Should I Always Forgive Everyone in Every Way?

[Spockrates]

I'd like to come up with a general principle to live by and forgive by. Should I always forgive, or sometimes withhold forgiveness? Should I forgive everyone, or forgive only some? Should I forgive everything, or only some things?

I think these are important questions, because Jesus seems to say only those who forgive will be forgiven:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

(Matthew‬ 6‬:15‬)

Any thoughts will be appreciated, and forgive me if I have additional questions for you if you reply.

 

[Spockrates]

Bumping this one.

 

[Hekuran]

Hi Spockrates,
What are your own thoughts on the issue?

 

[Spockrates]

Hi, Hekuran: My first thought is that forgiveness is a kind of love, for it is certainly loving. My second thought is that it might, at least sometimes be a kind of conditional love. For if-then statements are conditional.

"But IF you do not forgive...[THEN] your Heavenly Father will not forgive... ."

(Matthew 6:15)

 

[Strypes]

Jesus gave a parable about a man that owed a lot of money. He couldn't pay and the king forgave him the debt.

Sometime later the man who was forgiven, remembered a guy owed him some money and demanded he pay up or else..

I would encourage you to find that parable and see how that all turned out.

 

[Spockrates]

Jesus gave a parable about a man that owed a lot of money. He couldn't pay and the king forgave him the debt.

Sometime later the man who was forgiven, remembered a guy owed him some money and demanded he pay up or else..

I would encourage you to find that parable and see how that all turned out.

Hi, Strypes. I think you must mean this story.

32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

(Matthew 18)

Do you think Jesus is saying we must forgive everyone for everything, lest we fail to forgive just one and are never forgiven by God for our momentary lack of forgiveness?

 

[Strypes]

Do you think Jesus is saying we must forgive everyone for everything, lest we fail to forgive just one and are never forgiven by God for our momentary lack of forgiveness?

"Do you think Jesus is saying we must forgive everyone for everything". period, end of sentence. Yes.

It is a matter of the heart. We choose to forgive because we are ourselves forgiven. Not of just some or most but of ALL our sins. Jesus instructs us to love as He has loved us. ( John 15:12 )

 

[Strypes]

If you need some inspiration to forgive someone that has wronged you, check out the song "Forgiveness" by Matthew West. It is inspired by a woman who forgave her child's murderer.

"Even when the jury and the judge say that you have the right to hold a grudge, It's the whisper in your ear saying 'set it free'"

Awesome lyric!

The whole song...

It's the hardest thing to give away
And the last thing on your mind today
It always goes to those who don't deserve

It's the opposite of how you feel
When the pain they caused is just too real
It takes everything you have to say the word...

Forgiveness
Forgiveness

It flies in the face of all your pride
It moves away the mad inside
It's always anger's own worst enemy
Even when the jury and the judge
Say you gotta right to hold a grudge
It's the whisper in your ear saying 'set it free'

Forgiveness, Forgiveness
Forgiveness, Forgiveness

Show me how to love the unlovable
Show me how to reach the unreachable
Help me now to do the impossible
Forgiveness, Forgiveness
Help me now to do the impossible
Forgiveness

It'll clear the bitterness away
It can even set a prisoner free
There is no end to what its power can do
So let it go and be amazed
By what you see through eyes of grace
The prisoner that it really frees is you

Forgiveness, Forgiveness
Forgiveness, Forgiveness

Show me how to love the unlovable
Show me how to reach the unreachable
Help me now to do the impossible
Forgiveness

I want to finally set it free
So show me how to see what Your mercy sees
Help me now to give what You gave to me
Forgiveness, Forgiveness
Forgiveness, Forgiveness
Forgiveness

Artist
Matthew West

 

[Spockrates]

"Do you think Jesus is saying we must forgive everyone for everything". period, end of sentence. Yes.

It is a matter of the heart. We choose to forgive because we are ourselves forgiven. Not of just some or most but of ALL our sins. Jesus instructs us to love as He has loved us. ( )

Strypes:

I appreciate your helping me think this through. Thank you!



The passage you quoted:

12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. "

(John 15)

It seems to me that Jesus is saying:

1. He laid down his life so that his friends would be forgiven (verse 13).

2. His friends are those who do what he commands (verse 14).

From these premises, the logical inferences appear to be:

3. Those who refuse to do what he commands are not his friends

4. Those who are not his friends are not forgiven

The logical conclusion of these four premises seems to me to be:

Only those who do what Jesus commands are forgiven.

How does it seem to you?

 

[Spockrates]

If you need some inspiration to forgive someone that has wronged you, check out the song "Forgiveness" by Matthew West. It is inspired by a woman who forgave her child's murderer.

"Even when the jury and the judge say that you have the right to hold a grudge, It's the whisper in your ear saying 'set it free'"

Awesome lyric!

The whole song...

Good song! I especially like the words:

"Show me how to love the unlovable."

It seems to me that is the goal of this discussion, which is to answer this question: "How do I forgive the unforgivable?"

By how I don't mean, "How do I get the strength to forgive?" Instead I mean, "In what way should I forgive?" Now the song mentions not holding a grudge, and I take this to mean to not continue to feel resentment and anger. But is this all that forgiveness is? Or is forgiving more than a feeling? What are your thoughts?

 

[Strypes]

It seems to me that Jesus is saying:

1. He laid down his life so that his friends would be forgiven (verse 13).

2. His friends are those who do what he commands (verse 14).

From these premises, the logical inferences appear to be:

3. Those who refuse to do what he commands are not his friends

4. Those who are not his friends are not forgiven

The logical conclusion of these four premises seems to me to be:

Only those who do what Jesus commands are forgiven.

How does it seem to you?

It seems to me that is the goal of this discussion, which is to answer this question: "How do I forgive the unforgivable?"

Attempting to put Jesus in a box and tying it up with a nice pretty logical formula so as to belittle what Jesus did for us is not the way to understand forgiveness.

Forgiveness is a gift. God's gift to us and our gifts to those we forgive. According to the world it is not logical for someone to forgive someone that has harmed them in some way. Like love, forgiveness is a choice. Feelings are irrelevant.

Years ago.. about 25 years ago now.. my how time flies. anyway I was treated very badly by a supervisor on my job. She never repented and I found it very difficult to forgive her. Thank God I got a transfer and was no longer under her supervision. But Still i couldn't find it within me to forgive her for what she did to me.

As the days became weeks after the insanity of the day she freaked out on me, I felt the bitterness of being wronged. The Holy Spirit worked with me and taught me to pray for her. (Pray for your enemies). In talking with God and voicing to Him that I did not "feel" like praying for her or forgiving her, He in His awesome way, gently guided me and I made the CHOICE to forgive her.

I still didn't "feel" it but I purposed to forgive and to pray. The weeks became months and I prayed for her everyday. i would say to anyone who inquired about it that "I forgive her. That is my story and I am sticking to it". Did I believe it myself? No. Not at first but I believe in God and I know His word and I know His voice and choosing to forgive and being obedient to the Holy Spirit's persuasion, one day about six months later I realized that I had indeed forgiven her.

Forgiveness is not logical. It is hard. But with God all things are possible including loving the unlovable.

 

[Strypes]

As for the "forgive seventy times seven times"... lol.. I have an ex-husband that gave me something new to forgive him for nearly every day for many years. And I do forgive him. It was quite difficult especially having to live with the consequences of his bad decisions. But God got me through it and I have learned to trust God more from the experience.

 

[Spockrates]

Attempting to put Jesus in a box and tying it up with a nice pretty logical formula so as to belittle what Jesus did for us is not the way to understand forgiveness.

Please explain how I have belittled what Jesus did so that I might repent and ask for his forgiveness and for yours.

Forgiveness is a gift. God's gift to us and our gifts to those we forgive. According to the world it is not logical for someone to forgive someone that has harmed them in some way. Like love, forgiveness is a choice. Feelings are irrelevant.

Please forgive me for being so slow to understand. Are you saying forgiveness is something one does despite what one feels?

Years ago.. about 25 years ago now.. my how time flies. anyway I was treated very badly by a supervisor on my job. She never repented and I found it very difficult to forgive her. Thank God I got a transfer and was no longer under her supervision. But Still i couldn't find it within me to forgive her for what she did to me.

As the days became weeks after the insanity of the day she freaked out on me, I felt the bitterness of being wronged. The Holy Spirit worked with me and taught me to pray for her. (Pray for your enemies). In talking with God and voicing to Him that I did not "feel" like praying for her or forgiving her, He is His awesome way, gently guided me and I made the CHOICE to forgive her.

I still didn't "feel" it but I purposed to forgive and to pray. The weeks became months and I prayed for her everyday. i would say to anyone who inquired about it that "I forgive her. That is my story and I am sticking to it". Did I believe it myself? No. Not at first but I believe in God and I know His word and I know His voice and choosing to forgive and being obedient to the Holy Spirit's persuasion, one day about six months later I realized that I had indeed forgiven her.

Forgiveness is not logical. It is hard. But with God all things are possible including loving the unlovable.

Yes, I've had my fair share of difficult bosses. So maybe I understand a little how you feel? But I don't quite understand what forgiveness is. Please forgive me for asking: What is forgiveness? If it is not something I feel, then is it something I say to, or do for the one forgiven?

 

[Strypes]

Please explain how I have belittled what Jesus did so that I might repent and ask for his forgiveness and for yours.

..

Your attempt to fit Jesus into your logical premise/conclusion box.

Are you saying forgiveness is something one does despite what one feels?

Yes.

What is forgiveness? If it is not something I feel, then is it something I say to, or do for the one forgiven?

I am sure Webster can give you several definitions for "forgiveness". To Forgive is a choice. Like love, you can choose to love someone even though they make it hard. Kinda like you love your child no matter what they say or do because you choose to love them in spite of their actions. Not all parents do. Only those that choose to do.

 

[Strypes]

Let me try to explain it a bit differently.

To forgive someone of a wrong they have done to you is like the master in the parable you found forgiving the debt of the man that took his money and never paid him back. The Master CHOSE to release that debt.

The forgiven man CHOSE NOT to forgive the one who owed him a few dollars.

He failed to show mercy even after he himself had received mercy (on a much greater scale).

We have a choice to make. Choose wisely.

 

[james1523]

Hi, Hekuran: My first thought is that forgiveness is a kind of love, for it is certainly loving. My second thought is that it might, at least sometimes be a kind of conditional love. For if-then statements are conditional.

"But IF you do not forgive...[THEN] your Heavenly Father will not forgive... ."

(Matthew 6:15)

Forgiveness is a kind of mercy.
Daniel 9:9:
To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, for we have rebelled against him
God forgives not because He loves, but because He is merciful.
Doing good is a kind of love (Luke 6:27).

So when you forgive someone, you are being merciful to them, and you can forgive someone without loving them.
But if you do something good for those who hurt you, then you are showing love.
On the one hand Jesus says to forgive, and on the other hand Jesus says to do good to enemies.
Jesus is basically saying to show mercy and love. It is possible to love without mercy and have mercy without love.

 

[Chad]

Hi @Spockrates

Forgiveness. It started ultimately and eternally at the Cross. It was all about this: God forgiving us of our sins, the free gift of grace that cost Jesus His life.

Remember what even Jesus did while dying in the Cross?

Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

What else did Jesus say?

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

Matthew 6:14-16
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

We also forgive so that our prayers will not be hindered:


And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.

 

[Spockrates]

Please forgive me for being away. I now have time to resurrect this discussion, if anyone is interested.

 

[Spockrates]

Let me try to explain it a bit differently.

To forgive someone of a wrong they have done to you is like the master in the parable you found forgiving the debt of the man that took his money and never paid him back. The Master CHOSE to release that debt.

The forgiven man CHOSE NOT to forgive the one who owed him a few dollars.

He failed to show mercy even after he himself had received mercy (on a much greater scale).

We have a choice to make. Choose wisely.

Strypes:

Would you say, then that forgiveness is more than not holding a grudge? That is, is true forgiving more than a feeling? Is it also an act of releasing someone from paying a debt owed to you?

 

[Strypes]

Would you say, then that forgiveness is more than not holding a grudge?

Yes.

That is, is true forgiving more than a feeling?

Feelings are fickle and forgiveness goes against what we "feel" most of the time in my experience. You can "feel" angry/hurt/furious/sad/betrayed etc and still CHOOSE to forgive.

Is it also an act of releasing someone from paying a debt owed to you?

Can be, yes.