The Bible and the Word of God

[Rhema]

It has been a long theological debate (decades before my time) as to whether the Bible IS the Word of God or whether the Bible CONTAINS the Word of God.

Technically, one could say that the Bible IS NOT the Word of God if there is anything in the Bible that directly states that it is NOT the Word of God. Oddly enough Paul provides such evidence:

But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.​

(1 Corinthians 7:12 NKJV)

To the rest I say—I and not the Lord—that if any believer has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.​

(1 Corinthians 7:12 NRSV)

Paul directly states that his council is from him and "not the Lord." If something is Not from the Lord, then it's not the Word of God. How could it be? Rather, it's the Word of Paul.

Now I'm sure there are other considerations and opinions and excuses and objections and rants and raves, but the above would lead one to conclude that the Bible contains the Word of God. Even Jesus seems to give testimony about this, since it is by Jesus that one is saved, not the scripture.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.​

(John 5:39 NKJV)

"You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that testify on my behalf.​

(John 5:39 NRSV)

As one can read above, then, Jesus directly states that the scriptures (GRAPHE or Bible) testifies to Him - the Word of God (LOGOS).

So the Bible is not the Word of God, but rather is a testimony about the Word of God. It contains a testimony about the LOGOS(word) of God - Jesus.

And that testimony should be in our hearts rather than clutched to our hearts because of superstition in having a holy book.

You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.​

(2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NKJV)

Of course there is more I could say, and I might do so later, but I think the above provides a good start for explaining my views.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I thought maybe I should clarify....

The Bible contains Testimony about the Word of God.

Rhema
(What a wonderful treasure is this testimony.)

 

[Rhema]

Tell us , is the scripture the Word of God?

My standard answer to this is which Word? The Bible says there are two of them.

There are two different Greek phrases that have been translated to "Word of God" in English bibles.

There is the LOGOS(word)-of-God, and the RHEMA(word)-of-God, but English readers cannot see this. All they can see is "Word of God." And yet the two concepts of LOGOS and RHEMA are very different. I've always wondered about the lying translators. (Okay, to be honest, I've always gotten angry at the lying translators - those who deceitfully handle scripture.)

From what I see, Bill, the Bible clearly defines the LOGOS(word)-of-God to be Jesus Himself (along with His teachings); and the RHEMA(word)-of-God is defined by the Bible to be the Holy Spirit.

Bill, doesn't God speak to you directly? (I know he does) and the Bible calls that the RHEMA(word) of God. If I understand correctly, then, YOU hear the Word-of-God(RHEMA). Let me know if need to explain any further.

But whenever we read in the Bible about the "Word of God" yet substitute the word "Bible" (or scripture) in its place, we'll never understand what the Bible (or scripture) is saying about the "Word of God" (either of them).

I can't help but think that I'd better let the Bible define the "Word of God" for me (both of them).

What more can I say?

Rhema
(which just means, "I speak")

 

[Bill]

My standard answer to this is which Word? The Bible says there are two of them.

There are two different Greek phrases that have been translated to "Word of God" in English bibles.

There is the LOGOS(word)-of-God, and the RHEMA(word)-of-God, but English readers cannot see this. All they can see is "Word of God." And yet the two concepts of LOGOS and RHEMA are very different. I've always wondered about the lying translators. (Okay, to be honest, I've always gotten angry at the lying translators - those who deceitfully handle scripture.)

From what I see, Bill, the Bible clearly defines the LOGOS(word)-of-God to be Jesus Himself (along with His teachings); and the RHEMA(word)-of-God is defined by the Bible to be the Holy Spirit.

Bill, doesn't God speak to you directly? (I know he does) and the Bible calls that the RHEMA(word) of God. If I understand correctly, then, YOU hear the Word-of-God(RHEMA). Let me know if need to explain any further.

But whenever we read in the Bible about the "Word of God" yet substitute the word "Bible" (or scripture) in its place, we'll never understand what the Bible (or scripture) is saying about the "Word of God" (either of them).

I can't help but think that I'd better let the Bible define the "Word of God" for me (both of them).

What more can I say?

Rhema
(which just means, "I speak")

No I did not need you to explain any of it to me, but I wanted you to save this because it doesn't matter if it comes from Jesus or the Holy Spirit it's still the word of God.

Is God not a trinity? The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. So what part of the Holy Spirit is not God or what part of Jesus is not God.

Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father - One God

 

[twcstp]

Divorce was never in God's plan.

KJV He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

See, what we have here is the truth. When a man 'knows' his wife, he and she become one flesh. You know what this means.

His council IS Godly council, acceptable and pure, and from God.

 

[Bill]

Divorce was never in God's plan.

KJV He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

See, what we have here is the truth. When a man 'knows' his wife, he and she become one flesh. You know what this means.

His council IS Godly council, acceptable and pure, and from God.

Exactly correct!!! Excellent!!!

What God brings together, let no one divide.

The two become one flesh.

Are we so trivial with our oath to God as to throw away our marriage.

 

[Rhema]

No I did not need you to explain any of it to me,

But of course not. You're Bill, and hence have no need for anyone to explain anything to you, being guided by Rhema as you are. But you're also not the only person on the forum. I was explaining things to anyone who has ears to hear.

But you did directly confront me: ...

Tell us , is the scripture the Word of God?

And I thought I'd at least be polite enough to provide an answer that makes sense.

I wanted you to save this because it doesn't matter if it comes from Jesus or the Holy Spirit it's still the word of God.

Yes indeed, Jesus is the Word-of-God-(LOGOS) and the Holy Spirit is the Word-of-God-(RHEMA). (Although there is no Word-of-God-(GRAPHE) described in the GRAPHE (Scriptures / writings).)

Now, not wanting to presume, it somewhat seems that you're agreeing with me here about the Bible. Yes? No? Pineapple?

And one certainly hopes that the Church Fathers were led by the RHEMA into living the LOGOS. But thank you. Working on these posts has helped to clarify the language for one of our Fundamentals of the Faith. to wit -

We are to be led by the RHEMA into living the LOGOS.​

Is God not a trinity?

Bill, C'mon. You know that topic is not open for discussion on this forum. BUT...

So what part of the Holy Spirit is not God or what part of Jesus is not God?

That part of the Holy Spirit that is not the Father or the Son; and that part of Jesus which is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.

I shall use the classic Trinitarian proof symbol to support my last statement:

(But by now, everybody should know that I'm not a Classic or Orthodox Trinitarian. I have forgotten more about the Trinity than I ever knew.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Divorce was never in God's plan.

KJV He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

See, what we have here is the truth. When a man 'knows' his wife, he and she become one flesh. You know what this means.

His council IS Godly council, acceptable and pure, and from God.

Truly it is a delight to find someone who understands that divorce is the Word of Moses, and not the Word of God.

I have a sermon called "Jesus Big But," that highlights all the "...but I say unto you" passages in the Sermon on the Mount. (When did you last hear a sermon in your church on that Sermon?)

But we do have other passages in the Bible that lead to a much greater concern on a wider horizon. I'll just post them now for consideration. (Notice that all I'm doing is posting scripture verses.... )

How can you say, "We are wise, and the TORAH of the LORD is with us," when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?​

(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV)

For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.​

(Jeremiah 7:22 NRSV)


Again, thank you @twcstp,

Rhema
(which means "I Speak" or "it is me saying this.")

 

[Bill]

But of course not. You're Bill, and hence have no need for anyone to explain anything to you, being guided by Rhema as you are. But you're also not the only person on the forum. I was explaining things to anyone who has ears to hear.

But you did directly confront me: ...

And I thought I'd at least be polite enough to provide an answer that makes sense.


Yes indeed, Jesus is the Word-of-God-(LOGOS) and the Holy Spirit is the Word-of-God-(RHEMA). (Although there is no Word-of-God-(GRAPHE) described in the GRAPHE (Scriptures / writings).)

Now, not wanting to presume, it somewhat seems that you're agreeing with me here about the Bible. Yes? No? Pineapple?

And one certainly hopes that the Church Fathers were led by the RHEMA into living the LOGOS. But thank you. Working on these posts has helped to clarify the language for one of our Fundamentals of the Faith. to wit -

We are to be led by the RHEMA into living the LOGOS.​

Bill, C'mon. You know that topic is not open for discussion on this forum. BUT...

That part of the Holy Spirit that is not the Father or the Son; and that part of Jesus which is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.

I shall use the classic Trinitarian proof symbol to support my last statement:

(But by now, everybody should know that I'm not a Classic or Orthodox Trinitarian. I have forgotten more about the Trinity than I ever knew.

God bless,
Rhema

We are in union, my friend. And as you were using me as a means to reach others. I also know you have a clearer way of explaining than i do.

Hope you do not mind me bouncing those questions and thoughts off you. In this, and in many other things, we are in agreement. I appreciate your words. Bro. Bear does things in a similar way. There is agreement without saying so.

 

[twcstp]

Truly it is a delight to find someone who understands that divorce is the Word of Moses, and not the Word of God.

I have a sermon called "Jesus Big But," that highlights all the "...but I say unto you" passages in the Sermon on the Mount. (When did you last hear a sermon in your church on that Sermon?)

But we do have other passages in the Bible that lead to a much greater concern on a wider horizon. I'll just post them now for consideration. (Notice that all I'm doing is posting scripture verses.... )

How can you say, "We are wise, and the TORAH of the LORD is with us," when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?​

(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV)

For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.​

(Jeremiah 7:22 NRSV)


Again, thank you @twcstp,

Rhema
(which means "I Speak" or "it is me saying this.")

I only shared what the Lord revealed to me in His Word, which I instantly fell in love with. Glory to God.

 

[twcstp]

Exactly correct!!! Excellent!!!

What God brings together, let no one divide.

The two become one flesh.

Are we so trivial with our oath to God as to throw away our marriage.

This is why sin, which hardens our hearts, is so dangerous. It literally separates us from God's Spirit. May God bring us back in Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Oseas]

It has been a long theological debate (decades before my time) as to whether the Bible IS the Word of God or whether the Bible CONTAINS the Word of God.

Technically, one could say that the Bible IS NOT the Word of God if there is anything in the Bible that directly states that it is NOT the Word of God. Oddly enough Paul provides such evidence:

Paul did not provide nor gave any evidence to concept the Bible is not the Word of GOD. Paul wrote his epistles to the Churches inspired by the Spirit of GOD, his writings, his epistles, are in the Bible. JESUS said: John 4:24-24 GOD is a Spirit: and they that worship GOD must worship Him in spirit and in Truth. And John 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRITt, and they are LIFE.

"Technically"one demonic could say the Bible IS NOT the Word of GOD,for the Spirit of GOD dwelt within the person of Paul Apostle:Romans 8:9: But we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of GOD dwell in us. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand? It's the bread of GOD.

But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.​

(1 Corinthians 7:12 NKJV)

To the rest I say—I and not the Lord—that if any believer has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.​

(1 Corinthians 7:12 NRSV)

Paul directly states that his council is from him and "not the Lord." If something is Not from the Lord, then it's not the Word of God. How could it be? Rather, it's the Word of Paul.

Because the Lord did not give any teaching about these material things, Paul once giving doctrine to the Church of the Lord, to the others, the unbelievers, He says to be capable of giving his opinion humanly speaking, and he said in the same chapter 7 that he had the Spirit of GOD to judge the things of MEN-2Corinthians 7:40, for Paul was making an important judgment about material and spiritual things of HUMAN LIFE for the believers of the Church of Corintho, but there were also unbelievers.

So, this singular event you are bring to discuss under a FALSE interpretation about the Bible, it is not suffice to deny the Bible is the Word of GOD, that is the Holy Scriptures. What you wrote is not your peculiar theory, but a demonic theory, i.e. in the way the Devil likes.

 

[twcstp]

Paul did not provide nor gave any evidence to concept the Bible is not the Word of GOD. Paul wrote his epistles to the Churches inspired by the Spirit of GOD, his writings, his epistles, are in the Bible. JESUS said: John 4:24-24 GOD is a Spirit: and they that worship GOD must worship Him in spirit and in Truth. And John 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRITt, and they are LIFE.

"Technically"one demonic could say the Bible IS NOT the Word of GOD,for the Spirit of GOD dwelt within the person of Paul Apostle:Romans 8:9: But we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of GOD dwell in us. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand? It's the bread of GOD.


Because the Lord did not give any teaching about these material things, Paul once giving doctrine to the Church of the Lord, to the others, the unbelievers, He says to be capable of giving his opinion humanly speaking, and he said in the same chapter 7 that he had the Spirit of GOD to judge the things of MEN-2Corinthians 7:40, for Paul was making an important judgment about material and spiritual things of HUMAN LIFE for the believers of the Church of Corintho, but there were also unbelievers.

So, this singular event you are bring to discuss under a FALSE interpretation about the Bible, it is not suffice to deny the Bible is the Word of GOD, that is the Holy Scriptures. What you wrote is not your peculiar theory, but a demonic theory, i.e. in the way the Devil likes.

Whenever we come into a conversation of any form, our goal should be to communicate as Jesus Christ would have us to; the statement at the end of your post here does not edify our fellow believer in Christ but rather it builds a hedge around his edification in Christ because it is attacking his lack which God alone can fill, and that's where God's Grace is needed and where God's Spirit rests in his walk with The Lord our God. He and I both, and you, all of us have indeed been exposed to the enemies' patterns of oppression, but God gave us the Grace to learn and change and grow in Jesus Christ our Lord, so let's extend the same to those around us whether our thinking is flawed or not because the best you and I can do is give our best for Christ which gives Him Glory, so that He can make known the truth; even the truth that He has given us.

 

[Oseas]

Now I'm sure there are other considerations and opinions and excuses and objections and rants and raves, but the above would lead one to conclude that the Bible contains the Word of God. Even Jesus seems to give testimony about this, since it is by Jesus that one is saved, not the scripture.

1John 5:7 - For there are three that testify in heaven(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8), the Father(GOD the Father) , the Word(the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit(who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person-John 15:26 combined with John 16:12-15), and these three are One.
JESUS said: John 7:38 - He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said(the Bible), out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
(John 5:39 NKJV)

"You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that testify on my behalf.​

(John 5:39 NRSV)

As one can read above, then, Jesus directly states that the scriptures (GRAPHE or Bible) testifies to Him - the Word of God (LOGOS).

To understand what JESUS said, first of all it is necessary to have the Spirit of Christ, "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His".

So the Bible is not the Word of God, but rather is a testimony about the Word of God. It contains a testimony about the LOGOS(word) of God - Jesus.

JESUS said to the Devil: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of GOD. ->Where is written the Word that proceedes out of the MOUTH of GOD? Yeah, where is written the Word of GOD?

Your thinking is from a human perspective, A STUMBLING BLOCK-Genesis 3:1, not from GOD's perspective-Matthew 16:22-23.

And that testimony should be in our hearts rather than clutched to our hearts because of superstition in having a holy book.

What does the Word of GOD say? John 3:31-34

31 He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: He that cometh from above is above all: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is true.

34 For he whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD (as is written tin the Bible, the Holy Scriptures): for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
(2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NKJV)

Of course there is more I could say, and I might do so later, but I think the above provides a good start for explaining my views.

The believers of the Church of Corintho reflected what they had learned from the Apostle according to his doctrines and epistles written to them by the Spirit of the living GOD, the Holy Spirit. What the Church of Corintho learned from the Apostle Paul is witten in the Bible. Take a look.

 

[Oseas]

I thought maybe I should clarify....

The Bible contains Testimony about the Word of God.

Rhema
(What a wonderful treasure is this testimony.)

JESUS said to the Devil: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of GOD. ->Where is written the Word that proceedes out of the MOUTH of GOD? Yeah, where is written the Word of GOD?

Your thinking is from a human perspective, A STUMBLING BLOCK-Genesis 3:1, not from GOD's perspective-Matthew 16:22-23.

 

[Oseas]

My standard answer to this is which Word? The Bible says there are two of them.

There are two different Greek phrases that have been translated to "Word of God" in English bibles.

There is the LOGOS(word)-of-God, and the RHEMA(word)-of-God, but English readers cannot see this. All they can see is "Word of God." And yet the two concepts of LOGOS and RHEMA are very different. I've always wondered about the lying translators. (Okay, to be honest, I've always gotten angry at the lying translators - those who deceitfully handle scripture.)

From what I see, Bill, the Bible clearly defines the LOGOS(word)-of-God to be Jesus Himself (along with His teachings); and the RHEMA(word)-of-God is defined by the Bible to be the Holy Spirit.

Bill, doesn't God speak to you directly? (I know he does) and the Bible calls that the RHEMA(word) of God. If I understand correctly, then, YOU hear the Word-of-God(RHEMA). Let me know if need to explain any further.

But whenever we read in the Bible about the "Word of God" yet substitute the word "Bible" (or scripture) in its place, we'll never understand what the Bible (or scripture) is saying about the "Word of God" (either of them).

I can't help but think that I'd better let the Bible define the "Word of God" for me (both of them).

What more can I say?

Rhema
(which just means, "I speak")

The letter kills, the Spirit gives life, GOD is Spirit, understand? The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand? Around 2000 years ago and around 4000 years after Adam, the Word was made flesh-Isaiah 9:6-, For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. JESUS said to the Devil: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of GOD. We know the Word that proceedes out of the mouth of GOD because is written in the Holy Scriptures-the Bible.

GOD,who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days(last 2000 years) spoken unto us by His Son, whom GOD has appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds. Who being the brightness of GOD's glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of the Person of GOD-the Word-, and upholding all things by the Word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

By the way, no man knows who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him-Matthew 11:27.

The word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged Sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must render an account. Hebrews 4:12-13

That said, what you wrote in your post is good for nothing, your testimony you give on GOD is horrible, in the way the Devil likes.
The battle is against three unclean spirits like frogs. Revelation 16:13-15. Why frogs?

THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS?

THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS? Revelation 16:v.13 to 16 1 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast, and out of the mouth of the False Prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Dylan569]

My standard answer to this is which Word? The Bible says there are two of them.

There are two different Greek phrases that have been translated to "Word of God" in English bibles.

There is the LOGOS(word)-of-God, and the RHEMA(word)-of-God, but English readers cannot see this. All they can see is "Word of God." And yet the two concepts of LOGOS and RHEMA are very different. I've always wondered about the lying translators. (Okay, to be honest, I've always gotten angry at the lying translators - those who deceitfully handle scripture.)

From what I see, Bill, the Bible clearly defines the LOGOS(word)-of-God to be Jesus Himself (along with His teachings); and the RHEMA(word)-of-God is defined by the Bible to be the Holy Spirit.

Bill, doesn't God speak to you directly? (I know he does) and the Bible calls that the RHEMA(word) of God. If I understand correctly, then, YOU hear the Word-of-God(RHEMA). Let me know if need to explain any further.

But whenever we read in the Bible about the "Word of God" yet substitute the word "Bible" (or scripture) in its place, we'll never understand what the Bible (or scripture) is saying about the "Word of God" (either of them).

I can't help but think that I'd better let the Bible define the "Word of God" for me (both of them).

What more can I say?

Rhema
(which just means, "I speak")

You stated "RHEMA(word)-of-God is defined by the Bible to be the Holy Spirit."

When you substitute the definition of a word, in the place of the word, the meaning will be clearly the same. I find rhema used in the NT 67 times. If you try substituting "Holy Spirit" in those various places, it does not fit. Where in the Bible do you find rhema defined as the Holy Spirit? Can you present any respected NT Greek-English Lexicon that gives that definition for rhema and if you can't produce it, I am to consider you smarter than all of those scholars? Ridiculous

 

[Rhema]

Can you present any respected NT Greek-English Lexicon that gives that definition for rhema and if you can't produce it, I am to consider you smarter than all of those scholars? Ridiculous

I'd be happy to. Actually, let me give you the exact scripture verse, even.

και την περικεφαλαιαν του σωτηριου δεξασθε και την μαχαιραν του πνευματος ο εστιν ρημα θεου​

(Ephesians 6:17 GRK)

"O" is neuter to agree with PNEUMA, not feminine to link to the word MAXAIRA (sword). The PNEUMA is the RHEMA of GOD. The Spirit is the Word(speaking) of God, not the Sword. When one really digs into the Greek, one even finds that the Sword is prayer.

For a longer explanation, please see my post here: It IS worth the read.

Post in thread 'How Do I Put on the Armor of God?'

Jun 29, 2021

Sword of the Spirit: The sword of the Spirit is the Word of God. This includes God's written Word (the Bible), God's incarnate Word (Jesus as Logos), and God's spoken Word (the Holy Spirit within us).

Well there... Hi to all.

It's my first post here, and I'm about to post something that might just freak everybody out on this website, but please bear with me... while my post is meant to edify it will take some thinking (if not study) on your part. In other words, don't dismiss this post out of hand, and yes, I quite understand the scope of its implications.

I wish to...

• Rhema

• 

Just a caution, though, don't fall for the fallacy of Appeal to Authority and dismiss my words out of hand because you haven't heard this teaching from your authorities. I can't count the number of times I've won this argument with Greek linguists. The modern teaching of Eph. 6:17 fails, because the practice of reading the English language has morphed over the last 400 years.

The modifying clause ("which is the RHEMA of God") is written in perfect English in the KJV because the modifying clause is supposed to attach to the antecedent noun. But Americans attach the modifying clause to "Sword" as they drop out the clause "of the Spirit" up inside their heads. It's just the way Americans read English. But in Greek there is no confusion, in that the gender of the modifier follows that of the noun which is modified.

Do you read Greek? I'm not trying to put you down, or puff myself up, it's just a fact of language that when we translate LOGOS into "Word" and we also translate RHEMA into "Word," English speakers cannot tell the difference between the LOGOS and the RHEMA. You can't see it - literally.

LINK to Liddell Scott Lexicon for RHEMA

A. that which is said or spoken, word, saying,​

Now I'll go back and check, but I'm pretty sure that I did not say that RHEMA was the Holy Spirit, but rather that the RHEMA OF GOD is the Holy Spirit. The voice of God SPEAKS to people, and He expects that we as believers are to hear his voice (which is not the ideas from our own mind figuring things out). In Romans 10, Paul described what he heard on the Road to Damascus as RHEMA.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the RHEMA of God (the speaking by Holy Spirit).​

(Romans 10:17 KJV)

Paul's faith came from his hearing (on the Road to Damascus) and such hearing comes from the Holy Spirit - the RHEMA THEOU.

When Peter confessed the Son of Man, was it by his human thoughts that he figured this out? I trow not.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. ​

(Matthew 16:17 KJV)

So who said this to Peter? Who told Peter? What RHEMA did Peter receive? A revelation from the Father in heaven (dia) by means of the Holy Spirit.

You stated "RHEMA(word)-of-God is defined by the Bible to be the Holy Spirit."

Yes, not RHEMA, but RHEMA THEOU, as shown above.

I find rhema used in the NT 67 times. If you try substituting "Holy Spirit" in those various places, it does not fit.

And I encourage you to do the entire word study for RHEMA, but let's start with the first verse in which it is written:

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every RHEMA that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.​

(Matthew 4:4 KJV)

Sometimes these are recorded. Sometimes they are not.

Here was the Hebrews BIG mistake:

And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.​

(Exodus 20:19 KJV)

They rejected the RHEMA THEOU. It's a pretty scary thing the first time GOD talks to you.

I am to consider you smarter than all of those scholars? Ridiculous

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[Bill]

I'd be happy to. Actually, let me give you the exact scripture verse, even.

και την περικεφαλαιαν του σωτηριου δεξασθε και την μαχαιραν του πνευματος ο εστιν ρημα θεου​

(Ephesians 6:17 GRK)

"O" is neuter to agree with PNEUMA, not feminine to link to the word MAXAIRA (sword). The PNEUMA is the RHEMA of GOD. The Spirit is the Word(speaking) of God, not the Sword. When one really digs into the Greek, one even finds that the Sword is prayer.

For a longer explanation, please see my post here: It IS worth the read.

Post in thread 'How Do I Put on the Armor of God?'

Jun 29, 2021

Sword of the Spirit: The sword of the Spirit is the Word of God. This includes God's written Word (the Bible), God's incarnate Word (Jesus as Logos), and God's spoken Word (the Holy Spirit within us).

Well there... Hi to all.

It's my first post here, and I'm about to post something that might just freak everybody out on this website, but please bear with me... while my post is meant to edify it will take some thinking (if not study) on your part. In other words, don't dismiss this post out of hand, and yes, I quite understand the scope of its implications.

I wish to...

• Rhema

• 

Just a caution, though, don't fall for the fallacy of Appeal to Authority and dismiss my words out of hand because you haven't heard this teaching from your authorities. I can't count the number of times I've won this argument with Greek linguists. The modern teaching of Eph. 6:17 fails, because the practice of reading the English language has morphed over the last 400 years.

The modifying clause ("which is the RHEMA of God") is written in perfect English in the KJV because the modifying clause is supposed to attach to the antecedent noun. But Americans attach the modifying clause to "Sword" as they drop out the clause "of the Spirit" up inside their heads. It's just the way Americans read English. But in Greek there is no confusion, in that the gender of the modifier follows that of the noun which is modified.

Do you read Greek? I'm not trying to put you down, or puff myself up, it's just a fact of language that when we translate LOGOS into "Word" and we also translate RHEMA into "Word," English speakers cannot tell the difference between the LOGOS and the RHEMA. You can't see it - literally.

LINK to Liddell Scott Lexicon for RHEMA

A. that which is said or spoken, word, saying,​

Now I'll go back and check, but I'm pretty sure that I did not say that RHEMA was the Holy Spirit, but rather that the RHEMA OF GOD is the Holy Spirit. The voice of God SPEAKS to people, and He expects that we as believers are to hear his voice (which is not the ideas from our own mind figuring things out). In Romans 10, Paul described what he heard on the Road to Damascus as RHEMA.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the RHEMA of God (the speaking by Holy Spirit).​

(Romans 10:17 KJV)

Paul's faith came from his hearing (on the Road to Damascus) and such hearing comes from the Holy Spirit - the RHEMA THEOU.

When Peter confessed the Son of Man, was it by his human thoughts that he figured this out? I trow not.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. ​

(Matthew 16:17 KJV)

So who said this to Peter? Who told Peter? What RHEMA did Peter receive? A revelation from the Father in heaven (dia) by means of the Holy Spirit.


Yes, not RHEMA, but RHEMA THEOU, as shown above.


And I encourage you to do the entire word study for RHEMA, but let's start with the first verse in which it is written:

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every RHEMA that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.​

(Matthew 4:4 KJV)

Sometimes these are recorded. Sometimes they are not.

Here was the Hebrews BIG mistake:

And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.​

(Exodus 20:19 KJV)

They rejected the RHEMA THEOU. It's a pretty scary thing the first time GOD talks to you.





Blessings,
Rhema

I am the Sword of God