The church is being deceived to believe in a dual natured false Messiah and they do not know!

[Enxu]

What did Jesus mean when He said “I and the Father are one”? This oneness is talked about in Genesis whereby a man and a woman are joined together in sexual intercourse and become one flesh. In a similar but supernatural way the Father and Jesus are joined together as one. If Jesus meant that He and the Father are one God (meaning both are divine), He would have plainly stated “I and the Father are one GOD”! But clearly that is NOT what He meant!

Yet another argument that Jesus retained His divinity as a Man is that He can forgive sins, meaning He must be God. But what did Jesus actually say:

Matthew 9:6 So I will prove to you that the Son of Man has the authority on earth to forgive sins.” Then Jesus turned to the paralyzed man and said, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and go home!”

He called Himself the Son of MAN, who had authority to forgive sins! (Also seen in Mark 2:10, Luke 5:24) So clearly He never said He was God and therefore can forgive sins! That again clearly proves that as the Man of Nazareth, He did NOT retain any divinity but was fully and only Man!


So where did Jesus’ authority (to do anything) come from? He said clearly:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

The authority was given to Jesus, by God our Father!

 

[Dave M]

Reject False Doctrines

If anyone teaches another doctrine and disagrees with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and with godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. Instead, he has an unhealthy interest in controversies and semantics, out of which come envy, strife, abusive talk, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind who are devoid of the truth. These men regard godliness as a means of gain.a

 

[Enxu]

Reject False Doctrines

If anyone teaches another doctrine and disagrees with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and with godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. Instead, he has an unhealthy interest in controversies and semantics, out of which come envy, strife, abusive talk, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind who are devoid of the truth. These men regard godliness as a means of gain.a

I only stated what the Scriptures said. The trinity doctrine etc are however not in the Scriptures and therefore false. Are YOU rejecting them??

And wow, suddenly I am accused as the contentious one when I am speaking against false doctrines. Hmm. I have yet to accuse anyone here of anything. Have you truly sought God about the truth?

The trinity false doctrine is proven by many historians to be extra biblical and man-made. If you truly love the truth, do your own research.

 

[Enxu]

I am only answering the arguments and doctrines presented to me earlier and then just because of this I am falsely accused of having unhealthy interests in controversies!

Very evident what kind of spirit is really behind the false doctrines I speak out against!

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Sister @Enxu
I've asked this question before (not on this thread), but received no answer. Let me try it again here.

Was there any difference between the healings of Jesus & Peter?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Enxu]

Dear Sister @Enxu
I've asked this question before (not on this thread), but received no answer. Let me try it again here.

Was there any difference between the healings of Jesus & Peter?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Please show me what Scriptures you refer to.

When Jesus healed anyone, it was by the Spirit of God, this God is the one whom He called Father. When Peter healed, it was in the name of Jesus, but again he did it by the Spirit (power) of God. It is the same Spirit that was in Jesus when He was a Man.

 

[Sue D.]

Dave M has been doing an excellent job of sharing the Truth with you and others who've been listening here. Every so often a person Will get into a false teaching and believe it.

The trinity / Godhead is Very Biblical -- it can be 'seen' throughout Scripture.

In the New Testiment -- people are being baptised in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28 end of chapter.

Our salvation is made possible By the trinity / God head.

And, yes, John 10:30 Jesus Christ - even while here on earth -- Especially then, Was God in the flesh -- that's what incarnate means.

the Holy Spirit came upon Mary while she was a virgin which made Jesus Christ both human through Mary and Divine through his conception by the Holy Spirit. That was essential -- otherwise His death on the cross would have meant nothing spiritually. He would have only been another Jewish man enduring an agonizing death. He would have remained dead. No bodily resurrection. And That was essential, too.

You were able to experience Your radical change of life Because Jesus Christ Was both deity and human when He died For you -- in your place. And He was able To rise again from the dead for You , personally.

 

[Enxu]

Argument: Jesus Christ is equal with God the Father.

John 14:28 My Father is GREATER than I.

1 Corinthians 11:3 The HEAD of Christ is God.

Argument proven false by Scriptures and not my own words!

 

[Enxu]

The trinity / Godhead is Very Biblical -- it can be 'seen' throughout Scripture.

In the New Testiment -- people are being baptised in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28 end of chapter.

The Roman Catholic Church CHANGED the baptism formula from “in the name of Jesus Christ” to the false trinity formula as attested by multiple sources:

The Catholic Encyclopedia II (Page 263)
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.”

Britannica Encyclopedia 11th Edition,Vol 3 (Page 82, and Pages 365-366)
“Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.”- “The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, & Holy Ghost by the Catholic Church in the second century.”

Canney Encylopedia of Religion (Page 53)
“The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of the Trinity doctrine in the 2nd century.”

 

[Enxu]

Dear Sister @Enxu
I've asked this question before (not on this thread), but received no answer. Let me try it again here.

Was there any difference between the healings of Jesus & Peter?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Now who or what is the Holy Spirit? I show you from the Gospel:

John 15:26 But when the Helper comes, whom (hos) I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who (hos) proceeds from the Father, He (ekeinos) will testify of Me.

“Strong’s Concordance G3739 and G1556 confirms that the Greek words hos and ekeinos can also mean which and it.” So a more accurate translation should have been:

John 15:26 But when the Helper comes, which (hos) I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth which (hos) proceeds from the Father, it (ekeinos) will testify of Me.

It is the Spirit of the Father and proceeds from Him. There is not another third person independent of the Father as trinity falsely teaches.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Please show me what Scriptures you refer to.

When Jesus healed anyone, it was by the Spirit of God, this God is the one whom He called Father. When Peter healed, it was in the name of Jesus, but again he did it by the Spirit (power) of God. It is the same Spirit that was in Jesus when He was a Man.

Dear Enxu,
Very good. Why was Jesus Worshipped and Peter was not? Understanding that Worship speaks to the Devine? The healings at times were even the same, and in a certain sense "Healing by Shadow" done by Peter some might consider greater, but at no time was he worshipped. When a man did attempt to worship Peter one time in Caesarea which was not for a healing, what did Peter say? "Stand up; I myself also am a man." Meaning not to be worshipped which is only for the Devine. Understand that Jesus accepted the Worship as being His due not just for the healing either, as can also be found to happened in Scripture. Why did He not stop them, while Peter did? For Jesus saw it as His due being the Son of God or the Devine, while Peter knew he was just a man and undeserving of worship that is reserved for God alone.

I mention this, because it is important to understand how Jesus saw Himself as being. That is the point I am trying to show you. Scripture can be pulled to show this or that, and justify just about anything, and it has been i.e. Prosperity Gospel, the Godhead being three or in other words the Trinity, or Oneness, God being only in a singular manifestation at any given time, meaning never separate etc.

In this instance, what He said and what He did is what will tell you who He was prior to His incarnation as the Christ, who He was as the incarnation of Christ, and who He is forever as the resurrected Christ. If you're not sure on this then look to who His enemies and what they said. Meaning, they would have no reason to lie, because they didn't believe Him anyway, and yet they understood that what He was saying even by His death that He was Son of God, and so God.

I realize that I cannot change your mind nor will you be able to mine. I tell you this that you may know and understand, though not necessarily accept. There have been others who have come here to Talk Jesus and espoused this same theology that you are doing here, and in other threads. They have eventually left, or been banned. Understand, that it will not be for the espousing of this particular theology, but rather how you comport yourself while doing so. Discussion of theology can frustrate many, because they believe they are communicating the truth, and the recipients of them are either deceived or something worse. This provides no outlet for the high emotions that result from this realization. Acceptance, the ability to move on, and still communicate with such people, sadly, for many who find themselves in this position is not an option.

We are about waiting for the return of our Lord and Savior, and it is the unsaved that we seek to share the Gospel with, while also providing a place of refuge for the believer who travel online and seek a temporary respite from the Darkness that is out there. A place where they can break bread with other believers, and/or discuss theological items etc. as you are doing here. But all the while they are able to separate themselves at the end of such discussions, if not in agreement, at least still in an understanding that Jesus is still Lord in our own individual lives, and so will continue to Love one another as they go their separate ways. Maybe to other discussions, or maybe not. Still, the fellowship and love for one another should override the differences found. For as 1 Corinthians 13:12-13 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these [is] love.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Enxu]

Dear Enxu,
Very good. Why was Jesus Worshipped and Peter was not? Understanding that Worship speaks to the Devine? The healings at times were even the same, and in a certain sense "Healing by Shadow" done by Peter some might consider greater, but at no time was he worshipped. When a man did attempt to worship Peter one time in Caesarea which was not for a healing, what did Peter say? "Stand up; I myself also am a man." Meaning not to be worshipped which is only for the Devine. Understand that Jesus accepted the Worship as being His due not just for the healing either, as can also be found to happened in Scripture. Why did He not stop them, while Peter did? For Jesus saw it as His due being the Son of God or the Devine, while Peter knew he was just a man and undeserving of worship that is reserved for God alone.

Jesus was worshipped for His identity or who He was in the OT: God. In fact His very identity as the begotten Son renders Him worshipp-able. He can take on any nature (flesh or Spirit) and that still does not change His identity. Peter or anyone else could never be worshipped because they never were God or the only Begotten Son.

I can also quote a Scripture that shows Jesus did not consider Himself God when He was the Man of Nazareth:

Mark 1:10 And Jesus said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

It becomes confusing now doesn’t it? Yet I see no contradiction here. Because even though His identity was the Son of God, He was in fact Man in nature and therefore He makes it clear that only God is good.

 

[Enxu]

I mention this, because it is important to understand how Jesus saw Himself as being. That is the point I am trying to show you. Scripture can be pulled to show this or that, and justify just about anything, and it has been i.e. Prosperity Gospel, the Godhead being three or in other words the Trinity, or Oneness, God being only in a singular manifestation at any given time, meaning never separate etc.

In this instance, what He said and what He did is what will tell you who He was prior to His incarnation as the Christ, who He was as the incarnation of Christ, and who He is forever as the resurrected Christ. If you're not sure on this then look to who His enemies and what they said. Meaning, they would have no reason to lie, because they didn't believe Him anyway, and yet they understood that what He was saying even by His death that He was Son of God, and so God.

I realize that I cannot change your mind nor will you be able to mine. I tell you this that you may know and understand, though not necessarily accept. There have been others who have come here to Talk Jesus and espoused this same theology that you are doing here, and in other threads. They have eventually left, or been banned. Understand, that it will not be for the espousing of this particular theology, but rather how you comport yourself while doing so. Discussion of theology can frustrate many, because they believe they are communicating the truth, and the recipients of them are either deceived or something worse. This provides no outlet for the high emotions that result from this realization. Acceptance, the ability to move on, and still communicate with such people, sadly, for many who find themselves in this position is not an option.

We are about waiting for the return of our Lord and Savior, and it is the unsaved that we seek to share the Gospel with, while also providing a place of refuge for the believer who travel online and seek a temporary respite from the Darkness that is out there. A place where they can break bread with other believers, and/or discuss theological items etc. as you are doing here. But all the while they are able to separate themselves at the end of such discussions, if not in agreement, at least still in an understanding that Jesus is still Lord in our own individual lives, and so will continue to Love one another as they go their separate ways. Maybe to other discussions, or maybe not. Still, the fellowship and love for one another should override the differences found. For as 1 Corinthians 13:12-13 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these [is] love.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Jesus made it very clear that He was both Son of God and Son of Man. Son of God or only Begotten Son is His unique identity, Son of Man was His nature. His nature was flesh just like our nature is flesh, that is why He stresses so much on the term Son of Man and why He was called the Man of Nazareth.

If you study the Gospel, Jesus’ enemies accused Him of blasphemy, accusing Him of saying He was God. Did Jesus ever say “I did not blaspheme.” in defense of Himself? Jesus was fully aware of how His words could be misconstrued as blasphemy, yet He never defended Himself regarding this matter. Why? Because when He said He was the I AM, the Son, He was talking about His true identity, not His nature, yet His enemies refused to believe Him. If He was indeed God in nature at that time, He could easily have shown that He did not blaspheme. He did not do so.

An analogy: One’s identity is that of the President of the US, but in his nature he is a human. Since his identity is the President, it naturally means he has certain privileges and rights to be honored, worshipped etc. Yet his nature is still flesh.

 

[Enxu]

Dear Enxu,
Very good. Why was Jesus Worshipped and Peter was not? Understanding that Worship speaks to the Devine? The healings at times were even the same, and in a certain sense "Healing by Shadow" done by Peter some might consider greater, but at no time was he worshipped. When a man did attempt to worship Peter one time in Caesarea which was not for a healing, what did Peter say? "Stand up; I myself also am a man." Meaning not to be worshipped which is only for the Devine. Understand that Jesus accepted the Worship as being His due not just for the healing either, as can also be found to happened in Scripture. Why did He not stop them, while Peter did? For Jesus saw it as His due being the Son of God or the Devine, while Peter knew he was just a man and undeserving of worship that is reserved for God alone.

I mention this, because it is important to understand how Jesus saw Himself as being. That is the point I am trying to show you. Scripture can be pulled to show this or that, and justify just about anything, and it has been i.e. Prosperity Gospel, the Godhead being three or in other words the Trinity, or Oneness, God being only in a singular manifestation at any given time, meaning never separate etc.

In this instance, what He said and what He did is what will tell you who He was prior to His incarnation as the Christ, who He was as the incarnation of Christ, and who He is forever as the resurrected Christ. If you're not sure on this then look to who His enemies and what they said. Meaning, they would have no reason to lie, because they didn't believe Him anyway, and yet they understood that what He was saying even by His death that He was Son of God, and so God.

I realize that I cannot change your mind nor will you be able to mine. I tell you this that you may know and understand, though not necessarily accept. There have been others who have come here to Talk Jesus and espoused this same theology that you are doing here, and in other threads. They have eventually left, or been banned. Understand, that it will not be for the espousing of this particular theology, but rather how you comport yourself while doing so. Discussion of theology can frustrate many, because they believe they are communicating the truth, and the recipients of them are either deceived or something worse. This provides no outlet for the high emotions that result from this realization. Acceptance, the ability to move on, and still communicate with such people, sadly, for many who find themselves in this position is not an option.

We are about waiting for the return of our Lord and Savior, and it is the unsaved that we seek to share the Gospel with, while also providing a place of refuge for the believer who travel online and seek a temporary respite from the Darkness that is out there. A place where they can break bread with other believers, and/or discuss theological items etc. as you are doing here. But all the while they are able to separate themselves at the end of such discussions, if not in agreement, at least still in an understanding that Jesus is still Lord in our own individual lives, and so will continue to Love one another as they go their separate ways. Maybe to other discussions, or maybe not. Still, the fellowship and love for one another should override the differences found. For as 1 Corinthians 13:12-13 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these [is] love.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

That said I did get frustrated because Scriptures I’ve quoted are not only ignored, other Scriptures are quoted to contradict what I quoted. That is not the right spirit to reading the Bible imo. Then when nothing more can be shown from Scriptures to prove what they believed, I am falsely accused as being contentious and possibly heretical when all I did was to address their arguments with more Scriptures. Notice that when I started this thread I did not drag a single person in with @s to even read it, whoever wanted to read can do so, whoever doesn’t can turn away. I also never once said I am fully correct in everything I said, and people can very well do their own research, studying and seeking of truth.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Jesus was worshipped for His identity or who He was in the OT: God. In fact His very identity as the begotten Son renders Him worshipp-able. He can take on any nature (flesh or Spirit) and that still does not change His identity. Peter or anyone else could never be worshipped because they never were God or the only Begotten Son.

I can also quote a Scripture that shows Jesus did not consider Himself God when He was the Man of Nazareth:

Mark 1:10 And Jesus said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

It becomes confusing now doesn’t it? Yet I see no contradiction here. Because even though His identity was the Son of God, He was in fact Man in nature and therefore He makes it clear that only God is good.

Dear Sister,
First it's Mark 10:18

No it's not confusing. Don't we ask a question, then answer it? Was He not actually just confirming that He is God? Unless you believe that He was saying that He was not good? Can't be that could it? Why not? Because then you'd have to ask yourself why wasn't He good? What actions on His part precluded Him from being so, not just because He wasn't God. God is good because? Of the things that He does. The questions go on and on with what you believe to be true by singling this one verse out by itself. You'd be opening Pandora's box with that line of thought.

There are many things that our Lord said that if we just take at face value easily says one thing, but can and usually does mean another. Look at Mark 10:25 isn't he really talking about putting a camel through the eye of a needle? We can't just take one verse, without the context be it chapter, book, testament, or whole.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Enxu]

Dear Sister,
First it's Mark 10:18

No it's not confusing. Don't we ask a question, then answer it? Was He not actually just confirming that He is God? Unless you believe that He was saying that He was not good? Can't be that could it? Why not? Because then you'd have to ask yourself why wasn't He good? What actions on His part precluded Him from being so, not just because He wasn't God. God is good because? Of the things that He does. The questions go on and on with what you believe to be true by singling this one verse out by itself. You'd be opening Pandora's box with that line of thought.

There are many things that our Lord said that if we just take at face value easily says one thing, but can and usually does mean another. Look at Mark 10:25 isn't he really talking about putting a camel through the eye of a needle? We can't just take one verse, without the context be it chapter, book, testament, or whole.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Yes it’s Mark 10:18, I’ve misquoted.

I already have an analogy on what I believe. Son of God is Jesus’ identity very much like President is Donald Trump’s identity. His unique identity as Son of God renders Him worthy of worship just like Trump’s identity as President renders him worthy of a President’s privileges. His nature as flesh is why He is called Son of Man, just like how Trump’s nature as flesh makes people call him a man.

Take a look at my first post and the verses I quoted, Jesus’ apostles all called Him “Man” whether in their preaching or epistles. According to the belief that His nature is “God”, all His apostles lied. That we all know is impossible.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Jesus made it very clear that He was both Son of God and Son of Man. Son of God or only Begotten Son is His unique identity, Son of Man was His nature. His nature was flesh just like our nature is flesh, that is why He stresses so much on the term Son of Man and why He was called the Man of Nazareth.

If you study the Gospel, Jesus’ enemies accused Him of blasphemy, accusing Him of saying He was God. Did Jesus ever say “I did not blaspheme.” in defense of Himself? Jesus was fully aware of how His words could be misconstrued as blasphemy, yet He never defended Himself regarding this matter. Why? Because when He said He was the I AM, the Son, He was talking about His true identity, not His nature, yet His enemies refused to believe Him. If He was indeed God in nature at that time, He could easily have shown that He did not blaspheme. He did not do so.

An analogy: One’s identity is that of the President of the US, but in his nature he is a human. Since his identity is the President, it naturally means he has certain privileges and rights to be honored, worshipped etc. Yet his nature is still flesh.

Dear Sister,
So, you're saying the only reason He didn't answer was because he was disagreeing with their interpretation of what He said?
Is it possible that He didn't say anything, because it wasn't His time yet?

Please change your analogy or I'd think you believe that part of the President's privilege is that he should be worshipped!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

Yes it’s Mark 10:18, I’ve misquoted.

I already have an analogy on what I believe. Son of God is Jesus’ identity very much like President is Donald Trump’s identity. His unique identity as Son of God renders Him worthy of worship just like Trump’s identity as President renders him worthy of a President’s privileges. His nature as Man is why He is called Son of Man, just like how Trump’s nature as flesh makes people call him a man.

Take a look at my first post, Jesus’ apostles all called Him Man in their preaching or epistles, according to you, His apostles lied about His nature. That we all know is impossible.

Hello Enxu,
So, the Son of God is not Divine to you, but His being Worshipped is okay?
Just checking here.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Enxu]

Dear Sister,
So, you're saying the only reason He didn't answer was because he was disagreeing with their interpretation of what He said?
Is it possible that He didn't say anything, because it wasn't His time yet?

Please change your analogy or I'd think you believe that part of the President's privilege is that he should be worshipped!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

I can’t change that now about the President being worshipped since it’s past 30 minutes but that was just an example to show why Jesus can be worshipped solely based on His identity regardless of His nature. I don’t believe a president is to be worshipped for that matter, even though some rulers in time past have indeed been worshipped!

His enemies refused to believe in His identity in the first place, so they accused Him of blasphemy based on what they know of His nature: flesh.

Even when it was His time to be crucified, He still did not say a single statement along the lines of “I did not blaspheme.” That said, Jesus did speak the truth about His identity, it is just that His enemies used that as an occasion to accuse Him of anything they can. His nature as flesh became that occasion they used maliciously against Him even though He spoke the truth.

 

[Enxu]

Hello Enxu,
So, the Son of God is not Divine to you, but His being Worshipped is okay?
Just checking here.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

As a Man, no because Divinity means Spirit. Jesus was a Man, wasn’t He? Or is He Spirit-Man (half Spirit and half flesh in nature) in your eyes? Such mixing of natures is not biblical anyway and is why God sent the flood to wipe out the offspring of fallen angels and their hybrid (half spirit half flesh) offsprings through human women. (Genesis 6) His identity as Son of God is what makes Him worthy of worship. What is not clear about this?

Was Jesus ever divine? Yes, BEFORE He became a Man.