Questions About Talk Jesus's Statement of Faith

[Andrew Qvist]

So is it not clear that the people to whom the Apostle speaks to in Apo 2 heard their own language?

 

[Andrew Qvist]

or do you mean that there are different kinds of linguistic gifts?

 

[Andrew Qvist]

So you say that the Apostles did not spoke the language that the people heard in Apo 2?

 

[Samson2020]

So if Acts 2 clearly teaches that the gift of tongues is about the Spiritual gift of being able to speak human languages,

This statement should have been the one used to ask the question.

 

[Samson2020]

or do you mean that there are different kinds of linguistic gifts?

Bible only states they will speak with other tongues. As written, sometimes it is in languages that others understand although the speaker does not. Other times it is a mystery known
only to God. Not necessarily a different kind of linguistic gift, but an utterance in a group requires a word from the Holy Ghost to utter. A personal prayer session does not.

I take it that you do not pray in another language??

 

[Curtis]

So you say that the Apostles did not spoke the language that the people heard in Apo 2?

Yep, those in the upper room who spoke in an unknown tongue (which is why it's called an unknown tongue) had no idea what they themselves were saying.
The miracle was in the hearing of those who heard them.

 

[Andrew Qvist]

The first time that the form of tongue spoken by the Christian Karasmatic movement was in 1901, but the same form of tongues is spoken in other religions such as the Hindu and the African woodo religion.

 

[Curtis]

The first time that the form of tongue spoken by the Christian Karasmatic movement was in 1901, but the same form of tongues is spoken in other religions such as the Hindu and the African woodo religion.

there will always be a "counterfeit" to the real. As the scriptures speaks of "another Jesus".

 

[PloughBoy]

there will always be a "counterfeit" to the real. As the scriptures speaks of "another Jesus".

Just asking what text was taking about “another Jesus”?

 

[Curtis]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays, but my mind is unproductive [it bears no fruit and helps nobody].(AMP)

Those in the upper room who spoke in tongues were NOT speaking to men for no man understandeth them, they were speaking directly to God for it says......

Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

The Lord God allowed them to interpret in their hearing what they were saying, which were declaring the wonderous works of God.

 

[Curtis]

Just asking what text was taking about “another Jesus”?

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[GodB4Us]

The first time that the form of tongue spoken by the Christian Karasmatic movement was in 1901, but the same form of tongues is spoken in other religions such as the Hindu and the African woodo religion.

I believe Paul was speaking against the early Gnostics here; since Gnosticism is known as secret or hidden knowledge; I see using tongues for private use as they would claim self edification by it.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 7 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

It would explain how the oldest manuscripts are found in monasteries in the Alexandrian area where poetic licensing and Gnosticism was known to exists. The Gnostics did not wear them out because they had abandoned them when they were fasting and praying and being self edified by tongues for private use rather than by the written scriptures. I know it is an assumption but it would explain it by deductive reasonings.

In Toronto's Blessings, a fellow co workers from my former workplace had testified that they were saying "we do not need the Word of God any more; all we need is the Spirit."

We are in the latter days now where faith is hard to find. Believers cannot hear themselves when they are actually preaching another calling & another gospel for believers to seek after to be filled & by a sign too.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

 

[Samson2020]

I believe Paul was speaking against the early Gnostics here; since Gnosticism is known as secret or hidden knowledge; I see using tongues for private use as they would claim self edification by it.

1 Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself................

So Paul is wrong? Or do I misunderstand your statement?

 

[GodB4Us]

1 Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself................

So Paul is wrong? Or do I misunderstand your statement?

No. You are misunderstanding him for wanting tongues to be for private use.

Once again, in 1 Corinthians 14:1-4 is Paul explaining why the gift of prophesy was the best gift to seek over all spiritual gift and began to compare tongues against prophesy for why prophesy is better because tongues is not a stand alone gift.

God's gift of tongues can edify the tongue speaker when it is interpreted and not before because Paul does not understand that tongue for why he is praying that someone will interpret it. 1 Corinthians 14:13-15

 

[Garee]

By the scripture, we can see what happens when a believer gets tongues and so hat is why faith in Jesus Christ for salvation cannot apply to the sign of tongues.

2 Corinthians 5:7 KJ For we walk by faith, not by sight:........ Christ' faith that works in us (Philippians 2:13)

2 Corinthians 5:7 EVR We live by what we believe will happen, not by what we can see.



John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Hence unless believers see the sign of tongues, they will not believe they had received the Holy Ghost again.



John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

And yet Jesus said this also for those wishing for Him to perform like a circus seal.

Matthew 12: 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:



As some believe water baptism is necessary for salvation, & others believe by that sign of tongues, the good report is there is no sign other than we believe in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. .... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

We are not children of God by water baptism and neither are we children of God by that sign of tongues. Tongues were only to serve as a sign to unbelievers; not to the believers. Nowhere in Acts did any one preach the gospel of seeking to receiving that promise of the Spirit by that sign of tongues.



Mark 16: 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;(gospel) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Signs following believers is not believers following signs.

As for drinking from a different fountain... believers can fall as a result.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

If they believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again, God will permit that strong delusion to occur for why there is a falling away from the faith in these latter days as this iniquity was happening even in Paul's days.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The iniquity that causes the falling away from the faith will be the means for how this man of sin will unite the sinners into this one world religion of worshiping the beast as "god".

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

So Paul explains the iniquity at work in his day below which is how that man of sin will perform.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Then Paul exposed that lie of believing one can receive the Holy Spirit again, by reminding believers of the tradition taught of us that we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So for an example, if a Christian thinks they can be a medium and contact dead people, guess what? God will permit them to sin against them for suffering a thief to break through as the restraining part of the Holy Spirit will cease even though He still abides. so in regards to the falling away from the faith, if they believe the lie that they can receive Jesus / the Holy Spirit again, then God will permit that strong delusion to occur, & they get tongues but not God's gift of tongues

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Isaiah 8: 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?



But not gibberish nonsense for why many believes tongues ae for private use just because it comes without interpretation.

If we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, then God's gift of tongues would never mimic the world's supernatural tongue of being gibberish nonsense.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

As it is, per 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15, the man of sin shall make sinners speak in tongues of gibberish nonsense and unite the world of sinners by that one world religion, because he is doing it already as that tongue is ecumenical, the fruit of the false prophet.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Anyway, I hope in the Lord that I have shared my valid concerns for the body of Christ because God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people to be turned around for private use, makes God the author of confusion which He is not, and so therefore that tongue for private use cannot be of Him and how they gained that tongue cannot be of Him either.

Amen No such thing as a sign gift as private confusion tool to edifying oneself in the end it is mockery of the word of God .In that way God mocks those by not giving them the understanding of faith .

The foundation of the doctrine as law found is in Isaiah 28 .the same law revisited spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:21


1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.


Isaiah 28 :9-13 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies: “Saw lasaw saw lasawQaw laqaw qaw laqawZe’er sham ze’er sham.” So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”
But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.” When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

Or fall backwards slain in the spirit.

 

[Garee]

1 Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself................

So Paul is wrong? Or do I misunderstand your statement?

God who is not served by human hands as a will . .will not share his glory with the dying flesh of mankind .We edify God who works in us not our own selves in false pride.

 

[PloughBoy]

If a person wants to speak in “jun mo bomd-mo” language let him speak anywhere he wants., let him speak any where he wants to speak!

 

[GodB4Us]

If a person wants to speak in “jun mo bomd-mo” language let him speak anywhere he wants., let him speak any where he wants to speak!

Except when it is done in the assembly where there is no interpretation.

1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

The nagging point here is that the statement of faith in the OP says all believers will speak in tongues when they get baptized with the Holy Ghost. I'd say that is going to turn believers away from Talk Jesus.

Why call it Talk Jesus then? If only believers that speak in tongues are the saved believers, then why not call it Talk Tongues or Talk Spirit? Yeah, I know you guys talk about Jesus too, but that portion of the Statement of Faith will turn believers away from here that do not speak in tongues. It just seems like the call for fellowship is not about Jesus but agreeing to that we all speak in tongues as proof of having the Holy Ghost hence that spotlight for the assurance of salvation is on that sign of tongues and as @Curtis points out, not every believer has it but they should & @Bob Carabbio refers to it as an event later in life that he had experienced as a saved believer, but that is not what that statement of faith is saying at all.

So I do not believe every one is speaking the same thing here and it is certainly not conveyed very well in that statement of faith if referring to a later event from when a believer is saved. Indeed, some of the verses Curtis had referenced were not really supporting his belief.

Only God can peradventure to recover any from this snare. I do not want to argue or bite & devour any one nor wind up being used by the devil to get believers to bite & devour me, but I am sincere in sharing my concerns because of the scripture for why I do not believe God's gift of tongues would ever be used for private use for why believers should take pause and consider how they got that tongue by another calling & another drink of the One Spirit for why it cannot be of Him at all.

I do not doubt you guys are saved because like me, we all believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God raised Him from the dead and that is why and how we know we are saved.

But what you guys are saying and defending is departing from what we are all suppose to share in 1 Corinthians 12:13 for why I am keeping the faith which is the good fight & I hope the Lord is working because I know I cannot wake you guys up.

 

[PloughBoy]

Except when it is done in the assembly where there is no interpretation.

1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

The nagging point here is that the statement of faith in the OP says all believers will speak in tongues when they get baptized with the Holy Ghost. I'd say that is going to turn believers away from Talk Jesus.

Why call it Talk Jesus then? If only believers that speak in tongues are the saved believers, then why not call it Talk Tongues or Talk Spirit? Yeah, I know you guys talk about Jesus too, but that portion of the Statement of Faith will turn believers away from here that do not speak in tongues. It just seems like the call for fellowship is not about Jesus but agreeing to that we all speak in tongues as proof of having the Holy Ghost hence that spotlight for the assurance of salvation is on that sign of tongues and as @Curtis points out, not every believer has it but they should & @Bob Carabbio refers to it as an event later in life that he had experienced as a saved believer, but that is not what that statement of faith is saying at all.

So I do not believe every one is speaking the same thing here and it is certainly not conveyed very well in that statement of faith if referring to a later event from when a believer is saved. Indeed, some of the verses Curtis had referenced were not really supporting his belief.

Only God can peradventure to recover any from this snare. I do not want to argue or bite & devour any one nor wind up being used by the devil to get believers to bite & devour me, but I am sincere in sharing my concerns because of the scripture for why I do not believe God's gift of tongues would ever be used for private use for why believers should take pause and consider how they got that tongue by another calling & another drink of the One Spirit for why it cannot be of Him at all.

I do not doubt you guys are saved because like me, we all believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God raised Him from the dead and that is why and how we know we are saved.

But what you guys are saying and defending is departing from what we are all suppose to share in 1 Corinthians 12:13 for why I am keeping the faith which is the good fight & I hope the Lord is working because I know I cannot wake you guys up.

Depends on what religion or if whether or not one belongs to one or not.

Now days many Christian’s worship a goddess name “Circe”and they bow down and worship her in the name of Jesus. And love her more than “The ALMIGHTY GOD” and many are not ashamed to proclaim their allegiance to her in total boldness.

the Corinthians didn’t have a New Testament book or a Bible it was a pagan worships city and Paul was trouble about its practices in which it carried with them in worshiping the True GOD because he was so trouble upon their pagan practices he wrote a letter but it arrived in AD 56. And The book of The Acts of The Apostles was not written until after AD 60.
I am done. I am sorry.
The word is “Languages” the word tongues means “languages” stop saying the archaic tongues it is Languages!

Satan deceptive powers are strong and mighty. He have deceive the “WHOLE WORLD”!
And take note:
The institutional church is a part of ThE World!
And if we say it is not we have been deceive in this matter as well.

 

[GodB4Us]

Depends on what religion or if whether or not one belongs to one or not.

Now days many Christian’s worship a goddess name “Circe”and they bow down and worship her in the name of Jesus. And love her more than “The ALMIGHTY GOD” and many are not ashamed to proclaim their allegiance to her in total boldness.

Not familiar with the apostasy in these latter days as associated with Circe. First I have heard of it.

the Corinthians didn’t have a New Testament book or a Bible it was a pagan worships city and Paul was trouble about its practices in which it carried with them in worshiping the True GOD because he was so trouble upon their pagan practices he wrote a letter but it arrived in AD 56. And The book of The Acts of The Apostles was not written until after AD 60.

Not sure how one can verified that, specially if they are just going by the earliest manuscript which could have been a copy of an earlier one.

One thing I do know that the apostle John had written the Book of Reveations before paul had written that second epistle to the Corinthians because Paul referred to the apostle John and that book of Revelation "indirectly" here.

2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

I am done. I am sorry.

No harm done in sharing a bit of side info.

The word is “Languages” the word tongues means “languages” stop saying the archaic tongues it is Languages!

Satan deceptive powers are strong and mighty. He have deceive the “WHOLE WORLD”!
And take note:
The institutional church is a part of ThE World!
And if we say it is not we have been deceive in this matter as well.

Isaiah 8:19 has described that gibberish nonsense of a supernatural tongue as found in the occult which was before Pentecost. This is why I do not believe the Holy Spirit would use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people in their foreign language to turn it around for His own use like praying out loud in gibberish nonsense to God. This is why believers are confused and are left with assuming what that tongue is for without interpretation only because they want to believe it is of God.

My neighbor across the street was a believer for most of her life and she changed her testimony to when she was saved to that moment when she assumed that was the Holy Ghost coming over her, bringing her that tongue.

Then we have Joyce Meyers having that same moment but believing when the Holy Ghost came over her giving her tongues, she used it as a sign that God was calling her into the ministry.

And as much as believers try to insist on just that one extra calling in receiving the Holy Ghost for that sign of tongues, the phenomenon keeps on going after other sensational signs in the flesh. It just does not stop.

It is akin to why I apply the parable of the ten virgins where they are all saved a spart of the kingdom of heaven but five went astray for why they are out to the market still getting filled with oil while the wise were already had the oil as always been Spirit-filled since salvation ( Matthew 9:17 ) for why they were ready for the Bridegroom when He had come. The parable of the ten virgins is here at this reference ---> Matthew 25:1-13

Then we have this warning here about how there will be those saved believers that will depart from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, & in hypocrisy as if they had not received the holy Spirit the first time at the calling of the gospel; 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

Hopefully, those that oppose will see my valid concern for the brethren by the scripture is genuine, because I believed they were saved the moment they believed in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God raised Him from the dead, but got seduced into believing the lie that they can receive the holy Spirit again by that sign of tongues as if they were not complete in Christ in the first place when they got saved.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

It is the rudiment of the world to receive spirits on a continuous basis like mediums and wizards with familiar spirits & as Khundalini is relates to an awakening while Christian circles call holy laughter a great awakening.. Go figure.