Scripture is of no private interpretation
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B-A-C
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[KJV]
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Lucifer isn't a name, it's a title. Only King James derivatives use "Lucifer".
Is Satan Lucifer? Only God knows for sure, but he has similar attributes to another.
This passage is usually called a parallel prophecy, meaning it is speaking of two things at once.
Ezek 28:11; Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Ezek 28:12; Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Ezek 28:13; Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezek 28:14; Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15; Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezek 28:16; By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:17; Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Ezek 28:18; Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Ezek 28:19; All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
There really was a country named Tyre, and it really had a king. However, this king was a man. He wasn't in the Garden of Eden. ( Tyre didn't exist yet when the Garden of Eden still existed. )
This man wasn't a cherub ( angel ). This man wasn't on the Holy mountain of God. However the cherub was, and he was cast down out of it.
Luke 10:18; And he said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."
Rev 12:9' And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Lucifer isn't a name, it's a title. Only King James derivatives use "Lucifer".
Is Satan Lucifer? Only God knows for sure, but he has similar attributes to another.
This passage is usually called a parallel prophecy, meaning it is speaking of two things at once.
Ezek 28:11; Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Ezek 28:12; Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Ezek 28:13; Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezek 28:14; Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15; Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezek 28:16; By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:17; Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Ezek 28:18; Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Ezek 28:19; All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
There really was a country named Tyre, and it really had a king. However, this king was a man. He wasn't in the Garden of Eden. ( Tyre didn't exist yet when the Garden of Eden still existed. )
This man wasn't a cherub ( angel ). This man wasn't on the Holy mountain of God. However the cherub was, and he was cast down out of it.
Luke 10:18; And he said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."
Rev 12:9' And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
lentz
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Thank you brother.
Isaiah 14:14 says "I will ascend into heaven",therefore he was already on earth at the time. So calling it a coup or potential overthrow in heaven is not valid arguement.
I believe it to be an eartly king as scripture says and those descriptions used by God were symbolic.
Again my opinion
PloughBoy
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he did not say: I will ascend into heaven.
On earth I will be LIKE GOD and RULE HERE. GOD Owns ALL ETERNITY way Past Heaven where his Throne is at. Heaven and Eternity is Not the Same. 2 different places.
And the word heavens here means "HIGH ON Authority" on earth. like God is in Heaven.. I will be like him but On EARTH!.
Isaiah 14:14
New Living Translation
I will climb to the highest heavens
and be like the Most High.’I will climb to the Highest Positions on EARTH and be like the Most High who is in "Heaven"
I will climd to the highest heavens on earth and be like the Most High who is in "Heaven"
English Standard Version
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’
Berean Standard Bible
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”
King James Bible
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
New King James Version
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’
New American Standard Bible
‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’
NASB 1995
‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’
NASB 1977
‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
met·a·phor
noun
- a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
"her poetry depends on suggestion and metaphor"
Similar:
figure of speech
symbol
emblem
a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract.
"the amounts of money being lost by the company were enough to make it a metaphor foran industry that was teetering"
- the Bible is not hard for believers, but simple with very simple words, but we must not over do it. and look at the words very careful and slow, and do not over run the Words, ...look at each word and think slowly, about each one, take your time, you do not have to be in a hurry, For GOD Controls Time in Time and stopping Time while time is still moving. but yet stopped. and he knows who you are and your strong suits and your weak ones. so clam down read each word slowly.
lentz
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My mistake 14:13 "I will ascend into heaven"
PloughBoy
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Again it does not say "heaven" it says" heavens" 2 completely different words,, one means height and the other means where the throne of God is.
you are reading a English translation and not the very word of GOD, so we must really know the English syntax.
So elementary school was very important all of the English classes we took was there so we could learn How to Read the Bible in our own Language
Curtis
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Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
"I will ascend into heaven," You can not "ascend" into heaven unless you are not in heaven but on earth.
"I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" " He can not exalt his throne above the stars of God" unless you are first under the stars of God. Which means he was on earth.
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;" "You can not ascend above the clouds" unless you are first under the clouds. which also means he was on Earth.
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
"I will ascend into heaven," You can not "ascend" into heaven unless you are not in heaven but on earth.
"I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" " He can not exalt his throne above the stars of God" unless you are first under the stars of God. Which means he was on earth.
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;" "You can not ascend above the clouds" unless you are first under the clouds. which also means he was on Earth.
PloughBoy
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yes
Biblical, Imagery, met·a·phor
noun
- a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
"her poetry depends on suggestion and metaphor"
lentz
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So he was talking to a human being
PloughBoy
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don't try to analyze the stores in the Bible for now or interpreted it, read it and just enjoy the stories. enjoy the Bible.
Curtis
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No human being can ascend above the stars of God or the clouds.
lentz
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Thank you.
I will take it you are agreeing with me. That he was an eartly king and God was using symbolic descriptions.
Man still today try to exalt themselves into heaven and sit in Gods chair. We see it everyday.
Curtis
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There are principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, and spiritual forces in heavenly places that are unseen that have tremendous influence over different areas of this earth. If you want to see what they are up to then just look at what people are doing and you will see who is influencing them.
lentz
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I believe Satan is ruler of this world.
Those high places could refer to governments or even the mind
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience
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PloughBoy
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the "stars of God" here in the English language is 'Anthropomorphic" term. we read translations not the exact Word of GOD. for instants "The stars of GOD" are his best people on earth that represent him. "Jeremiah", "Noah", "Isaiah", "Elijah" "Elisha" the "Stars of GOD" the Congregation of GOD, God never had a church He Has A Congregation" not made with the hands of a man. and God's true People are "Saint" [his stars| Satan has his fakes that appears as" "Angels of Light" in The Church! His people in the church will rise above God true congregation who will be in Satan church made by the hands of man! they cannot enter "The CONGREGATION" that Christ is Building because you have to be "BORN" in it, you cannot believe your way in it. But the church you can. "Anthropomorphic"
Biblical, Imagery, met·a·phor "The ENGLISH Language" is whole lot more than a word. it is structure, that is why in the simple school we must take "English" for 12 years as kids to learn it, 12 years to learn the Common English language and Speech and Literature as kids "metaphors" Similes is a part of the English language we must as children. and not the advance English language Remember. I had 2 more years in College and a year in college in "Speech' more EnglishThe schools system started in The America, to teach children how to read the Bible and to read it to their families, mother and fathers brothers and sister, By "Puritan Calvinist" who started the American School system for that purpose only. then came "Commerce" and took Over. for secular schooling. "He Ascends Above The Stars..........ff The Clouds" Amos: "For the Clouds are the dust of his feet"
are the clouds the Dust of GOD's feet?have you for got, I haven't because at 26 years old when I got saved I got my high school English text book and refreshed The English language and when I wrote a book, I didn't have A GHOST WRITER" OF 4 editors to correct in the 4 editing process which cost a lot money for each editor! so I had to reteach my self.
and we are not talking about "writing skills" or spelling skills we are talking about "ENGLISH" and ENGLISH TransLations from a Specific Ancient Language that words never existed new words had to be created to express and idea or thought. Hello!
I know you learn all of this before you started reading your Bible, it is not like reading a regular book or a news paper and copying a word for word translation which is impossible with a ancient text, especially if there were not, a replacement word, you know this.
even the word "Bible" did not exist during the time of Moses Jesus or Paul
Bruce notes that John Chrysostom appears to be the first writer (in his Homilies on Matthew, delivered between 386 and 388) to use the Greek phrase ta biblia ("the books") to describe both the Old and New Testaments together.
PloughBoy
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A Brief History of Bible Translation - From Greek to English | Patterns of Evidence
Summary: Bible translation began early in the Christian era as part of the way to fulfill the Great Commission. But it wasn’t an easy road to get to today, where we have over 50 English Bible translations to choose from.
www.patternsofevidence.com
Jonathan_Gale
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He's labeled as Satan because he made the exact same claim to himself which the serpent told Eve in the Garden - "you shall be like God," and the serpent is positively identified as Satan in Rev. 12. Just because something is not explicitly stated in the Scripture doesn't mean it's false, Holy Spirit guides you to connect the dots and put two and two together.
Jonathan_Gale
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OK, then you tell me which "earthly king" can be cast out of heaven in Is. 14:12?
lentz
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I agree about connecting dots. Thats why i cant understand why people cant see the rapture of the church and Gods dealing with Israel during tribulation. The old testamen is full of it. Every book of prophecy .
And yes Satan is called Satan many times in revelation.
But that still does not mean he is called Lucifer in Isaiah.
Thanks brother
