The Concepts of 'Paulism' vs. The Teachings Of Christ

[MorningStar]

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,

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So you would say these verses are God inspired and that we should follow them accordingly?

Selling your daughter as a sex slave -
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. - Exodus 21:7-11


So, you think its totally righteous to sell your daughter as a sex slave?


Ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die within 2 days -

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)


Do you think its is righteous to own and beat slaves?



Personally, I think these type of verses were added as a corruption to the bible as only an irrational person would think it would be moral to sell your daughter as a sex slave and own slaves and beat slaves. Clearly, these are man-made verses using worldly, and not Godly compassion and love.



I simply do not believe God would actually condone such things.

 

[David777]

Hello Donnie.

Good quote, these divisions must occur.

The Corinthian Church is identical to our Church.

Same old lines drawn in the sand.

1) Paul is not an apostle. (Liberal theologies)
2) You must accept the law, it is Holy. (Circumcission group)
3) The Bible is not inspired by God. (Those without the Spirit)
4) Which Church do you attend. (God help me!)
5) What is your eschatology (thessalonians)
6) Same immoralities.
7) Much the same jostling for control.
8) False brothers and sisters.

What has changed, nothing, mankind has the same reaction
to the Spirit, and to the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[B-A-C]

So you would say these verses are God inspired and that we should follow them accordingly?

Selling your daughter as a sex slave -
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. - Exodus 21:7-11


So, you think its totally righteous to sell your daughter as a sex slave?

Exo 21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
Exo 21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
Exo 21:9 And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
Exo 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

Betrothed to her? Treat her as you would a daughter? Hardly a sex slave. In fact the scripture you quoted doesn't mention sex at all.
Also keep in mind, it wasn't usually the fathers choice to sell his children, but as a slave themselves they were commanded to do so by their own masters.

Ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die within 2 days -

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)

Yet another translation.
Exo 21:7 "When a man sells his daughter to be a handmaid, she doesn't go free after six years like the men.
Exo 21:8 If she doesn't please her master, her family must buy her back; her master doesn't have the right to sell her to foreigners since he broke his word to her.
Exo 21:9 If he turns her over to his son, he has to treat her like a daughter.
Exo 21:10 If he marries another woman, she retains all her full rights to meals, clothing, and marital relations.
Exo 21:11 If he won't do any of these three things for her, she goes free, for nothing.
Exo 21:12 "If someone hits another and death results, the penalty is death.
Exo 21:13 But if there was no intent to kill--if it was an accident, an 'act of God'--I'll set aside a place to which the killer can flee for refuge.

Do you think its is righteous to own and beat slaves?

Righteous, perhaps not. Necessary sometimes to keep slaves from running away or being disobedient? The word "slave" in the Bible is often a word that could be translated as "employee" or "servant".

The word from Exod 21:7 is actually...
אמה
'âmâh
aw-maw'
Apparently a primitive word; a maidservant or female slave: - (hand-) bondmaid (-woman,) maid (-servant).


Personally, I think these type of verses were added as a corruption to the bible as only an irrational person would think it would be moral to sell your daughter as a sex slave and own slaves and beat slaves. Clearly, these are man-made verses using worldly, and not Godly compassion and love.

How do you pick and choose that parts of the Bible you agree with and disagree with? This is how cults get started.
This same God who is love. Says a man that witholds punishment from his son does not love him. He is love yes, he is also just and Holy and demands retribution for certain sins.

I simply do not believe God would actually condone such things.

That is your perogative.
He doesn't want sin. He hates divorce yet he makes allowances for it. (Mat 19:7-8) He doesn't like fornication either, but he gives instruction on what to do if it happens (Exod 22:16)
He doesn't necessarily like indentured slavery either, but he realizes these things happen. Some "slaves" were treated very well. Joseph was a slave that was second only to Pharoah in all of Egypt.

 

[Brother Mike]

All the Word from God.

MorningStar:

Personally, I think these type of verses were added as a corruption to the bible as only an irrational person would think it would be moral to sell your daughter as a sex slave and own slaves and beat slaves. Clearly, these are man-made verses using worldly, and not Godly compassion and love.



I simply do not believe God would actually condone such things.

How do you derive that God is OK with selling your daughter as a sex slave from Exodus 21:7-11. There is nothing in that passage of scripture denoting God saying it OK to do such things. Where did you come up with the term "Sex Slave"?

MorningStar:

Ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die within 2 days

Where does it say that God is OK with beating slaves?

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

God's Word not agreeing with what you think only means you need some mind renewal. God is always right, and it's very prideful to say God had gotten something wrong, or he allowed his word to be corrupted. If the Word is wrong in one place, then every scripture comes under question. Praise the Lord that is not the case.

You also misquoted 2 scriptures in some attempt to get them to mean what you want them to mean. Doing that will only keep things confused for you. God never mentioned selling your daughter for sex, and never mentioned it's OK to beat your slaves. He simply made provision for the people he was dealing with at that time. You have to remember these people were not filled with the Love of God, and did not have the Holy Spirit to help them.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[MorningStar]

I have read it and know it has no contradictions.

it's highly counterproductive for christian forums for some one to claim Bible has contradictions to those who hold view that it doesnt.
Simply your opinion is not wanted, your only showing your ignorance.

Ok, and here we go again with the personal attacks when I'm just posting things straight from our own bible. Meaning, its not "my opinion"...it is right there in scripture for us to learn. So, its never "counter productive" to learn something about our bible that is clearly TRUE.

But yes, I'm sure you're correct. There could never be any contradictions in the bible. Thank you for correcting my "ignorance".

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48

3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16

5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28

6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12

8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19

9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14

10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17

13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28

14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5

17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12

18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31

19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13

20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9

21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21

22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28

23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15

25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7

27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13

28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15

29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20

30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10

31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
Improvidence condemned
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22

32. Anger approved
Eph 4:26
Anger disapproved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20

33. Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1

34. Judging of others forbidden
Matt 7:1,2
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12

35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15

36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1

37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6

38. Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8

39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14

40. Circumcision instituted
Gen 17:10
Circumcision condemned
Gal 5:2

41. The Sabbath instituted
Ex 20:8
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16

42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
Ex 20:11
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
Deut 5:15

43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
the same
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5

44. Baptism commanded
Matt 28:19
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14

45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8

46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
Matt 5:34

47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
Marriage disapproved
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8

48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
Divorce restricted
Matt 5:32

49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Adultery allowed
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3

50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16

51. A man may marry his brother's widow
Deut 25:5
A man may not marry his brother's widow
Lev 20:21

52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Luke 14:26
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29

53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32

54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
Rom 13:1-3,6
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35

55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9

56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10

57. There is an unpardonable sin
Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
Acts 13:39

58. Man was created after the other animals
Gen 1:25,26,27
Man was created before the other animals
Gen 2:18,19

59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
Gen 8:22
Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6

60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart
Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
Pharaoh hardened his own heart
Ex 8:15

61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
All the horses of Egypt did not die
Ex 14:9

62. Moses feared Pharaoh
Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
Moses did not fear Pharaoh
Heb 11:27

63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
Num 25:9
There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
1 Cor 10:8

64. John the Baptist was Elias
Matt 11:14
John the Baptist was not Elias
John 1:21

65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob
Matt 1:16
The father of Mary's husband was Heli
Luke 3:23

66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
Gen 11:12
The father of Salah was Cainan
Luke 3:35,36

67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:2-6

68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
to Christ.
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian
captivity to Christ
Matt 1:12-16

69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
Luke 2:22, 39

70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness
Mark 1:12,13
Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
John 2:1,2

71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
Matt 5:1,2
Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
Luke 6:17,20

72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
Mark 1:14
John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
John 1:43/ John 3:22-24

73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff
and sandals
Mark 6:8,9
Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
staffs nor sandals.
Matt 10:9,10

74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
Matt 15:22
It was a Greek woman who besought Him
Mark 7:26

75. Two blind men besought Jesus
Matt 20:30
Only one blind man besought Him
Luke 18:35,38

76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
Mark 15:25
Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
John 19:14,15

77. The two thieves reviled Christ.
Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
Luke 23:39,40

78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper
John 13:27
Satan entered into him before the supper
Luke 22:3,4,7

79. Judas committed suicide by hanging
Matt 27:5
Judas did not hang himself, but died another way
Acts 1:18

80. The potter's field was purchased by Judas
Acts 1:18
The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests
Matt 27:6,7

81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
John 20:1
There were two women who came to the sepulchre
Matt 28:1

82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:1
There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
Luke 24:10

83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:2
It was some time before sunrise when they came.
John 20:1

84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
they were standing up.
Luke 24:4
There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
Matt 28:2,5

85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
John 20:11,12
There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
Mark 16:5

86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
Matt 12:40
Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>

87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost
Acts 1:8,5
Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost
John 20:22

88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go into Galilee
Matt 28:10
The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
Luke 24:49

89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
Jerusalem
Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
Matt 28:16,17

90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
Acts 1:9,12
Christ ascended from Bethany
Luke 24:50,51

91. Paul's attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood
speechless
Acts 9:7
Paul's attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate
Acts 26:14

92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan
Gen 12:5
Abraham went not knowing where
Heb 11:8

93. Abraham had two sons
Gal 4:22
Abraham had but one son
Heb 11:17

94. Keturah was Abraham's wife
Gen 25:1
Keturah was Abraham's concubine
1 Chron 1:32

95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the
interposition of Providence
Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12
Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years
old without any interposition of providence
Gen 25:1,2

96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor
Josh 24:32
Abraham bought it of Hamor
Acts 7:16

97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed
forever
Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8
Abraham and his seed never received the promised land
Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13

98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan
2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be
correct. Original manuscript was incorrect>
The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan
1 Chron 20:5

99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram
2 Kings 8:25
Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram
2 Kings 9:29

100. Michal had no child
2 Sam 6:23
Michal had five children
2 Sam 21:8

101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel
2 Sam 24:1
David was tempted by Satan to number the people
1 Chron 21:1

102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of
Judah 500,000
2 Sam 24:9
The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of
Judah 470,000
1 Chron 21:5

103. David sinned in numbering the people
2 Sam 24:10
David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah
1 Kings 15:5

104. One of the penalties of David's sin was seven years of
famine.
2 Sam 24:13
It was not seven years, but three years of famine
1 Chron 21:11,12

105. David took seven hundred horsemen
2 Sam 8:4
David took seven thousand horsemen
1 Chron 18:4

106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver
2 Sam 24:24
David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of
gold
1 Chron 21:25

107. David's throne was to endure forever.
Ps 89:35-37
David's throne was cast down
Ps 89:44

There's just a few for you. There are plenty more but I thought this would keep you busy for awhile. But hey, I'm sure you know far more about the bible than anyone I've ever met. I'm sure you could clarify many things for me to get me over my "ignorance".

BTW, you DO realize the Gospels themselves don't even match up on major events, right?

The point is, contradictions do not make the bible untrue, so there is no need to fear them. It actually makes pure faith more important. However, you shouldn't be afraid to question things when they don't match up. I've looked over almost all of these contradictions, and while I don't agree with many of them, there are some that simply can't be rectified by logic or any other means of interpretation or apologetics.

So, like Christ, please forgive me and my ignorance. I'm simply not perfect and inerrant.

God Bless

 

[MorningStar]

MorningStar:


How do you derive that God is OK with selling your daughter as a sex slave from Exodus 21:7-11. There is nothing in that passage of scripture denoting God saying it OK to do such things. Where did you come up with the term "Sex Slave"?

Ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die within 2 days

If all scripture is God inspired, he essentially wrote the bible, correct?

The act of selling your daughter as a slave is obviously condoned if God gives commandments on HOW it should be done.

Likewise, if he does not say "thou shalt not sell your daughter as a slave" (or something to that effect) and yet gives strict commandments on HOW to sell her, then, well....there's your answer.

These practices, and even much worse are plainly condoned...even killing an entire town for just one infidel found there. (Deut 13:13-19)

Once again, this came straight from scripture....not my writings or opinion.

So, do you think its righteous to sell your daughter as a slave?

Do you think God would really give a commandment on HOW to sell your daughter as a slave?

These are perfectly valid questions Christians need to come to terms with as "ignoring" them is ignoring very major parts of the bible. (ie the Mosaic Law in which Jesus refers to quote often).

 

[gdemoss]

So you would say these verses are God inspired and that we should follow them accordingly?

Selling your daughter as a sex slave -
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. - Exodus 21:7-11


So, you think its totally righteous to sell your daughter as a sex slave?


Ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die within 2 days -

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)


Do you think its is righteous to own and beat slaves?



Personally, I think these type of verses were added as a corruption to the bible as only an irrational person would think it would be moral to sell your daughter as a sex slave and own slaves and beat slaves. Clearly, these are man-made verses using worldly, and not Godly compassion and love.



I simply do not believe God would actually condone such things.

First point; Your not bringing up contradictions with which you have claimed exist but are moving in a tangent back to the Old Testament and a culture that offends your sensibilities.

Why would God give Moses law governing the selling of female children to other men as wives or concubines instead of giving them law to state that their children were independent and able to go out on their own free will at the age of 18 or so?

Why would God give Moses law governing whether or not a slave owner should be put to death in connection with the death of his slave?

You think they were added by man and corrupted the word of God. I don't. I am not surprised that an evil and ungodly people needed these kinds of laws to regulate their behavior. We must remember that the law entered in because of transgressions. The law was never meant to make a person righteous. As you can see things changed over time and the true righteousness of God was revealed in Christ, which was kept hidden from the foundation of the world. Our world today is a direct reflection of the first advent of Christ and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit of God upon all flesh.

It is easy for us to look back at Israel and all the messed up things about the way they lived and the laws that were necessary to govern them and think 'what was God thinking?' or 'maybe someone added to the bible'. I just don't think so. The progressive revelation of God to his creation has certainly changed things for the better over the years. I suppose as soon a Adam and Eve fell he could have made Jesus their first child and said "OK from now on everyone has to be like him." But that wasn't his plan.

Do I think it is right to sell my daughters to men as wives or own and beat slaves who don't preform up to my expectation? Absolutely not. Do I think there was good reasoning considering the complete plan of God to allow that kind of unrighteousness to go on but only regulate it by law due to their unrighteousness? Absolutely. God is a genius.

Peace and love, Gods way.

Gary

 

[jari]

So you would say these verses are God inspired and that we should follow them accordingly?

Selling your daughter as a sex slave -
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. - Exodus 21:7-11


So, you think its totally righteous to sell your daughter as a sex slave?

Who said its talking about sex slaves? its just talking about slaves.

Man your making wild assumptions.

Such claim it self does not have biblical validity. It even says right there that he may offer that slave girl to become a wife. thus ending her slavery.

So I dont know where you get that sex slavery part...?

Ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die within 2 days -

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)


Do you think its is righteous to own and beat slaves?

That's not what the scripture is saying at all......

another translation puts it this way:

Exodus 21:20-21

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.



However these OT scriptures are not exactly foundation of christinatty they are just ways of those old times. And it was custom to have slaves back then. Slavery didnt mean stealing of freedom but was possible of free will that slave was to stay with his/hers master after time of slavery was to be over.
This too is found from the scripture.

But again Chrisinaity it self is never meant to take a heed of these writings.

 

[B-A-C]

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31

God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

Have you ever been satisfied with something one day, and disatisfied with it another day? This isn't a contradiction.

2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48

Does either verses say he "ONLY" dwells in...

3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

Does either verses say he "ONLY" dwells in...
I ocassionally dwell indark places, and occassionally in light places, sometimes in shadows of sunny places, and sometimes both at the same time. Still no contradiction...

6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

How did God know where and when to go? He may let us know that he is paying attention to certain events from time to time, but that is different from not knowing.



7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3

etc....

If you look for misunderstanding, you will find it. If you look for something to disagree with, you will find it.

God Bless
[/QUOTE]

 

[MorningStar]

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31

God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

Have you ever been satisfied with something one day, and disatisfied with it another day? This isn't a contradiction.

2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48

Does either verses say he "ONLY" dwells in...

3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

Does either verses say he "ONLY" dwells in...
I ocassionally dwell indark places, and occassionally in light places, sometimes in shadows of sunny places, and sometimes both at the same time. Still no contradiction...

6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

How did God know where and when to go? He may let us know that he is paying attention to certain events from time to time, but that is different from not knowing.



7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3

etc....

If you look for misunderstanding, you will find it. If you look for something to disagree with, you will find it.

God Bless

[/QUOTE]

There ya go! Keep going brother!! :wink:

Fear not the contradictions.....ANSWER THEM!!

 

[MorningStar]

Who said its talking about sex slaves? its just talking about slaves.

Man your making wild assumptions.

Such claim it self does not have biblical validity. It even says right there that he may offer that slave girl to become a wife. thus ending her slavery.

So I dont know where you get that sex slavery part...?

That's not what the scripture is saying at all......

another translation puts it this way:

Exodus 21:20-21

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

However these OT scriptures are not exactly foundation of christinatty they are just ways of those old times. And it was custom to have slaves back then. Slavery didnt mean stealing of freedom but was possible of free will that slave was to stay with his/hers master after time of slavery was to be over.
This too is found from the scripture.

But again Chrisinaity it self is never meant to take a heed of these writings.

You're saying if it was just meant as commandments on how to treat your slaves....its righteous, right?

Explain to us how slavery is righteous again? I'm still confused on that one.


Also, Jesus strictly rebuked the Pharisees for NOT killing their disobedient children as the old law commanded, and for following their own morality, and even called them hypocrites. (Matthew 15:3-7)


So, I think he didn't really want to destroy the old law since he referenced it quite clearly when the Pharisees were not killing their disobedient children as what the Mosaic Law commanded. (Exo 21:15-17)

 

[jari]

Exodus 21
24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,



Mat 5:38-40 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (39) But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (40) And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

would seem Jesus is completely removing these parts of the law. But I think its God's mercy that has always been the final authority....


Mat 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


So law is law and Jesus fulfilled the law (kept the whole law). But we christians are not under the law. But under grace. Which is why Jesus was accused many times for healing sick at sabbath and being merciful for adulteress who was demanded to be stoned according to the law.
So I think there was no contradiction what was written in law vs being christian. But the punishment is removed thanks to God's grace. Laws purpose has always been to show us as sinners. Mercy and grace came through Jesus.


Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[MorningStar]

Who said its talking about sex slaves? its just talking about slaves.

So its ok to sell your daughter as a slave, but not a sex slave, right?

Got it. Thanks for correcting me.

I guess that's why God told us "how" to sell them.


Come on, do you really think God would condone us selling our daughters as slaves???

 

[jari]

You're saying if it was just meant as commandments on how to treat your slaves....its righteous, right?

Explain to us how slavery is righteous again? I'm still confused on that one.


Also, Jesus strictly rebuked the Pharisees for NOT killing their disobedient children as the old law commanded, and for following their own morality, and even called them hypocrites. (Matthew 15:3-7)


So, I think he didn't really want to destroy the old law since he referenced it quite clearly when the Pharisees were not killing their disobedient children as what the Mosaic Law commanded. (Exo 21:15-17)

Jesus never rebuked them of not killing children. He rebuked them of not honoring their parents. And making God's commandment void.
The punishment was death, yes but it was the commandment it self Jesus was talking about.

So He didnt say a word about the death penalty but rebuked them for being hypocrites to remove such important commandment.

so we cant say Jesus was asking death to anyone but was rebuking of ignoring God's commandments.

 

[Brother Mike]

Daughter as slave.

MorningStar:

Do you think God would really give a commandment on HOW to sell your daughter as a slave?

These are perfectly valid questions Christians need to come to terms with as "ignoring" them is ignoring very major parts of the bible. (ie the Mosaic Law in which Jesus refers to quote often).

Questions are perfectly fine and OK. That is what this forum is for. Ignoring the answer however is not good.

These people were going to sell their daughters regardless. It was their custom. God's Law made a provision to give her some rights while being sold. You notice she had rights? You know women at that time were not in very high esteem?

Exo 21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

If a man!
If a man!

The key word is IF here. God is not condemning it, or condoning it. IF a man does sell his daughter as a maidservant, God see's to it she has rights.

You can't sell your daughter today in the USA as a slave. So there is no point here. If laws allow it, she has rights.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

So its ok to sell your daughter as a slave, but not a sex slave, right?

Got it. Thanks for correcting me.

I guess that's why God told us "how" to sell them.


Come on, do you really think God would condone us selling our daughters as slaves???

im no export of the old times but people could become slaves for some periord of time. If you wanted to buy something you could become a slave to earn it.
Or give away your daughter as slave. Its more like a job . because your more like servant with job or duties and tasks. It doesnt mean you live in chains and behind locks like humans have used slaves before.

so slave just means a servant that you own.

and there was law how long you may keep the slave. And law stating that slave could stay if he wanted to after his time of service was over.
So it doesnt sound cruel to me if there was freewill.

Should some father sell his dauther against her freewill to slavery it would be cruelty of the father and not the law.

 

[MorningStar]

Jesus never rebuked them of not killing children. He rebuked them of not honoring their parents. And making God's commandment void.
The punishment was death, yes but it was the commandment it self Jesus was talking about.

So He didnt say a word about the death penalty but rebuked them for being hypocrites to remove such important commandment.

so we cant say Jesus was asking death to anyone but was rebuking of ignoring God's commandments.

But Jesus was God in the flesh, and if he inspired all scripture....he essentially wrote those very commandments to kill disobedient children, correct? (Exo 21:15-17)

So, did he support the Mosaic Law, or not? Did he want to destroy it, or not? ;-)

 

[jari]

But Jesus was God in the flesh, and if he inspired all scripture....he essentially wrote those very commandments to kill disobedient children, correct? (Exo 21:15-17)

So, did he support the Mosaic Law, or not? Did he want to destroy it, or not? ;-)

Yes its God's word.

but we are not to follow this law given by moses.

why not is whole another topic. But it was called the first coveant. And we are now in the second coveant.


Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[MorningStar]

Yes its God's word.

but we are not to follow this law given by moses.

why not is whole another topic. But it was called the first coveant. And we are now in the second coveant.


Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So, what you're saying is that it was ok for "those" people to have slaves, kill homosexuals, non-virgin brides, astrologers, etc. etc. etc. and not for everyone else? :wink:

Why was it ok for them?

Clearly the scripture states them as direct commandments.

Clearly Jesus said he had not come to destroy the old law...so its obviously still in effect for "some" people and not others right?

He supported the old law, as Jesus was a practicing Jew...was he not?

 

[David777]

Hello all.

The Southern United States had slaves working on dem cotton fields.
This was within the last 500 hundred years.

These slaves were not released after seven years,
nor were their children.

Mosaic Law applied well over 3000 years ago.

Under Mosaic Law the slave was released after seven years.

Slaves were usually acquired as a result of a successful war.

Southern slaves were kidnapped, men, women and children.

What a difference we see in the application of Mosaic Law
and human law.

MorningStar slavery was a widely accepted practice.

Mosaic Law was God granting liberty within Israel to the slaves.