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"Rich" Christians?

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You know there often comes a time when our ideology, our view of Life , the way we think things should be , conflicts with Christs teachings. And then we have three choices, we change our way of thinking and acting and accept the Authority of the Saviour we profess to follow , we try to twist and corrupt his teachings to fit in with our world view, or we have to decide do we still want to be a disciple of Christ.

I have never said God committed Evil, those are your words, what i said was " Different times, Different Covenant", or are you again taking issue with Christs teachings because they dont fit into your view of how things should be, "The Gospel of Rhema" and not the "Gospel of Christ".

So these are Christs words not mine,
Matthew 5:17-48 King James Version
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Hopefully with the benefits of a Private education youll understand this, for as you say , " you get what you pay for", yep spoken like a true Capitalist.

but getting back to the topic of "Rich" Christians, again lets see what Christ, not me, has to say on the subject,

Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

and ,

Mark 10:17-25 King James Version

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

and

Luke 1:42-55 King James Version

42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

and

Luke 6:20-27 King James Version

20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

and

Luke 16:13-15 King James Version

13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

and

Luke 16:19-31 King James Version

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

and finally

Luke 19:1-10 King James Version

19 And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
2 And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
3 And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
4 And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


Now we could debate Economics and how we think things should be, but as Christians we are called to follow Christs teachings, and the teaching on this issue is clear, Christ taught that you cant be rich and a follower of his. Now if you want to disagree with that then i suggest you give me a text or verse where Christ explicitly says its Ok to be Rich and a follower of his, because ive yet to see one, If you cant, then i suggest you either change your way of thinking and follow Christs teaching or ask yourself do i really want to be a follower of his, because at the end of the day thats what it boils down to.
At this point you're just rehearsing the same lies over and gain. You've been warned , more than enough.
 
Forums always show the ones who believe they have the KEY to unlock Scripture.
 
Colossians 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
3:2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.
 
At this point you're just rehearsing the same lies over and gain. You've been warned , more than enough.

And what "lies" would they be, for im quoting Christ, his words in the Gospels, you should read them sometime, you might just learn something about the faith you profess to follow.

And whos "warning" me, you?, well if you give me some actual quotes from Christ to validate your beliefs then ill take them seriously, otherwise its just "The Gospel according to Hitch", and not the Gospel of Christ"
 
Forums always show the ones who believe they have the KEY to unlock Scripture.

Yeh ive found that to be so true, but push them to actually validate what they believe by quoting scripture to back up those beliefs, and they cant, because what they believe is based on their own personal views and ideologies, and not the words of the Saviour they profess to follow.
 
You've already been corrected more than the required amount.

Youve "corrected" me, or the words of Christ have corrected me, there is a big difference, but i reckon your arrogance and rigid ideology wont let you see that.

But ill ask one last time anyway, can you give me an explicit quote from Christ where he says that its OK to be rich and a follower of his, because if you cant then im just gonna have to say you've been trying to deceive me and others all along, which is exactly what Christ said Riches would do, vs 22 if you havent read it before.

Matthew 13:18-25 King James Version

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
 
The way I see the quotes in the gospel are NOT condemnation for the rich at all. It is condemnation for people who have placed there trust in there Riches.

Why do you think that Dave, where does Christ make the distinction between those that "trust in Riches" and the "Rich" in general?.

And if a Christian doesn't "trust in Riches" , why would they possess them?, Why, when the hungry and starving Christ ,who they profess to be their saviour, is before them in the hundreds of millions of the poor and oppressed around Gods world, would they store their Riches for themselves and not give them to ease Christs suffering?
 
Youve "corrected" me, or the words of Christ have corrected me, there is a big difference, but i reckon your arrogance and rigid ideology wont let you see that.

But ill ask one last time anyway, can you give me an explicit quote from Christ where he says that its OK to be rich and a follower of his, because if you cant then im just gonna have to say you've been trying to deceive me and others all along, which is exactly what Christ said Riches would do, vs 22 if you havent read it before.

Matthew 13:18-25 King James Version

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
LMAO
 
And what "lies" would they be, for im quoting Christ, his words in the Gospels, you should read them sometime, you might just learn something about the faith you profess to follow.

And whos "warning" me, you?, well if you give me some actual quotes from Christ to validate your beliefs then ill take them seriously, otherwise its just "The Gospel according to Hitch", and not the Gospel of Christ"
I had a look around and I couldnt find any comment you've made that wasnt false. So 'all of the above' .
 
Luke 19:8-9
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.


In Timothy it says nothing to the effect there is anything wrong with being Rich, matter fact it say God is the one who provided it and enjoy it... But as all through out the NT the Warnings about what happens if you do not put God first is set fourth.

If your Rich and a Christian it is easy to see to looking at your check book if your heart is in the right place. There are Christians that are wealthy and yet give God 90% of there income, and live off 10%.. I would focus more on the percent of money people give towards the Kingdom verses the amount of money they spend of thereself to see whear someones heart is. Some people are gifted at makings tons of money and use it for the Glory of God, and live very comfortably.

1 Timothy 6:17-18
Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 8 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.



Luke 12 really drive it home for me, God does not say anything about him being Rich as a negative, the negative that this man failed to do was NOT being rich towards God.. I read this parable and always think about the american dream, people plan for retirement here on earth, and put no thought about eternal life that waits for us. Wear we put are money is a litmus test, and is very telling wear are heart is.

Luke 12:16-21
16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest.
17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’
18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain.
19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’
20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’
21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”
 
Youve "corrected" me, or the words of Christ have corrected me, there is a big difference, but i reckon your arrogance and rigid ideology wont let you see that.

But ill ask one last time anyway, can you give me an explicit quote from Christ where he says that its OK to be rich and a follower of his, because if you cant then im just gonna have to say you've been trying to deceive me and others all along, which is exactly what Christ said Riches would do, vs 22 if you havent read it before.

Matthew 13:18-25 King James Version

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Im not the only one noticing your great concern (LOL) to quote Christ explicitly while being careful to avoid and even shun the very portions of
Scripture , the Law the Prophets and the Psalms, that He quoted.
 
When a man takes another's money, land, tools or anything without permission it is theft. This is true whether force is used or threatened or when its done by majority vote.
 
I think what troubles the likes of Rad and his hero Ron Sider about the Free Market is how well it works without them. They are parasites hiding in the ears of the unhappy.
So down the hill come George and Lenny, heading to Free Market. Today George wants a Snickers and it just so happens Lenny has several. George screams out I'll give you a buck for that Snickers Lenny! After 2 or 3 seconds of deep consideration Lenny screams back DEAL!. Lenny is happy because he made his first profit of the day. Strangely enough George is happy because he made his first profit of the day. Ron and Rad are unhappy because niether George nor Lenny needed or wanted their input (interference). George pulls out his thermos pours a coffee and slowly eats his Snickers , he's such a gentleman he even takes the wrapper off first. Lenny adds his newly gained buck to his savings for a tackle box. Ron and Rad complain to the Sherriff that no one should be allowed the amount of chocolate it takes to make a Snickers, that sugar could have been used to sweeten the coffee at a homeless camp. (under their strict supervision of course)
And so on.
 
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Greetings all,

thread closed for a few days or so.

It is not a nice read at all.

From what i see, some folk are keen to fault and forget the riches they have in Christ {if they indeed do} which should be more evident in how they communicate what is on their mind.
That equates to poverty, eternally.

Please consider the way you interact here at TalkJesus.
TalkJesus is not here for people to abuse with worldly attitude.

Post in Peace elsewhere also.


Bless you ....><>
 
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