Rapture event - Poll

[twcstp]

No stress . Boldly speak away!!



Agreed. I would just qualify that phrase as ''believe Jesus is Lord and that He rose from the dead'' Per Rom 10:9.

I agree with you as I believe in OSAS. Even David, after his two mortal sins would have repented and still gone to paradise.

A key word I inserted that you may have missed is ''continuing'' in sin. Paul clearly states in Rom 6:9-12 that any who 'continue' in sin will not see heaven. Note how every word mentioning a sinner ends with ''er'', Fornicat ''er'', murder ''er''.

Now I am trying to speak to both OSAS and non-OSAS believers as we have common ground here. We both believe someone continuing in sin unrepentant will not be in heaven.

OSAS = You will not be able to continue in mortal or venial sin unrepentant.

Non-OSAS = You will shipwreck your salvation.



I don't agree. Scripture does speak of a rapture event. Please see post # 1 and post # 86.

Warning people to be rapture ready is the same as warning people to repent of their sin today as tomorrow they could die.



I don't agree.

As a Christian our job is to be an ambassador for God 2 Cor 5:20.

We need to properly study topics in order to be able to answer controversial questions that can so easily incriminate God as evil.

For example:

I believe that if God does not rescue us, He is evil. Now if I think that, how many unsaved would too?

For the following reasons:

1. Abandoning Christians with an unrestricted devil = Evil.
2. Taking the Holy Spirit from us when He has been part and parcel of 'Christianity, faith in Jesus' from day one = Nonsensical.
3. God dropping His plagues on Christians = Evil.
4. God needing to further test those who have already accepted Him as Lord = Nonsensical.



How are you going to believe in Jesus if the Holy Spirit is removed? 1 Cor 12:3 is crystal clear that you need the Holy Spirit for that.

Please re-read my OP.

I'm still learning

OSAS = You will not be able to continue in mortal or venial sin unrepentant.

I quoted this from all that you said to say I totally and absolutely agree with this. One of the things I acknowledged some months ago as I walk with our Savior Jesus is that there are some sins we hate, and are captive to; some sins, we love & hate, and some sins we outright love, and we need God's help to remove them. For example, vaping nicotine; smoking tobacco. I am only sharing this referentially; I had a pornography addiction from an early age which followed me for many years, and was not broken until Jesus delivered me from it. I HATED it. I still do. But I have been delivered from it. There is a sin in my life still that I hate, which I also love; in that I enjoy it, and I acknowledged this to the Lord Jesus--so I am convicted of my sin, and am still in the sin, and it is falling away--that sin specifically is smoking tobacco.

1 Corinthians 3:17-19​

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

I am not in any way accepting this sin, or sin, period; neither will I ever encourage sin. Some months ago, while I was battling vaping nicotine, the Lord spoke to me in the Holy Spirit and said, 'Put it under My feet.' I knew it was the Lord (the Light above All darkness). He told me to put it (the darkness, the sin, the bondage of the sin, the love of the sin) under His feet. I am still battling this sin. It was when I told Jesus that I loved the sin, even though I hate it, that He spoke those Words to me. I am convicted and still in the sin. It will not continue in my life in the Name of Jesus.


I am open to correction; whatever you have to say of this I will hear you, in Jesus Name. Amen.

I am just sharing with you that I absolutely agree. If you are saved you cannot continue in sin.

 

[Christ4Ever]

It won't happen. The rapture will not take place as people see it. The only "rapture" will happen at the return of Jesus.

I am not going to allow people to walk the middle of the road on this false teaching, because so many churches have compromised to do the same as what you're speaking of. Our God is not a god about compromise. It's the same way with those who are gay, lovers of other men or women, or bisexual they are living in sin and there's no if ands or buts about it.

There is no compromise in God when it comes to sin. So why allow this thinking in your own life.

This is what will happen once people realize that they have been fooled into thinking that the Rapture is a real thing. They will leave Jesus they will leave their churches and join the One World Church that will stand there with open arms for them. The One World Church of Satan is what its title should have. That church will be a church of compromise. It will teach its members that it is okay to receive the mark of the beast. It will teach that it's okay to be gay, it will teach that we are all inclusive and coexist with God.

And it is why they will hate the true Christians so much. To be Christian during this time will be worse than it was for the Jews during the time of the Holocaust, with one exception. And that exception is the Holy Spirit which will be our Shield and Sword against the enemys of God

Dear Bill,
I can't say for sure it will happen, when it happens or if it does. Does this make me a compromiser of Scriptural truth because I do not know for sure this prophetic subject will turn out? Then color me middle of the road brother!

Prophetic writings/future events are difficult at best to tie down and are not compromises. These are more of "iron sharping iron" exercises than anything else. To correlate them to moral sins, is just wrong because if that’s okay to do, then you can correlate anything to sin. You just walked in the doorway that Hitler once walked into, so you’re following in his footsteps, and thereby a sinner of the most high! Sounds absurd, but when I read you relating moral sin to belief in the Rapture. Well, to me that’s absurd too!

I am not saying that sin cannot come from this subject, but it can come from just about anything in excess, because of man’s sinful nature. Now if this is something you have a problem with and it makes you sin, then it would be best to avoid it. Let me know, and I’ll stop conversing with you on it, because I don’t want to be the cause of your sinning.

Correlating what many consider future events/prophecy can be an issue in general. I’m sure you're aware of the prophecy found in Revelation concerning Israel, and that they would be a Nation again. There was much debate prior to the 1940's when they did finally become a Nation again, because it was believed that would never happen! Many construed that what was really meant was a reconstituted Israel within other countries. USA being of them, because many, I say many, thought since they had not been a Nation since 70AD when Rome dispersed them that they would not be able to regain the very land they were taken from again. Were these mistaken? Assuredly! Were they sinners for interpreting scripture incorrectly? Did they lose their salvation because of this. I do not believe so, and I hope you don’t either.

There is a lot about the future that we do not know besides our Lord Jesus’ returning. When that happens only God knows, but I'm trusting Him, over the conjectures of others. Which is why I told you that we should be about our Lord's business of growing God's Kingdom, and spreading the Gospel.

So, with everything being said so far, is it false teaching, or an interpretation of future events that there is no surety on? I believe the latter, because prophecy in general kind of works that way until it is fulfilled. If you believe they are, which is the implication I get, then I must ask you one question. "Do you believe that those who have a belief in the Rapture who know the Lord Jesus as their Lord and Savior because of said belief are not saved?"

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

I'm still learning

OSAS = You will not be able to continue in mortal or venial sin unrepentant.

Yes. You will still make many 'mistakes' but not be able to continue in them unrepentant. Not with the Holy Spirit in us.

One of the things I acknowledged some months ago as I walk with our Savior Jesus is that there are some sins we hate, and are captive to; some sins, we love & hate, and some sins we outright love, and we need God's help to remove them.

Agreed.

For example, vaping nicotine; smoking tobacco. I am only sharing this referentially; // There is a sin in my life still that I hate, which I also love; in that I enjoy it, and I acknowledged this to the Lord Jesus--so I am convicted of my sin, and am still in the sin, and it is falling away--that sin specifically is smoking tobacco.

I would not call this sin. Just bad habit.

I had a pornography addiction from an early age which followed me for many years, and was not broken until Jesus delivered me from it. I HATED it. I still do. But I have been delivered from it.

I still battle with this. Sexual sins are the hardest sins to shake. Especially at the venial level. This is why Jesus used them as His case study in Matt 5:28.

But, as I am trying to explain to a number of people here, you cannot read Matt 5:28 in isolation to Matt 5:32.

Matt 5:28 = Immoral thoughts are sinful, adulterous (Venial sin).
Matt 5:32 = Do not divorce unless there is actual sexual sin / adultery (Mortal sin).

Massive difference between thoughts and acting on them.

I am not in any way accepting this sin, or sin, period; neither will I ever encourage sin. Some months ago, while I was battling vaping nicotine, the Lord spoke to me in the Holy Spirit and said, 'Put it under My feet.' I knew it was the Lord (the Light above All darkness). He told me to put it (the darkness, the sin, the bondage of the sin, the love of the sin) under His feet. I am still battling this sin. It was when I told Jesus that I loved the sin, even though I hate it, that He spoke those Words to me. I am convicted and still in the sin. It will not continue in my life in the Name of Jesus.

I am open to correction; whatever you have to say of this I will hear you, in Jesus Name. Amen.

I am just sharing with you that I absolutely agree. If you are saved you cannot continue in sin.

So, sin is a very interesting word. If you had to study the A-Z of scripture and grasp the A-Z of all God's laws that made actions sinful. You will find a very common theme. Namely, someone always got hurt.

There are only two categories of sins that appear blurry at first.

1. Sins against God
2. Sexual sins

1. Sins against God are those sins like not honouring the Sabbath, not honouring your body, worshiping false idols.

God seems to be very sentimental and jealous of us. The Sabbath was a day isolated for all Jews to be thankful to God for helping them escape 400 years of slavery. Our bodies are the temple of the Lord, honouring them is our minimum sacrifice 1 Cor 6:19-20.

2. Sexual sins

Something like homosexuality between consenting adults does not appear to be hurting anyone. But according to scripture it clearly upsets / hurts God.

------------

Something like smoking does hurt you. But not anyone else or God. I guess God is a little upset because He does not want you hurting yourself . Very hard to get out of it as it is so addictive. Good luck, I will be praying for you.

 

[KingJ]

Garee, this is mostly conjecture. Degrees of sin is what scripture teaches.

Where?

Hi Bill, created this thread to discuss degrees of sins - Degrees of sin - Poll

 

[twcstp]

Yes. You will still make many 'mistakes' but not be able to continue in them unrepentant. Not with the Holy Spirit in us.



Agreed.



I would not call this sin. Just bad habit.



I still battle with this. Sexual sins are the hardest sins to shake. Especially at the venial level. This is why Jesus used them as His case study in Matt 5:28.

But, as I am trying to explain to a number of people here, you cannot read Matt 5:28 in isolation to Matt 5:32.

Matt 5:28 = Immoral thoughts are sinful, adulterous (Venial sin).
Matt 5:32 = Do not divorce unless there is actual sexual sin / adultery (Mortal sin).

Massive difference between thoughts and acting on them.



So, sin is a very interesting word. If you had to study the A-Z of scripture and grasp the A-Z of all God's laws that made actions sinful. You will find a very common theme. Namely, someone always got hurt.

There are only two categories of sins that appear blurry at first.

1. Sins against God
2. Sexual sins

1. Sins against God are those sins like not honouring the Sabbath, not honouring your body, worshiping false idols.

God seems to be very sentimental and jealous of us. The Sabbath was a day isolated for all Jews to be thankful to God for helping them escape 400 years of slavery. Our bodies are the temple of the Lord, honouring them is our minimum sacrifice 1 Cor 6:19-20.

2. Sexual sins

Something like homosexuality between consenting adults does not appear to be hurting anyone. But according to scripture it clearly upsets / hurts God.

------------

Something like smoking does hurt you. But not anyone else or God. I guess God is a little upset because He does not want you hurting yourself . Very hard to get out of it as it is so addictive. Good luck, I will be praying for you.

Hello,

Have you asked Father to help you remove it?

I was so convicted of this sin in the past that I could not BEAR to remain in it before Father.

Psalms 51 is our door to Father for active sin. If we approach Him, through Psalms 51, He will hear us! Thank Him for His conviction!

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.​

Father will deliver you.


What you can do is ask Father to increase His conviction of the sin, and watch and He wondrously removes it from you in Jesus Name! Glory to God! Thank You Father! Amen!


Psalms 51:

Psalm 51​

51 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2&nbsp;Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3&nbsp;For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4&nbsp;Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5&nbsp;Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6&nbsp;Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7&nbsp;Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8&nbsp;Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9&nbsp;Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10&nbsp;Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11&nbsp;Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12&nbsp;Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13&nbsp;Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14&nbsp;Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15&nbsp;O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16&nbsp;For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17&nbsp;The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18&nbsp;Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19&nbsp;Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

 

[twcstp]

Acts 3:26​

26&nbsp;Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.


Praise God. I believe you'll soon be delivered from it! When the devil comes to draw you down, rebuke all of the thoughts, emotions, feelings, and sensations in the Name of the Lord JESUS! When the temptation comes,

Mark 14:38​

38&nbsp;Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

Be aware that entertaining the thoughts is entering the temptation; you can & must cast down the thoughts in Jesus Name. Amen.

2 Timothy 3:5​

5&nbsp;Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

God has given us a s Spirit of Power, of Love, and of a Sound-mind. He equips us with His Holy Spirit. Through Jesus, we by grace have been saved, and because we have been saved, we have been sealed & received the Holy Spirit! It is the Holy Spirit who gives us power over all forms of death, which is sin; we depend on His conviction, and listening to His conviction leads us in paths of righteousness' for HIS Name's sake! It's His Glory for us to repent, and be made new in Him! Glory to God!


If there is anything in your life at all that is actively feeding the temptation; videos, television, magazines, friends & associates, you have to toss out everything and then set boundaries between you and your friends & associates so that you will not be tempted. In Jesus Name, Amen. Thank You Father.

 

[twcstp]

Thank You Father for your wonderful conviction, in JESUS Name! Amen!

 

[twcstp]

Psalm 26
​

26 Judge me, O Lord; for I have walked in mine integrity: I have trusted also in the Lord; therefore I shall not slide.
2&nbsp;Examine me, O Lord, and prove me; try my reins and my heart.
3&nbsp;For thy lovingkindness is before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.
4&nbsp;I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with dissemblers.
5&nbsp;I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked.
6&nbsp;I will wash mine hands in innocency: so will I compass thine altar, O Lord:
7&nbsp;That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works.
8&nbsp;Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.
9&nbsp;Gather not my soul with sinners, nor my life with bloody men:
10&nbsp;In whose hands is mischief, and their right hand is full of bribes.
11&nbsp;But as for me, I will walk in mine integrity: redeem me, and be merciful unto me.
12&nbsp;My foot standeth in an even place: in the congregations will I bless the Lord.

 

[Bill]

Dear Bill,
I can't say for sure it will happen, when it happens or if it does. Does this make me a compromiser of Scriptural truth because I do not know for sure this prophetic subject will turn out? Then color me middle of the road brother!

Prophetic writings/future events are difficult at best to tie down and are not compromises. These are more of "iron sharping iron" exercises than anything else. To correlate them to moral sins, is just wrong because if that’s okay to do, then you can correlate anything to sin. You just walked in the doorway that Hitler once walked into, so you’re following in his footsteps, and thereby a sinner of the most high! Sounds absurd, but when I read you relating moral sin to belief in the Rapture. Well, to me that’s absurd too!

I am not saying that sin cannot come from this subject, but it can come from just about anything in excess, because of man’s sinful nature. Now if this is something you have a problem with and it makes you sin, then it would be best to avoid it. Let me know, and I’ll stop conversing with you on it, because I don’t want to be the cause of your sinning.

Correlating what many consider future events/prophecy can be an issue in general. I’m sure you're aware of the prophecy found in Revelation concerning Israel, and that they would be a Nation again. There was much debate prior to the 1940's when they did finally become a Nation again, because it was believed that would never happen! Many construed that what was really meant was a reconstituted Israel within other countries. USA being of them, because many, I say many, thought since they had not been a Nation since 70AD when Rome dispersed them that they would not be able to regain the very land they were taken from again. Were these mistaken? Assuredly! Were they sinners for interpreting scripture incorrectly? Did they lose their salvation because of this. I do not believe so, and I hope you don’t either.

There is a lot about the future that we do not know besides our Lord Jesus’ returning. When that happens only God knows, but I'm trusting Him, over the conjectures of others. Which is why I told you that we should be about our Lord's business of growing God's Kingdom, and spreading the Gospel.

So, with everything being said so far, is it false teaching, or an interpretation of future events that there is no surety on? I believe the latter, because prophecy in general kind of works that way until it is fulfilled. If you believe they are, which is the implication I get, then I must ask you one question. "Do you believe that those who have a belief in the Rapture who know the Lord Jesus as their Lord and Savior because of said belief are not saved?"

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Being saved is a everyday thing. Just like Judas whose name was once "written in heaven" , he later chose to throw it away, because he thought he had a better way.

Jesus does not die for us over and over, as some have claimed. There was One death on the cross, and one Resurrection. As God always was and always will be, God is always in the present. So even though to us Jesus death was over 2000 years ago, to Jesus it is always today.

Our salvation is always today, to God. Yet to us who are not eternal, we think that once we accept Jesus, we have no worries, that we can never step out of line, and fall.

Remember Lucifer was with God before he fell. And his knowledge and understanding of God is so much greater than ours. And yet he still fell, in Pride. So if the creature who has made so perfect can have the choice to become prideful, what makes it so different for us who are not perfect - who can become perfect in Jesus. What stops us from having the capacity to fail.

The one thing that we have that the devil does not have, is the ability to seek God's forgiveness on our own. And we should ask God to forgive us our trespasses daily.

It was not idle fancy that Jesus taught us the "Our Father".

Our Father who is in heaven holy is your name your kingdom come your will be done on earth as it is in heaven - give us this day our daily bread and ""forgive us our trespasses"" as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation!!!
--------------
As for the rapture,

There are many who take the Rapture so seriously, it nearly replaces God in their understanding of things.

Obviously do not do that, but I've been to churches that do.

When the time comes I think you will find that many people who had put their hopes in the rapture versus in God will find disillusionment

 

[backNforth]

I am open to correction; whatever you have to say of this [smoking cig's] I will hear you, in Jesus Name. Amen.

I am just sharing with you that I absolutely agree. If you are saved you cannot continue in sin.

There is a powerful devil in charge of addictions (e.g. food, sex, drugs, rock n roll, ad nauseum), and he has a hierarchy in place to ensure that the victim stays in that bondage loop. However, the only thing Satan's boyz rightfully fear is the blood of Jesus Christ.

Meanwhile, God already knows all about our bag of trash. But he requires us to bring it to the light (aka confess), to our benefit. Having then confessed, we obtain mercy and grace to help to be able to resist i.e. to turn from the sin (aka repent). Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Heb.4:16

One can't repent (turn away from) addictions until they have the strength to do so. Confession brings the power of God to your table so you're then able to repent/resist.

The reason why most don't get delivered is because they don't continue to resist, and so that devil of addiction will never tap out. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Jam.4:7

Repentance is an action, not a one-off, as you will be tested strongly because the devil hates losing territory he has held previously. You will be flicking off attacks more than usual after any confession.

When I came to Jesus, I confessed the lot, both known and unknown. The strength to repent came after. Initially, because you're weak in that specific area, it is enough to will it. Addicts fall into this category; they know they cannot physically/physiologically "resist" the temptations, but they voluntarily make a choice to exercise their free will in God's direction to "resist;" such is sufficient for deliverance...

 

[KingJ]

Being saved is a everyday thing. Just like Judas whose name was once "written in heaven" , he later chose to throw it away, because he thought he had a better way.

Everyone's name starts off written in the book of life. We know this because babies go to heaven and evil people who have never accepted Jesus can get their names blotted out.

Exo 32:32-33 But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book''.

You believe He writes your name at birth; He blots it out when you sin, He puts it back, He can then again blot it out. Must be a very messy book. God seems to be unable to properly vet a person before He blots them out. Does the devil get a second chance too? Did God make a mistake blotting his name out?

The point Jesus was making in Luke 10:20 is that His disciples were ensuring it stays, written in heaven. At the time of Jesus OSAS did not exist. No disciple except for Peter received a revelation of who Jesus was Matt 16:16-17.

God does not make mistakes!! He blots your name out once, that's it. It's out. Your name either stays in or gets removed.

To disagree with this means you have to believe the following two items:

1. Babies do not go to heaven.
2. God cannot properly vet someone. We could expect the devil back in heaven one day or some of us in heaven to go to hell in a couple thousand years. God cannot properly vet a person = God cannot properly vet a person.

-------------------------------

I just want to add. This is why I disagree with Purgatory. I agree with the humanistic reasoning for it. It is perfectly logical. But God is not a human! Num 23:19. He does not make mistakes removing devils from His book or grafting saints into heaven.

He judges the depths of our hearts and minds Jer 17:9-11. This is why OSAS is true.

As for the rapture,

There are many who take the Rapture so seriously, it nearly replaces God in their understanding of things.

Obviously do not do that, but I've been to churches that do.

Taking the rapture seriously means you are living each day as though it is your last. Nothing wrong with that.

When the time comes I think you will find that many people who had put their hopes in the rapture versus in God will find disillusionment

I have given reasons in my OP as to why and how God would be incriminated as evil if He does not rapture His bride.

I typed a lengthy post to you, post # 114 explaining the evil in no rapture when considering Rev 2:10.

Instead of giving your opinion, please take a stab at a rebuttal. Nobody grows if we only type our opinions. I would like to hear your logical rebuttal.