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Questions About Talk Jesus's Statement of Faith

@Bob Carabbio

Now why doesn't every one have this tongue as proof of having received this baptism with the Holy Ghost?

And why do all should if they are already saved thus born again of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ; & not by sight nor by a sign that they are saved?
Act 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
Act 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Jesus told us......

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The people in Samaria "believed" and were "baptised" which Jesus said shall be saved. So these people were born again believers. (born of the Spirit)

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
 
Had you believed in Jesus Christ long before that had happened? And why or how did this baptism in the Holy Spirit happened?

Yup - as I Stated in the post, I was Born Again of the Holy Spirit in 1963 (By Southern Baptist outreach), and was "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" (to use AoG vernacular) in 1973. That occurred at a FGBMFI Meeting where I asked for prayer for the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, and a couple of weeks later, I received tongues, which came into my mind as I spoke them - still do 49 years later. As part of the package, I was burdened many times to Interpret tongues, which was similar, except that the words to speak that came into my mind were English.

when Judas Iscariot got the power & the temporary indwelling of the Holy Ghost because Jesus was with them. None of His remaining disciples were saved until Pentecost.

WRONG!! None of the disciples were EVER "Indwelled by the Holy SPirit until John 20:22, and NONE of them were "Born Again" until after Calvary. What happened was that, as He had with Samson, or Isaiah, the Holy Spirit CAME UPON them to empower them.

[/quote]So the baptism with the Holy Ghost and the born again of the Spirit is the same event, [/quote]

Nope, it's NOT. John 20:22 was the Holy Spirit INDWELLING the disciples, making them Christians, and Acts 2:4 is the Holy Spirit ON the disciples who already were Indwelled by the Holy Spirit..

My concern here is that the phenomenon you had experienced was not of Him

But since it WAS of Him (Whether you believe it or not), there's no reason for concern. It came with signs following - the best one being a solid decade of intense Bible teaching in Home groups of several different denominational backgrounds - straightening out Biblical misconceptions, and being able to teach for hours as the Holy Spirit gave me the things to share, not to speak of the burden to Interpret Tongues, and occasionally to deliver Prophetic Words.

Your paradigm is obviously that of a Cessationist, whereas Mine is that of a Christian, who embraces the Pentecostal/Charismatic mindset.

Hope you can see why I am concern for you guys as you are my brothers.

And so we are IF - you've ever been Born Again by FAITH (gifted by God - Eph2:8,9) in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross. SO no reason for concern. You aren't required to "Speak in tongues" to be Born Again, and if you DON'T WANT all He has for you, that's your decision.
 
Thank you for sharing but still there is contentions.

Jesus referred to the new birth (getting everlasting life) as a "spring of water springing up "inside of a person" unto everlasting life"

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Later Jesus referred to receiving the Holy Spirit that will "flow out of a person" as a river.


Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

I submit that "the spring of water springing up" into everlasting life and "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" is referring to having received the same Holy Spirit at salvation for why there is no more filling of the Holy Spirit but the living water will be flowing out of us for why no believers should be seeking to be filled after having come to & believed in Jesus Christ ( John 6:35 ) for they thirst & hunger no more after salvation has been done; Matthew 9:17

Notice: Jesus did not say that everyone would get this, but that everyone who believes "should receive" it.

But that is not what Jesus has said. In John 7:38 is Jesus referring to that born again of the Spirit moment of our salvation. In John 7:39, when He spoke of the permanent indwelling Spirit, which had not been given yet because Jesus was not glorified yet as having ascended to Heaven, it was whenever they that believe on Him should receive. It did not say this will happen whenever any one believes in the second blessing should receive, but when they believe on Him.

The spring of water inside of a believer is for their own comfort (the comforter). It is the Holy Spirit inside of a person who is the inner witness that we are children of God.

The river that flows out of a person who is baptized in the Holy Spirit is not for their own comfort is for the comforting of other people. The outflowing water is for being able to minister to others.

Ever saved believer is an able minister and does not require another drink of the One Spirit to achieve that to be able to minister to others. Paul says from the get go since salvation of how we were all baptized into one body after having one drink of the One Spirit so the notion of having another baptism with the Holy Ghost just to get tongues or any gifts of the Spirit is out the door.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Hopefully you can understand why I have contentions because of scripture and why I am concern that believers are trying to fit that extra phenomenon into scripture because they want to believe it is God & that kind of tongue for private use.
 
Remember Jesus said you can not put new wine in old wineskins. You to put new wine in new wineskins. A person needs to be made new first then the new wine is poured inside. After I became born anew (about 50+ years ago) I discovered something I did not know and it was this.

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Still looks like you are trying to fit that phenomenon int scripture. Here is why.

Jesus said verses 11-12 which led to the Father giving the Holy Spirit to those that ask Him in verse 13 after knocking at the door ( Jesus ) per verse 9-10, that once the Father has given the Holy Spirit, they would not ask Him to give the Holy Spirit again, les that makes Him look evil as if He did not give the Holy Spirit the first time at salvation.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

By His grace & by His help, that is how I apply that scripture of verses 11-12 to mean about verse 13.

So when you guys had believed that you can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation, scripture raises my alarm for the believers in seeing them as having fallen from the faith & thus has gone astray. It would be the same as Christians seeking to receive spirits after a sign like mediums do, because this phenomenon does not stop there at the "second blessing" but is continuous afterwards for other sensational signs in the flesh as found in Khundalini.

Although those who believe in the second blessing do not believe in slain in the spirit & holy laughter movement to be of God, they can lose self control & fall by that phenomenon if they try to stop it. Indeed, they address the Holy Spirit and believed the Holy Spirit is coming to fall on them and then it happened and so how can anyone of the second blessing stop it when that second blessing came about by that same evil tree of believing the lie you can receive the Holy Spirit again?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-15 Verses 13-15 exposes the lie in verses 9-12 as believing one can receive the Holy Spirit again when the tradition taught of us that it can only happen at the calling of the gospel when we had first believed in Him.

The damnation spoken of in verse 12 is being left behind to die when their spirits will be with the Lord ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 ), to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, for not having departed from that iniquity for why they are seen as out in the market still, getting filled before the Bridegroom had come ( Matthew 25:1-13 ) whereas the wise knew they were filled since salvation to be ready to go. I point out that the ten virgins are the kingdom of heaven for why they were all saved, but five were foolish for being found out to the market by that iniquity as the cause for them to be missing the Bridegroom when He had come.
 
Leaving scripture out of quote for easier reading. FYI

Act 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
Act 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Jesus told us......

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The people in Samaria "believed" and were "baptised" which Jesus said shall be saved. So these people were born again believers. (born of the Spirit)

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

You left out verse 16 which is key to understanding that they were only water baptized in His name but they were not saved yet because they never had the Holy Ghost yet, hence not having been born again of the Spirit.

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Discernment is needed and I can explain it with His help as to why they were not saved yet, including Simon, but the truth here is something was not right with these people for why they were not saved yet.

Romans 8: 9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 
"Baptism
We believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (1 Corinthians 14), is for all believers as promised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), Jesus (Acts 1:4-8), and Peter(Acts 2:38-41). The fulfillment of this promise was witnessed by early disciples of Christ (Acts 2:4, 10:44-47, 19:1-6) and operates in many present-day disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. "

Are you saying that every one that gets baptized in the Holy Spirit, will speak in tongues?

Are you saying that if a believer does not speak in tongues, they do not have the Holy Spirit and so they are not saved?

If not, some clarification please, because I cannot see how that can be even partially correct when that would cause division within the body of Christ. It can bring even more hurtful questions.

Should the believer worry because the Holy Spirit is not praying out loud in tongues for them?

Does this mean God does not care about them as much as He does others?

I would suggest first and foremost since we walk by faith and not by sight . What is a sign gift ? Is it the same as a spiritual gift, spirits cannot be seen ?

This includes both mentioned H20 baptism and tongues. Where are we instructed to seek after one ?

2 Corinthians 5:7 KJ For we walk by faith, not by sight:........ Christ' faith that works in us (Philippians 2:13)

2 Corinthians 5:7 EVR We live by what we believe will happen, not by what we can see.

Jesus confirms we walk or understand God by believing .Therefore we edify Him not our own selves in false pride

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Those who sought after signs in effect made Jesus into a circus seal

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Neither using water or words without meaning acknowledges we walk by faith.

Tongues are clearly prophecy , prophesying is clearly declaring the will of God it serves not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Again spiritual signs are not visible to the eye they clearly follow the spiritual gift . The new tongue is the gospel , it if Christ causes the increase can cast out the spirit of lies . If any drink the poison, as false gospel it will not effect them .

Mark 16: 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;(gospel) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Seeing God is not adding to his revealed word for over 2000 years . Tongues as prophecy is limited to the Bible .

Other tongues or languages are made possible by the work of someone giving the interpretation as a translation in other languages or tongues.

Today there are electronic devises for people allowing the understanding of two different languages .
 
Yup - as I Stated in the post, I was Born Again of the Holy Spirit in 1963 (By Southern Baptist outreach), and was "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" (to use AoG vernacular) in 1973. That occurred at a FGBMFI Meeting where I asked for prayer for the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, and a couple of weeks later, I received tongues, which came into my mind as I spoke them - still do 49 years later. As part of the package, I was burdened many times to Interpret tongues, which was similar, except that the words to speak that came into my mind were English.

If you had read my other posts to Curtis by now, then you may understand why I am concern for you for referring to that phenomenon which has been dubbed sometimes as the "second blessing".

WRONG!! None of the disciples were EVER "Indwelled by the Holy SPirit until John 20:22, and NONE of them were "Born Again" until after Calvary. What happened was that, as He had with Samson, or Isaiah, the Holy Spirit CAME UPON them to empower them.

Matthew 10:1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Jesus continues to inform them;

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

That reads to me what He had done to His disciples in the upper room as being given the temporary indwelling of the Holy Ghost in John 20:22 and need I point out that the disciple, Thomas, was not there?

GodB4Us posted "So the baptism with the Holy Ghost and the born again of the Spirit is the same event,"

Nope, it's NOT. John 20:22 was the Holy Spirit INDWELLING the disciples, making them Christians, and Acts 2:4 is the Holy Spirit ON the disciples who already were Indwelled by the Holy Spirit..

That is contrary to scriptures when Jesus said the promise of the holy Ghost would be given by the Father when Jesus was no longer present with them.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Again Jesus said the born again of the Spirit moment was to happen after His ascension when any one believes in Him.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

But since it WAS of Him (Whether you believe it or not), there's no reason for concern. It came with signs following - the best one being a solid decade of intense Bible teaching in Home groups of several different denominational backgrounds - straightening out Biblical misconceptions, and being able to teach for hours as the Holy Spirit gave me the things to share, not to speak of the burden to Interpret Tongues, and occasionally to deliver Prophetic Words.

Sinners in Khundalini have done the same thing in prophesying and what not.


Your paradigm is obviously that of a Cessationist, whereas Mine is that of a Christian, who embraces the Pentecostal/Charismatic mindset.

I believe in the real God's gift of tongues to be a foreign language of men to speak unto the people for why it can never be for private use as Paul gave the bottom line of what tongues were for.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

So what happens when saved believers depart from faith in seeking to receive the holy Spirit by a sign of tongues that comes with no interpretation for why they assume it is for private use?

Matthew 12: 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Since holy laughter is happening in all denominations as reported by the 700 Club, that makes this ecumenical in the world as gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

And so we are IF - you've ever been Born Again by FAITH (gifted by God - Eph2:8,9) in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross. SO no reason for concern. You aren't required to "Speak in tongues" to be Born Again, and if you DON'T WANT all He has for you, that's your decision.

How can your comment be convey in Talk Jesus's Statement of Faith of what you have told me?

GodB4Us
Add bookmark Sunday at 7:03 PM #1
This is from the Talk Jesus's Statement of Faith;

"Baptism
We believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (1 Corinthians 14), is for all believers as promised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), Jesus (Acts 1:4-8), and Peter(Acts 2:38-41). The fulfillment of this promise was witnessed by early disciples of Christ (Acts 2:4, 10:44-47, 19:1-6) and operates in many present-day disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. "

Maybe potential members are turning away because what you say does not really say that here? There is no clarification that this baptism is separate from the born gain of the Spirit moment of our salvation.

As it is, I am still in disagreement with you Biblically for why my concern for you & others when I see biblical prophesy about the falling away from the faith by seducing spirits is happening a lot in these latter days where faith is hard to find.
 
I would suggest first and foremost since we walk by faith and not by sight . What is a sign gift ? Is it the same as a spiritual gift, spirits cannot be seen ?

This includes both mentioned H20 baptism and tongues. Where are we instructed to seek after one ?

By the scripture, we can see what happens when a believer gets tongues and so hat is why faith in Jesus Christ for salvation cannot apply to the sign of tongues.

2 Corinthians 5:7 KJ For we walk by faith, not by sight:........ Christ' faith that works in us (Philippians 2:13)

2 Corinthians 5:7 EVR We live by what we believe will happen, not by what we can see.

Jesus confirms we walk or understand God by believing .Therefore we edify Him not our own selves in false pride

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Hence unless believers see the sign of tongues, they will not believe they had received the Holy Ghost again.

Those who sought after signs in effect made Jesus into a circus seal

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

And yet Jesus said this also for those wishing for Him to perform like a circus seal.

Matthew 12: 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Neither using water or words without meaning acknowledges we walk by faith.

As some believe water baptism is necessary for salvation, & others believe by that sign of tongues, the good report is there is no sign other than we believe in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. .... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Tongues are clearly prophecy , prophesying is clearly declaring the will of God it serves not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

We are not children of God by water baptism and neither are we children of God by that sign of tongues. Tongues were only to serve as a sign to unbelievers; not to the believers. Nowhere in Acts did any one preach the gospel of seeking to receiving that promise of the Spirit by that sign of tongues.

Again spiritual signs are not visible to the eye they clearly follow the spiritual gift . The new tongue is the gospel , it if Christ causes the increase can cast out the spirit of lies . If any drink the poison, as false gospel it will not effect them .

Mark 16: 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;(gospel) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Signs following believers is not believers following signs.

As for drinking from a different fountain... believers can fall as a result.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

If they believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again, God will permit that strong delusion to occur for why there is a falling away from the faith in these latter days as this iniquity was happening even in Paul's days.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The iniquity that causes the falling away from the faith will be the means for how this man of sin will unite the sinners into this one world religion of worshiping the beast as "god".

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

So Paul explains the iniquity at work in his day below which is how that man of sin will perform.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Then Paul exposed that lie of believing one can receive the Holy Spirit again, by reminding believers of the tradition taught of us that we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So for an example, if a Christian thinks they can be a medium and contact dead people, guess what? God will permit them to sin against them for suffering a thief to break through as the restraining part of the Holy Spirit will cease even though He still abides. so in regards to the falling away from the faith, if they believe the lie that they can receive Jesus / the Holy Spirit again, then God will permit that strong delusion to occur, & they get tongues but not God's gift of tongues

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Isaiah 8: 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Seeing God is not adding to his revealed word for over 2000 years . Tongues as prophecy is limited to the Bible .

Other tongues or languages are made possible by the work of someone giving the interpretation as a translation in other languages or tongues.

Today there are electronic devises for people allowing the understanding of two different languages .

But not gibberish nonsense for why many believes tongues ae for private use just because it comes without interpretation.

If we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, then God's gift of tongues would never mimic the world's supernatural tongue of being gibberish nonsense.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

As it is, per 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15, the man of sin shall make sinners speak in tongues of gibberish nonsense and unite the world of sinners by that one world religion, because he is doing it already as that tongue is ecumenical, the fruit of the false prophet.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Anyway, I hope in the Lord that I have shared my valid concerns for the body of Christ because God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people to be turned around for private use, makes God the author of confusion which He is not, and so therefore that tongue for private use cannot be of Him and how they gained that tongue cannot be of Him either.
 
Leaving scripture out of quote for easier reading. FYI


Act 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
Act 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.



Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.



Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

You left out verse 16 which is key to understanding that they were only water baptized in His name but they were not saved yet because they never had the Holy Ghost yet, hence not having been born again of the Spirit.

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Discernment is needed and I can explain it with His help as to why they were not saved yet, including Simon, but the truth here is something was not right with these people for why they were not saved yet.

Romans 8: 9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Did you forget Jesus's own words that if you believe and are baptized you shall be saved?
I have never heard of anyone being saved by someone just laying their hands on a person, have you? That is totally unscriptual.
 
Thank you for sharing but still there is contentions.



John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.



Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

I submit that "the spring of water springing up" into everlasting life and "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" is referring to having received the same Holy Spirit at salvation for why there is no more filling of the Holy Spirit but the living water will be flowing out of us for why no believers should be seeking to be filled after having come to & believed in Jesus Christ ( John 6:35 ) for they thirst & hunger no more after salvation has been done; Matthew 9:17



But that is not what Jesus has said. In John 7:38 is Jesus referring to that born again of the Spirit moment of our salvation. In John 7:39, when He spoke of the permanent indwelling Spirit, which had not been given yet because Jesus was not glorified yet as having ascended to Heaven, it was whenever they that believe on Him should receive. It did not say this will happen whenever any one believes in the second blessing should receive, but when they believe on Him.



Ever saved believer is an able minister and does not require another drink of the One Spirit to achieve that to be able to minister to others. Paul says from the get go since salvation of how we were all baptized into one body after having one drink of the One Spirit so the notion of having another baptism with the Holy Ghost just to get tongues or any gifts of the Spirit is out the door.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.it

Hopefully you can understand why I have contentions because of scripture and why I am concern that believers are trying to fit that extra phenomenon into scripture because they want to believe it is God & that kind of tongue for private use.
Was Jesus "born of the Spirit"? Did he ever receive the Holy Spirit in his life later on? When did Jesus begin his ministry? After what happened to him?
 
Paul knows about God's gift of tongues, and so it is from the scripture that I discern with Him that God's gift of tongues cannot be for private use.


Well it actually is. As a believer that is baptized in the Holy Ghost you are able to speak in an unknown language whenever you will and for as long as you desire. The thing is
it is not you doing the speaking it is the spirit within you. You have to let go and get out of its way. This is really prayer in the spirit and is meant to be specifically for the individual.

There is another tongue gift that is given within a group with an interpreter present so that the utterance can be understood by those present. Always been a bit skeptic of this one
within a group as anybody can claim to interpret and say whatever to move the group in one way or another. Discernment necessary!

As for me I had to simply learn to get myself out of the way to let the spirit speak from within me. Used to pray in tongues in the car on the way to work for 40-45 min straight most days

Like Paul said I will pray with understanding(his own language) and pray in the spirit. For the spirit knows what we need much more than we do.
 
Was Jesus "born of the Spirit"? Did he ever receive the Holy Spirit in his life later on? When did Jesus begin his ministry? After what happened to him?

Yes He was at the river Jordan where the Spirit descended as a dove and stayed on Him, as He received the Spirit without measure.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth (a man) with the Holy Ghost and power.........................
Acts 2:22
 
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Speaking in tounges are not speking in a hevanly language that no one can understand but the gift of speaking human languages that you didn't know before. The purpose of tongues was to bring the gospel message out to the world.
 
1 Cor 14:2

Keep in mind that Paul rebuking the Corintians about how they perform their Worship Services in 1 Cor 14.
It is so amazingly clear in Acts 2 that the people hear their own language spoken not gibris.
So if Acts 2 clearly teaches that the gift of tongues is about the Spiritual gift of being able to speak human languages, 1 Cor. 14 cannot speak against it because the Bible does not speak against itself.
 
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
 
Keep in mind that Paul rebuking the Corintians about how they perform their Worship Services in 1 Cor 14.
It is so amazingly clear in Acts 2 that the people hear their own language spoken not gibris.
So if Acts 2 clearly teaches that the gift of tongues is about the Spiritual gift of being able to speak human languages, 1 Cor. 14 cannot speak against it because the Bible does not speak against itself.
Specify your reference for the statement "Amazingly clear"

At that moment in history the tongues was used to begin the Church increase. But later as Paul states if it's just you alone it's for you.
He even goes on to say do not speak in tongues in front of others without an interpreter and don't do it where there are people that it will run off from the group because
they'll think your all a bunch of nuts.

Why can't both be true? I've heard of English speaking persons speaking in Korean which they did not know, to Koreans, of the gospel. I myself do pray in another tongue.
That gift was imparted at the time of the infilling of the Holy Ghost as strange languages were coming out of my mouth which I still do not know.
But being something I was not familiar with it took a while to understand and allow that gift to work through me and for me, it's a personal thing for the believer. Tongues within
a group is another matter to edify all who are there.
 
1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

How many Christians listen to these verses?
 
Keep in mind that Paul rebuking the Corintians about how they perform their Worship Services in 1 Cor 14.
It is so amazingly clear in Acts 2 that the people hear their own language spoken not gibris.
So if Acts 2 clearly teaches that the gift of tongues is about the Spiritual gift of being able to speak human languages, 1 Cor. 14 cannot speak against it because the Bible does not speak against itself.
If the scripture says "no man understandeth those who speak in tongues" you have to reconcile what were those who heard speaking in tongues hear. The miracle of speaking in tongues was NOT in those who were speaking, it was in those who heard. God caused them to hear their own known language which none of the speakers knew.
 
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