Should I Always Forgive Everyone in Every Way?

[Strypes]

Let's give an example, a husband who beats his wife may enjoy reconcilation with her if she is afraid to leave him, but he will not necessarily enjoy forgiveness from her. However, she can decide to forgive him even if he never repents, but staying in the relationship without some serious repentance and demonstrated changed behavior on his part is not in her best interest!

Exactly!
@Spockrates,

I hope you understand.

Is there someone that has wronged you that you are finding it difficult to forgive?

If so, make the conscience choice to forgive them and ask God to give you peace. Pray for them and if they repent then you have regained them in reconciliation. If they don't repent, then trust God at His word that He will take care of "it" whatever "it" is.

"Whatsoever you have done to the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me"~Jesus

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

Hi Spockrates,

Personally, I don't think not forgiving someone will send you to hell (Save Jesus). But here is the real question, if you can't forgive another, how can you expect to feel the forgiveness of Jesus?

People who are under the law can't feel the forgiveness of Jesus, because in their minds that is injustice. So, in turn, they can't forgive anyone else because of their sins.

So, if you truly do feel forgiven by Jesus, and yet cannot forgive another, that is an issue you need to hand to God.

It is my belief that the sermon on the mount was preached to those under the law, yet who felt they had no sin (Pharisees). So again, not forgiving someone will not send you to hell, because the Blood washes all of our sins, and God completely forgives us.

With you being forgiven, why would you not want to forgive another? God only asks that we love one another as we love ourselves.

 

[Spockrates]

That's what I am saying, you forgive fellow man even if he does not repent. But I do not recommend reconciling with fellow man without his seriously repenting!

Let's give an example, a husband who beats his wife may enjoy reconcilation with her if she is afraid to leave him, but he will not necessarily enjoy forgiveness from her. However, she can decide to forgive him even if he never repents, but staying in the relationship without some serious repentance and demonstrated changed behavior on his part is not in her best interest!

In the case of God forgiving man, repentance (changing one's mind from unbelief to belief in Jesus) is required. Man cannot be saved by grace through faith in Jesus without repenting (believing that Jesus is who He claimed to be).

I think I understand, but please tell me if I don't. You are saying we do not forgive as God forgives. We are not to imitate him when we forgive. For He requires repentance before He forgives. But we should never forgive that way. We should never require repentance. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[Spockrates]

Exactly!
@Spockrates,

I hope you understand.

Is there someone that has wronged you that you are finding it difficult to forgive?

Yes.

If so, make the conscience choice to forgive them

I have made the decision. Now I'm trying to figure out how God wants me to forgive.

and ask God to give you peace. Pray for them and if they repent then you have regained them in reconciliation. If they don't repent, then trust God at His word that He will take care of "it" whatever "it" is.

But how do you know forgiveness is not reconciliation? What reason do you have to believe this? You see, my fiend. If you and Grandmamary are mistaken, and forgiveness actually is reconciliation, then by following your advice, I might never forgive. I would be content to pray and feel peace and not be reconciled, I think. I'd be content to never forgive, if indeed forgiveness is reconciliation.

"Whatsoever you have done to the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me"~Jesus

Well, I don't think I'm forgiving Jesus when I forgive others. But I might be loving Jesus by forgiving others. Please tell me: Do you think forgiveness is a kind of love?

 

[grandmamary1219]

But how do you know forgiveness is not reconciliation? What reason do you have to believe this? You see, my fiend. If you and Grandmamary are mistaken, and forgiveness actually is reconciliation, then by following your advice, I might never forgive. I would be content to pray and feel peace and not be reconciled, I think. I'd be content to never forgive, if indeed forgiveness is reconciliation.

You don't take the Law into your own hands (by never forgiving or by taking out vengeance on the sinner). That is God's domain. Or in the case of a serious sin against you that is against the law of the land, that is the domain of our legal system.

Let me give you one more example: A man I know of here in Tucson left the hospital emergency room where his little boy had been diagnosed and was undergoing treatment for rape from 2 men that were known to this boy's father. He left his son undergoing treatment with his wife in attendance, went to the house where the 2 men were sitting outside in the yard, and shot them both. When they did not instantly die, he got out of his car and walked up to them and shot them both until they were dead.

While most of us would understand that kind of anger, it is against the law of the land. So the little boy lost his father and the little boy's mom lost her provider that day as he is now spending time in jail for his crimes of murdering 2 men.

Accountability is up to the Lord in the case of the one who sins against you. "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay! saith the LORD". We are to let it go, release all bitterness and hatefulness, and just walk away from the guilty one. We are not to take the laws of the land or the Law of God into our own hands.

 

[Spockrates]

Hi Spockrates,

Personally, I don't think not forgiving someone will send you to hell (Save Jesus). But here is the real question, if you can't forgive another, how can you expect to feel the forgiveness of Jesus?

People who are under the law can't feel the forgiveness of Jesus, because in their minds that is injustice. So, in turn, they can't forgive anyone else because of their sins.

So, if you truly do feel forgiven by Jesus, and yet cannot forgive another, that is an issue you need to hand to God.

It is my belief that the sermon on the mount was preached to those under the law, yet who felt they had no sin (Pharisees). So again, not forgiving someone will not send you to hell, because the Blood washes all of our sins, and God completely forgives us.

With you being forgiven, why would you not want to forgive another? God only asks that we love one another as we love ourselves.

Thanks, Cosmic. I do want to forgive. Just trying the figure out how. What would you say the purpose of forgiveness is? Is it something I do for myself, or something I do for another?

 

[Spockrates]

You don't take the Law into your own hands (by never forgiving or by taking out vengeance on the sinner). That is God's domain. Or in the case of a serious sin against you that is against the law of the land, that is the domain of our legal system.

Let me give you one more example: A man I know of here in Tucson left the hospital emergency room where his little boy had been diagnosed and was undergoing treatment for rape from 2 men that were known to this boy's father. He left his son undergoing treatment with his wife in attendance, went to the house where the 2 men were sitting outside in the yard, and shot them both. When they did not instantly die, he got out of his car and walked up to them and shot them both until they were dead.

While most of us would understand that kind of anger, it is against the law of the land. So the little boy lost his father and the little boy's mom lost her provider that day as he is now spending time in jail for his crimes of murdering 2 men.

Accountability is up to the Lord in the case of the one who sins against you. "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay! saith the LORD". We are to let it go, release all bitterness and hatefulness, and just walk away from the guilty one. We are not to take the laws of the land or the Law of God into our own hands.

I think I understand, but please tell me if I don't. You are saying God judges those who refuse to repent, but withholds judgement from those who do repent.

You and I, however are not to judge as God judges. Neither are we to imitate him when we forgive. For He requires repentance before He forgives, but you and I should never forgive that way. We should never require repentance.

Please tell me: Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[grandmamary1219]

I'm going to give up trying to be understood by you in this thread. I e-mailed you a great response from GotQuestions on the subject. There is also a sermon on this subject in SERMONS which was just posted by my friend Mike @simpleservant

We all struggle with this issue multiple times during our lives. The LORD will work through this with you, of that I have complete confidence! It is the Holy Spirit's job to lead us in our walk with Jesus. If you belong to Jesus (if you are a true believer) He will guide you into all righteousness, little by little.

God bless you in your walk with our LORD and SAVIOR.

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

Thanks, Cosmic. I do want to forgive. Just trying the figure out how. What would you say the purpose of forgiveness is? Is it something I do for myself, or something I do for another?

Both. You should learn to let go of what another person has done to you. Are you so self-righteous as to think you have never wronged another? Even without knowing it?

Don't get all wrapped up in what that person has done and how you feel about it.

Forgiving someone doesn't mean you approve what they did, it just means you are choosing to love instead of hate. To be more like Jesus instead of the devil.

Again, this unforgiveness in your heart will not send you to hell. But, really examine how you feel about this person, and ask, "Does God feel this way?". In Jesus Christ, we all are loved by God, just not everyone believes it.

And, again, unforgiveness mostly hurts you, because you are the one harboring evil thoughts against another person made in God's image.

Overcome evil with good!

You might think, "Well that's too hard!", and you are probably right. So get your eyes off of your sins and look to Jesus. Rest in his love, and maybe one day you'll dish out some love of your own.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Strypes:

Would you say, then that forgiveness is more than not holding a grudge? That is, is true forgiving more than a feeling? Is it also an act of releasing someone from paying a debt owed to you?

Forgiveness, in my opinion, does not mean that the offender avoids the consequences of the act; it means that I take my hands off of his/her throat so to speak.


SLE

 

[james1523]

Forgiveness means you do not blame the other person. Blame is the opposite of praise. Blame is to hold responsible, an act of attributing fault;
An act of forgiveness involves the will, the thoughts and the feelings (the heart).
If we still feel something against someone, we have not truly forgiven them.
The Bible indicates that lack of forgiveness will send us to hell (Matt 6:14-15).
The purpose of forgiveness therefore, is not merely so we can feel good about ourselves and have positive thoughts and emotions, but to ensure that God will forgive us for our sins, so that we don't go to hell.

 

[Spockrates]

I'm going to give up trying to be understood by you in this thread. I e-mailed you a great response from GotQuestions on the subject. There is also a sermon on this subject in SERMONS which was just posted by my friend Mike @simpleservant

We all struggle with this issue multiple times during our lives. The LORD will work through this with you, of that I have complete confidence! It is the Holy Spirit's job to lead us in our walk with Jesus. If you belong to Jesus (if you are a true believer) He will guide you into all righteousness, little by little.

God bless you in your walk with our LORD and SAVIOR.

Thank you so much for your time! Blessings to you.

 

[Spockrates]

Both. You should learn to let go of what another person has done to you. Are you so self-righteous as to think you have never wronged another? Even without knowing it?

Don't get all wrapped up in what that person has done and how you feel about it.

Forgiving someone doesn't mean you approve what they did, it just means you are choosing to love instead of hate. To be more like Jesus instead of the devil.

Again, this unforgiveness in your heart will not send you to hell. But, really examine how you feel about this person, and ask, "Does God feel this way?". In Jesus Christ, we all are loved by God, just not everyone believes it.

And, again, unforgiveness mostly hurts you, because you are the one harboring evil thoughts against another person made in God's image.

Overcome evil with good!

You might think, "Well that's too hard!", and you are probably right. So get your eyes off of your sins and look to Jesus. Rest in his love, and maybe one day you'll dish out some love of your own.

Thanks, and I agree I should not be self righteous. So I think you are right in saying forgiveness is something that benefits both the forgiver and the forgiven.

Now how does it benefit the forgiven? I mean, does the forgiven benefit by what I say, only, or is there also something I should doto show her she is forgiven? That is, is it enough to merely say, "I forgive you," or should some actions back up my words?

 

[Spockrates]

Forgiveness means you do not blame the other person. Blame is the opposite of praise. Blame is to hold responsible, an act of attributing fault;
An act of forgiveness involves the will, the thoughts and the feelings (the heart).
If we still feel something against someone, we have not truly forgiven them.
The Bible indicates that lack of forgiveness will send us to hell ().
The purpose of forgiveness therefore, is not merely so we can feel good about ourselves and have positive thoughts and emotions, but to ensure that God will forgive us for our sins, so that we don't go to hell.

James:

Thank you. I'm starting to see that my confusion might stem from the possibility that there are different ways to forgive, or perhaps different degrees of forgiveness. Do you agree that there are?

I think, maybe you do. For you said, "If we still feel something against someone, we have not truly forgiven them." You also said, "Forgiveness means you do not blame the other person. Blame is the opposite of praise. Blame is to hold responsible, an act of attributing fault."

It seems to me that the former is forgiving with one's thoughts and emotions, but the latter is forgiving with ones words or actions. I suppose it's one thing to not dwell on one's anger, and an entirely different thing to absolve someone from blame. In fact, I think it is entirely possible to forgive in one way but not the other!

For example, if I catch a teen smashing my wife's garden gnomes with a baseball bat, I might keep myself from expressing or feeling anger and calmly call the police and press charges. On the other hand, I might lose my temper, express great anger toward the teen, but not call the police and press charges.

Forgive me for asking, but do you think both are examples of partial forgiveness?

 

[james1523]

James:

Thank you. I'm starting to see that my confusion might stem from the possibility that there are different ways to forgive, or perhaps different degrees of forgiveness. Do you agree that there are?

I think, maybe you do. For you said, "If we still feel something against someone, we have not truly forgiven them." You also said, "Forgiveness means you do not blame the other person. Blame is the opposite of praise. Blame is to hold responsible, an act of attributing fault."

It seems to me that the former is forgiving with one's thoughts and emotions, but the latter is forgiving with ones words or actions. I suppose it's one thing to not dwell on one's anger, and an entirely different thing to absolve someone from blame. In fact, I think it is entirely possible to forgive in one way but not the other!

For example, if I catch a teen smashing my wife's garden gnomes with a baseball bat, I might keep myself from expressing or feeling anger and calmly call the police and press charges. On the other hand, I might lose my temper, express great anger toward the teen, but not call the police and press charges.

Forgive me for asking, but do you think both are examples of partial forgiveness?

I agree that we can forgive with our will, with our thoughts, or with our feelings, or with various combinations of these 3. To forgive with all 3 is known as forgiving from the heart, and forgiving with all 3 is the standard which God requires (Matt 18:35). This is also known as "true forgiveness". Partial forgiveness is not true forgiveness.

The garden gnome example is not an example of forgiveness but an example of retribution. Forgiveness comes into it if you blame the teen for what they have done, and the degree of blame shown in each situation is not clear in your example.

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

Thanks, and I agree I should not be self righteous. So I think you are right in saying forgiveness is something that benefits both the forgiver and the forgiven.

Now how does it benefit the forgiven? I mean, does the forgiven benefit by what I say, only, or is there also something I should doto show her she is forgiven? That is, is it enough to merely say, "I forgive you," or should some actions back up my words?

Well if you had previously shown your unforgiveness externally then remedy it with external means, saying "I forgive you" is a good start. But if it is internal unforgiveness then simply treat her as if you never harbored it inside your heart.

In Christ there is freedom Spockrates, we don't have to keep track of the faults of ourselves or others.

 

[Janiagail]

When you really want to follow Jesus and be like him, yes, they say that you have to forgive all the time no matter what...

But as a human, we find it hard, especially if we were wronged severely. (Just like what I am experiencing now.) =)

 

[Strypes]

When you really want to follow Jesus and be like him, yes, they say that you have to forgive all the time no matter what...

But as a human, we find it hard, especially if we were wronged severely. (Just like what I am experiencing now.) =)

Janiagail,

I am saddened to hear that you have been severely wronged. I hope that you overcome it, whatever "it" may be.

I know that forgiving someone can be hard but if you don't forgive, it will be like a bitter poison to you. Forgive quickly before the bitterness takes root in your life.

I am going to try to explain something to you that Spockrates seems daft to understand. The jury is still out as to whether or not he is being deliberately obtuse, but maybe if I explain it to you he will finally "get it".

God forgives ALL we have done.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

It was not "easy" for Jesus to suffer and die for our redemption, but He did it so we can be forgiven of ALL our sins.

Jesus ask of us to forgive those who have wronged us too. It is not always an easy thing to do, but if we want to be obedient to God then we must.

When we choose to be obedient to God by choosing to forgive those who have wronged us, we release it to God.

How we do that is making the choice to forgive and we can also pray for them and pray for ourselves for God to give us the strength to endure and for peace press on.

When we choose to forgive someone, we give the whole situation to God, knowing that He will deal with it, whatever "it" is. Their transgression is now between them and GOD.

Jesus said "Whatsoever you have done to the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me"

Meaning that if you are a born again Christian then whatever severe wrong that was done to you, Jesus considers it as if it was done to Him and being that He is God, HE will take care of "it".

I hope you find peace in knowing that Jesus is on your side and He knows the whole truth of what happened to you and He will avenge you.

God forgives us of all we have done and we are to forgive others too.

 

[Janiagail]

Thank you very much for the insights.. Actually, I am trying to understand and forgive them.. But when the situation reminds me how they affect my life and my daughter's, it's just really unfair.. I know that I have done some wrong things too, but I don't think that I have to pay for them for the rest of my life and let other people hurt my daughter. She deserves better and she doesn't deserve any of the persecution we are facing. =)

 

[Strypes]

Thank you very much for the insights.. Actually, I am trying to understand and forgive them.. But when the situation reminds me how they affect my life and my daughter's, it's just really unfair.. I know that I have done some wrong things too, but I don't think that I have to pay for them for the rest of my life and let other people hurt my daughter. She deserves better and she doesn't deserve any of the persecution we are facing. =)

I do not know your situation, but I do know that God can be trusted.

Pray and seek God's guidance on how to deal with your situation. God's forgiveness and our forgiveness of others does not exclude the authorities from holding people accountable for their actions.

If someone is hurting your child, get her away from them and call the police.