispute. I would have left it alone After all only God gives the increase to any of you or to me. I will call it done for now.