Temptation is not a Sin

[RJ]

Look deeply, and show me a sin that is not from fear.

I am "looking deeply", still don't see it. I see that all fear is a lack of faith, so consequently all fear is sin.
I will show you the ultimate sin that has nothing to do with fear and that would be unbelief. I can see that being based on pride possibly, maybe just never had the opportunity...certainly nothing to do with fear on those two!

 

[RJ]

From truth or untruth. In other words, from love or from fear.

Do you have any scripture to support this?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Amen to that RJ but then again how many times does a Christian bring on their own temptations ? This is when it gets hard to find Gods way out.
Blessings
Jim

Yes,possibly every time.
James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
James 1:14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.
James 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

from peira
Definition
to make proof of, to attempt, test, tempt
NASB Translation
did (1), put (1), put to the test (2), tempt (2), tempted (13), tempter (2), test (6), tested (2), testing (7), tried (2), trying (2).

Jesus had to overcome desire
from epithumeó
Definition
desire, passionate longing, lust
NASB Translation
coveting (2), desire (4), desires (8), earnestly (1), impulses (1), long (1), lust (5), lustful (1), lusts (15).

Epithumeó also has a positive meaning in a desire for God.
Peira has a positive meaning also in a self-checking for error in the spirit.

 

[Peter]

I am "looking deeply", still don't see it. I see that all fear is a lack of faith, so consequently all fear is sin...

I said that all sin comes from fear.
About to be hit by a car induces a fear of injury of death. That sort of fear is not a sin. Fear itself is not a sin.
But a sin originally comes from a fear of one sort or another.

...I will show you the ultimate sin that has nothing to do with fear and that would be unbelief. I can see that being based on pride possibly, maybe just never had the opportunity...certainly nothing to do with fear on those two!

Certain things have many fears, while some have less.
Unbelief has certain fears, depending on who is unbelieving. One fear could be the fear of any power greater than self, such as God. Fear of not being in control. Fear of being responsible for every thought and action, because believing would require total responsibility of self. Fear of there own truth. Unbelief not only denies these fears, but can deceptively feel self-empowering - playing god.
Pride is very close to the self, to our ego, which is our false-self. Our true self is our spirit-self.
Our spirit is not proud of any achievements from the false-self. If anything, it would see the false-self as a threat.
In this regard, any self-pride is a form of self-validation, and validating what is false about our false-self.
The fear here, is the truth about the false-self as being invalid. Fear of all our investments of life-long boasts, stories of accomplishments, etc, is all for nothing. It won't get us closer to God.
Only the humble and meek will inherent the earth.

 

[Peter]

Do you have any scripture to support this?

1 John 4: 16-18
16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgement, because in this world we are like him.
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I said that all sin comes from fear.
About to be hit by a car induces a fear of injury of death. That sort of fear is not a sin. Fear itself is not a sin.
But a sin originally comes from a fear of one sort or another.

Certain things have many fears, while some have less.
Unbelief has certain fears, depending on who is unbelieving. One fear could be the fear of any power greater than self, such as God. Fear of not being in control. Fear of being responsible for every thought and action, because believing would require total responsibility of self. Fear of there own truth. Unbelief not only denies these fears, but can deceptively feel self-empowering - playing god.
Pride is very close to the self, to our ego, which is our false-self. Our true self is our spirit-self.
Our spirit is not proud of any achievements from the false-self. If anything, it would see the false-self as a threat.
In this regard, any self-pride is a form of self-validation, and validating what is false about our false-self.
The fear here, is the truth about the false-self as being invalid. Fear of all our investments of life-long boasts, stories of accomplishments, etc, is all for nothing. It won't get us closer to God.
Only the humble and meek will inherent the earth.

Peter Greetings,
Your claim that all sin comes from fear. That is simply not true.
Fear can becomes twisted faith. The devil comes to steal , kill and destroy. The devil uses fear.
Fear of losing etc. Your child gets sick, you pray and believe God for the childs healing, then along comes the devil with his fear, fear God wont heal the child or fear the child will die.........Then this fear is now twisted faith for you have put more faith in the fear that the devil is tempting you with then the word of God.

Your thoughts on fear seem to be some what off here, but then again I may just not be grasping at what you are saying.
Blessings
Jim

 

[Peter]

... Fear can becomes twisted faith. The devil comes to steal , kill and destroy. The devil uses fear.
Fear of losing etc. Your child gets sick, you pray and believe God for the childs healing, then along comes the devil with his fear, fear God wont heal the child or fear the child will die.........Then this fear is now twisted faith for you have put more faith in the fear that the devil is tempting you with then the word of God ....

Hello Jim.

I am not sure where the sin is here, except for the error of not trusting God (to know what is best for the daughter and father), regardless of the outcome.
Twisted faith, as referred to here, is changing allegiance (by the father), from God to satan.
In this case, the father may have his faith never so severely tested before. Fear of failure, or not worthy of God's mercy, may cause the father to seek a less testing solution by blaming the devil.
All sorts of stories can unfold from fear. In any case, the fear is a suggestion (temptation), and only unfolds towards a sin if we allow it to.

The devil may make suggestions (stories, especially old ones that worked before) of loss, etc., to induce fear.
This is so the devil can feed of the wasted energy produced by that fear. But it is the father's choice to succumb to that temptation or not.

Evil do not have a spirit to energize them, like we do. They rely on the energy we waste from our lack of faith. Our fears and tension squeezes out our life energy, the energy evil feeds of.
A person of truth loves God, and love contains no fear. Evil starves where there is love.

 

[RJ]

Fear itself is not a sin.

Foolishness! If you have faith, tell me one thing there is to fear?

 

[Peter]

Foolishness! If you have faith, tell me one thing there is to fear?

If you have faith (in God), only your false-self (ego) fears its death.

 

[RJ]

If you have faith (in God), only your false-self (ego) fears its death.

With respect, you did not answer my question!

 

[RJ]

1 John 4: 16-18
16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgement, because in this world we are like him.
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

That in no way implys that all sin is based on fear!

 

[Peter]

Hello RJ.
With all due respect, I did give you one thing the self fears, in post #29. If I did not answer it, then explain why it is not an answer.
You asked for Scripture, I gave you one. Please discern that love and fear (hate is a fear) are opposites. If sin does not come from love, then it must come from fear.
All along I have tried to back up my statements with explanations, and sometimes with scripture. Please do the same if you say I am wrong, instead of just saying so.

If all sin is not based on fear, as you imply, provide me with an example, and reasons why a fear could not have caused it.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

If you have faith (in God), only your false-self (ego) fears its death.

I tend to agree
Hebrews 2:15 Only in this way could he set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.
The temporary is afraid of being temporary so it tries to enslave the eternal for a good run.
Much in the same way a bully has no peace or joy so he has to steal it from those who are in possession of it.
The soul or self/ego became a living being.
The eternal IS a life giving spirit.

The temporary hijacked the "eternal now" and is afraid and on the run.

 

[RJ]

If sin does not come from love, then it must come from fear.

Not necessarily, it could easily come from an absolute lack of love and not only fear! Satin's sin has a total lack of love or fear.

If sin does not come from love, then it must come from fear.

That is wrong headed thinking!

Please discern that love and fear (hate is a fear) are opposites.

That is not and absolute. One can love and fear at the same time. The Bible is full of expressions of fear, as in respect!

18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

I see you point here, but this does not mean that all sin is from fear as you say! Also, it means that the one in you is perfect love, in the same way, that is why God calls you blameless and righteous...not you but the one in you. Though there is no condemnation for you, you still have sin; you are not perfect yet.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

You asked for Scripture, I gave you one. Please discern that love and fear (hate is a fear) are opposites. If sin does not come from love, then it must come from fear.
All along I have tried to back up my statements with explanations, and sometimes with scripture. Please do the same if you say I am wrong, instead of just saying so.

Hebrews 2:15 Only in this way could he set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.
Which is easier to say slaves to the fear of dying or slaves to sin..

Not necessarily, it could easily come from an absolute lack of love and not only fear! Satin's sin has a total lack of love or fear.

There might be a little rush of anxiety occasionally.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[RJ]

Hebrews 2:15 Only in this way could he set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.
Which is easier to say slaves to the fear of dying or slaves to sin..

Nice verse, meant for unbelievers; nothing to do with Born Again Christians!
With out faith, fear is a sin. Again, has nothing to do with ALL sin comes from fear as in the original post!

Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Perfectly full in arrogance and pride, I say it is a case of too little and too late with the fear.:laugh:

 

[Peter]

My words in blue:

Not necessarily, it could easily come from an absolute lack of love and not only fear! Satin's sin has a total lack of love or fear.
Absolute lack of love is what evil is. Love is self sustaining, like God. Evil feeds of the fear of others to survive, like a dog returning to vomit.
So RJ, satan does not fear Jesus/God, or does not fear End of Days.
That is wrong headed thinking!
We can only be loving or fearful. We are either doing God's will, or doing self-will. Those who can discern their own subtle truth know this.
That is not and absolute. One can love and fear at the same time. The Bible is full of expressions of fear, as in respect!
We cannot serve two masters at the same time. There is no such thing as a half truth, they are all deceptive.
Fear of God out of respect, is the false-self fearing death.
Fearing God out of respect humbles us. We are humble because of our false-self knows that it is vulnerable to its truth, i.e., it is false and invalid.
Our true-self, the spirit within, does not fear God because it came from God. The Holy Spirit of truth counsels us on this.
I see you point here, but this does not mean that all sin is from fear as you say! As I said before, what sin is not born from fear? Also, it means that the one in you is perfect love, in the same way, that is why God calls you blameless and righteous...not you but the one in you. Though there is no condemnation for you, you still have sin; you are not perfect yet.
True.

 

[RJ]

My words in blue:

I give up! Let's agree to disagree and move on!
You said: Look deeply, and show me a sin that is not from fear.
I guess I just don't go as deep as you do/!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Foolishness! If you have faith, tell me one thing there is to fear?

Rj Christians fear all the time and they have faith. Doubt is fear brother RJ - simple and clear.

 

[RJ]

Rj Christians fear all the time and they have faith. Doubt is fear brother RJ - simple and clear.

Wired,
I didn't say that a Christian couldn't still fear, I asked: " with faith, that actually comes from God, what is there to fear?"
I see no argument that fear, of any kind, is sin, and many a true Christian remain in some sort of bondage to a fear of some kind! My disagreement is that all sin comes from fear.... as you say: " simple and clear"!
The , unpardonable sin is unbelief! We can't / shouldn't include carnal fear in this discussion, only that of spiritual fear.
Many sin because the sin of unbelief. I look at my self as a previous unbeliever, I had no fear. What was there to fear, I just didn't know! In fact, I now look at God's law, and fear at time, where before, I could have cared less. Thank God for Romans 8:1.