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second coming
An interesting thought but only an idea is the notion that all souls are in waiting for the second coming...and it is only at that time that some go to heaven and the others go to hell - for that is the judgement
just my two cents - I don't put much credence in my ideas because they're not His and only He knows all
God bless
An interesting thought but only an idea is the notion that all souls are in waiting for the second coming...and it is only at that time that some go to heaven and the others go to hell - for that is the judgement
just my two cents - I don't put much credence in my ideas because they're not His and only He knows all
God bless
Secret Rapture?
Not being rude, but I say this with respect; I think it'll not be a secret since everyone who's destined to be raptured before Jesus step on earth will be much obvious because many will report people they know to be missing.
Secret because it'll happen like a thief in the night.
God blesses us all.
Not being rude, but I say this with respect; I think it'll not be a secret since everyone who's destined to be raptured before Jesus step on earth will be much obvious because many will report people they know to be missing.
Secret because it'll happen like a thief in the night.
God blesses us all.
Hey there Maureen its actually quite simple. we do not go to heaven the second we die or Hell we die and wait in the grave knowing nothing untill GOd comes to take us home. to us it will seem like a blink. Jesus called it a sleep. this whole idea of body and spirit being seperate comes out of context form analagies that Paul used to try and portray the battle between the carnal and spiritual nature.
Boanerges
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When we die our spirit goes immediately to be with God:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
The scripture only mentions (as far as I can see) the church being caught up at the last trump which is at the very end of Revelations.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
The scripture only mentions (as far as I can see) the church being caught up at the last trump which is at the very end of Revelations.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
carlos marquez
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Its a privilege to be tortured for Christ,a priveledge not everyone has been assigned to.
its a privilege to be boiled in oil alive
its a privilege to be crucified upsidedown
its a privilege to be decapitated
its a privilege to be hunted like wild animals
its a privilege to be inprisoned
its a privilege to have your body torched alive
If anyone was in need of a secrete rapture it should have been all the saints who paved
the way for all of us saints who who live in safety and relative ease.
There will not be a secret rapture.He said He would come and every eye would see and every knee would bow.
We will suffer many things including torture by demonic goverments be aware so that it wont suprise you when it does happen.
The way things are going,these mad scientist may have all people of faith rounded up for experimentation.
Hebrews 11:35-40.
Women received their dead raised to life again:and others were tortured,not accepting deliverence;that they might obtain a better resurrection:
And others had trials of cruel mockings and scourgings,yea,moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
They were stoned,they were sawn asunder,were tempted,were slain with the sword:they wandered about in sheepskins and goat skins;being destitute,afflicted,tormented;
(Of whome the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts,and in mountains,and in dens and caves of the earth.
And these all having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us,that they without us should not be made perfect.
It is through your faith in Christ that you will find comfort when when tribulation strikes,
do not look for secret rapture,the more we endure the bigger our reward,there is rewards by the way.
its a privilege to be boiled in oil alive
its a privilege to be crucified upsidedown
its a privilege to be decapitated
its a privilege to be hunted like wild animals
its a privilege to be inprisoned
its a privilege to have your body torched alive
If anyone was in need of a secrete rapture it should have been all the saints who paved
the way for all of us saints who who live in safety and relative ease.
There will not be a secret rapture.He said He would come and every eye would see and every knee would bow.
We will suffer many things including torture by demonic goverments be aware so that it wont suprise you when it does happen.
The way things are going,these mad scientist may have all people of faith rounded up for experimentation.
Hebrews 11:35-40.
Women received their dead raised to life again:and others were tortured,not accepting deliverence;that they might obtain a better resurrection:
And others had trials of cruel mockings and scourgings,yea,moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
They were stoned,they were sawn asunder,were tempted,were slain with the sword:they wandered about in sheepskins and goat skins;being destitute,afflicted,tormented;
(Of whome the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts,and in mountains,and in dens and caves of the earth.And these all having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us,that they without us should not be made perfect.
It is through your faith in Christ that you will find comfort when when tribulation strikes,
do not look for secret rapture,the more we endure the bigger our reward,there is rewards by the way.
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MiZZJuSTiFiED
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People need to be really careful where they get their information about the end times, where they are going when they die and Jesus second coming from because you know what, the devil will use anyone and anything to confuse you and to steer you away from the truth. Some of what I read here actually really horrified me and sadden me that, but that is what some people believe, so you have to respect that. But, you also have to believe the word of God, because GOD IS THE WORD, AND THE WORD IS GOD. Not some book Joe blow wrote about the rapture, a lot of it sounds good and especially the Greek translation of the Bible, that just is very sketchy to me. We do not know to this day where the additional books are from, and honestly, it could have been the devil trying to deceive us once again. I've been reading those books, just to see what they are about, and sure, they look like official books that were just like any other books written from that time, but a lot of false prophets and evangelists sound just like real ones until you really find out the truth. In these times we have to be so careful what we subject ourselves to.
Now a days, I really can only trust the Holy Spirit that dwells in me and if I have questions about something I pray to God and ask Him and ask Him for confirmation and within 1 or 2 days He sends confirmation, what I study in the bible, what I get out of my bible studies, what I get from the couple of churches I go to and that's about it.
Now a days, I really can only trust the Holy Spirit that dwells in me and if I have questions about something I pray to God and ask Him and ask Him for confirmation and within 1 or 2 days He sends confirmation, what I study in the bible, what I get out of my bible studies, what I get from the couple of churches I go to and that's about it.
carlos marquez
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2 Timothy 1:7.
For God has not given us the spirit of fear;but of power ,and of love ,and of a sound mind.
Hebrews 10:24-25.
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and good works:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,as the manner of some is;but exhorting one another: and so much the more,as ye see the day approaching.
There is a fellow by the name of (Harold Camping)Who teaches,that the church age is over,so Harold persuades folks to leave the church and gather around his teachings.
The bible calls on every believer to test all things to see if they are of God.
1 John 4:1.
Beloved,believe not every spirit,but try the spirits wether they are of God:because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
As Christian men and women,we need not grow wearry.By being found in Christ we are not only safe, but we are secure from all alarm.
and we are well equipped to wage a good warfare.God has gifted His Church with thousands of men and women who spend day and night studying in preparation for a defense of the gospel.I praise the Lord for the people involved in apologetics,Im learning from them to take my faith more serious.
I am not afraid or paranoid of things happening or things to come,because I am assured that nothing shall separate us from the love of God.
For God has not given us the spirit of fear;but of power ,and of love ,and of a sound mind.
Hebrews 10:24-25.
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and good works:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,as the manner of some is;but exhorting one another: and so much the more,as ye see the day approaching.
There is a fellow by the name of (Harold Camping)Who teaches,that the church age is over,so Harold persuades folks to leave the church and gather around his teachings.
The bible calls on every believer to test all things to see if they are of God.
1 John 4:1.
Beloved,believe not every spirit,but try the spirits wether they are of God:because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
As Christian men and women,we need not grow wearry.By being found in Christ we are not only safe, but we are secure from all alarm.
and we are well equipped to wage a good warfare.God has gifted His Church with thousands of men and women who spend day and night studying in preparation for a defense of the gospel.I praise the Lord for the people involved in apologetics,Im learning from them to take my faith more serious.
I am not afraid or paranoid of things happening or things to come,because I am assured that nothing shall separate us from the love of God.
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So we don't go to Heaven immediately after our bodies die?
Many people who have died and come back to life claim they were in Heaven. A couple people that I've seen on youtube said they shot right directly into that realm instantanously.
I really don't know what to believe about that.
Many people who have died and come back to life claim they were in Heaven. A couple people that I've seen on youtube said they shot right directly into that realm instantanously.
I really don't know what to believe about that.
Gracealone
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The last trump mention here is not the last trumpet of Revelation 11:15, but the last trump of 1Thes.4:16 it is so designated because it signals the end of the present age.
Two groups are distinguished . The dead in Christ shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. The term 'dead' refers to those who have died in Christ,. The term 'we' refers to those who are still living at the time of the rapture.
1 Thes.5:9 tells us ;
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our lord Jesus Christ...........comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as you so do........(?)
We keep trying Lord :thumbs_up:friends:
carlos marquez
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Isaiah 57:1.(KJV)
The rightious perisheth,and no man layeth to heart:and merciful men are taken away,none consider that the rightious is taken away from the evil to come.
The rightious perisheth,and no man layeth to heart:and merciful men are taken away,none consider that the rightious is taken away from the evil to come.
DeeperStill
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once again I cannot vote on the poll. Reason: the question asks if i believe in a SECRET rapture.
While I do believe in the pre-tribulation snatching away of the bride of Christ, I do not believe it is a secret. I believe God's word is clear and the truth of the snatching away is there for all to see who will to see it.
What is secret is when this will happen. We do not know the time : day, hour or minute that this snatching away will occur.
T
While I do believe in the pre-tribulation snatching away of the bride of Christ, I do not believe it is a secret. I believe God's word is clear and the truth of the snatching away is there for all to see who will to see it.
What is secret is when this will happen. We do not know the time : day, hour or minute that this snatching away will occur.
T
I believe that "The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the arch-angel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:16,17
I don't see how it can be a secret when there will be bodies rising from their graves, babies disappearing from all the hospitals, from cribs in homes, from women's arms, and millions of people suddenly disappearing all over the world. Some will be driving, and the car will crash. Some could be driving a bus or a train or flying an airplane. I seriously doubt that it will be a secret with no one noticing that their loved ones are gone. I'm sure many will witness the sudden disappearance of someone they're working with, sleeping with, talking to, a wife or husband they're having sex with, and various other situations.
There will be a "Rapture", or a "calling away of the church of Christ", but it won't be a secret. Matthew 24 speaks of the time that Jesus returns to the earth (He stays in the air during the Rapture). That scripture is not about the rapture but about His return to set up His 1,000 year reign. People often misuse that scriptrue to mean the rapture, but it's about Christ's return to the earth and NOT the rapture.
At that time he will remove all non-Christians and cast them into hell, and then He will begin His 1,000 year reigh. During that 1,000 years the devil will be bound and unable to do anything on earth.
I don't see how it can be a secret when there will be bodies rising from their graves, babies disappearing from all the hospitals, from cribs in homes, from women's arms, and millions of people suddenly disappearing all over the world. Some will be driving, and the car will crash. Some could be driving a bus or a train or flying an airplane. I seriously doubt that it will be a secret with no one noticing that their loved ones are gone. I'm sure many will witness the sudden disappearance of someone they're working with, sleeping with, talking to, a wife or husband they're having sex with, and various other situations.
There will be a "Rapture", or a "calling away of the church of Christ", but it won't be a secret. Matthew 24 speaks of the time that Jesus returns to the earth (He stays in the air during the Rapture). That scripture is not about the rapture but about His return to set up His 1,000 year reign. People often misuse that scriptrue to mean the rapture, but it's about Christ's return to the earth and NOT the rapture.
At that time he will remove all non-Christians and cast them into hell, and then He will begin His 1,000 year reigh. During that 1,000 years the devil will be bound and unable to do anything on earth.
PaladinGirl
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I don't believe in a "rapture" at all. I do, however, believe in the second coming of Jesus.
dchildress
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Secret!
I know that every eye will see him but it still causes men to be blind from the truth now. So I feel its a secret until its to late! dchildress
I know that every eye will see him but it still causes men to be blind from the truth now. So I feel its a secret until its to late! dchildress
OneHeart4Jesus
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Good question.
One would think that as wide spread as bibles are nowdays that the ones who seek the truth can find it. Not counting all the information that has been put online.
When one is truely hungry for something they search till they find it, whether its food for the body or the spirit.
Faith4Bride
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The rapture is not secret but the TIMING of it is somewhat secret.
Jesus comes like a thief- to those in darkness- it will overtake them. But we in the light will be found expecting, watching, waiting and sober. We will not know the day of the hour but we most certainly can know the season and very close timing.
We see a picture of the resurection/rapture in revelation and it is beautiful and truly our enemies will behold us.
Rev 11:11 ¶ And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
It will overtake the wicked like a thief, they will not have expected it but when it comes they will fear and mourn and see it happen.
It will NOT be like the movies when people just disappear. Even when Jesus ascended to heaven they watched it happen, he was taken up in a cloud and it was not so fast that it was unseeable.
We are told we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not told that we will ascend in the twinkingling of an eye. The dead will be raised in a twinkling, changed in such but just like we saw in rev 11 after they raise to their feet the enemies SEE us ascend to heaven.
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jesus comes like a thief- to those in darkness- it will overtake them. But we in the light will be found expecting, watching, waiting and sober. We will not know the day of the hour but we most certainly can know the season and very close timing.
We see a picture of the resurection/rapture in revelation and it is beautiful and truly our enemies will behold us.
Rev 11:11 ¶ And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
It will overtake the wicked like a thief, they will not have expected it but when it comes they will fear and mourn and see it happen.
It will NOT be like the movies when people just disappear. Even when Jesus ascended to heaven they watched it happen, he was taken up in a cloud and it was not so fast that it was unseeable.
We are told we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not told that we will ascend in the twinkingling of an eye. The dead will be raised in a twinkling, changed in such but just like we saw in rev 11 after they raise to their feet the enemies SEE us ascend to heaven.
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
shipwrecksoul
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Who's eye?
Will the Lord see the rapture? You bet!
Does he know whats in the heart of the unbeliever? You bet!
Lets not forget the people left behind who where so close to the truth and now all of a sudden all the believers are gone, kind of makes it look like when Jesus ascended into heaven after he arose from the dead!
Lets not forget the two good guys, the witnesses spoken about in revelation. Some say it will be Moses or Elijah!
Lets not forget all the countless millions of bibles left behind to warn! Lets not forget all of the recorded ministries left behind that warned of the approaching day!
Will believers arise after we head home upstairs? Yes and yes again!!
God reasons with the heart.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,...
To All Men!! :wink:
Will the Lord see the rapture? You bet!
Does he know whats in the heart of the unbeliever? You bet!
Lets not forget the people left behind who where so close to the truth and now all of a sudden all the believers are gone, kind of makes it look like when Jesus ascended into heaven after he arose from the dead!
Lets not forget the two good guys, the witnesses spoken about in revelation. Some say it will be Moses or Elijah!
Lets not forget all the countless millions of bibles left behind to warn! Lets not forget all of the recorded ministries left behind that warned of the approaching day!
Will believers arise after we head home upstairs? Yes and yes again!!
God reasons with the heart.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,...
To All Men!! :wink:
Faith4Bride
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The rapture occurs AFTER the saints in Christ rise from the dead- Then THEY along with those who are alive and remain are caught up TOGETHER to meet the Lord.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
So the resurection of the dead happens FIRST - THEN those who are alive are caught up TOGETHER with them.
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
WHen the resurection of the dead happens and they with us put on incorruption- death is swallowed up and no longer has power over any believer.- There are no more saved beleivers AFTER this point because the resurection has already happened and death is overcome. Verses 21-30 show us this happens directly at the resurection of the dead- at His coming. Not 7 yrs before.
Now All believers who were dead- are resurected at the same time. They are in the FIRST RESURECTION. and Revelation shows us that in THAT first resurection is believers who were beheaded for Jesus and who did not take the mark of the beast or worship the image.
Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
ALL believers who will ever ever believe must have already believed, and either be dead or alive already at the time of His coming so they get resurected at the same time, in the first resurection.
Now if this FIRST resurrection has believers in Christ who were beheaded for Jesus and did not worship the image or take the mark in the great trib that means this FIRST resurection is after the tribulation.- There is NO other resurrection for beleivers- ever-
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
So the resurection of the dead happens FIRST - THEN those who are alive are caught up TOGETHER with them.
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
WHen the resurection of the dead happens and they with us put on incorruption- death is swallowed up and no longer has power over any believer.- There are no more saved beleivers AFTER this point because the resurection has already happened and death is overcome. Verses 21-30 show us this happens directly at the resurection of the dead- at His coming. Not 7 yrs before.
Now All believers who were dead- are resurected at the same time. They are in the FIRST RESURECTION. and Revelation shows us that in THAT first resurection is believers who were beheaded for Jesus and who did not take the mark of the beast or worship the image.
Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
ALL believers who will ever ever believe must have already believed, and either be dead or alive already at the time of His coming so they get resurected at the same time, in the first resurection.
Now if this FIRST resurrection has believers in Christ who were beheaded for Jesus and did not worship the image or take the mark in the great trib that means this FIRST resurection is after the tribulation.- There is NO other resurrection for beleivers- ever-
