Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

[vhusley]

Its all about the unseen glory of God we cannot create things that are not there.

There is only one spirit of rebellion (legion) who is not a creation . But as a spirit assigned as Lucifer to protect the glory of God or “the seal of perfection.”

Satan is not the seal of perfection but is the seal of death. . . false pride. In a perfect world (the first three days) every thing was glory glory glory as the presence of Light (God) . Legion many false gods was to protect the glory of Creation but took it upon himself usurping the glory of God. And is why in Mathew 4 he tried to deceive Jesus with the idea that he could give him all the kingdom of the world and the glory of it as the god of this world.

In that way he was not created like us from the dust or field of clay as a usurping spirit.

Satan or legion( many) has no DNA he needs the actual creation to deceive mankind his wile . . . . .If you will bow down and worship the spirit of error you to can usurp the power of God . Strike three struck him out


The father gave Jesus the chief apostle the words as it is written three times and the spirt of error departed

Ezekiel was referring to Satan in his Angelic state, before he fell. I thought that was obvious.

 

[vhusley]

Satan or legion( many) has no DNA he needs the actual creation to deceive mankind his wile . . . . .If you will bow down and worship the spirit of error you to can usurp the power of God . Strike three struck him out

Is any of this biblical? Do you have scripture to support it?
So, “Legion,” the group of spirits in the Gerasenes demoniac, was actually Satan? I’ve never heard that nor read it in scripture. In fact, someone please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, there are only 3 accounts of Satan confronting or speaking to anyone in scripture, (1)Eve in the Garden, (2) Jesus, while tempting Him in the wilderness, and (3)God in Job and several other places.

 

[vhusley]

God is not a man he has no face . he is the eternal Spirit of all truth without beginning of Spirt life or end thereof of. the father of all sprit life .

Face to face is the same as faith (the unseen power of the will of God ) to the same faith as a labor of His love that works in us. it is always in respect to the revealed knowledge .Never after what they see the temporal corrupted . Ee continue to walk by faith the unseen eternal

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know (not seen) in part; but then shall I know (not seen) even as also I am known.(not seen)

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ

Jesus as the Son of man as prophet and chief apostle was to reflect the glory of God like the Moon reflects the power of the Sun .

We would never glory in the representation used as a one time demonstration of the power of our Father.

Before Jesus disappeared out of sight our Father gave him words to make sure mankind did not confuse the creation with the Faithful Creator, the Spirt of Truth having no form . . . we must walk by faith or we will not hear the gospel .

Not one more demonstration was propmised .God is not a man as us .He works in us as representation of his unseen glory .Just as he worked in Jesus the Son of man

2 Corinthains 5: 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

But Jesus IS God.
“For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” -Colossians 2:9
And doesn’t Jesus have a face? Isn’t He returning to reign in glory some day?

 

[complete]

Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?

No.

 

[Garee]

Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?

No.

Yes the tongue of God's prophecy .Not the tongue of confusion wonderment.

 

[Garee]

Ezekiel was referring to Satan in his Angelic state, before he fell. I thought that was obvious.

He was to protect the glory of the creation from false pride and instead became the one father of all lies called the legion. He is not a creation as formed after the rudiments of this world .But is the one apposing force of truth

Nothing changed after he fell other than God removed the feet from the most beautiful creature the spirit of lies (legion) .Today like in the garden he uses human as antichrists (legion) as he did with Peter as one of the antichrists' or men of sin in Mathew 16. peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus

 

[Garee]

But Jesus IS God.
“For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” -Colossians 2:9
And doesn’t Jesus have a face? Isn’t He returning to reign in glory some day?

Face to face is similar to faith to faith .The unseen spiritual understanding to the same . Face to face in the revealed knowledge.


God s not a man as us He is the Faithful Creator .having no beginning of days or end of Spirit life.

Is any of this biblical? Do you have scripture to support it?
So, “Legion,” the group of spirits in the Gerasenes demoniac, was actually Satan? I’ve never heard that nor read it in scripture. In fact, someone please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, there are only 3 accounts of Satan confronting or speaking to anyone in scripture, (1)Eve in the Garden, (2) Jesus, while tempting Him in the wilderness, and (3)God in Job and several other places.

Yes he (legion ) as the one spirit of lies introduces his self as many "Legion" The name of power of lying wonders .Ultimately God's one Spirt of truth with many sons of God as messengers or apostles apposed by antichrists .

Satan get behind me not seen not Peter seen .

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Christ is here reigning in the hearts of born again believers. When he departs on the last day under the sun then the glory will be restored as it was the first three days before the fall (Day 4)

He comes against the sons of God like Job. He is never said to be a son of God a creature . Out of the million's of sons of God that come before the throne of God in prayer . God said in effect said did you try Job one of the legion of believers?

Many confuse the sons of God in Job with fallen angels .

 

[Shaolin]

There is a Biblical difference between receiving the indwelling Spirit at regeneration (because it is the indwelling Spirit that actually does the regenerating) and receiving the baptism of the Spirit. There is a false doctrine floating around the church that says the moment you are saved you receive the baptism, and that is NOT supported by Scripture anywhere. Speaking in tongues is not part of the salvation experience UNLESS God has deemed it so for a particular individual, but not all people speak in tongues when they receive salvation.

Again, they are two entirely different things for different purposes, and not all people ever get baptized in the Spirit, usually only if God has called them into some form of ministry, because the baptism of the Spirit is for Kingdom work:

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

The indwelling Spirit every believer receives at the moment of salvation, He comes INTO the believer and is our direct link to God. The baptism of the Spirit, as Jesus articulates here, comes UPON a person...it isn't inside, it is on the outside, and deals with the outward fleshy things like fear and hesitation in uncertainty. The baptism gives one a fierce determination and boldness to declare the truth of God's Word, even in the face of certain death.

Hope that answers your question! Blessings

 

[Waggles]

Hope that answers your question! Blessings

As a Pentecostal Christian baptised in the Holy Spirit (and in water) with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues I do strongly disagree with your understanding on this.

Mark 16:15 And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues;
18 and in their hands they shall take up serpents, and if they drink aught deadly, it shall in now wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And THEY went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs that followed.

Jesus promised that disciples would speak in tongues.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

One thing about the AoG. While they say speaking in tongues is the initial evidence.
They believe the infilling and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are two different things, two different events.

So they do NOT believe speaking in tongues is required for salvation. They just believe it is required as evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The title of this thread says "regeneration". I'm not entirely sure what that means... is it like reincarnation?

"Regeneration" is a Calvinist "Buzz Word" as a "Work around" for their "Total Depravity" theology. It doesn't appear to mean "FUll salvation" but just a twilight zone before you get there.

Non-Calvinists see it as synonymous with being "Born Again"/"Saved"/Become Christian.

John 20:22 - The Disciples are infilled by the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:4 The disciples are externally CLOTHED by Holy Spirit to give them POWER for ministry.

Historically "Tongues" have bees a "sign" of the Acts 2:4 enduement. I speak in tongues, but NEVER in the 1 cor 14 "Message to a Congregation" sense. I've been burdened to INTERPRET Tongues, but never to speak them in a "Message fashion.

 

[Garee]

There is a Biblical difference between receiving the indwelling Spirit at regeneration (because it is the indwelling Spirit that actually does the regenerating) and receiving the baptism of the Spirit. There is a false doctrine floating around the church that says the moment you are saved you receive the baptism, and that is NOT supported by Scripture anywhere. Speaking in tongues is not part of the salvation experience UNLESS God has deemed it so for a particular individual, but not all people speak in tongues when they receive salvation.

Receiving the indwelling Spirit is the baptism of the Holy Spirit . its all together one labor of Christ's love that works in us .

If he began the good work of salvation in us he will finish it till the end.(Philippians 1:6) He is our living confidence. .

Speaking in tongues the poetic language of prophecy or called our new tongue . . it preaches the gospel . It as the power of God can drive out demons or raise one to new born again life and expose the poison of false prophets .

Again signs follow. . they are not to be sought after .Those who have it backward make Jesus out a a circus seal show us a miracle then we will believe .(no faith)

Mark 16:16-18he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; and he who hath not believed, shall be condemned.
`And signs shall accompany those believing these things; in my name demons they shall cast out; with new tongues they shall speak; serpents they shall take up; and if any deadly thing they may drink, it shall not hurt them; on the ailing they shall lay hands, and they shall be well.'

Some make a mockery of it making sounds like babies without meaning and fall backward showing they are slain in the spirit of judgment as those who do fall backward bitten by false prophecy the poison spoken of above .

They seek after signs to wonder and marvel with .(No end to faith) wonder? wonder? wonder ?

Water baptism has it roots as a ceremonial law a carnal law or temporal in the Old Testament. as a shadow used in parables it had no redeeming value.
Whenever a person had a personal desire to become one from the kingdom of priest.

It is carried on to the new testament the new order of priest.

When Aarons two son decided to become part of the kingdom of priest .The Holy Spirit used that occasion to show it was not a work of self edification false pride. The brothers added their ow personal touch called strange fire and were consumed yet the ceremonial clothing not a scent of smoke.

In that way there is not such thing as sign gift. Spiritual unseen gifts. . .. yes.

 

[vhusley]

While the gift of tongues is a good gift, it is not given to all born again believers, and it is not a gift a born again believer must possess in order to be regenerated from above or required as proof of regeneration.

Those that teach and preach that speaking in tongues is a REQUIRED sign of regeneration from above are not teaching the whole counsel of God's word, are not rightly dividing the word, are deliberately wresting God's word to their own destruction, and are no different than the pharisees of 2000 years ago who accused Jesus of blasphemy when HE healed on Sabbath.

Paul clearly says not all will receive the gift of tongues: "4There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." 1 Corinthians 12:4-11.

Those of you who truly speak in a tongue gifted to you be the power of the Holy Spirit, hallelujah - praise God. But don't let it make you think that you're brother or sister in Christ who has a gift other than tongues is not as equally gifted and regenerated and saved.

"There was a certain nobleman whose son was sick at Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and implored Him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of death. Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.” John 4:46-48.

I believe many are confused regarding tongues. If you study scripture closely and rightly divide the Word (In Joel's Prophesy as well as accounts in the Acts of the Apostles, and in Paul's teachings on it in 1 Corinthians 12-14 and in Romans 8) you will see that there are actually FOUR different kinds (ways) of speaking in tongues. Scripture makes clear distinctions among them. Only one of the four is the actual "Gift of Tongues" to which most refer.

 

[Br. Bear]

I believe many are confused regarding tongues. If you study scripture closely and rightly divide the Word (In Joel's Prophesy as well as accounts in the Acts of the Apostles, and in Paul's teachings on it in 1 Corinthians 12-14 and in Romans 8) you will see that there are actually FOUR different kinds (ways) of speaking in tongues. Scripture makes clear distinctions among them. Only one of the four is the actual "Gift of Tongues" to which most refer.

Greetings,

Can you expand on this, please?


Bless you ....><>

 

[vhusley]

Greetings,

Can you expand on this, please?


Bless you ....><>

Absolutely! It may be a bit lengthy. As soon as I’m off work I will return here and expound upon this

 

[Garee]

I believe many are confused regarding tongues. If you study scripture closely and rightly divide the Word (In Joel's Prophesy as well as accounts in the Acts of the Apostles, and in Paul's teachings on it in 1 Corinthians 12-14 and in Romans 8) you will see that there are actually FOUR different kinds (ways) of speaking in tongues. Scripture makes clear distinctions among them. Only one of the four is the actual "Gift of Tongues" to which most refer.

The tongue of God is simply prophecy .

 

[Shaolin]

As a Pentecostal Christian baptised in the Holy Spirit (and in water) with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues I do strongly disagree with your understanding on this.

Mark 16:15 And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues;
18 and in their hands they shall take up serpents, and if they drink aught deadly, it shall in now wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And THEY went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs that followed.

Jesus promised that disciples would speak in tongues.

I was also born and raised in the PCOG, sister organization of the Assemblies of God...but I follow what Scripture says, not what denominations claim. Nowhere in Scripture are we taught that every Christian will speak in tongues, and this passage that you gave does not say that. "They" does not mean all...just as all Christians do not cast demons out of people, nor heals people, etc. You do not "strongly" disagree with me, you "strongly" disagree with Scripture. It is not my understanding, it is what the Scriptures teach.

Blessings

 

[Waggles]

It is not my understanding, it is what the Scriptures teach.

Sorry it is not what scripture teaches ...
speaking in tongues is the Bible evidence (the sign given) for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
And these signs shall follow them that have believed: - nothing here about some or a few.
If you believe the full gospel of salvation and undergo repentance with water baptism for the remission of sins and then seek to be baptised in the Holy Spirit
then these signs shall follow them that believe: and they shall speak in tongues.

 

[Waggles]

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all that heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, who came with Peter, because that on the nations also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can anyone forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?

And apart from the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues and the baptism of the Holy Ghost, we also have the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy concerning the Messiah and the new covenant that would come.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering ...

 

[Garee]

Sorry it is not what scripture teaches ...
speaking in tongues is the Bible evidence (the sign given) for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
And these signs shall follow them that have believed: - nothing here about some or a few.
If you believe the full gospel of salvation and undergo repentance with water baptism for the remission of sins and then seek to be baptised in the Holy Spirit
then these signs shall follow them that believe: and they shall speak in tongues.

I think you meant that is what you are teaching ?

The bible is clear if you do not avoid the foundation of the doctrine of God rather than the doctrines of men that make senseless noise without understanding and fall backward slain in the spirit of judgement .

The word tongue is used 40 times in the Bible to indicate the understanding of God 's tongue prophecy . It is not used as a way of adding confusion wonderment or marveling. . not coming to a understanding. (senseless noises )

No such thing as a "sign gift" as evidence a person performed something as "self edifying ".( I did it, it proves it.) There are spiritual unseen gifts that work in believers .They edify God the one who provides the power to believe. The same applies to waters baptism its foundation is laid in the Old testament as a shadow of good things to come .No redeeming value .

If you are looking for self-gratification why not say I read the bible and call that a sign gift.? Some might say because I have Jewish flesh that's enough of a sign to self edify. . . rather than understanding by faith the unseen eternal tongue of God .

Jesus informs us its a evil generation (non converted mankind) that seeks after signs before they will believe. They who love to wonder and marvel make out Christ as a circus seal

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Making a senseless noise and falling backward slain in the spirit of judgement simply mocks the "tongue of God" called prophecy .

The foundation of prophecy (the tongue of God) is found in the Old Testament .It is the same law revisited in 1 Corinthians 14:21 (yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord)

Note. . believers
Note. . those who mock the tongue of God

1 Corinthians 14:21-22In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

If the law spoken of above does not reflect the foundation in Isaiah 28 .Then whose law as a foundation . The law of men ? I did it it proves I self edify myself.

Isaiah 28 :9 -11 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages (tongues) to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. (slain in God's Spirit of judgment )They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

 

[Shaolin]

Sorry it is not what scripture teaches ...
speaking in tongues is the Bible evidence (the sign given) for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I fear that you did not READ what I said. Tongues is indeed the initial evidence that a person experiences when they are baptized by the Holy Spirit, but that was not what the earlier conversation was about.

And these signs shall follow them that have believed: - nothing here about some or a few.

So...you dismiss entirely what reality dictates, is that it? Are you part of one of those left-field pentecostal churches that says if you don't speak in tongues then you are not saved? Because that is false doctrine, brother, through and through. Not everyone who gets saved is baptized in the Spirit, therefore not everyone who is saved will speak in tongues...and that is what you appear to be saying. And, Scripture does NOT support your claim when it is accurately and correctly interpreted through the use of a complete Biblical hermeneutic.

If you believe the full gospel of salvation and undergo repentance with water baptism for the remission of sins and then seek to be baptised in the Holy Spirit
then these signs shall follow them that believe: and they shall speak in tongues.

Yes...those who are baptized in the Spirit will speak in tongues, but when you disassociate reality from the Word, you end up no better than a mormon or JW. "They" does not mean all inclusive, it speaks of the body of believers, NOT every single believer. If you do that here, in direct violation of Biblical principles of interpretation, then you have to do it everywhere...thereby you advocate universalism. Everyone should be saved if that's the case. Reality demonstrates that not every saved believer speaks in tongues.

I will not argue with you, Scripture says what it does say, and it behooves us to be intelligent about its interpretation using a complete Biblical hermeneutic. I urge you to be a theologian (a scientist of Scripture), not a bias defender. We theologians go by the evidence of Scripture, not our biases.

Blessings