Because God removed the ungodly from the way of godly Israel, the jews.
today its quite different. Because Jesus came to establish the new coveant so that we wouldnt have go that way to God anymore, the jewish laws way but through Jesus.
The Concepts of 'Paulism' vs. The Teachings Of Christ
- Thread starter MorningStar
- Start date
Because God removed the ungodly from the way of godly Israel, the jews.
today its quite different. Because Jesus came to establish the new coveant so that we wouldnt have go that way to God anymore, the jewish laws way but through Jesus.
On this subject.
Leviticus 22:31-33 (NKJV)
“Therefore you shall keep My commandments, and perform them: I am the LORD. You shall not profane My holy name, but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel. I am the LORD who sanctifies you, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD.”
The Mosaic Law's target audience is Israel.
God gave the law to Israel for a purpose, please read the
following.
Romans 5:20-21
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The Law's purpose was to magnify sin, where sin increases.
God's grace magnified much more, He sent His Son.
Jesus is the solution to the problem of sin.
That's why Jesus was a Jew, that's why the Mosaic Law
was given. Jesus had to die to set the World free from
death.
A perfect plan with a perfect solution to save all.
I love Jesus, I always will.
Leviticus 22:31-33 (NKJV)
“Therefore you shall keep My commandments, and perform them: I am the LORD. You shall not profane My holy name, but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel. I am the LORD who sanctifies you, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD.”
The Mosaic Law's target audience is Israel.
God gave the law to Israel for a purpose, please read the
following.
Romans 5:20-21
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The Law's purpose was to magnify sin, where sin increases.
God's grace magnified much more, He sent His Son.
Jesus is the solution to the problem of sin.
That's why Jesus was a Jew, that's why the Mosaic Law
was given. Jesus had to die to set the World free from
death.
A perfect plan with a perfect solution to save all.
I love Jesus, I always will.
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Are you a Muslim?
You sound like one.
I never heard Christians complaining about teachings of Paul but I heard it many times from Muslims.
I am glad you are here. You will learn a lot about bible because people here know lot of stuff.
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MorningStar
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What??!!! A Muslim?? You must be joking. Either that or you haven't seen my other posts where I clearly state I am a Christian. The Paulism concept has long been discussed in Christian circles. Granted its more discussed within Judaism, but nor am I a Jew.
Although, if I was.....what difference does it make? Do you want to shut out other people's opinions in a simple discussion that involves our bible?
MorningStar
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Ok so let me get this straight....you're claiming it was ok to have slavery??
What difference does it make WHEN it was being done? It would be wrong and IMMORAL to hold captive slaves THEN, just as it is MORALLY WRONG now. Time had nothing to do with it. You simply don't hold people captive, sell them for money, and beat them physically within an inch of their lives.
It also doesn't matter if it was MORE accepted back then...it was STILL wrong and immoral.
And let's be perfectly clear....the commandments DO in face tell people HOW to buy and sell slaves...and HOW to beat them.
Sorry, but that will never be a moral precept. No matter what type of mental gymnastics you use to try and justify slavery.
To MorningStar
Friend,
Reading the bible and focusing on the "contradiction" depends on one thing: Do you have the same vantage point as God?
If you cannot honestly answer "yes", then you have to defer to the Scriptures as it is intended to be, a revelation from God regarding Himself, His relationship with us, and an expression of His *love* for us, to the level where He sacrifices His own begotten Son.
I have seen very smart people who looked at the Scriptures as though it is a petri dish, to be minced, analyzed, put under the microscope, and it's just pure academia and intellectual exercise. Such point of view misses the biggest part of God's revelation that is relevant to how you orient and map your life, *this* life.
Lord Jesus is the most awesome example you'll ever find in a man *and* God. Follow Him, think about Him, accept His invitation to come into your heart (if you have not).
Apostle Paul did, and it shows in his attitude, outlook on life, endurance in suffering, and in being a champion for the cause of Christ that he is.
Friend,
Reading the bible and focusing on the "contradiction" depends on one thing: Do you have the same vantage point as God?
If you cannot honestly answer "yes", then you have to defer to the Scriptures as it is intended to be, a revelation from God regarding Himself, His relationship with us, and an expression of His *love* for us, to the level where He sacrifices His own begotten Son.
I have seen very smart people who looked at the Scriptures as though it is a petri dish, to be minced, analyzed, put under the microscope, and it's just pure academia and intellectual exercise. Such point of view misses the biggest part of God's revelation that is relevant to how you orient and map your life, *this* life.
Lord Jesus is the most awesome example you'll ever find in a man *and* God. Follow Him, think about Him, accept His invitation to come into your heart (if you have not).
Apostle Paul did, and it shows in his attitude, outlook on life, endurance in suffering, and in being a champion for the cause of Christ that he is.
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MorningStar
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You know, I hear this same rhetoric from good meaning Christians all the time, and yet it still makes no sense whatsoever. Yes, Jesus was a practicing Jew...faithful to the old law....and he specifically said he had NOT come to destroy the old law in the New Testament.
He even rebuked the Pharisees for not following the old law in Matthew 15:3-7. He stated CLEARLY they were hypocrites for following their own sense of morality and for not following the old law...and SPECIFICALLY mentions the law about killing disobedient children.
Here is the exact verse -
Matthew 15:3-7 - "Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23638">4</sup> For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23639">5</sup> But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23640">6</sup> they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23641">7</sup> You hypocrites!"
So, OBVIOUSLY he still supported the old law.
The old law stated clearly they were supposed to kill disobedient children, homosexuals, astrologers, non-virgin brides, and it condoned slavery by telling people how to buy and sell people, and even HOW to beat them.
Therefore, if the claim is that ALL scripture is God inspired...and Jesus WAS God in the flesh, not only did he SUPPORT the old law scripture, he essentially WROTE it through inspiration.
Therefore Jesus supported killing disobedient children and slavery.
So, if you had a child who was disobedient in that manner, would you kill them as what God commanded in the old law?
Do you think child murder is righteous????
Sorry, but there is NO righteous justification for child murder...especially for such petty reasons.
MorningStar
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No, do you?
Do you claim to know the mind of God?
Look brother, I'm simply quoting DIRECTLY from scripture. They aren't my words.
And yes, Paul DID clearly give different teachings on VERY important aspects of Christian doctrine when contrasted to what Jesus said.
Here is a list of just a few of those differences...
Link Edited: Forum Rules
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MorningStar
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For the Jewish people of that time it was acceptable to do. Their guidance was God. At that time, the nations around Israeli were doing things that in comparison made what you have identified fairly tame. Keep in mind that the law was given to them alone and not all nations, as the Gospel has been. Comparing the two is similar to the expression of comparing apples & oranges.
You should ease up some MorningStar because you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing and that is evaluating the right, wrong, and motivation of what God has done. The purview is His and not ours to determine what righteousness is and we can only go by His word as illuminated by the Holy Spirit in determining what that might be.
Only with the desire to reflect the Love of Christ Jesus!
C4E
Kit Carson
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MorningStar.........Hey:l
One example, a older teen boy killed a girl, a little girl, raped her and killed her and threw her body in a dumpster. Daily these older teens commit terrible crimes. Some of them beat and kill their parents, some kill their Grandparents an they commit many crimes.
Deuteronomy 21:18 to 21:21. Speaks of stubborn and rebellious and skips a verse and speaks of a child that is also a glutton and drunkard. It is speaking of young adults. Not children.
The law was to deal with the older teen age young men or women. Young adults, not small children. Simple common sense shows you can speak with and reason with and punish small children and they behave. The key it to do so, and also show love and respect to them.
Under some situations, children become out of control. No amount of talking, counsel, punishment, will solve the situation. This time and place also God commanded that evil, wickedness, all these things be cleaned out of the people and to tolerate them, like we do today, only causes more terrible strife and crime. To build institutions to house them in only provides a burden to the tax paying people who did discipline and raise their kids with compassion and also punishment so they grow up with at least some respect for their elders and for God. Gods laws are so intelligent, and show how they are perfect to deal with any society. It is us who change them and garner all the things we have today.
It is a favorite pastime of those who wish to challenge God to use the killing the babies routine. The bible does not condone killing babies in this instance, it does however show that older young adults can be out of control to the point it was judged for them to be put out and away from the others and killed.
I would say what the Bible does not say, is this would also be a reflection upon the parents, if they did not discipline the young child and let the child become rebellious, shame on them, which we do see in modern times a lot. The young child runs the street, learns crime and all manner of sin, grows to a young adult and commits great crimes, the only reason they do not kill their mother and father is they most of the time have none. Or the parents are also in jail, or the mother is using the child to bring home drugs for herself.
It shows what can and does and has happened when the variables of acceptance of sin are allowed and the moral values of God are ignored.
It is not about baby killing.
Kit
One example, a older teen boy killed a girl, a little girl, raped her and killed her and threw her body in a dumpster. Daily these older teens commit terrible crimes. Some of them beat and kill their parents, some kill their Grandparents an they commit many crimes.
Deuteronomy 21:18 to 21:21. Speaks of stubborn and rebellious and skips a verse and speaks of a child that is also a glutton and drunkard. It is speaking of young adults. Not children.
The law was to deal with the older teen age young men or women. Young adults, not small children. Simple common sense shows you can speak with and reason with and punish small children and they behave. The key it to do so, and also show love and respect to them.
Under some situations, children become out of control. No amount of talking, counsel, punishment, will solve the situation. This time and place also God commanded that evil, wickedness, all these things be cleaned out of the people and to tolerate them, like we do today, only causes more terrible strife and crime. To build institutions to house them in only provides a burden to the tax paying people who did discipline and raise their kids with compassion and also punishment so they grow up with at least some respect for their elders and for God. Gods laws are so intelligent, and show how they are perfect to deal with any society. It is us who change them and garner all the things we have today.
It is a favorite pastime of those who wish to challenge God to use the killing the babies routine. The bible does not condone killing babies in this instance, it does however show that older young adults can be out of control to the point it was judged for them to be put out and away from the others and killed.
I would say what the Bible does not say, is this would also be a reflection upon the parents, if they did not discipline the young child and let the child become rebellious, shame on them, which we do see in modern times a lot. The young child runs the street, learns crime and all manner of sin, grows to a young adult and commits great crimes, the only reason they do not kill their mother and father is they most of the time have none. Or the parents are also in jail, or the mother is using the child to bring home drugs for herself.
It shows what can and does and has happened when the variables of acceptance of sin are allowed and the moral values of God are ignored.
It is not about baby killing.
Kit
He obviously didnt support the punishments written in laws but wanted to pardon everyone.
But the point is that law is still good, honor your parents. No we arent suposed to kill children who do not because God wants mercy. Why the punishment existed in old times was because it was absurd that children would not honor their parents so the law was given to tell to honor them if some children would be so disobedient.
But today were not expected to follow the law for all have sinned and fall short in the glory of God.
like ive said couple of times.. we are pardoned from the judgement of the law thanks to Jesus dying for us on the cross.
But still the law shows us where we break that what is right. Like the law states that homosexuality, witchcraft, stealing, raping, etc are wrong.
I dont think your taking this seriously though because you keep repeating this thing about how Jesus was talking about the law and all that.
But being forgiven by God means that we are not under the curse of the law.
So when Lord knew adultery was wrong and woman was brought to her to be stoned according to the law what did He do? He pardoned her by asking who is among you without sin let him cast the first stone.
(And no one could throw a stone because all had sinned.)
- that is mercy. and thats how we all are forgiven.
But still the law shows us where we break that what is right. Like the law states that homosexuality, witchcraft, stealing, raping, etc are wrong.
I dont think your taking this seriously though because you keep repeating this thing about how Jesus was talking about the law and all that.
But being forgiven by God means that we are not under the curse of the law.
So when Lord knew adultery was wrong and woman was brought to her to be stoned according to the law what did He do? He pardoned her by asking who is among you without sin let him cast the first stone.
(And no one could throw a stone because all had sinned.)
- that is mercy. and thats how we all are forgiven.
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You two reminded me of quote I once read that went like this.
"Kill them all. God will select those who should go to heaven and those who should go to hell."
— Abbot Arnold de Citeaux, 1205 (during the Fourth Crusade)
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However, let's not muzzle communication from either point of view, if the inquiry is founded in Love for each other and not meant to deceive. C4E
John 13:34, 35 Jesus Christ
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Very True.
Yet sometimes I feel that hidden within his commentaries he's providing us a glimpse of how he really feels on any given subject.
