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"Rich" Christians?

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Something for all of us to ponder (meditate) on ... how much is this applicable to me?

Matthew 6:19 Treasure not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth consumes and rust, and where thieves dig through and steal.
20 But treasure up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not dig through nor steal:
21 for where thy treasure is, there will thy heart be also.

Hi Waggles, i see no reason why the story of the rich Ruler and Christs Commandment to not store up treasure on Earth is not applicable to us, i often hear Christians say " Its not Wealth and Riches that Christ condemns but our attitude to them", well if you read your quote from Matthew 6:19 Christ makes it very clear that by our mere possession of Treasures on Earth we show our attitude to them and that they possess our Heart.
You cannot serve both God and Mammon, but how we try, and i often think that many of us need to pray there will be some mighty small camels or some mighty big needles in Heaven, because if we continue as we are, thats the only way we have a chance of getting into there.
 
A simple question, but perhaps not such a simple answer........ in a World where Hundreds of Millions of Men women and children endure lives of abject poverty, barely surviving on less than $1.50 a day, when 7 million children die from hunger and Disease every year, when lives of suffering, oppression and exploitation blight the lives of so many,........ is it possible to be materially "Rich" and still claim to be a follower of Christ?
Hello @Rad,

Many of those believers so blessed with worldly goods, do a great deal, by contribution, to help others. We cannot judge by outward appearance, for the Lord is concerned with the heart, and only He can justly read it.

* Joseph of Arimathea, a wealthy believer, gave his tomb for Christ's burial.

Thank you
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Good message brother
I don’t think god hates wealth
Job was very wealthy in those days of measuring wealth and god bragged to Satan about how pious he was ( although I’m sure job would have rather god didn’t bring his name up to Satan)
And in the end after a good tongue lashing blessed job with even more riches
A whole monastic movement was created by the belief that god is against wealth, the monks of medieval times lived very impoverished lives.

I think how ever you want to serve the Lord is a personal discipline, I think that possessions and money have the power to take gods place in peoples lives so he warned against this type of idolatry.

The idolatry of wealth , serve god with ALL your heart don’t lie if giving to god give it and don’t spend all day patting yourself on the back, give in good spirit. God doesn’t want an offering given in anger or of bad spirit
Just like job if it is the Lords will he blesses those that serve him with their hearts and not only through money and possession, in my case I don’t live above my means, but the lord provides all I need and my blessing comes in the form of peace of mind
Riches and possessions aren’t I believe a disobedience to god but it’s what you covet more
Matthew 19:20-23
20 “I’ve obeyed all these commandments,” the young man replied. “What else must I do?”
21 Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 But when the young man heard this, he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus knew this mans heart and his possessions became a stumbling block although he obeyed all the laws he still made wealth his idol and had to walk away

But David was wealthy Solomon was extremely wealthy so I don’t see wealth as any of their downfalls
It’s how you covet them that can spell disaster in your walk with the Father
Ty for the message brother
SHALOM :love:

Hi Mr Bear, an interesting reply, i believe that Waggles quote of Matthew 6 19-21 shows Christs attitude to the possession of wealth,
Matthew 6:19 Treasure not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth consumes and rust, and where thieves dig through and steal.
20 But treasure up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not dig through nor steal:
21 for where thy treasure is, there will thy heart be also.
its the possession of it in itself that shows our attitude to it, you can either work to store up treasure in heaven by following Christs commandments of Love ,Compassion and Justice or you can work to store up treasure on Earth, you cant do both, and where that treasure is, on heaven or on Earth, thats where your heart will be.
And i also strongly believe in the "Deceitfulness of Riches" that Christ spoke of in the Parable of the Sower that "choked the Word and prevented it from coming to fruition", for i know only too well in my own life how comforting and secure it can be to have money and possessions, but also how that comfort and security and lack of denial and sacrifice stifles and chokes the seed of faith.
And im not learned in Scripture or theology but i believe that situations described in the OT are not necessarily applicable to our lives as Christians, on a number of occasions in the Sermon on the mount Christ spoke of "you have been told,... but i tell you", we are living under the New Covenant, and although possessing wealth and Riches was OK then, it seems to me from Christs teachings they are definitely a path to Destruction now.
 
money itself is a neutral thing, the way we use it will tell us wear our heart is. Our we storing up treasure in heaven by using our money for the kingdom now? or are we storing up big barns on earth with our money so we can live the american dream ??

I think one of the best test we can conduct on our self,, is to simply look at wear we put our money.

Do you spend more on the kingdom or more on your hobby and traveling?

Hi Dave M, totally agree, the definition of wealth and riches is that we keep it for ourselves, its greed and selfishness, and with a child dying every few seconds somewhere in Gods world because of Poverty i believe its indefensible for a Christian to have riches while millions suffer and die, and then still claim to be following Christs commandment to Love our neighbour and treat others as we d want to be treated.
Money is neutral, and in the right hands can do so much good in the world, it can feed, the hungry, cure the sick and house the homeless, it can help to Glorify Gods kingdom of Love, Compassion and Justice, but in the wrong hands it can be the instrument of greed, Selfishness and pride, Glorifying our egos and Vanities.
The choice is ours, and we will face, as in all things, Gods judgements on that choice.
 
May i say this again it is not what you do, it is, who you are. :pensive: That will determine your destination.

Hi Ploughboy, thats true, but who we are will determine what we do, the two are interlinked, if we have a heart of Love and Compassion, a heart atuned to the Kingdom of Heaven, then we will seek to Glorify God in the Love we show to those in need, we will use our riches to store up treasure in heaven, if we have a heart atuned to the desires of this Earth, we will seek earthly riches , pride and adoration, and our treasure will be of the earth...... and that will determine our "destination"
 
That's a great question. I believe the answer is, yes, they can still be a "follower of Christ", but not necessarily a "faithful" follower of Christ. A rich Christian may be surprised to see that their gardener in Earth is living in a mansion made of gold while they're living in a 1-bedroom apartment.

Hi K9 Buckeye, an interesting reply, for we are ALL sinners, all in need of Gods forgiveness and grace, the question is given Christs teachings on Wealth and Riches and his condemnation of those that possess them will they be able to carry on being rich and still expect salvation, well getting a camel through the eye of a needle is impossible for us, but with God Everything is possible, and i would never pronounce on any individuals salvation or otherwise, alls i would say is to quote what Christ said in Luke 6 vs 24, "Woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation" followed up by the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man"
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Together with numerous other sayings about wealth and riches and their incompatibility with our professed faith made by Christ, its not looking good for the rich is it?
 
Greetings @Rad



I think you know the answer to this?
I think you are aware of the statistics showing the distribution of wealth across the 'world'?
How does it go....? If you have a few coins you are richer than....

"If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on your back, a roof overhead and a place to sleep
you are more comfortable than 75% of the people in this world.

If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, spare change in a drawer, a pocket or somewhere
you are among the top 8% of the world’s most wealthy people.

If you can read this, remember that there are over two billion people in the world who cannot read at all."

"If you can drink out of your kitchen faucet whenever you wish…you are more fortunate by far than the 1.5 billion people who have no access to clean drinking water."

so, what is 'materially rich' today?


Bless you ....><>

Hi Br Bear, that was to be my next question, yes im only too aware of the statistics, and in an attempt to try to put a face to the poverty, death and suffering in this World daily watch videos, reports and documentaries detailing the so many horrors on Gods Earth and, together with a history of campaigning that goes back nearly 40 years,means i have no excuse of ignorance to defend the wealth i possess.
I think that how we view being "materially rich" depends a lot on just how "converted" we have become. This is why i believe Christ spoke so often on the subject of Money, because its something thats so close to our hearts and as such is a competitor to our Faith. You cant store up treasure on Heaven and on Earth, you cant serve God and Mammon, your heart, your faith is either with one or another.
And you cant claim to love your neighbour as yourself while theyre living in poverty and suffering and you have a life of comfort and Riches, for you could so easily ease their suffering, lift them out of poverty but your greed, your selfishness, stops you from doing it.
I know im "rich", and i offer no defence, i have money in the bank, like most of us i saved for that "rainy day", i drive a car, i live a comfortable life free from want and hunger, but i am trying, by giving more than my income im trying to reduce my bank balance, by questioning everything i do im trying to further reduce my spending, but even doing that i still try to imagine just what the people, the children i see in the videos i watch, would make of my my life if they could see me, and just what Christs thinking of my attempts to follow his teachings.
So perhaps what im really trying to say is that how we view what is "materially rich", is a reflection on just how much we love, both God and our neighbour
 
A simple question, but perhaps not such a simple answer........ in a World where Hundreds of Millions of Men women and children endure lives of abject poverty, barely surviving on less than $1.50 a day, when 7 million children die from hunger and Disease every year, when lives of suffering, oppression and exploitation blight the lives of so many,........ is it possible to be materially "Rich" and still claim to be a follower of Christ?
Sure - no problem. God couldn't care less what you HAVE. What he's VERY interested in is "What HAS YOU".

Jesus told the "Rich young ruler" to do exactly what He KNEW the poor guy COULDN'T DO because that's where his "Love" REALLY WAS. And Jesus wanted him to realize that. That the young ruler was RICH was unimportant. That his RICHES HAD HIM was the problem.

Simple as that.
 
and i would never pronounce on any individuals salvation

Nor have I. As I said, some very rich people "may" be surprised to see that the person that was their gardener in life, is now one of the megarich in Heaven. As Jesus said, the first shall be last.

I'm certainly NOT suggesting that rich people should go to Hell. For that matter, I'm not sure that anyone deserves or receives such a fate. The Bible is clear, however, that our heavenly rewards will vary based on our deeds in this life. No, deeds to not save us, but Jesus did talk of how we can build our "riches" in Heaven. No, not every person's heaven will be the same, at least not initially, I surmise.

My guess is that, in the hereafter, we will continue to learn and to grow and that, eventually, we can all be like Jesus in our ability to love perfectly.
 
I know im "rich", and i offer no defence, i have money in the bank, like most of us i saved for that "rainy day", i drive a car, i live a comfortable life free from want and hunger,

I don't believe that's an issue. I think the very few people that are extraordinarily generous to the less fortunate are going to be magnificently rewarded in Heaven. Those that are extraordinarily selfish are going to be much less rewarded in Heaven. None of this has anything to do with salvation, mind you. I'm not suggesting that one can buy their way into Heaven. That's not what I am saying. I AM saying that those who sacrifice more for their fellow man will likely receive more heavenly riches than others.
 
Nor have I. As I said, some very rich people "may" be surprised to see that the person that was their gardener in life, is now one of the megarich in Heaven. As Jesus said, the first shall be last.

I'm certainly NOT suggesting that rich people should go to Hell. For that matter, I'm not sure that anyone deserves or receives such a fate. The Bible is clear, however, that our heavenly rewards will vary based on our deeds in this life. No, deeds to not save us, but Jesus did talk of how we can build our "riches" in Heaven. No, not every person's heaven will be the same, at least not initially, I surmise.

My guess is that, in the hereafter, we will continue to learn and to grow and that, eventually, we can all be like Jesus in our ability to love perfectly.


I agree 100% ,,the example I like to give to drive home this point is. The missionary who sacrificed his entire life on earth is not more saved then the drug addict thief who gave his life to Jesus on his death bed. HOWEVER from my understanding of scripture the two will have very different treasures stored up in heaven waiting for them.

Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.


sounds to me we can actually take this earthly money or wealth that we have now, (and we know its going to be gone sooner or later) and send it ahead to heaven wear it will be eternal. Now thats what I call investing, with the best return possible.

Jesus spoke on money and possesions more then he spoke on heaven or hell, or prayer or faith !!!! it must be pretty important on how we handle these things. Especially those of us that he has entrusted it to in places like america wear making 40k a year puts you in the top Percentage earners in the world !!!!

I read a book called "money possessions and eternity" by Randy alcorn, and he uses the bible to show us our responsibity of using these things, This book changed my whole life. Literally.
 
I don't believe that's an issue. I think the very few people that are extraordinarily generous to the less fortunate are going to be magnificently rewarded in Heaven. Those that are extraordinarily selfish are going to be much less rewarded in Heaven. None of this has anything to do with salvation, mind you. I'm not suggesting that one can buy their way into Heaven. That's not what I am saying. I AM saying that those who sacrifice more for their fellow man will likely receive more heavenly riches than others.

exactly !! the bible also tells us to store up for a rainy day, so having savings is smart thing according to Gods word, its really a balancing act.

I can tell you one thing, I never had any money until I started giving it away. You can not out give God !!
 
James 2:1 My brethren, are you holding the faith of Jesus Christ our Lord of the glory with respect of persons?
2 For if a man come into your synagogue with a gold ring, in brilliant clothing, and a poor man also come in mean clothing;
3 and ye have regard to him that weareth the brilliant clothing, and say, Sit thou here in a good place; and ye say to the poor, THOU stand or sit there under my footstool;
4 did ye not discriminate among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren; did not God choose the poor as to the world to be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to them that love him?
6 But YE have dishonoured the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you, and themselves drag you before judgment-seats?
7 Do not THEY blaspheme the honourable name by which ye are called?
8 Howbeit if ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 but if ye have respect of persons, ye commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors.
 
1Cor 1:26 For look at your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are chosen;
27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he put to shame the wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he put to shame the strong;
noble = well born or high in rank
 
A simple question, but perhaps not such a simple answer........ in a World where Hundreds of Millions of Men women and children endure lives of abject poverty, barely surviving on less than $1.50 a day, when 7 million children die from hunger and Disease every year, when lives of suffering, oppression and exploitation blight the lives of so many,........ is it possible to be materially "Rich" and still claim to be a follower of Christ?

-
The word says that "poverty is the destruction of the poor".

And there is the theology of the self righteous, that teaches the "poverty gospel", whereby they try to pretend they are spiritual and mature because they have nothing.
This type of theology is the fruit of ignorance and heresy.

Let me show you , reader, some common sense.

God expects you to TITHE and GIVE to the POOR and give Offerings.
So, if God didnt want you to have money, and plenty of it, so that you can GIVE, then he would not ask you to give.
Listen..
God does not give out of His poverty......He gives out of His ""RICHES in Glory.""
Soloman was the RICHES man who ever lived, and GOD gave him the riches....
The word says that its God who give you the POWER to create wealth..
WEALTH is not just Spiritual,.. Its not just Health....... its Literal $$$$$ as well.
We are an HEIR of God and a Joint Heir with Jesus, and they are not BROKE....they are NOT in poverty..
Believe it.
So, if you are born again, then you are a part of al that God has........ as all the born again are "ONE with God", and "As Jesus IS, so are the born again IN THIS WORLD">..

Get the revelation...
 
Get the revelation...
Mark 4:14 The sower soweth the word.
18 And others are they sown among the thorns; these are they that have heard the word,
19 and the cares of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

The teaching of Jesus Christ to us all.
 
A simple question, but perhaps not such a simple answer........ in a World where Hundreds of Millions of Men women and children endure lives of abject poverty, barely surviving on less than $1.50 a day, when 7 million children die from hunger and Disease every year, when lives of suffering, oppression and exploitation blight the lives of so many,........ is it possible to be materially "Rich" and still claim to be a follower of Christ?
Absolutely! Can you show a scripture or two that says God wants you poor?
 
1Timothy 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain,
7 for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world.
8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.
9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
 
22 And when Jesus heard it, he said to him, One thing thou lack yet: sell all that thou hast, and distribute to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in the heavens, and come, follow me.
23 But when he heard these things, he became exceeding sorrowful; for he was very rich.
24 And Jesus seeing him said, How hardly shall they that have possessions enter into the kingdom of God!
25 For it is easier for a camel to enter in through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they that heard it said, And who can be saved?
27 But he said, The things impossible with men are possible with God.
28 And Peter said, Lo, we have left our own, and followed thee.
29 And he said to them, Amen I say unto you that there is none that hath left house, or wife, or brethren, or parents, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake,
30 who shall not receive manifold more in this season, and in the age to come eternal life.
Look especially at vs 29-30..

29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,

30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

I do wonder why so many Christians take this to mean we should be poor....

Jesus told the young man...."You're only lacking one thing to be perfect! Put me first"
 
Absolutely! Can you show a scripture or two that says God wants you poor?

no but neither can you show a scripture that says God wants us Rich,

BUt as @Waggles posted God clearly says it is best to be content,,,,,,, so if we take that a step further, if you are poor God say be content, if you are rich God says be content,,,, this is exactly what Paul the Apostle preached. The issue is not being rich or poor, the issue is not Being content IMO

Philippians 4:11-13
Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.
 
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