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Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

Member
Anyone looking for direct scripture support of the famed Pre-Trib Rapture will come up empty handed. Admits Rapture heavyweight John Walvoord in his book called The Rapture Question (Findlay, OH:1957, p.148). Saying;

"Ladd, in contrast to Jones, concedes that post-tribulalional rapture is an inference rather than an explicit revelation of Scripture in the following statement:

"Nor does the Word explicitly place the Rapture at the end of the Tribulation."

“The fact is that neither posttribulalionism nor pretribulationisim is an explicit teaching of Scripture. The Bible does not in so many words state either.”

“Pretribulationism is based on the fact that it allows a harmony of the Scriptures relating to the Second Advent.”

“The separation of the translation from the return of Christ to earth permits each of the two events so different in character, to have its own place.”

“It solves the problem of the confusing and contradictory details in the post-tribulational interpretation illustrated in the difficulty of the postribulationist's themselves to work out a harmony of prophecies related to the second advent."


Another Rapture heavy-weight, Tim LaHaye says:

"One objection to the pre-Tribulation Rapture is that not one passage of Scripture teaches the two aspects of His Second Coming separated by the Tribulation. This is true. But then, no one passage teaches a post-trib or mid-trib Rapture, either."

Tim LaHaye, No Fear of the Storm: Why Christians Will Escape All the Tribulation (Sisters, OR: Multnomah, 1992), 69. This book was later republished as Rapture Under Attack). “That’s Not in the Bible” Gary DeMar


So despite the fact millions of books claiming the rapture flew off the shelves despite the failed prophecies surrounding them, millions of Christians believe as scripture truth the claims that have no scripture supporting them.

If you believe in the pre-trib rapture, how do you support it with scripture when the best-known Rapturists cannot?
 
Loyal
The Tom LaHaye quote is so ridiculous it made me laugh and choke on my coffee. But perhaps I should weep.

There is not a scrap of the Bible that teaches the removal of the church from earth at any time.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Anyone looking for direct scripture support of the famed Pre-Trib Rapture will come up empty handed. Admits Rapture heavyweight John Walvoord in his book called The Rapture Question (Findlay, OH:1957, p.148). Saying;

"Ladd, in contrast to Jones, concedes that post-tribulalional rapture is an inference rather than an explicit revelation of Scripture in the following statement:

"Nor does the Word explicitly place the Rapture at the end of the Tribulation."

“The fact is that neither posttribulalionism nor pretribulationisim is an explicit teaching of Scripture. The Bible does not in so many words state either.”

“Pretribulationism is based on the fact that it allows a harmony of the Scriptures relating to the Second Advent.”

“The separation of the translation from the return of Christ to earth permits each of the two events so different in character, to have its own place.”

“It solves the problem of the confusing and contradictory details in the post-tribulational interpretation illustrated in the difficulty of the postribulationist's themselves to work out a harmony of prophecies related to the second advent."


Another Rapture heavy-weight, Tim LaHaye says:

"One objection to the pre-Tribulation Rapture is that not one passage of Scripture teaches the two aspects of His Second Coming separated by the Tribulation. This is true. But then, no one passage teaches a post-trib or mid-trib Rapture, either."

Tim LaHaye, No Fear of the Storm: Why Christians Will Escape All the Tribulation (Sisters, OR: Multnomah, 1992), 69. This book was later republished as Rapture Under Attack). “That’s Not in the Bible” Gary DeMar


So despite the fact millions of books claiming the rapture flew off the shelves despite the failed prophecies surrounding them, millions of Christians believe as scripture truth the claims that have no scripture supporting them.

If you believe in the pre-trib rapture, how do you support it with scripture when the best-known Rapturists cannot?
Dear Brother,
So, the question really then is "when" not "if"?

By the way the title of the thread is really misleading to what is provided, and so my question.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Member
Dear Brother,
So, the question really then is "when" not "if"?

By the way the title of the thread is really misleading to what is provided, and so my question.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
If you cannot support the pre-trib rapture with scripture, how can you have faith in it? Faith comes by hearing the word. Jesus and Paul teach the "rapture" happens after the resurrection on the last day. Plenty of faith-building scripture if interested...
 
Moderator
Staff Member
If you cannot support the pre-trib rapture with scripture, how can you have faith in it? Faith comes by hearing the word. Jesus and Paul teach the "rapture" happens after the resurrection on the last day. Plenty of faith-building scripture if interested...
Dear Brother Dave L,
Let me put my question in another way. Does it matter when the Rapture happens, if it happens?

Personally, I believe if it happens, it will be prior to God's Wrath being released on the Earth. I don't believe God's people are meant to experience His Wrath.

If you haven't noticed, to me I don't live my life waiting for it to happen or not to happen, because my faith is in the Lord, as I await His return, while going about His business.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Member
Dear Brother Dave L,
Let me put my question in another way. Does it matter when the Rapture happens, if it happens?

Personally, I believe if it happens, it will be prior to God's Wrath being released on the Earth. I don't believe God's people are meant to experience His Wrath.

If you haven't noticed, to me I don't live my life waiting for it to happen or not to happen, because my faith is in the Lord, as I await His return, while going about His business.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
The world has been under God's wrath (especially today) since creation. Scripture only supports the rapture (Translation of the Saints) on the last day after the resurrection. The great tribulation was worse than all that ever happened in 70 AD to the Jews. And it continued all through history since then, including the holocaust.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
The world has been under God's wrath (especially today) since creation. Scripture only supports the rapture (Translation of the Saints) on the last day after the resurrection. The great tribulation was worse than all that ever happened in 70 AD to the Jews. And it continued all through history since then, including the holocaust.
Dear Brother,
I'm still waiting for you to answer the question I posed to you in my last two posts. :)

So, you believe that the Wrath of God that has been experienced in different instances up to this day, will compare/comparable to the Wrath of God that is to happen as seen in the Revelation to John?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Member
Dear Brother,
I'm still waiting for you to answer the question I posed to you in my last two posts. :)

So, you believe that the Wrath of God that has been experienced in different instances up to this day, will compare/comparable to the Wrath of God that is to happen as seen in the Revelation to John?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
Jesus says the Great Tribulation of 70 AD was the worst ever. Have you studied what took place? If you ever do, we won't need this discussion.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Jesus says the Great Tribulation of 70 AD was the worst ever. Have you studied what took place? If you ever do, we won't need this discussion.
Dear Brother Dave L,
To answer your question. Probably not as in depth as some events in humanities history that has affected God's people, but enough since it ties in to their return. There was a time in my life that eschatology was of great import to me. For who doesn't want to know what tomorrow holds? However, I'm old enough to know that too much focus on tomorrow, and today will just pass you by.

Apparently there is a point you are wanting to make, in the starting of this thread, which might be spoiled if you were to answer my question. That is fine. You go about what making your point, in whatever manner suits you best. :) I look forward to what you'll be sharing.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Member
Dear Brother Dave L,
To answer your question. Probably not as in depth as some events in humanities history that has affected God's people, but enough since it ties in to their return. There was a time in my life that eschatology was of great import to me. For who doesn't want to know what tomorrow holds? However, I'm old enough to know that too much focus on tomorrow, and today will just pass you by.

Apparently there is a point you are wanting to make, in the starting of this thread, which might be spoiled if you were to answer my question. That is fine. You go about what making your point, in whatever manner suits you best. :) I look forward to what you'll be sharing.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
You need to study the Great Tribulation before assuming anything. Jesus said it was the worst ever, not to be repeated. Do not trust Dispensationalism. It was designed by the Jesuits to deceive you.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
You need to study the Great Tribulation before assuming anything. Jesus said it was the worst ever, not to be repeated. Do not trust Dispensationalism. It was designed by the Jesuits to deceive you.
Dear Dave L,
Just reading Scripture Brother, just reading Scripture.
Enjoy the posting!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Moderator
Staff Member
How important is it for you to teach the truth?
Dear Brother,
I'm not a teacher, nor is everyone who writes here at Talk Jesus.
Though I do comment as anyone with questions does, when faced with theological understanding that hasn't made itself clear, in seeking the truth that I might hold unto it.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Loyal
I was just looking it up -- seems that the Jesuits came up with their beliefs from one of the extra-biblical books that are not included in the Canon of Scripture.

Some of Dispensationalism is in respect to the Church and Israel. Whether the Church is an extention Of Israel or separate.

God's Word Is divided into various 'dispensations' -- just the numbers vary.

So -- it would depend on what a person considers to Be the Truth. One of the most important truths is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The 2nd part of the trinity / Godhead.

Another important truth would be that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit when He came upon Mary. Thus Jesus Christ -- while here on earth -- was both deity and human. He both died on the cross -- a physical death -- shed His blood for our sins -- died on the cross and rose again bodily. And then after 40 days ascended back up to God the Father.
 
Member
Dear Brother,
I'm not a teacher, nor is everyone who writes here at Talk Jesus.
Though I do comment as anyone with questions does, when faced with theological understanding that hasn't made itself clear, in seeking the truth that I might hold unto it.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
Did you know Dispensationalism rejects Christ's gospel of the kingdom? And sides with the Pharisee's Pre-Millennial version? How serious is this? And worth looking into?
 
Member
Is there a difference between GOds wrath and his curse??
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Did you know Dispensationalism rejects Christ's gospel of the kingdom? And sides with the Pharisee's Pre-Millennial version? How serious is this? And worth looking into?
Dear Dave L,
May be something to look into, but.....on another thread?
I'm sure some might look into it.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Member
Dear Dave L,
May be something to look into, but.....on another thread?
I'm sure some might look into it.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
This is my thread on Dispensationalism and the pre-trib rapture. What do you suggest?
 
Moderator
Staff Member
This is my thread on Dispensationalism and the pre-trib rapture. What do you suggest?
Dear Dave L,
By the Title, and your first post in the thread....I sort of believe the above was your intent before posting it, but clearly you didn't write it in a way that would have had the reader understand that it was your purpose for doing so.

My suggestion would be to start another thread, that clearly outlines the subject, and lay out what your position is with Scriptural support. Including both sides, as clearly as you understand them to be, so that those who either agree/disagree can add or take away that which would be helpful to their growth/understanding in Eschatology/God's Word.

Lord willing great insight and learning would come of it.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
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