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Dear Sister,
The rapture is absolutely no secret, because Jesus Himself mentioned the fact that many people will mourn when they see Him come to take His chosen ones away (Matthew 24:30-31). They will mourn because they know that they will be condemned.
God bless you.
:agree: I agree. I don't believe the rapture will be any secret. I'm so looking forward to Christ's return. It says in the Word that every eye will see Him. That's not going to be any secret....
Tusk Barnes
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The rapture is unbiblical.
Brighthouse
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As far as the rapture.Here are 3 scriptures I know Matt 24:50!!, 1 thess 5:2-3 and rev 3:3 after looking at all 3 of these,I have determined this. Each day we live draws us closer to our jesus,so in knowing this,would we not live each day for him?For if we truly expect him to come, then will not our lives show this to others,in both words and deeds? I believe they do. I strive each day,in everything I say and do,expecting,For jesus said he comes back at a time when man think not!! And today is as good as any to me! So let us love oneanother today,for tomorrow may be to late. rom 13:11-14 The point is my fellow believers,to be ready,so when he does come,we will have great joy on our knees before him.
No, there is no biblical evidence to support such an idea.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
(1Th 4:16-17 NKJV)
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
(Rev 20:4-6 NKJV)
Stickz
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I voted no in the poll, and yet I do believe that there will be a "rapture", if that is what you want to call it; I prefer to call it the resurrection as that is what Jesus called himself. He said, "I am the resurrection and the life," not the "rapture" and the life. When people use the word 'rapture' they are almost always referring to the pretribulation rapture, which I do not believe is going to happen.
The word 'harpazo' does, in fact, show up in the Greek texts, and the word does, in fact, mean "caught up" or "taken by force", but look at the thirteen verses and their context in which the word shows up in:
Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which is sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
John 10:28 And I gave unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him to the castle.
II Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, ( whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
II Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
I Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jude 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
So, the word 'rapture' isn't really the issue here, it's the timing of the event that is the problem.
The last trump mentioned here is not the last trump of Revelation 11:15, but the last trump of I Thessalonians 4:16? How many trumps are in I Thessalonians 4:16?
I Thessalonians 4:16 and I Corinthians 15:52 are referring to the exact same trump, and both chapters are on the last days. There is only one place in the entire Bible that discusses trumpets sounding in the last days, and that is in the book of Revelation. And pretribbers decide to believe that Paul must have been talking about another last trump that takes place at another time?
Would you say then, Gracealone, that people who believe that the last trump being referred to here is the one in Revelation, are twisting the scripture to make it mean what they want? That the most obvious answer here is not the trump in Revelation? Or, would you at least admit that it is, in fact, the most obvious thought here?
Had Paul not used the word 'last' here, you would have some ground to stand on. Why didn't he make himself a little more clear by saying, "the last trump of X", if he hadn't meant the very last trump that anyone would hear? Two more words would have made all the difference. I'm going to stick with the trump of Revelation, myself, and try to prepare myself the best that I can.
As for your statement about God not appointing believers to wrath, are you saying that God couldn't pour his wrath out on the earth and avoid hitting you? You wouldn't have made it in the days of Moses or Noah. Besides, there is a difference between 'tribulation' and 'wrath'.
"who will to see it." is a good choice of words.
Let's look at a set of verses:
I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
I Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
I Corinthians 15:55 O DEATH, WHERE IS THY STING? O GRAVE, WHERE IS THY VICTORY?
If we dig back a little in that same chapter we see this set of verses:
I Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
I Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
I Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
There's that word again: last.
I Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
I Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
How many times will death be defeated?
Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Then some further thought:
Revelation 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.
I find the placement of this verse and it's context very interesting.
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, AND OF HIS CHRIST; AND HE SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER.
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Do they see Him?
Then notice similarities in these two verses and their context:
Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Revelation 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Two separate events? Perhaps. But I don't believe so.
I believe that there will be one "rapture", one calling up. I believe that when the two witnesses are called up ( Revelation 11:12) that will be when everyone else is called up as well. One event.
Donnie Ducati
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Rapture , resurrection ....the same event.
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Dead people are "resurrected".....those that are alive and remain will be "raptured".
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Dead people are "resurrected".....those that are alive and remain will be "raptured".
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Ophel
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Yep---you got it!
Scripture Supporting Rapture
Rapture... The blessed hope of every believer!
What is the rapture?
The rapture is the blessed hope of every believer. It is when Jesus comes back for His church, His bride{His true believers}. This will happen before tribulations start. We will be caught up into the air to meet Jesus. We will be changed into eternal immortal form that has real substance.The rapture is instantaneous, one moment we will be going about our daily lives here on Earth; the next moment we will be hurtled into the presence of God and departed loved ones. Then we will go with Jesus to the homes which He has prepared for us in Heaven.
What does scripture say about rapture?
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who have fallen asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will come down from Heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Corinthians 15:49-54
And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. I declare to you brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable and the mortal with immoratality. When the perishable is raised imperishable, and the mortal with the immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: Death has been swallowed up in victory.
Luke 17:26-36
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed then all.
It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfer rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
It will be just like this on the day Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lots wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.
Matthew 24:36-44
No one knows the day or the hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark and they knew nothing of what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Therefore keep watch , because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the theif was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him.
Luke 21:34-36
Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drukenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you will be able to stand before the Son of Man.
Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up to heaven and He sat at the right hand of God. {One day we will be taken up too!}
John 14:1-3
Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, trust also in me. In my Fathers house there are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you may also be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.
Rapture... The blessed hope of every believer!
What is the rapture?
The rapture is the blessed hope of every believer. It is when Jesus comes back for His church, His bride{His true believers}. This will happen before tribulations start. We will be caught up into the air to meet Jesus. We will be changed into eternal immortal form that has real substance.The rapture is instantaneous, one moment we will be going about our daily lives here on Earth; the next moment we will be hurtled into the presence of God and departed loved ones. Then we will go with Jesus to the homes which He has prepared for us in Heaven.
What does scripture say about rapture?
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who have fallen asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will come down from Heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Corinthians 15:49-54
And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. I declare to you brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable and the mortal with immoratality. When the perishable is raised imperishable, and the mortal with the immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: Death has been swallowed up in victory.
Luke 17:26-36
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed then all.
It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfer rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
It will be just like this on the day Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lots wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.
Matthew 24:36-44
No one knows the day or the hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark and they knew nothing of what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Therefore keep watch , because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the theif was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him.
Luke 21:34-36
Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drukenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you will be able to stand before the Son of Man.
Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up to heaven and He sat at the right hand of God. {One day we will be taken up too!}
John 14:1-3
Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, trust also in me. In my Fathers house there are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you may also be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.
The dead in Christ are with HIM NOW! Of course they rise first !
Our flesh bodies return to the dust of the earth .They are part of this planet !
We get new bodies to dwell in forever more ,like His!
Rom_7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing
He only makes perfect things out of nothing! He never uses old junk to make New things!
We see in scripture, being talking in heaven to him and each other!
They have to have new bodies to wear robes!
Rev_7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev_7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev_7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Not yet appear? Means nothing we see here is how we will look!
Our house is our new body!
2Co_5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
Ecc_3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust‡†, and all turn to dust‡† again.
Ecc_12:7 Then shall the dust‡† return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
This is the way Jesus looked before He created the earth!
Dan_7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
This is the way He looks in New Jerusalem
Rev_1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters
It appears the same to me ! Also we will appear as He does now?
Act_2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Pretty sure David is one of the elders in heaven now!
Rev_4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
We know for sure 12 are the disciples! the other 12 i guess must come from the old testament?
Our flesh bodies return to the dust of the earth .They are part of this planet !
We get new bodies to dwell in forever more ,like His!
Rom_7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing
He only makes perfect things out of nothing! He never uses old junk to make New things!
We see in scripture, being talking in heaven to him and each other!
They have to have new bodies to wear robes!
Rev_7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev_7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev_7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Not yet appear? Means nothing we see here is how we will look!
Our house is our new body!
2Co_5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
Ecc_3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust‡†, and all turn to dust‡† again.
Ecc_12:7 Then shall the dust‡† return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
This is the way Jesus looked before He created the earth!
Dan_7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
This is the way He looks in New Jerusalem
Rev_1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters
It appears the same to me ! Also we will appear as He does now?
Act_2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Pretty sure David is one of the elders in heaven now!
Rev_4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
We know for sure 12 are the disciples! the other 12 i guess must come from the old testament?
::PreciousinChrist::
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When the LORD delivered the Israelites from Egypt and divided the Red Sea, was it done in secret? No... all their enemies saw them go!
Likewise, When The Lord Jesus returns we shall be caught up with Him in the air to be with Him forever.
It shall be glorious and all our foes shall see us depart from the earth!
Hallelujah!
Likewise, When The Lord Jesus returns we shall be caught up with Him in the air to be with Him forever.
It shall be glorious and all our foes shall see us depart from the earth!
Hallelujah!
I doubt people will see our LORD in the air or our Spirit going up! I have no scripture either way! But we do know the spirits of just people go up all the time! Which we never see that ! I Do not think the LORD going to be close to the earth? How far up He calls us? I Do Not know!
i do not think New Jerusalem comes into our space , Until after He creates a New Heavens and earth! It appears the Heavens are corrupted now!
I sure The old heaven was corrupted when the fallen angles entered it, that where i believe the two wittiness's are ! Because nothing evil can enter New Jerusalem !
He not coming for a show! He only coming in the air to get us , to keep us from the wrath of god upon this planet!
if mankind saw HIM? Then most would repent i think! A false repenting?
That would no longer be by Faith , i think?
and He has declared that the just live by Faith ! believing what we do not see! but these are only my thinking on this ! anyone can disagree with it!
i do not think New Jerusalem comes into our space , Until after He creates a New Heavens and earth! It appears the Heavens are corrupted now!
I sure The old heaven was corrupted when the fallen angles entered it, that where i believe the two wittiness's are ! Because nothing evil can enter New Jerusalem !
He not coming for a show! He only coming in the air to get us , to keep us from the wrath of god upon this planet!
if mankind saw HIM? Then most would repent i think! A false repenting?
That would no longer be by Faith , i think?
and He has declared that the just live by Faith ! believing what we do not see! but these are only my thinking on this ! anyone can disagree with it!
By the way ?No one saw the LORD divide the red sea! You know we never see the gift only the Results that we have them!
There are lots of things we cannot be 100% Sure of! But the scriptures are always true! We might not have the perfect understanding of them Always! but I know they are correct!
There will be lots of flesh bodies of the saints on the ground ,all over the world! The spirit of these have gone Up! This will give the governments the chance to gain full control! They will make up stories why these people died?
We are Very close to the Catching Away!.
There are lots of things we cannot be 100% Sure of! But the scriptures are always true! We might not have the perfect understanding of them Always! but I know they are correct!
There will be lots of flesh bodies of the saints on the ground ,all over the world! The spirit of these have gone Up! This will give the governments the chance to gain full control! They will make up stories why these people died?
We are Very close to the Catching Away!.
Ophel
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You have a lot of things right, but there won't be any flesh bodies of Christians lying anywhere, because our bodies (dead and alive) will be taken up as is, and changed to glory. What the world will witness is our baffling disappearance. Piles of clothing, false teeth and fillings, spectacles, wigs, breast implants, bone screws, and prostheses of all types will drop to the ground where we once stood!
The world will be plunged immediately into panic. The story the world must come up with is not how any of us died, but where and how we vanished. The living will disappear and the dead's graves will be violently opened and disturbed, so cemeteries will be in complete disarray. The world will be completely spooked.
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