Roman Catholicism vs Protestantism.

[Bob Tangent]

I don't like arguing the Bible or church traditions with Catholics - they are normally right and will always win, they have hundreds of years of scholars and theologians on their side. Bible teaching is usually pretty good and the evangelical and charity work is second to none really - Catholics have gone into nearly every country in the world, even in places that evangelicals are still trying to penetrate.

I have noticed that most arguments against Catholicism have nothing to do with Catholicism. People will argue against beliefs that are not held, or histories that are not real.

Emperor Constantine copied the idea of clergy from the pagan religions, and gave them exalted status and separated them from the rest of the believers.

I have seen no evidence or a change in clergy before after the legalization of Christianity by Constantine. Clergy existed prior to him in the form of bishops, priests, and deacons - as we read in the bible.

These clergy also needed a way to support themselves and this was the introduced "Christian tithe", or church tax. Anglican, Lutheran et al. also copied this practice, because they knew no better, and being a priest in society was a fairly cushy and highly respected vocation at the time.

Many priests took vows of poverty, some did not. I do not believe that church taxes existed for several more centuries, it is more of a middle ages thing.

Having been in Buddhist, Hindu and other pagan temples, they all have these things in common:
Pews (or hard seats), singing, prayer, and a special priestly class that perform the rites or service, and separation of the clergy from the laity, and giving of donations.

Like the jewish temple?

Many figurines of created and evil creatures, gods, demons, etcs - just like they have in Catholic Cathedrals.

Cathedrals have statues of saints.

That's why Catholic priests use holy water etc to ward off the evil in their churches. Buddhist and Hindu etc do the same thing.

Holy water is used to remind people of their baptism...

Why do Catholic Priests use holy water, candles, incense, and sign of the cross to ward off evil, and how is this not different to the pagan practices of Hinduism and others?

Holy water is used to remind people of their baptism. Candles are used to remember prayers. Incense is used to symbolize prayers rising to heaven. The sign of the cross is done to symbolize a person's openness to receiving grace.

I think it must work to some extent, but that's not the point. The point is it's pagan and these evil things are not supposed to be in the church to begin with.

I do not see how any of those things are pagan. All of those things were done by the early church and continued to be practiced. Christians worshiped in the catacombs where incense (due to the smell) and candles would have been a necessity.

If the Catholics could please explain why the Cathedrals of Europe have many superstitious things inside them, such as figurines of animals, that are supposed to be stroked to bring good luck, that are unrelated to the Bible or Christianity. Why they contain many sanctified superstitions of pagan Rome?[/QUOTE]

 

[james1523]

I have seen no evidence or a change in clergy before after the legalization of Christianity by Constantine. Clergy existed prior to him in the form of bishops, priests, and deacons - as we read in the bible.

To the contrary, see Clergy and Laity: Did Jesus Want a Two-tier Church? by H. Haag.

By the 3rd century 3 things happened: the meaning of the eucharist changed from a simple meal of remembrance to an elaborate "sacrifice" administered by a priestly order, the function of the many new testament ministries were channelled into a threefold ministry of bishop, presbyters and deacons, and these were formed into a hierarchy of an order of priests. Ecclesiology was changed to hierarchology.These became the Reverends, Eminences or Lords or "your Holiness" but did not exist in the new testament church. The New Testament shows that Jesus did not leave behind a hierarchy of priests to continue the Eucharist. The only time Jesus referred to priests was when talking about the Jewish priests, for whom He had little regard. Further evidence for this is that the Didache written in the 2nd century, does not mention priests in regard to the Eucharist.

 

[Bob Tangent]

To the contrary, see Clergy and Laity: Did Jesus Want a Two-tier Church? by H. Haag.

In what way do you find it contrary (and assuming factual)?

By the 3rd century 3 things happened: the meaning of the eucharist changed from a simple meal of remembrance to an elaborate "sacrifice" administered by a priestly order,

Is there any evidence that the Eucharist was offered by another other than an ordained person? The Eucharist became more 'elaborate' with the creation of above ground churches. Before then people generally met in homes and catacombs.

the function of the many new testament ministries were channelled into a threefold ministry of bishop, presbyters and deacons, and these were formed into a hierarchy of an order of priests.

Not sure what you are getting at here - all three existed and are mentioned in the NT.

Ecclesiology was changed to hierarchology.These became the Reverends, Eminences or Lords or "your Holiness" but did not exist in the new testament church.

I do not see how modern English titles are relevant here? Interestingly, all the NT writings were written from leaders to the people, so we really have no documentation for what they called their leaders - if they did.

The New Testament shows that Jesus did not leave behind a hierarchy of priests to continue the Eucharist. The only time Jesus referred to priests was when talking about the Jewish priests, for whom He had little regard. Further evidence for this is that the Didache written in the 2nd century, does not mention priests in regard to the Eucharist.

Priests are presbyters. Presbyter is the Greek spelling. The Eucharist, for churches that offer it, understand that it is through the apostles, which Jesus ordained and ordained other men, who became bishops, that priests are able to offer the Eucharist. The Didache does not mention a lot of things. It's a short document. It's not a set of instructions. Something like priests offering communion would have been practiced and well known - not something that needed to be explained to others.

 

[james1523]

The Vatican has officially announced that Jesus will not be coming back.

They believe Jesus was probably drunk at the time when he made those statements.

 

[B-A-C]

The "old" priesthood is no longer required.

Heb 7:12; For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.

All believers are priests now, there is no need for someone to do the sacrifices for us.

1 Pet 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
1 Pet 2:9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

All believers have access to the throne of grace now.

Heb 4:16; Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

God split the veil of the temple in two, giving all believers access to him, there is no need to go through another man (priest)

Matt 27:51; And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.

Any sacrifices that an earthly priest does for you cannot be perfect.

Christ is the high priest, but we have access to him, not just other priests.

Heb 4:15; For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 5:10; being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 6:20; where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 7:17; For it is attested of Him, "YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

Heb 7:22; so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Heb 7:23; The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
Heb 7:24; but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.

To be a perfect priest, is one of the reasons Jesus came, to have other priests is kind of like saying "Jesus isn't really good enough", I'll let a man do it.

Heb 7:25; Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26; For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;
Heb 7:27; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
Heb 7:28; For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever.

Heb 8:1; Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

In the old covenant, there was an inner sanctum, a "Holy of Holies" that people didn't have access to, not even priests had access to it, only the high-priest.

Heb 9:1 Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place.
Heb 9:3 Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies,
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron's rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant;
Heb 9:5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
Heb 9:6 Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship,
Heb 9:7 but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance.
Heb 9:8 The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing,

This is why the significance of the veil being rent in two is so important.

Heb 9:14; how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15; For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16; For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.

Heb 9:11; But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;

Heb 9:22; And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Heb 9:25; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
Heb 9:26; Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Heb 9:28; so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

It is impossible for sacrifices of earthly priests to cleanse us.

Heb 10:1; For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.
Heb 10:2; Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?
Heb 10:3; But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.
Heb 10:4; For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Only the sacrifice done by Christ can take away our sins.

Heb 10:11; Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;

No priests are required, we ourselves can enter the outer sanctum, the holy place!

Heb 10:19; Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:21; and since we have a great priest over the house of God,

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:31; It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

We ourselves are priests, all believers are. We have access to the Holy Place, We have access to Christ our high-priest, we don't need a priest (who himself is imperfect)
to confess to, to offer sacrifices for us, or to talk to God for us.

 

[B-A-C]

The sacrilege of Mass is that is a sacrifice, it has to be done by priests (one of the main duties of a priest is sacrifice) so in a sense, they are crucifying Jesus
over and over again.

Heb 7:27; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
Heb 9:12; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Heb 10:10; By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
1 Pet 3:18; For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

To keep re-crucifying Jesus, is to say that his death (once for all) wasn't good enough.

Unlike protestant communion, this isn't only a ceremony of remembrance, they actually believe the wine becomes Jesus' blood, and the bread becomes Jesus' blood.
It is an actual sacrifice.

 

[king1]

Just thought I would clarify a few things...



The Pope is only considered infallible on a few rare occasions on matters of faith. In much the way the apostles were sinners, but could speak infallibly about the faith.



Catholics believe the sacrifice was once, all Masses tap into the sacrifice, not redo it.



Mary is a mediatrix as anyone in Heaven is a mediator. Christ is the mediator, Mary offers prayers on behalf of people, along with the angels and saints.



Salvation by works is not what Catholics believe, but this is often said. That implies that one earns salvation. Catholics believe that salvation comes from Christ, through grace. In order to remain with Christ, good works keep up the faith and our relationship. The relationship needs to be fed, but it is not the good works.



You seem to be confusing two issues. Regarding sin, Catholics believe that God forgives sins through the Church.
Indulgences are something different, they are done to repair the damage caused by sin, sin which is already forgiven. Indulgences could not be sold and are not sold. Around the time of the Reformation some unfortunate individuals said that giving money was a 'sacrifice' and therefore could count as an indulgence.



That's not purgatory, or anything in Catholic theology. People go to either heaven or hell. Catholics believe that some will need to be purged of their sinful nature before entering heaven. This could be a place, a process, it is not specified.

Thank you I like your writing. I just have one thing which was
There is much debate around the veneration of Mary (praying to her, statues of her, praising her, etc..)
5. Salvation by works - Roman Catholics believe that good works are required for salvation.
Salvation by works is not what Catholics believe, but this is often said. That implies that one earns salvation. Catholics believe that salvation comes from Christ, through grace. In order to remain with Christ, good works keep up the faith and our relationship. The relationship needs to be fed, but it is not the good works.

I was taught that when Christ is us and we are consciously in Him the good works flow from us as the Fruit from the Branches Which Come from the vine.
John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."

Mat 7:15-17
15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.…

So if I say I am in Him and Him in me then the Fruit will tell it all.
Plus my own personal belief is that when we serve our fellow man we allow Christ Goodness and Grace to flow to world
Mind you not from us but allowing ourselves to be Instruments for him. This Brings Us Closer to Him and Feeds Our Soul.

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Thanks for clarifying these things. I will let your answers speak for themselves. As fate (or God) would have it, I had lunch with a Catholic priest friend of mine.
(Actually there were 3 priests and myself). I showed him your response (I hope you don't mind) he agreed with most of it. However in the case of mass, he did mention the reason a priest is required to do it, and the reason the transubstantiation was required was because it is indeed a sacrifice. However, like you he did not consider this to be a "new" sacrifice each time, but rather an "on-going" sacrifice.

But mass is little more than having Christ dead and helpless in a defeated position offering no salvation.
Keeping him in a state of shame

 

[king1]

The sacrilege of Mass is that is a sacrifice, it has to be done by priests (one of the main duties of a priest is sacrifice) so in a sense, they are crucifying Jesus
over and over again.

Heb 7:27; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
Heb 9:12; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Heb 10:10; By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
1 Pet 3:18; For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

To keep re-crucifying Jesus, is to say that his death (once for all) wasn't good enough.

Unlike protestant communion, this isn't only a ceremony of remembrance, they actually believe the wine becomes Jesus' blood, and the bread becomes Jesus' blood.
It is an actual sacrifice.

Brother why do you persecute what you only think you know did not Jesus say A house divided will fall yet the Catholic Church still is standing and even thriving maybe not as much in America or Europe but we all know that is the decline of society but if you add in 3rd world countries it is the fastest growing Church. We are Brothers in Christ but yet we and mean we cause in the Catholic Church I have heard the same types of things toward protestants which I don't appreciate either. Why can't we Love and respect each other. Instead of assuming we know the other believe we should should Just Ask. The enemy (satan) wants us divided.
Lets deal with facts
The Catholic Church was created we say by Christ.
The Protestant churchs broke off of that for whatever reason.
We both know the only way to the father is through the son.
Let us build on that. I believe that Jesus has a reason for both. I am Catholic and I Love my Protestant Brothers I believe that it is Thy will be done NOT my will be done.

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

I did not read all the responses in the thread but responding to the OP solely. As a man who grew up Catholic and spent 13 years in Catholic school, now a burn again non-denominational believer for 14 years, this is my stance:

Denominations do not come from God. Any belief or tradition or teaching outside the only Holy Bible becomes another doctrine, another religion and/or another denomination. It is wrong.

As for "are they Christians", let God decide. We're not called to judge like that nor figure it out.

Catholics have a different salvation than Eph 2:8 so that in itself is enough to know... and we are to judge them by their fruits according to God's judgements.... knowing someone by their fruit is making a judgement call about them but its not our judgement but Gods that tells us if those fruits are right or wrong......

And sorry I didnt ask you to delete the page... I didnt think it was anything just to put delete it...

 

[Listening]

Catholicism Vs true doctrine

First of all it should be made clear that true doctrine teaches the truth that Jesus alone is High Priest over the entire church
The papacy teaches itself to be supreme high priest over the universal church.

This is the Teaching of the man of sin
There should be no question or doubt in the mind of a true believer in jesus christ as son of God and Lord of all things and head of his body the church, that the pontiff is the man of sin.
For he says he himself is supreme pontiff over the universal church.
To not see that this claim by the papacy is the supreme blasphemy that st paul warned about is to be blinded by satan.

 

[Listening]

As for protesting the man of sin
That is obviously ok

But as for the kings that were once faithful servants of that man of sin
Who set up their own authorities over churches and then displayed the same fruits of murder as that man of sin
They prove themselves daughters of the mother of harlots that man of sin rules.

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

The daughters of the harlot are the reformed churches..they through people like luther are the offspring of the catholic church....

The man of sin is the devil not the antichrist...

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Brother why do you persecute what you only think you know did not Jesus say A house divided will fall yet the Catholic Church still is standing and even thriving maybe not as much in America or Europe but we all know that is the decline of society but if you add in 3rd world countries it is the fastest growing Church. We are Brothers in Christ but yet we and mean we cause in the Catholic Church I have heard the same types of things toward protestants which I don't appreciate either. Why can't we Love and respect each other. Instead of assuming we know the other believe we should should Just Ask. The enemy (satan) wants us divided.
Lets deal with facts
The Catholic Church was created we say by Christ.
The Protestant churchs broke off of that for whatever reason.
We both know the only way to the father is through the son.
Let us build on that. I believe that Jesus has a reason for both. I am Catholic and I Love my Protestant Brothers I believe that it is Thy will be done NOT my will be done.

King so you dont go by scripture vs catholic theology but by 'since they havent folded they must be godly' belief..... oh and when you pray to mary you can call it whatever you want but there is 1 mediator so either way your doing it in error.

 

[Listening]

The daughters of the harlot are the reformed churches..they through people like luther are the offspring of the catholic church....

The man of sin is the devil not the antichrist...

The man of sin comes in accordance with the workings of satan in the world
But scripture does not say satan is the man of sin.
Scripture says the man of sin will come after a Falling away a rebellion occurs
The rebellion of the bishop of rome against the church and backed with the full power of rome matches this.
The man of sin claims to be God in mans body (God's Temple) Who exalts himself above all that Is called god or worshipped.And obviously tries to be jesus christ as God was in christ the godhead was in jesus come in the flesh.
So key to the man of sin, is a claim to be in the place of God In the flesh jesus the messiah.
The blasphemous title of the position (seat) of the papacy ( which calls each man who in that seat ; jesus christ veiled in the flesh ; supreme pontiff ( high Priest) of the universal church ) In the place of God Almighty on earth and in place of ( vicar) of The Son Of God .
And so the Seat power title of The office of the Pope ( who is named Blasphemously supreme high Priest of the entire church and HOLY FATHER does the exact same blasphemous things the man of sin is said to do.

 

[Bendito]

The man of sin comes in accordance with the workings of satan in the world
But scripture does not say satan is the man of sin.
Scripture says the man of sin will come after a Falling away a rebellion occurs
The man of sin claims to be God in mans body (God's Temple) Nad he also exalts himself above all that Is called god or worshipped.And obviously tries to be jesus christ as God was in christ the godhead was in jesus come in the flesh.
So key to the man of sin, is a claim to be in the place of God .
The blasphemous title of the position (seat) of the papacy ( which calls each man who in that seat ; jesus christ veiled in the flesh ; supreme pontiff ( high Priest) of the universal church ) In the place of God Almighty on earth and in place of ( vicar) of The Son Of God .
And so the Seat power title of The office of the Pope ( who is named Blasphemously supreme high Priest of the entire church and HOLY FATHER does the exact same blasphemous things the man of sin is said to do.

I wonder if has occurred to anybody that the harlot is Babylon? And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
Babylon still exists. It's in Iran. Hmmmmm Check it out. You might just find it interesting.

 

[Listening]

I wonder if has occurred to anybody that the harlot is Babylon? And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
Babylon still exists. It's in Iran. Hmmmmm Check it out. You might just find it interesting.

Like you said, the mother of harlots, is headed by popes, and presides over daughter churches,
Iran etc has nothing to do with What are said to be christian churches connected to a MOTHER CHURCH
Who's foundation in ROME seven hills with its pagan kings and then an 8th king THE BEAST KING.
THE FOUNDATION OF THE ***** IS THAT WHICH SHE RIDES;
Ancient babylon is destroyed and no longer exists.

 

[Listening]

Thank you I like your writing. I just have one thing which was
There is much debate around the veneration of Mary (praying to her, statues of her, praising her, etc..)
5. Salvation by works - Roman Catholics believe that good works are required for salvation.
Salvation by works is not what Catholics believe, but this is often said. That implies that one earns salvation. Catholics believe that salvation comes from Christ, through grace. In order to remain with Christ, good works keep up the faith and our relationship. The relationship needs to be fed, but it is not the good works.

I was taught that when Christ is us and we are consciously in Him the good works flow from us as the Fruit from the Branches Which Come from the vine.
John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."

Mat 7:15-17
15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.…

So if I say I am in Him and Him in me then the Fruit will tell it all.
Plus my own personal belief is that when we serve our fellow man we allow Christ Goodness and Grace to flow to world
Mind you not from us but allowing ourselves to be Instruments for him. This Brings Us Closer to Him and Feeds Our Soul.

We are commanded to not murder
And are told to be angry with your brother is like murder. We are told to not judge and to not condemn.
Yet the catholic church says they are above such commands and did judge and did condemn and did murder.
Yet the roman catholic church says it is the true church and if you are outside it you are not in christ, yet it murdered 100 million christians who would not bow to the authority of its pope who claims to be supreme high priest ( Pontiff) of the universal church;
And we know that Jesus alone is the Great High Priest and for any man to claim to be is apostate and the man of sin.

 

[Listening]

King so you dont go by scripture vs catholic theology but by 'since they havent folded they must be godly' belief..... oh and when you pray to mary you can call it whatever you want but there is 1 mediator so either way your doing it in error.

Not folding to when jesus returns to destroy it ; Is what scripture says of the man of sin; the beast and its king; and the ***** That rides it is judged with fire; the ***** that has the beast With its seven pagan kings and its 8 th ( the beast king) as its foundation for it is what she rides.
The seven kings are not called beast kings
Only the 8th king is named as the BEAST KING.For it was to be become ruled by the beast king until The end of time, when it will be destroyed by Jesus, it was not to be ruled the the five fallen of the other two, but by the 8th.
Scripture tells us one of the seven kings Is for a reason.
It is telling us One Was in Johns Day at the time of his writing down the prophecy
That one was Emperor Domitian.

We show what the revelation says in order for them to come our of her.

 

[Curtis]

I see what I think that those on this thread are protestants.

Is anyone on this thread a catholic?

I was raised Roman Catholic, and baptized as a infant. Got saved in a "assemblies" of God Church (thank you Jesus) Baptized in the Holy Ghost, and I am now a member of the Body of Christ!! Oh happy day