"Rich" Christians?

[Rad]

A simple question, but perhaps not such a simple answer........ in a World where Hundreds of Millions of Men women and children endure lives of abject poverty, barely surviving on less than $1.50 a day, when 7 million children die from hunger and Disease every year, when lives of suffering, oppression and exploitation blight the lives of so many,........ is it possible to be materially "Rich" and still claim to be a follower of Christ?

 

[B-A-C]

Hard, but not impossible I think.

Matt 27:57; When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus.

Luke 19:2; And there was a man called by the name of Zaccheus; he was a chief tax collector and he was rich.
Luke 19:9; And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.

 

[Waggles]

22 And when Jesus heard it, he said to him, One thing thou lack yet: sell all that thou hast, and distribute to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in the heavens, and come, follow me.
23 But when he heard these things, he became exceeding sorrowful; for he was very rich.
24 And Jesus seeing him said, How hardly shall they that have possessions enter into the kingdom of God!
25 For it is easier for a camel to enter in through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they that heard it said, And who can be saved?
27 But he said, The things impossible with men are possible with God.
28 And Peter said, Lo, we have left our own, and followed thee.
29 And he said to them, Amen I say unto you that there is none that hath left house, or wife, or brethren, or parents, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake,
30 who shall not receive manifold more in this season, and in the age to come eternal life.

 

[Waggles]

Something for all of us to ponder (meditate) on ... how much is this applicable to me?

Matthew 6:19 Treasure not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth consumes and rust, and where thieves dig through and steal.
20 But treasure up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not dig through nor steal:
21 for where thy treasure is, there will thy heart be also.

 

[MrBear]

Good message brother
I don’t think god hates wealth
Job was very wealthy in those days of measuring wealth and god bragged to Satan about how pious he was ( although I’m sure job would have rather god didn’t bring his name up to Satan)
And in the end after a good tongue lashing blessed job with even more riches
A whole monastic movement was created by the belief that god is against wealth, the monks of medieval times lived very impoverished lives.

I think how ever you want to serve the Lord is a personal discipline, I think that possessions and money have the power to take gods place in peoples lives so he warned against this type of idolatry.

The idolatry of wealth , serve god with ALL your heart don’t lie if giving to god give it and don’t spend all day patting yourself on the back, give in good spirit. God doesn’t want an offering given in anger or of bad spirit
Just like job if it is the Lords will he blesses those that serve him with their hearts and not only through money and possession, in my case I don’t live above my means, but the lord provides all I need and my blessing comes in the form of peace of mind
Riches and possessions aren’t I believe a disobedience to god but it’s what you covet more
Matthew 19:20-23
20 “I’ve obeyed all these commandments,” the young man replied. “What else must I do?”
21 Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 But when the young man heard this, he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Jesus knew this mans heart and his possessions became a stumbling block although he obeyed all the laws he still made wealth his idol and had to walk away

But David was wealthy Solomon was extremely wealthy so I don’t see wealth as any of their downfalls
It’s how you covet them that can spell disaster in your walk with the Father
Ty for the message brother
SHALOM

 

[Dave M]

money itself is a neutral thing, the way we use it will tell us wear our heart is. Our we storing up treasure in heaven by using our money for the kingdom now? or are we storing up big barns on earth with our money so we can live the american dream ??

I think one of the best test we can conduct on our self,, is to simply look at wear we put our money.

Do you spend more on the kingdom or more on your hobby and traveling?

 

[PloughBoy]

May i say this again it is not what you do, it is, who you are. That will determine your destination.

 

[Waggles]

Proverbs 18:11 A rich man's wealth is his strong city, and like a high wall in his imagination.

Proverbs 21:17 Whoever loves pleasure will be a poor man; he who loves wine and oil will not be rich.

Proverbs 28:6 Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than a rich man who is crooked in his ways.
28:11 A rich man is wise in his own eyes, but a poor man who has understanding will find him out.

Proverbs 28:20 A faithful man will abound with blessings, but whoever hastens to be rich will not go unpunished.
21 To show partiality is not good, but for a piece of bread a man will do wrong.
22 A stingy man hastens after wealth and does not know that poverty will come upon him.

Proverbs 19:4 Wealth brings many new friends, but a poor man is deserted by his friend.

 

[B-A-C]

May i say this again it is not what you do, it is, who you are. That will determine your destination.

antinomianism? It doesn't matter how you live?

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

 

[PloughBoy]

antinomianism? It doesn't matter how you live?

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

If you are truly one of The "sons of GOD" you walk like one and you will live like one" You can do no other. But if you are a christian that maybe another matter.
For i am referring to the "True Children of GOD" and not to the ones who are trying to act like one. In Layman terms: Like a man trying to act like a woman. A boy trying to act and dress like a girl.

 

[Dave M]

May i say this again it is not what you do, it is, who you are. That will determine your destination.

who you are, dictates what you do in other words you will know a tree by the fruit it produces

 

[PloughBoy]

who you are, dictates what you do in other words you will know a tree by the fruit it produces

Well i understand. But on judgement day I am not going to be concern about the fruit you are bearing, nor I.m I looking at it. From here on out, I am concerning about my own behind. Now if you want to watch me switch down the street, more power to you, But i got news for you i will not be watching you switch down the street. to see what kind of fruit you are bearing.

 

[K9Buckeye]

A simple question, but perhaps not such a simple answer........ in a World where Hundreds of Millions of Men women and children endure lives of abject poverty, barely surviving on less than $1.50 a day, when 7 million children die from hunger and Disease every year, when lives of suffering, oppression and exploitation blight the lives of so many,........ is it possible to be materially "Rich" and still claim to be a follower of Christ?

That's a great question. I believe the answer is, yes, they can still be a "follower of Christ", but not necessarily a "faithful" follower of Christ. A rich Christian may be surprised to see that their gardener in Earth is living in a mansion made of gold while they're living in a 1-bedroom apartment.

 

[Dave M]

Well i understand. But on judgement day I am not going to be concern about the fruit you are bearing, nor I.m I looking at it. From here on out, I am concerning about my own behind. Now if you want to watch me switch down the street, more power to you, But i got news for you i will not be watching you switch down the street. to see what kind of fruit you are bearing.

the fruit bearing is a self examination so I was not asking you to watch me.

But when we post here,, our words show our hearts, and the type of fruit, some can see this some can not.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

May i say this again it is not what you do, it is, who you are. That will determine your destination.

I think i understand what you are saying, correct me if i am wrong, please....

Your destination is determined by who you are and who you are determines what you do.


Bless you ....><>

 

[PloughBoy]

That's a great question. I believe the answer is, yes, they can still be a "follower of Christ", but not necessarily a "faithful" follower of Christ. A rich Christian may be surprised to see that their gardener in Earth is living in a mansion made of gold while they're living in a 1-bedroom apartment.

when we post here,, our words show our hearts, and the type of fruit, some can see this some can not.
[/QUOTE]
I know my heart for the Bible tells me what kind of heart i have and it is not pretty and i believe it. And i do meditate in the "WORD of GOD" night and day, making sure all of it dwells in me night and day, the whole counsel of GOD for over 44 years and i have not skill a beat. For it is "The BREAD of LIFE" and how can a "TRUE Child of GOD Live without it" For it is impossible to do so. Christians might can, and go years without eating a mean, But A healthy "Child of GOD" EATS A HEALTHY MEAL EVERYDAY, Because if that child does not eat, it will get sick and die a real death. For the word of GOD for the True child of GOD is The Bread of LIFE and He or she cannot live without it. But many christians can live without. devouring "The TRUTH". "by what they do and what they eat you will know them"

And for as my heart is concerning it is wicked and one day i will be seperated from that Flesh and GOD will destroy it, from dirt it came to dirt it will return. "who shall delivery me from the body of this death
American Standard Version
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?" "Total Depravity"

Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of GOD.

(Matthew 15)NASB
"But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and those things defile the person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, acts of adultery, other immoral sexual acts, thefts, false testimonies, and slanderous statements."

And the people of this world think and believe good things comes from the HEART, But I got news for the WORLD,, GOD will DESTROY that very heart they so Cherish and the stuff that flows out it, whether they believe it or not. All of it is corrupted. Even the drops of blood that pumps it.

Like many have said: Christianity has gone Full Pledged "Pelagian". In their christian believeth , and have cast off the Word of GOD, And have shape their own religion and develop their own god.; So they did at the Bottom of Mt. SINAi , so they have today. They have erected Their own "Golden Calf" and label him "Yahweh" And they do not even know it, Because it is The JUDGMENT of GOD, And it is declared by writings in "THE BOOK" so clear that a Child can see it, But blinded to many by The decree of "GOD ALMIGHTY". according to HIS purposed. And many are dancing in the streets celebrating as they did at the bottom of "Mt. Sinai".

For this is who we are. "The True Children of GOD" Our hearts are not going to heaven or entering into eternal life, Our brains and hearts, eyes are flesh. Flesh and Blood does not inherit Eternal Life.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @Rad

is it possible to be materially "Rich" and still claim to be a follower of Christ?

I think you know the answer to this?
I think you are aware of the statistics showing the distribution of wealth across the 'world'?
How does it go....? If you have a few coins you are richer than....

"If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on your back, a roof overhead and a place to sleep
you are more comfortable than 75% of the people in this world.

If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, spare change in a drawer, a pocket or somewhere
you are among the top 8% of the world’s most wealthy people.

If you can read this, remember that there are over two billion people in the world who cannot read at all."

"If you can drink out of your kitchen faucet whenever you wish…you are more fortunate by far than the 1.5 billion people who have no access to clean drinking water."

so, what is 'materially rich' today?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Dave M]

May i say this again it is not what you do, it is, who you are. That will determine your destination.

you know I was thinking of this that you posted this morning when I was reading the word. And it was talking about the resurection and those that "do" good go on to eternal life, and those that "do" bad go on to eternal punishment. It does not say "who" you are will determine your destination, it says what you do is telling to your destination. IMO


John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

 

[PloughBoy]

you know I was thinking of this that you posted this morning when I was reading the word. And it was talking about the resurection and those that "do" good go on to eternal life, and those that "do" bad go on to eternal punishment. It does not say "who" you are will determine your destination, it says what you do is telling to your destination. IMO


John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Well quoted, there is a hour for those unto eternal life and there is another hour for unto eternal damnation. And Blesseth is the ones in the 1st resurrection. And the full knowledge of that one will be revealed, When GOD the FATHER will reveal the Secrets that has not never been Revealed. Concerning “ His Purposed” and of “HIs Salvation”. That have been displayed in “The Salvation Story” That Will Be “Manifested Throughout Eternity “ where there is no end.
“The Manifestation of The Glory of GOD”
And these words are not mines for it is written in The Volume of The Book in The “Person of Jesus The Anointed of GOD” Who is “THE HOPE of GLORY”

So we can deny or accepted it it will come to pass.

 

[Rad]

Hard, but not impossible I think.

Matt 27:57; When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus.

Luke 19:2; And there was a man called by the name of Zaccheus; he was a chief tax collector and he was rich.
Luke 19:9; And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.

Hi B-A=C, i would say very, very ,very hard, but as you say, "not impossible", for as Christ said, "with God everything is possible.",

The quote from Matthew, about Joseph of Arimathea, is i believe one of the very few occasions in the Gospels where the Rich are mentioned and not condemned, and i have heard it said that God used Joseph to provide Christ with a tomb, a sepulchre hewn from the rock, from which Christ could rise, or perhaps being a Rich man his influence with Pilate in begging the body of Christ would be far greater than the mainly poor masses that followed Christ. And although it doesnt say in the gospels, being a Disciple of Christ and Rich, perhaps Christs teachings on Wealth and Riches would have persuaded him to forsake his wealth. we just dont know.

As for Zacchaeus, in Luke 19 vs 3-8 it says,
3 And he sought to see who Jesus was, but could not because of the crowd, for he was of short stature. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see Him, for He was going to pass that way. 5 And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him, and said to him, “Zacchaeus, make haste and come down, for today I must stay at your house.” 6 So he made haste and came down, and received Him joyfully. 7 But when they saw it, they all complained, saying, “He has gone to be a guest with a man who is a sinner.”
8 Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.”
I think vs 8 is the clincher, its only after Zacchaeus vows to give half of his goods to the poor and give back 4 times that which he obtained through extortion and corrupt practices, which i believe was the basis of a Chief Publicans wealth, and would have left him virtually penniless, that Christ pronounced" Today Salvation has come to this House....."

A situation i believe comparable to our own lives today where the wealth and riches we possess are often as the result of a corrupt and unjust world economic system that puts the wealth of the many into the hands of the few.