The Error of Dispensationalism

[Dave M]

thoughts

 

[complete]

Hello @Dave M,
I don't watch video clips of this nature. However I am a dispensationalist. Why don't you put your grievances to me, and I will try to answer them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[PloughBoy]

Hello @Dave M,
I don't watch video clips of this nature. However I am a dispensationalist. Why don't you put your grievances to me, and I will try to answer them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I declare “Complete” you it seems is the only that makes look up something.
Here we go again, although I am was a solid reader and have remember the whole Bible “New Scofield Study System, plus word changes copyright 1967,1969. But not a “Dispensationist” concerning natural Israel, nor a student of Dr. Scofield “Footnotes”.
The terms “Dispensationist”, “Dispensation”
“Dispensationalism”
Seems and sometimes defines, so confusing to me. And the term “Zionism”.

Now a “Reformed Baptist”, I am. “Reformed Theology” I am.
“Covenant Theology” I am.
“Calvinist” that speaks “Calvinese” I am, Theology Proper I am.

But that dispensation other stuff I do not know.

Now I know of this dispensation of The Gospel that has been committed to me.

That is the dispensation I know of, that is written in the bible committed to me.
2if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward; 3how that by revelation was made known unto me the mystery, as I wrote before in few words, 4whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ; 5which in other generation was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6to wit , that the Gentiles are fellow-heirs, and fellow-members of the body, and fellow-partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of that grace of God which was given me according to the working of his power. 8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, was this grace given, to preach unto the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things;

 

[complete]

I declare “Complete” you it seems is the only that makes look up something.
Here we go again, although I am was a solid reader and have remember the whole Bible “New Scofield Study System, plus word changes copyright 1967,1969. But not a “Dispensationist” concerning natural Israel, nor a student of Dr. Scofield “Footnotes”.
The terms “Dispensationist”, “Dispensation”
“Dispensationalism”
Seems and sometimes defines, so confusing to me. And the term “Zionism”.

Now a “Reformed Baptist”, I am. “Reformed Theology” I am.
“Covenant Theology” I am.
“Calvinist” that speaks “Calvinese” I am, Theology Proper I am.

But that dispensation other stuff I do not know.

Now I know of this dispensation of The Gospel that has been committed to me.

That is the dispensation I know of, that is written in the bible committed to me.
2if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward; 3how that by revelation was made known unto me the mystery, as I wrote before in few words, 4whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ; 5which in other generation was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6to wit , that the Gentiles are fellow-heirs, and fellow-members of the body, and fellow-partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of that grace of God which was given me according to the working of his power. 8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, was this grace given, to preach unto the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things;

Hello @PloughBoy,

Thank you for your response.

Thank you also for quoting from Ephesians 3:1-10. Precious truth! Towards which I have been guided by the Holy Spirit. God's wonderful provision for the believer in Christ Jesus. A glorious hope, and inheritance, in His Beloved Son! For the Church of the One Body of which Christ is the Head.

I must come back to you, PloughBoy, (God Willing)
This is an acknowledgement of your post,
Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Dave M]

Hello @Dave M,
I don't watch video clips of this nature. However I am a dispensationalist. Why don't you put your grievances to me, and I will try to answer them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi @complete

first question how do you view salvation for all people groups? such as the church now,, versus the people saved in tribulation, verses OT

thanks

 

[PloughBoy]

Hello @PloughBoy,

Thank you for your response.

Thank you also for quoting from Ephesians 3:1-10. Precious truth! Towards which I have been guided by the Holy Spirit. God's wonderful provision for the believer in Christ Jesus. A glorious hope, and inheritance, in His Beloved Son! For the Church of the One Body of which Christ is the Head.

I must come back to you, PloughBoy, (God Willing)
This is an acknowledgement of your post,
Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

Would you be offended, if I ask you everywhere in the Bible if you would replace the word “church” with the Word “congregation”?
If I can remember, only two places in the New Testament it will seem odd.
And replace the word “Christian” with the word “Saint or Saints”.
If this practice is offensive to you dis-regard it. I mean no harm in asking you to do this for a while, even a month. And every time you think “church” captivated it and think “Congregation”. When you think Christian, captivated, Think, “child of GOD”, or “Saint”, “Born of GOD”, One of The “Sons of GOD”!
“there is neither male or female in Christ Jesus” We are “New Creatures” it does not appear what we shall be, but when we see him we will look just like HIM.

“I believe the Bible Teaches that there is only “One” Congregation of GOD” only “One People”, One LORD, One Faith, and One Baptism”,

Now I said I Believe. And I could be wrong. I “hope” I’m not.

“For faith is The Substances of things “Hope” for, The Evidence of Things not seen”

 

[Dave M]

nicely said @PloughBoy

 

[complete]

Hi @complete

first question how do you view salvation for all people groups? such as the church now,, versus the people saved in tribulation, verses OT

thanks

 

[complete]

'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2 Timothy 2:15)

Hello @Dave M,

I look at the word in question,and associated words, find their concordance reference numbers, learn how they are defined within the concordance itself, and then proceed to look them up, within their context, to find out how they are translated, and how the Holy Spirit uses them. Only by so doing can your question be answered in the light of Scriptural usage, without the bias of human understanding. Regardless of persuasion.

This is the principle by which the dispensationalist operates, using the formula given in 2 Timothy 2:15 (above), and that of Acts 17:11,
'These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.'.

* So far I have found eight Hebrew & Greek words translated this way (H3444; H8668; H3468; H4190; H3467; G2532; G4991; G4992).

I realise that I am not in a position to spend my time on this currently, having a wedding anniversary, and birthday celebration within these next few days. So, if you would like to use my reference numbers and search the Scriptures associated with them, the answer to your question will become clear. Not necessarily what individual dispensationalists may believe regarding these things, but what the Bible says, and that is what is the most important, I am sure you will agree.

Forgive me for offering myself as a sounding board, without taking into consideration the demands on my time, but I had not anticipated the degree of complexity of the questions you would be asking, or the work involved in answering them, in order to be thorough, and true to the word of God rightly divided.

I plough my own furrow, and do not measure the Scriptures by the measure of man, whatever their doctrinal basis, the word of God must be the arbiter on all matters of doctrine and practice.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

Would you be offended, if I ask you everywhere in the Bible if you would replace the word “church” with the Word “congregation”?
If I can remember, only two places in the New Testament it will seem odd.
And replace the word “Christian” with the word “Saint or Saints”.
If this practice is offensive to you dis-regard it. I mean no harm in asking you to do this for a while, even a month. And every time you think “church” captivated it and think “Congregation”. When you think Christian, captivated, Think, “child of GOD”, or “Saint”, “Born of GOD”, One of The “Sons of GOD”!
“there is neither male or female in Christ Jesus” We are “New Creatures” it does not appear what we shall be, but when we see him we will look just like HIM.

“I believe the Bible Teaches that there is only “One” Congregation of GOD” only “One People”, One LORD, One Faith, and One Baptism”,

Now I said I Believe. And I could be wrong. I “hope” I’m not.

“For faith is The Substances of things “Hope” for, The Evidence of Things not seen”

Hello @PloughBoy,

No offence caused. I would have no problem using the word, 'Congregation' or 'Assembly', 'Saint' or 'Child of God,' instead of 'Church' or 'Christian', if those words are problematic for you.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Dave M]

'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2 Timothy 2:15)

Hello @Dave M,

I look at the word in question,and associated words, find their concordance reference numbers, learn how they are defined within the concordance itself, and then proceed to look them up, within their context, to find out how they are translated, and how the Holy Spirit uses them. Only by so doing can your question be answered in the light of Scriptural usage, without the bias of human understanding. Regardless of persuasion.

This is the principle by which the dispensationalist operates, using the formula given in 2 Timothy 2:15 (above), and that of Acts 17:11,
'These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.'.

* So far I have found eight Hebrew & Greek words translated this way (H3444; H8668; H3468; H4190; H3467; G2532; G4991; G4992).

I realise that I am not in a position to spend my time on this currently, having a wedding anniversary, and birthday celebration within these next few days. So, if you would like to use my reference numbers and search the Scriptures associated with them, the answer to your question will become clear. Not necessarily what individual dispensationalists may believe regarding these things, but what the Bible says, and that is what is the most important, I am sure you will agree.

Forgive me for offering myself as a sounding board, without taking into consideration the demands on my time, but I had not anticipated the degree of complexity of the questions you would be asking, or the work involved in answering them, in order to be thorough, and true to the word of God rightly divided.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

HI Chris thanks for the reply and enjoy your time with your family.

I understand perfectly from Scripture that no one goes to the father unless it is through Christ. And is a very simply easy question imho

I have heard a teaching from dispensationist that you are saved with Jesus plus works in the tribulation, was really just wanting to see if you held to that teaching. in which I would highly disagree

thanks

 

[PloughBoy]

Hello @PloughBoy,

No offence caused. I would have no problem using the word, 'Congregation' or 'Assembly', 'Saint' or 'Child of God,' instead of 'Church' or 'Christian', if those words are problematic for you.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

You just do not want to surrender “completely”. Dis- regard that submission. No problem. We have “Eternity” it will come to pass “Future Indicative”. Imperative.

 

[Bethel]

I have heard a teaching from dispensationist that you are saved with Jesus plus works in the tribulation, was really just wanting to see if you held to that teaching. in which I would highly disagree

thanks

The Great Trib, is not the "Time of the gentiles"....so, you can classify those 2 as dispensations, as they are not the same.. And that is why you heard someone speak about the difference in the way God offers salvation.
Look at this.
Is there an old covenant and a New Testament? If so, those are not same.
Is there The garden of Eden where you have no Law of Moses or 10 Commandments? So, is that the same as when you do have them?
These simple observations that show you that God is changing the way He deals with man, over the course of the entire revelation of the Bible,., , are very obvious.

Here is one.
Is there a Christ on the Cross in the Old Testament?
Well there is one in the New Testament.
So, are they they the same ?
They are not.
See, God changed things, over time, and the bible keeps showing you this progressive revelation.
Saints......This is not rocket science. This is 1st Grader, obvious., if you can read.

So, "the Gift of Salvation, is not offered as "The gift of Salvation" in the Great Trib....Its only offered this way in the "time of the Gentiles".

Look at 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9. It says that Jesus is coming back to kill. To take vengeance............ So, is that the way He came the first time?
SEE THE CHANGE?
So, this is the bible, revealing more and more revelation, and so, to define these changes, the word "seasons" or "dispensations", are used, because in this way, you can rightly divide the progressive revelations.

Now, this can get CRAZY, and some have just lost their head........but simple basic dispensations, like i just showed you, are necessary to understand, or the bible will not become clear to your spiritual man.

 

[God's Truth]

thoughts

Nice and short with a lot of information getting to the point.

There is no more old covenant. If anyone wants to be saved and have a relationship with the Father, they have to go through Jesus.

 

[PloughBoy]

Note:
The New Testament is The Fulfilling or “The Old Testament”
The New Testament, Stands on “The OLD”, Without The Old. The New has “No” foundation to stand on. The Old is “The School Master”!
And it seems to me, in the form of “Tact & Diplomacy”, somebody has been playing “Hooky”.

 

[God's Truth]

Note:
The New Testament is The Fulfilling or “The Old Testament”
The New Testament, Stands on “The OLD”, Without The Old. The New has “No” foundation to stand on. The Old is “The School Master”!
And it seems to me, in the form of “Tact & Diplomacy”, somebody has been playing “Hooky”.

Right, the Old Testament is what the people in the New Testament checked on when the prophets and apostles and Jesus Christ himself spoke. Paul speaks of the Old Testament over a hundred times in his letters.
It is the school master and it is always for use for doctrine, reproof, correction, and for instruction in righteousness.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[complete]

HI Chris thanks for the reply and enjoy your time with your family.

I understand perfectly from Scripture that no one goes to the father unless it is through Christ. And is a very simply easy question imho

I have heard a teaching from dispensationist that you are saved with Jesus plus works in the tribulation, was really just wanting to see if you held to that teaching. in which I would highly disagree

thanks

Hello @Dave M,

Easy question yes, to one who lives in the age of grace, yet in relation to the age prior to and after this, the answer is more complex, for the word 'salvation' has more application than one, yes?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[PloughBoy]

Right, the Old Testament is what the people in the New Testament checked on when the prophets and apostles and Jesus Christ himself spoke. Paul speaks of the Old Testament over a hundred times in his letters.
It is the school master and it is always for use for doctrine, reproof, correction, and for instruction in righteousness.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

When the letter to Timothy was written the “Scripture” they had was “The Old Testament” the Old Testament also teaches “The WORD of GOD” but a closed Book to “The “Un-Regenerate” Person.
David, even said: “The LORD” said unto my “Lord”, sit here on my right hand until I make they “Enemies thy foot stool”.
Jesus is all in The Old Testament, The early “Congregation” was taught about “Jesus Christ” out of The “Old Testament” written. There was no New Testament writings.
“Behold I come in The Volume of The Book it is Written of Me”. There was no New Testament writings.
No one can fully understand the New Covenant writings without understanding The Old Covenant writings for it is the one That unveils The Truth meaning of The “New”. And The “New” unveils “The “Old” they are completely compatible. The veil is taken Off the “Old” and Then Unveils The “Old”! The “New” is Hidden in The “Old” The “OLD” is a “Mystery”! Natural “Israel” have never been “The True People of GOD”, GOD, is a “Spirit”!
Can No natural Person or People can ever worship “The GOD ALMIGHTY “ never has and never will! But only in; “types and shadows” of that what is to be. Even “Jerusalem” was just a “type & shadow” of The True that was to be.

No, second thought. But as design was created before the foundations of The world. Before there was a “time”, “past”Or “FUTURE” was even created, when the plan was design noting “Existed” but “GOD” there was No “Future” for GOD to look into! The Future did not exist! Even GOD himself cannot look into something do not “Exists”. He Decrees what will “Exists” and it comes to pass!

Note: The Old Testament, is The Word of GOD too! And The Word cannot pass away,

Are you still there? I wonder how many are daze, and must I go on, to explain this further! The WORD of GOD is Living and alive! And can never Die, It last “Forever”!
And one cannot “Exists” without The Other!

So many do not understand “The Law of GOD, The Law of “The ANOINTED ONE” and what “A COVENANT of GOD” is. Even, The one that was “Sealed and proclaim in “The Covenant given to “Abraham”!

It is so sad, instead of reading a common bible, design for a common people. Many refuse to study it and let “GOD” the FATHER, guide them,, throughout the years and asking HIM with strong prayers daily and nightly to teach them how to “ rightly divide The Word of TRUTH. many rather have the crumbs falling from another man’s or female’s table, year after years, Satisfied with the crumbs and left overs from another creatures plate rather than “The to dine on The “Manna” that comes from “GOD” and the only thing they had to do was, ask. “Give me thy daily bread from thy Table”. “FAITH” years of “Prayer” night, day, noontime, and in thee evening too! “Pray without ceasing” teach me LORD how to “Rightly divide your WORD and TRUTH” make it my CHIEF desires all my life! Year after years let this be my chief of all my prayers. When I wake up in the morning in my dreams, teach me. thy, Oh Lord, pass me not oh gentle saviour hear my humble cry!

And HE did not fail me, throughout the years He honor and received my prayers, He is a faithful “GOD”!
And I know many can testify “GOD” does answer our prayers!

And We know, HE is Faithful to The Task, in what we ask of HIM!

He is our Father, let us let Him teach us, His Truth

 

[God's Truth]

When the letter to Timothy was written the “Scripture” they had was “The Old Testament” the Old Testament also teaches “The WORD of GOD” but a closed Book to “The “Un-Regenerate” Person.

The letter to Timothy was scripture.
I don't know what you mean when you say, "the Old Testament also teaches “The WORD of GOD” but a closed Book to “The “Un-Regenerate” Person."
That sounds like Lutheran and Calvinism to me.
No one gets regenerated unless they obey Jesus' teachings in the New Testament.

David, even said: “The LORD” said unto my “Lord”, sit here on my right hand until I make they “Enemies thy foot stool”.
Jesus is all in The Old Testament, The early “Congregation” was taught about “Jesus Christ” out of The “Old Testament” written. There was no New Testament writings.

The new testament was being spoken and written by the apostles and their helpers.

“Behold I come in The Volume of The Book it is Written of Me”. There was no New Testament writings.
No one can fully understand the New Covenant writings without understanding The Old Covenant writings for it is the one That unveils The Truth meaning of The “New”. And The “New” unveils “The “Old” they are completely compatible. The veil is taken Off the “Old” and Then Unveils The “Old”! The “New” is Hidden in The “Old” The “OLD” is a “Mystery”! Natural “Israel” have never been “The True People of GOD”, GOD, is a “Spirit”!
Can No natural Person or People can ever worship “The GOD ALMIGHTY “ never has and never will! But only in; “types and shadows” of that what is to be. Even “Jerusalem” was just a “type & shadow” of The True that was to be.

Right. The types and shadows were about Jesus. The whole old testament is about Jesus, not yet known as Jesus. However, since John the baptizer, it is the new testament.

No, second thought. But as design was created before the foundations of The world. Before there was a “time”, “past”Or “FUTURE” was even created, when the plan was design noting “Existed” but “GOD” there was No “Future” for GOD to look into! The Future did not exist! Even GOD himself cannot look into something do not “Exists”. He Decrees what will “Exists” and it comes to pass!

Note: The Old Testament, is The Word of GOD too! And The Word cannot pass away,

Are you still there? I wonder how many are daze, and must I go on, to explain this further! The WORD of GOD is Living and alive! And can never Die, It last “Forever”!
And one cannot “Exists” without The Other!

So many do not understand “The Law of GOD, The Law of “The ANOINTED ONE” and what “A COVENANT of GOD” is. Even, The one that was “Sealed and proclaim in “The Covenant given to “Abraham”

Jesus is the Word of God, and was God, and is the one speaking in the Old Testament not yet come as Jesus.

!It is so sad, instead of reading a common bible, design for a common people. Many refuse to study it and let “GOD” the FATHER, guide them,, throughout the years and asking HIM with strong prayers daily and nightly to teach them how to “ rightly divide The Word of TRUTH. many rather have the crumbs falling from another man’s or female’s table, year after years, Satisfied with the crumbs and left overs from another creatures plate rather than “The to dine on The “Manna” that comes from “GOD” and the only thing they had to do was, ask. “Give me thy daily bread from thy Table”. “FAITH” years of “Prayer” night, day, noontime, and in thee evening too! “Pray without ceasing” teach me LORD how to “Rightly divide your WORD and TRUTH” make it my CHIEF desires all my life! Year after years let this be my chief of all my prayers. When I wake up in the morning in my dreams, teach me. thy, Oh Lord, pass me not oh gentle saviour hear my humble cry!And HE did not fail me, throughout the years He honor and received my prayers, He is a faithful “GOD”!And I know many can testify “GOD” does answer our prayers!And We know, HE is Faithful to The Task, in what we ask of HIM!He is our Father, let us let Him teach us, His Truth

The only way to eat of Jesus is to obey him. Jesus gives understanding to those who obey him. Jesus reveals himself and gives understanding to those who obey his teachings. We have to be careful to obey him and check out carefully everything we have been taught.

 

[Dave M]

Now, this can get CRAZY, and some have just lost their head........but simple basic dispensations, like i just showed you, are necessary to understand, or the bible will not become clear to your spiritual man.

interesting thanks for your comments

the way I see it we are all one flock one people of God,,, with one shepherd, would you agree?