Refuting The Cessationism Doctrine: Spiritual Gifts, Tongues, Miracles Haven’t Ceased Since Pentecost!!

[Samson2020]

A long time ago there was a guy who told me that IF I could show the evidence Of miracles taking place, then he'd believe in God. Well -- I shared several situations that Had been considered miracles from the people / doctors who cared for them. All this guy did was find reasons to discredit anything these people said. There have been a couple of times that I've realized that a guardian angel was saving my life. And one of my brother-in-laws had been in process of bleeding out internally on the operating table. After the fact the surgeon and the assistance said they watched in amazement as the bleeding slowed and stopped. No reason it should have. It was a medical miracle.

Healing happening After death -- well -- a born again believer Does receive a glorified body. God heals us either in this life or in eternity.

And it's Also true that there are 'faith healers' who are fakes. But God heals as He sees fit, He doesn't 'heal' at our demand. But He Is capable of healing to show us His Power to get our attention.

That was just another Satanic attempt to tempt you like, If thou be the Son of God turn these stones to bread. The answer from Jesus was, Thou shalt not tempt the
LORD thy God.

 

[B-A-C]

That was just another Satanic attempt to tempt you like, If thou be the Son of God turn these stones to bread. The answer from Jesus was, Thou shalt not tempt the
LORD thy God.

Have you ever thought about why it might have been a sin? Surely eating bread isn't a sin, Jesus did it other places.
It's interesting that Jesus says Satan is tempting "the Lord thy God". Another clue Jesus is God.

Have you also ever wondered, why Satan tried to tempt Jesus to do "God things". Turn stones to bread, jump off the steeple and let Angels catch you.
Why didn't Satan just try to get Jesus to lie, cheat steal, or lust like most human men do.

Many scholars believe Jesus had to defeat Satan as a man. A man gave the authority over the earth away, a man had to take it back.
If Jesus would have used His "God power" to defeat Satan, it kind of would have been cheating. He defeated Satan as a man.

As far as as asking God to do things for us. that's hardly tempting God. We are told to ask...

Matt 7:7; "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Matt 21:22; "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

Mark 11:24; "Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.

John 14:13; "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14; "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

John 15:7; "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

John 16:23; "In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you.
John 16:24; "Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.

Jas 1:5; But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

1Jn 3:22; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

 

[Samson2020]

Have you ever thought about why it might have been a sin? Surely eating bread isn't a sin, Jesus did it other places.
It's interesting that Jesus says Satan is tempting "the Lord thy God". Another clue Jesus is God.

That is just spin as Jesus only did what he saw or heard the Father doing he would not turn stones to bread as his Father had not told him to do so. Not to mention
Jesus himself gives the Father the credit for the miracles that were performed. If you have participated in being a speaker for the Lord you would understand that
what your doing is simply speaking what you have been asked to say by the Lord. He then carries out the miracle.
Thus he was not God he was and always will be Gods only begotten Son that was obedient to the voice of his Father.

 

[B-A-C]

Mark 16:15; And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Mark 16:16; "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Mark 16:19; So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

1Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Acts 6:8; And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.
(Stephen is not called an Apostle anywhere in the Bible)

2Tim 3:1; But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2Tim 3:2; For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3; unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
2Tim 3:4; treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2Tim 3:5; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

Acts 1:8; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

 

[Samson2020]

Many scholars believe Jesus had to defeat Satan as a man. A man gave the authority over the earth away, a man had to take it back.
If Jesus would have used His "God power" to defeat Satan, it kind of would have been cheating. He defeated Satan as a man.

You are correct that a man named Adam was disobedient, but it was a man named Jesus who defeated him who had the power over death (Satan) which is what
Adam gave to Satan and Jesus took back. First Adam, last Adam.
Now in your way of saying this you place a man as the one who gave it away and a man had to take it back. Why then is it necessary for you to make Jesus God
in order to take back what Adam had lost? If it were God in the flesh that would be cheating, but it was rather the Son of God a man who was being tempted to be
disobedient to his Father and he had come to only do the will of his Father.
I can't help but wonder how you folks that see Jesus was God miss the scriptures where he plainly states he was the Son of God, and those that say Jesus as a child
GREW IN WISDOM and in FAVOR WITH GOD. How do you see someone that grows in wisdom, that God created, being God? How do you see someone saying I
am the Son of God being the one and only true God instead of his Son?

 

[Samson2020]

As far as as asking God to do things for us. that's hardly tempting God. We are told to ask...

Asking God for something is not tempting him to prove anything. Satan had said "If thou be the SON OF GOD prove it by turning these stones to bread. This is
tempting to prove not asking. And BTW he said if though be the SON OF GOD all 3 times he was tempting Jesus.

James 1:13 .......For God cannot be tempted with evil.............
Here we have a verse that plainly states God cannot be tempted with evil but Jesus was tempted to prove his obedience to God. Therefore he was not God but again
the Son of God who became obedient unto death.

 

[B-A-C]

that God created, being God?

You don't think Jesus existed before being born as a human in a manger in Bethlehem?
You don' think Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit? If God has a Son, that Son is also God.
Jesus created everything before coming to Earth. Jesus left heaven to come here.

Php 2:5; Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6; who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be held onto,
Php 2:7; but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8; Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Matt 1:20; But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Heb 2:7; "YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
Heb 2:8; YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET." For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.
Heb 2:9; But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

 

[Samson2020]

Heb 2:7; "YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

You have made him, You=God him=Jesus God had made Jesus
You have crowned him, You=God him=Jesus God had crowned Jesus
And have appointed him, him=Jesus God had appointed Jesus
over the works of your hands, Your=God

by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Grace of God he (Jesus) might taste death. Not God but the Son of God who BECAME A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT, God already was a life giving Spirit as the LIFE Jesus
obtained came from the Father. And to note if he already had that LIFE within him why would he need to have it given to him?
Jesus was the pattern Son for all to follow in his footsteps.
Take his righteousness for your unrighteousness and be in proper standing with God then do what you are told to do by the Lord and the LORD and become
obedient unto your own death, be that of natural causes or otherwise and become a son just like the first Son who BECAME A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT.

r the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

I agree but in order to be the descendant of David he had to be born of the flesh of Mary therefore one of her human eggs was used and God through the Holy Spirit
supplied the male genetic side of the zygote. Almost like artificial insimination which is extremely common today. However there was but one tiny swimmer placed in her to bring about the body of Jesus. Which explains why he could be callled the last Adam as he was born outside the curses of EDEN just as Adams initial
start had been. Same level playing field. The curse of the fallen Adamic nature (carnality) comes from the father to the child, God who does not have a carnal mind cannot pass one to his child therefore Jesus was born outside the curses. But had them placed upon him when he was made to be sin in Gethsemane.

 

[B-A-C]

John 14:12; Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Jesus says we can do what He did when He was here, and we can even do "greater things" than He did.

John 14:12; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

 

[Dave M]

Thus he was not God he was and always will be Gods only begotten Son

HOw can God have a son that is not God??

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You got that wrong. Not since Pentecost, since the bibles completion mid 90's AD. Obviously there were miracles done after Pentecost in Acts 2. However, you cannot prove one ounce that miracles happen today.

Miracles were done to confirm the word and prove Jesus was who he said he was (ie Mark 16:20; John 20:30-31). Miracles are things done that are supernatural and against what happens naturally. Nothing like that happens anymore, nor can you prove it. However, because they do not happen anymore, that is all the proof I need especially when scripture says so.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10
Ephesians 4:11-14

The word does not need confirming anymore. Jesus already proved who he was/is.

Since miracles were to confirm the word, I dont see anyone going out in public healing a terminally ill person with but a touch. Or someone that has been crippled since birth, or even people like Stephen Hawking. It just doesnt happen.

People talking in tongues back in Peter and Pauls day were speaking actually languages. Not this gibberish you hear now days. The Greek word literally says in another language or dialect. Not some weird hibbity who haa gibberish. But an actual language spoken by nations or peoples.

People with visions and prophecy actually had them back in those times. Now days they get proved wrong time and time again when the said event that was suppose to happen never does.

Nope, none of these claimants are out there going around doing these things to the masses. Why? Because those gifts have been done away with.

SO all THIS is is the typical Cessationist Paradigm, continuously parroted by Those who can't "move in the Holy Spirit", Don't WANT TO, and don't think anybody else should either. Same 'ol, Same 'ol.

The two scripture cites say NOTHING about the withdrawal of the GIFTS partially enumerated in 1 Cor 12. 13:8-10 makes the UNWARRANTED ASSUMPTION that the "Perfect" referred to is the Bible. Other variations are "The Printing press" or "the death of the last Apostle." It's simply a case of "Adjusting" one's interpretation to support one's Paradigm.

Eph 4:11-14 speaks of the MATURE CHURCH, which OBVIOUSLY isn't even on the radar yet. The "Visible church" is split and shattered 100 ways to Sunday, and NOWHERE NEAR Perfect, or in any way "Unified".

People talking in tongues in Acts 2:4 WERE speaking specific languages (which identities are given). in 1 Cor 14, however, NOBODY UNDERSTOOD what was spoken and the charisma of INTERPRETATION was required. so THAT argument is out the window. PAUL NEVER CRITICIZED their Tongues (as being illegitimate) - just told 'em how to use them properly.

Paul is clear to say the "Prophesy" IS TO BE JUDGED - confirmed by "others" - presumably who have the SAME prophetic utterance, but not the burden to speak it. I have experienced Legitimate prophecy, and PHONY Prophesy. That there IS "Phony prophesy" doesn't in ANY WAY eliminate the existence of the REAL THING. I've been in "Full Gospel" churches now for well over 50 years, and can easily say from personal observation that everything YOU SAY doesn't happen - really DOES.

Can I PROVE that to you??? Obviously not!! you've made up your mind to be a cessationist, and will, without a second thought, discard any and all "experiential evidence" I could offer. UNLESS something unquestionably miraculous happens to you or someone close to you, you'll just continue believing your interpretations are correct.

Simple as that.

 

[Samson2020]

HOw can God have a son that is not God??

You pose the perfect question.
God had a Son who was born of a woman and the seed of God thus he was a man who had no carnal mind(2nd Adam) He grew in wisdom and favor with God,
as God knew that his Son, Jesus, would be the sacrifice for the sin of the world, thus they were never without one another throughout Jesus' childhood. After being
baptized in Jordan Jesus became Jesus Christ (the anointed of God) and had obtained LIFE within himself just as you and I obtain that exact same life when we are
baptized in the Holy Spirit. He then became empty of his own will and did the things his Father required of him during his ministry (obedient 100%), even unto his
own death(mind of Christ). Once crucified for the sin of all mankind he was resurrected and at his glorification he was pronounced to be a God by his Father.
".....But unto the Son he saith O God thy throne is forever......"

I do not deny that Jesus is a God in that he "became a life giving Spirit" exactly like his Father. He, as a Son, grew up to become a God. This is the plan of God for all.
Jesus was born a man that became a life giving Spirit thus a God. A man that became a God.
But you cannot start the journey until he chooses you to begin, thus your born of the Spirit moment.

I've said it many times that the word became flesh means that Jesus was the PLAN of God for all to follow to come to the same outcome. And God proved that
the plan works in that Jesus overcame the world through his obedience, resurrection, and subsequent glorification and now sits at the right hand of the only true
God as a God. The Son of the only true God.

And whoever is chosen of the Father to receive life will begin their own race to gain that position. Born as a human, baptized in the Holy Ghost(born again spiritually),
obedient unto death. This is something that all men can do once they have received the free gift of faith that allows one to believe in the plan, and thus come to
know Jesus who had completed the plan and listen to him so that he will guide you to the same outcome he obtained.

It is really quite glorious once the whole picture is revealed. This is a quite shortened version.

 

[B-A-C]

He, as a Son, grew up to become a God. This is the plan of God for all.
Jesus was born a man that became a life giving Spirit thus a God. A man that became a God.

So He wasn't always a God, but became a god. (Mormonism) Are there any other people who became gods?

the only true
God as a God. The Son of the only true God.

And whoever is chosen of the Father to receive life will begin their own race to gain that position.

So anyone can become a god? (Mormonism) and start their own race/planet/universe.

So if Jesus is 'a' god, but the Father is the one 'true' God. what are all these others gods? False gods? If Jesus isn' the 'true' God, is He a false god?

 

[Samson2020]

So if Jesus is 'a' god, but the Father is the one 'true' God. what are all these others gods?

At the moment there is only one other and he sits at the right hand of his Father. But the rest and the one who sits at the right hand of the Father are his sons.

So anyone can become a god?

No. Everyone will be a spiritual child of God and therefore a god in the sense they are eternal beings that have life within themselves just as was given to Jesus.
And as I said earlier you cannot even begin the race until the baptism in the Holy Ghost is given, and that is up to the Lord as to who and when.

God was and always will be the only True God. Jesus the Son of God became a life giving Spirit proclaimed to be a God by his and our Father as death has no more
dominion over him, and those that partake of the first resurrection will have the same.

I've given the verses many, many times over, and over, and over, but for some reason most cannot see them for what they say. If he does not teach you then you will
not understand this thing called sonship, which has been the entire reason for the creation. Children with limitless capacity that glorify their Father.

You cannot be a joint-heir of Christ and be much less than Christ, you must be a son of God in the sense that you have achieved maturity to where he grants you the
status.

And my Bible says that "eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor hath entered into the heart of man the things that God hath prepared for those that love him."
So I can't answer your question as to whether or not you will start your own race/planet/universe. But if I was guessing I'd say no because there will be billions
of brothers in the kingdom to know and that idea just doesn't seem practical.

1 Co 15:45 "And so it is written the first Adam became a living being, the last Adam BECAME A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT."
John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he GIVEN TO THE SON TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF."
John 4:14 "But those that drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, GIVING THEM ETERNAL LIFE.
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

 

[B-A-C]

I've given the verses many, many times over, and over, and over, but for some reason most cannot see them for what they say. If he does not teach you then you will
not understand this thing called sonship, which has been the entire reason for the creation. Children with limitless capacity that glorify their Father.

What the Spirit has taught me is... there are many sons (lower case s) but only one Son (upper case S). Many were created, but only one was begotten.
Only one was the beginning with God, and was God (in the beginning as well).

 

[Trevor]

It's not that miracles don't happen, it's that believers don't have the belief for them Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

 

[Samson2020]

What the Spirit has taught me is... there are many sons (lower case s) but only one Son (upper case S). Many were created, but only one was begotten.
Only one was the beginning with God, and was God (in the beginning as well).

What exists that did not come from God?

Romans 8:20 "For the creation was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope."
Romans 8:19 "For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God."
Romans 8:21 "Because the creation itself shall also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

Isaiah 45:11 "Thus saith the LORD (God), the Holy one of Israel (Jesus), and his Maker(God), Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me."

Like I said, only he can make this real for you but as you read the above notice that the creation was subjected to vanity so that it could be set free from vanity
by God manifesting his son(s). The entire reason for the creation was/is to mature children.

In your reading have you ever looked into the word LOGOS which was translated as WORD in John. It has other meanings such as PLAN, REASON.
I.E. if I give you my word that I will do something it is a promise that is spelled out, like in a contract that I will perform a thing.
If you replace WORD with PLAN you get a new perspective. In the beginning was the PLAN, and the PLAN was with God, And the PLAN was God.
When we say the PLAN was God it actually is saying the PLAN was to reproduce himself, which he did to prove the PLAN in Jesus Christ as he is now
a God proclaimed to be by his Father thus he Is. Should you be upset with this truth then ask God to reveal it to you but I cannot imagine why you would not
want this for yourself and all the children of the Most High.

 

[Samson2020]

What the Spirit has taught me is... there are many sons (lower case s) but only one Son (upper case S). Many were created, but only one was begotten.
Only one was the beginning with God, and was God (in the beginning as well).

The only part of Jesus that was begotten was his body and mind. The Spirit of Jesus was the same as ours in that he went through the being born again spiritually
just as he said any man would have to do in order to see the Kingdom of God.

 

[B-A-C]

I've given the verses many, many times over, and over, and over, but for some reason most cannot see them for what they say.

Well I agree with you partly here. We have both given many scriptures. There comes a point where we are just spinning our wheels.
One thing to keep in mind is no scripture stands alone, it has to agree with all other scripture in order to be valid.

 

[Samson2020]

Well I agree with you partly here. We have both given many scriptures. There comes a point where we are just spinning our wheels.
One thing to keep in mind is no scripture stands alone, it has to agree with all other scripture in order to be valid.

Deu 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me........
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first and the last; and beside me there is no god."
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE ME: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye and bring them near yea let them take counsel together who hath declared this from ancient time? Who hath told it from that time?
Have not I the LORD? and there is NO GOD ELSE BESIDE ME; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me."

I would say that these verses tell the tale that in the beginning before Jesus came into his glorification that God said many times over there is NO GOD BESIDE ME.
But since the glorification of Jesus Christ there are two, but only ONE TRUE GOD his Father, which in Jesus' own words says that "life eternal is to know Thee the only
TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ ,whom thou hast sent.
I can take the Lord at his word as I know he does not lie. Neither one of them.