The Beast Revelation

[Bambi]

Hello Bambi.

You asked about the phrase 'the last hour' Bambi.

I did not ask this. Look again in Post # 35, I asked you two questions and this wasn't one of them. Plus the phrase "the last hour" isn't in the Bible, atleast no where I can find.

To understand the usage in the scripture of the words 'soon' or an 'hour',
the context would determine the meaning.

I would agree with this statement, but what does "soon" mean in Rev 1? And who is the 6th king in Rev 17:10?

 

[Victor9509]

For those that don't know, Satan was once an angel . His name is lucifer and his name stood for "angel of light". This guy one day decided he wanted to take out God himself so he could rule because he thought he would make a greater God. What happened? God threw him to hell. Now he tries to steal kill and destroy you because he lost his life.

 

[Victor9509]

Nobody knows when soon is ... The only one that knows is God,

 

[Bambi]

For those that don't know, Satan was once an angel . His name is lucifer and his name stood for "angel of light". This guy one day decided he wanted to take out God himself so he could rule because he thought he would make a greater God. What happened? God threw him to hell. Now he tries to steal kill and destroy you because he lost his life.

The only place the name Lucifer is used is in Isaiah 14. If you read the passage in context it isn't talking about Satan, it is talking about the king of Babylon. Which is Nebuchadnezzar.

The time of soon can be determine if you look in the context of scripture. Not just the passage with the word, soon in it, but when you read all of scripture.

 

[james1523]

The only place the name Lucifer is used is in Isaiah 14. If you read the passage in context it isn't talking about Satan, it is talking about the king of Babylon. Which is Nebuchadnezzar.

The time of soon can be determine if you look in the context of scripture. Not just the passage with the word, soon in it, but when you read all of scripture.

Satan means adversary. The word is not always used to refer to an angelic being, but any adversary towards God. Jesus spoke to Peter and called Peter Satan (Matt 16:23), but I'm sure Peter was not an archangel. So any and every adversary to God is satan. And based on Matt 16:23, any human thoughts contrary to God's will, are actually satanic thoughts. There is no middle ground with God, humans are not neutral, we are either with God or against Him.

 

[DHC]

[/B]

I did not ask this. Look again in Post # 35, I asked you two questions and this wasn't one of them. Plus the phrase "the last hour" isn't in the Bible, atleast no where I can find.
I would agree with this statement, but what does "soon" mean in Rev 1? And who is the 6th king in Rev 17:10?

I would agree with this statement, but what does "soon" mean in Rev 1? And who is the 6th king in Rev 17:10?


Hello Bambi.

I do apologise for the distraction with the 'hour' but I was trying to demonstrate
that the Bible uses time intervals somewhat differently to the way we use them.

The 'soon' in Revelations 1, refers to the 'things' mentioned in line one. Obviously the
'things' are certain events which must take place soon.

Revelations 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants,
the things which must soon take place.

What is interesting is another quotation in Releation 4, which I have inserted below.
You may not have been aware of it but read the last line of the quotation.

Revelations 4
4 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and
the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me,
said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”

Whatever the 'things' were in Revelations 1, which will soon take place. Then there
are other events which take place AFTER these 'things' of Revelations 1.

I hope Bambi I have not confused you but there does appear to be multiple
revelations within the revelation given to John at Patmos.

Here is another separate revelation from the others.

Revelations 17
1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me,
saying, “Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot..."

If you discover what exactly the 'things' are in Revelations 1, tell me because I am
not sure which events these are.

 

[Bambi]

I would agree with this statement, but what does "soon" mean in Rev 1? And who is the 6th king in Rev 17:10?


Hello Bambi.

I do apologise for the distraction with the 'hour' but I was trying to demonstrate
that the Bible uses time intervals somewhat differently to the way we use them.

The 'soon' in Revelations 1, refers to the 'things' mentioned in line one. Obviously the
'things' are certain events which must take place soon.

Revelations 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants,
the things which must soon take place.

What is interesting is another quotation in Releation 4, which I have inserted below.
You may not have been aware of it but read the last line of the quotation.

Revelations 4
4 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and
the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me,
said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”

Whatever the 'things' were in Revelations 1, which will soon take place. Then there
are other events which take place AFTER these 'things' of Revelations 1.

I hope Bambi I have not confused you but there does appear to be multiple
revelations within the revelation given to John at Patmos.

Here is another separate revelation from the others.

Revelations 17
1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me,
saying, “Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot..."

If you discover what exactly the 'things' are in Revelations 1, tell me because I am
not sure which events these are.

So there are multiple time periods? These all time periods don't go together? Who is the 6th king?

 

[Bambi]

Satan means adversary. The word is not always used to refer to an angelic being, but any adversary towards God. Jesus spoke to Peter and called Peter Satan (Matt 16:23), but I'm sure Peter was not an archangel. So any and every adversary to God is satan. And based on Matt 16:23, any human thoughts contrary to God's will, are actually satanic thoughts. There is no middle ground with God, humans are not neutral, we are either with God or against Him.

So whatever happened to reading the passage in content? The word Satan isn't in this passage of Isaiah 14.

 

[rodd]

So there are multiple time periods? These all time periods don't go together? Who is the 6th king?

Bambi,

The sixth king is John Paul 2,.....the eighth is Francis, the seventh whose reign was for a short time was Benedict,....the the Great Harlot is the Roman Catholic church that rules over the kings of the world.
During and after the Napoleonic Wars the face of Europe was changed, and so was the persecuting power and control of the Papacy throughout Europe, .....this is the meaning of the Great Harlots time in the desert, her power for a time was suspended, during and after the time of Napoleon.
In fact the popes and bishops were held in interment in the Lateran palace at the Vatican in Rome, this happened for the most part of the 19th Century until the Modern Papacy was hatched and empowered by the dictator Mussolini in 1929. It was called the Lateran Treaty.

From that point in time the prophecy regarding the Kings of Revelation 17 began, there was to be only eight in all till the eighth beast (false prophet) arose for the final 7 years of tribulation, during the first 42months or 3.5 years he (or I should say they) will exercise persecuting power over the saints.
He will also enforce the worship of the one who was the sixth (JP2) he will rise up out of the abyss, scripture says the world will be shocked and amazed, because they know him! Revelation 17:11 reveals he was the sixth but is now an eighth, the word 'an' here meaning plurality, in other words two popes, Francis and John Paul 2, Rev 17:8 reveals the sixth as a demon clone coming up from hell to deceive the world, a replica of the sixth king pope.
Strange times ahead quite possibly!

Google,....Lateran treaty and the read history of the RCC rebirth, they are the hidden face of Luciferian Worship. The sovereign status of the Vatican of the modern era in effect makes their popes kings, the kings of Revelation 17.....

We as Christians are naive enough to think Satan doesn't control our leaders and those in power in this world, only a few bad little countries that won't play ball with the most of us,....he is in fact in process to take full control of the world and leads the superpowers, it's a joint exercise of deceit, Obama and Putin are best buddies, no joke!... their goal is to subdue the world and place the sixth on a throne on temple mount.
They'll probably crash the dollar and create chaos in Christian America after they've done with Syria. They despise Christian America so no doubt they have their plans, I think that's where the black horse and the pale horsemen of Rev 6 come into play.

The white and the red horseman was the 911 event and the subsequent subduing of non UN compliant nations through sanctions or warefare in the mid east and the world completed world domination ready for antichrist!...Syria is the last stepping stone.

That's the way I read it! God Bless.

 

[Bambi]

Bambi,

The sixth king is John Paul 2,...That's the way I read it! God Bless.

There is a problem with your interpretation. You project it to a far distance future. When John wrote Revelation he states that the 6th king is alive at the time of his writing. Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

If you were to count the number of Caesars starting with Julius you see that the 6th king is Nero who lasted 13 years and the 7th is Galba who lasted only 6 months. This tells you that the book of Revelation was written during the time of Nero before 70 AD. The first 19 1/2 chapters of Revelation is about the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[rodd]

There is a problem with your interpretation. You project it to a far distance future. When John wrote Revelation he states that the 6th king is alive at the time of his writing. Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

If you were to count the number of Caesars starting with Julius you see that the 6th king is Nero who lasted 13 years and the 7th is Galba who lasted only 6 months. This tells you that the book of Revelation was written during the time of Nero before 70 AD. The first 19 1/2 chapters of Revelation is about the destruction of Jerusalem.

Looks like we're of a different theological school, anyhow, when John was writing it was 100AD and he was writing a vision focusing on the time of the end, distant revelation, the sixth king Pope JP2 who miraculously recovered from a mortal wound and all the world followed him.
JP2's popularity has never been rivaled and strangely enough this current Pope wants sainthood bestowed on JP2 near years end.

If he is the false prophet the eighth, he has to show interest in the sixth which is what he's started to do. No doubt JP2 was wounded to near death but survived and he was the sixth, check out the Lateran Treaty on Wikipedia and Rev 13 the first beast.

The fact that this modern papacy was sterile for a long time prior but yet still in existence also aligns with the scriptures(the women wearing scarlet and riding a beast in the desert is the symbol) when we understand this prophecy of the re emergencing Papacy in our time and the emergence of Israel in the same era after 1900 years, it's all no coincidence.

 

[Bambi]

Looks like we're of a different theological school, anyhow, when John was writing it was 100AD and he was writing a vision focusing on the time of the end, distant revelation,

Your interpretation is still flawed. The Revelation of John was to happen soon after he wrote it. It was also written to seven churches about things that would happen to them not to someone in the future.

Rev 1:1, 3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

There are many people who think Revelation was written in 90 AD. I've not heard any about 100 AD. I also know many who believe it was written before 70 AD. The book of Revelation reveals that before 70 AD would be the correct time.

 

[rodd]

Your interpretation is still flawed. The Revelation of John was to happen soon after he wrote it. It was also written to seven churches about things that would happen to them not to someone in the future.

Rev 1:1, 3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

There are many people who think Revelation was written in 90 AD. I've not heard any about 100 AD. I also know many who believe it was written before 70 AD. The book of Revelation reveals that before 70 AD would be the correct time.

Once you get to Rev 4 you'll notice the prophetic revelations have moved forward from the immediate to the distant end time variety.

Rev 4:1,...."Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this."...... v2 goes on, and John has been translated into heaven to see the final great conflict and what inevitably must take place in those times which will see Christ totally triumphant over Satan and his forces.

The scroll in Rev 5 moves the story further along, we see Gods plan in the scrolls, the ultimate destiny of the world to bring about the destruction of Satanic tyranny, and the beginning of the Messianic kingdom on earth.

You'll find throughout scripture Gods prophets were given twofold messages, as in Mathew 24, although in that case it was the disciples requesting the information, firstly the immediate then the distant future, but this is the general rule of prophetic revelations.

Check out Wikipedia Lateran Treaty or just Google!...... that's if you still want to know who the sixth king is?

 

[Bambi]

Once you get to Rev 4 you'll notice the prophetic revelations have moved forward from the immediate to the distant end time variety.

Rev 4:1,...."Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this."...... v2 goes on, and John has been translated into heaven to see the final great conflict and what inevitably must take place in those times which will see Christ totally triumphant over Satan and his forces.

The scroll in Rev 5 moves the story further along, we see Gods plan in the scrolls, the ultimate destiny of the world to bring about the destruction of Satanic tyranny, and the beginning of the Messianic kingdom on earth.

You'll find throughout scripture Gods prophets were given twofold messages, as in Mathew 24, although in that case it was the disciples requesting the information, firstly the immediate then the distant future, but this is the general rule of prophetic revelations.

Check out Wikipedia Lateran Treaty or just Google!...... that's if you still want to know who the sixth king is?

Are you a Seven-Day Adventist? I looked up your Lateran Treaty. Didn't see much in Wikipedia, but I did find a Website about what you are saying concerning the 6th king. It was on a Seven-Day Adventist website.

So this new pope we have is the 8th king?

 

[rodd]

Are you a Seven-Day Adventist? I looked up your Lateran Treaty. Didn't see much in Wikipedia, but I did find a Website about what you are saying concerning the 6th king. It was on a Seven-Day Adventist website.

So this new pope we have is the 8th king?

Why be so negative?......one should always leave an open mind to investigate information as to its existence and truth!....it's not so much about what I say!.. but what factual historic records say is the issue here, anyone who for self sake chooses to ignore reality is a fool!....so please, try to consider the facts at hand.

If you google Lateran Treaty you'll get plenty, as you probably well know.

The fact that we are at the 63rd year approx of the generation Jesus spoke of that witnessed the re emergence of the fig tree (Israel) in Matthew 24, is only reasonable to assume if this is so, then the eighth king of that great city that rules over the kings of the world would be around right now.....wouldn't you think so??...if that is the correct interpretation of this prophecy??
We have two great prophecies running parallel to be certain of the times we're living in.

Roman Catholicism also has a prophesy by a monk named Malacky a 12th century monk the prophesied 113 popes then the end,....I'm more interested with what the Bible says but it's interesting that Francis is the 113th. He left clues for identifying each one and they seem acceptably accurate enough.
You can Wicki or Google Saint Malacky and you'll also get plenty.
I'm not a catholic or a seventh day Adventist but it's interesting to see the final 8 popes of Rev 17parallel the Malacky prophesies and identities. Just a little side info!

Well that's what I'm saying to prove my point, just who is he!......he is a king, and the eighth from the line of king popes, because of the Lateran Treaty the Vatican is a sovereign state, therefore its Popes are also Monarchs of the sovereign state of the Vatican. This is what scripture is referring to, they are ecclesiastic kings not secular kings. The beast monarchs of the Vatican, rule over the secular kings.

 

[Bambi]

Why be so negative?......one should always leave an open mind to investigate information as to its existence and truth!....it's not so much about what I say!.. but what factual historic records say is the issue here, anyone who for self sake chooses to ignore reality is a fool!....so please, try to consider the facts at hand.

I'm negative! No just curious. Have you ever read Josephus' 'War of the Jews'?

If you google Lateran Treaty you'll get plenty, as you probably well know.

The fact that we are at the 63rd year approx of the generation Jesus spoke of that witnessed the re emergence of the fig tree (Israel) in Matthew 24, is only reasonable to assume if this is so, then the eighth king of that great city that rules over the kings of the world would be around right now.....wouldn't you think so??...if that is the correct interpretation of this prophecy??
We have two great prophecies running parallel to be certain of the times we're living in.

Roman Catholicism also has a prophesy by a monk named Malacky a 12th century monk the prophesied 113 popes then the end,....I'm more interested with what the Bible says but it's interesting that Francis is the 113th. He left clues for identifying each one and they seem acceptably accurate enough.
You can Wicki or Google Saint Malacky and you'll also get plenty.
I'm not a catholic or a seventh day Adventist but it's interesting to see the final 8 popes of Rev 17parallel the Malacky prophesies and identities. Just a little side info!

Well that's what I'm saying to prove my point, just who is he!......he is a king, and the eighth from the line of king popes, because of the Lateran Treaty the Vatican is a sovereign state, therefore its Popes are also Monarchs of the sovereign state of the Vatican. This is what scripture is referring to, they are ecclesiastic kings not secular kings. The beast monarchs of the Vatican, rule over the secular kings.

You can find anywhere in history and say this is a fulfillment of Revelation or some prophecy from the Old Testament. They've been doing it for years now.

You'll find throughout scripture Gods prophets were given twofold messages, as in Mathew 24, although in that case it was the disciples requesting the information, firstly the immediate then the distant future, but this is the general rule of prophetic revelations.

"If the Scripture has more than one meaning, it has no meaning at all." John Owen 1616-1683

 

[rodd]

You negative,.....nah!....as for the stuff I've told you, watch this space!......solid 20th century history, anyway you can think what you like about the sixth king, all I'm trying to do is put some substance around it!

And I didn't say scripture had more than one meaning, I said the prophets received prophecy pertaining to their time and then future time, not the same prophecy, but further revelation given concurrent to the earlier.
As in Mathew 24,...1). when will these things happen?(the siege that left no stone upon the other 70AD)....2) and what will be the signs of the second coming and the end of the age, it's a double pronged question therefore the answer is dualistic in content.

Looks like I've hit upon the resident Prophetic inquisitor! .I agree with John Owen, no probs!

 

[Bambi]

You negative,.....nah!....as for the stuff I've told you, watch this space!......solid 20th century history, anyway you can think what you like about the sixth king, all I'm trying to do is put some substance around it!

And I didn't say scripture had more than one meaning, I said the prophets received prophecy pertaining to their time and then future time, not the same prophecy, but further revelation given concurrent to the earlier.
As in Mathew 24,...1). when will these things happen?(the siege that left no stone upon the other 70AD)....2) and what will be the signs of the second coming and the end of the age, it's a double pronged question therefore the answer is dualistic in content.

Looks like I've hit upon the resident Prophetic inquisitor! .I agree with John Owen, no probs!

The prophecy in Matt 24 was fulfilled by 70 AD. All of it. It doesn't say his second coming, it says his coming. Christ came in judgment against those who killed him. Matt 23:34-39. End of the age is about the end of the Jewish age. The end of the Jewish form of worship. No more do we go to Jerusalem to visit a temple we worship in spirit and in truth. John 4:21-24. So this passage in Matt was fully fulfilled by 70 AD. It will not be re-fulfilled sometime in the future.

 

[New Legacy]

I am no preterist either. I follow the same methodology as the early church fathers and the reformers, that is historicism. Might I suggest you take a look at the thread :Were they right?" As you read through that thread, don't miss the point that it isn't about a 'revived Roman empire' but rather a continuation of the Roman Empire...an empire that has never gone away since its inception, it merely has changed its form, from pagan to counterfeit Christianity. Like the statue in Daniel 2, there is no gap between the fourth metal that represents Rome, and the second coming. And the little horn that grows out of the 10 horns before it, it also was still alive and well at the second coming. More on that however on the other thread, You are welcome to comment there.

If what you propose in your post is the truth, then it must comply with every single aspect of prophecy, without exception. If it deviates in just one small point, it isn't the fulfillment of the prophecy.

Your view does not seem historical in either sense of the world. You seem to think Revelation and its concerns are about what is to come. Revelation has traditionally been understood as a book meant to comfort Christians who were about to undergo a great persecution by the Roman Imperial cult. There is sort of a glimpse of the very end.

It was only in recent centuries that Revelation has been reconsidered to be talking about events happening today or in the near future, rather than talking about the events that were taking place at the time it was written.

 

[New Legacy]

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Many say that Revelation was written after 70 AD. But when you read these verses, that's not possible.

Verse 10 state that there are 7 kings, 5 are fallen, one is, and the 7th hasn't come yet but when he does will come only for a short time. Caesars are the kings of the Roman empire. If you look up the first seven Caesars you will find that the 6th Caesar is Nero. The 7th is Galba and he only lasted 6-7 months.

The beast is Rome/Nero. The numbering system back then was also to use letters for numbers. If you take Nero's name and title in either Greek or Hebrew(I forget which) it adds up to 666. I've even heard if you use the Latin and you use a Bible that was translated from the Latin the spelling will add up to, (I think) 616, which also adds up in the spelling of Nero.

So I believe the beast is Rome/Nero.

Topics like these and the constant guessing games about what represents what shows the problem in the futurist view of Revelation. It serves no purpose except to be a guessing game that no one has ever gotten right.

The traditional view of Revelation, as containing events at the time it was written, not in the future, seems the most sensible. If Revelation is about Nero and the Roman Empire and cult, then it has meaning. If Revelation is about black helicopters and Russia and the UN, then Revelation is a game.