The Error of Dispensationalism

[Dave M]

Easy question yes, to one who lives in the age of grace, yet in relation to the age prior to and after this, the answer is more complex, for the word 'salvation' has more application than one, yes?

Everyone is under grace nt ot tribulation everyone

Paul however tells us in Romans 4 that both Abraham and David were also saved by grace through faith. Salvation comes through total surrender... that is what Jesus taught. the people that come to christ in the tribulation will be saved by faith and grace through the work that Jesus did on the cross.

and Jesus led them both to heaven.......salvation for everyone in every age is though faith grace and Jesus NO exceptions is what I see in the bible. Man made doctrine always tries to take away the work that Jesus did for us and replace it with our own work..... IMHO

Think of it this way, God always always requires a sacrifice for sin, we all need that sacrifice. Jesus is that perfect sacrifice and no one gets to the father with out Jesus. The OT saints di not go directly to heaven, they went to AB until Jesus died and came down to AB and preached to them and then he brought them to heaven.



thanks

 

[God's Truth]

Paul however tells us in Romans 4 that both Abraham and David were also saved by grace through faith.

There is no such thing as being saved by grace in the Old Testament times. The people had to do the works of the law. The works of the law are the purification works. The law was NOT based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”

 

[Dave M]

There is no such thing as being saved by grace only in the Old Testament times. The people had to do the works of the law. The works of the law are the purification works. The law was NOT based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”

strongly disagree with you, the bible teaches only Jesus did the work of law, all others failed they could not keep the law, the law only worked if you kept it perfectly. No man alive was able to keep them,

NO one is justified by the law,

Galatians 3:1-29​

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— .

Galatians 2:21​

I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Galatians 3:10​

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

 

[PloughBoy]

1st. May I say this, I am not like most. I am not a Christian, and have not been under anyones ministry or bound or been taught by anyones de nomination. I have not been under the teaching of a master or anyones bible class, I have not receive anyone “regurgitation” I have read the book straight through over 100 times and the New Testament alone over 500 times straight through, even by dated, and by map reading as I read the new and old and read the “ISBE” encyclopaedia. Read, taught by “GOD” and refuse to be taught by any man what thus says the Lord, and have refuse to be a dedicated member of a “organisation” created by a mortal man! So I have not been “influence” by another man, neither have I been entice what so ever by another’s “eschatology” and I don’t have to look nothing up in a Bible, for the whole BOOK is stamp on My “Being”. So, I can tell instantly, in a blink of an eye, what comes from a man or from The Word of GOD, “Homiletically Arrange”.
You see I am not your average joe, but a “PloughBoy” without a mule. But have been “Gifted of “GOD” in such matters given, and I am not ashamed to proclaim it is true.

For in which the wisdom is available for all mankind, Just ask “GOD” to give you such a Heart, and forsake ALL!
Houses, land, mama and daddy, husband , wives, sons, daughters, and Turn your feet and eyes to “The Celestial City”! And do not look back!

Come one Come All!

I am not your regular joe! I am real!
I have not climb through a window, I came through the narrow gate and tracking on The Narrow Path and been on it since “1977” and still grow img strong, And weak, when I fell down and couldn’t walk, and couldn’t pray, I “I crawled”, when I couldn’t crawl, I paused, and laid there, “They that wait upon The LORD Shall Renew Their Strength, Sometimes it got dark, and I went through, I said I went “Through”. “The Dark Night of The Soul” ,
for many of “GOD’S” children will never experience. And I would not want my worst of“enemy” to experience.!
So in saying all of this, let us cast off all the teaching of another concerning a mortal’s school of Thought of “Eschatology”. And those thoughts “contaminating” what “GOD” has given us as His People Through HIS SON, who he didn’t send to heal this world neither did send to heal The Universe But will destroy it at The Appointed DAY!

For we are more than a mere church, For We are The “Sons of The Living “GOD”, indicative, Joint Heirs with “The ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of “The “ALMIGHTY GOD” you are more than a mere bride, You, capital “Y”, You are one of THE “Bona Fide”. “Sanctified” [One A Fide] “Sons of GOD, that will be “Manifested” through Alll Eternity and our Rule will not Have an End!

“For This is “The Inheritance of The Saints of GOD”!

For many have no Idea what this means!

If they did, they would give up the trivia arguments for the things that are Eternal.

Shalom, my true brothers and sisters in Christ and that our fellowship shall not be contaminated with the Thoughts of The mortal man nor the thoughts of “The Nominals”

 

[PloughBoy]

The letter to Timothy was scripture.
I don't know what you mean when you say, "the Old Testament also teaches “The WORD of GOD” but a closed Book to “The “Un-Regenerate” Person."
That sounds like Lutheran and Calvinism to me.
No one gets regenerated unless they obey Jesus' teachings in the New Testament.

The new testament was being spoken and written by the apostles and their helpers.

Right. The types and shadows were about Jesus. The whole old testament is about Jesus, not yet known as Jesus. However, since John the baptizer, it is the new testament.

Jesus is the Word of God, and was God, and is the one speaking in the Old Testament not yet come as Jesus.



The only way to eat of Jesus is to obey him. Jesus gives understanding to those who obey him. Jesus reveals himself and gives understanding to those who obey his teachings. We have to be careful to obey him and check out carefully everything we have been taught.

May I ask, what theological school of thought are your basis? Before I decide to engage you. For this is very important, in order to access it, whether it would be futile or not benefiting concerning both of us and the body of “Christ”.

Humbly speaking.

 

[God's Truth]

strongly disagree with you, the bible teaches only Jesus did the work of law, all others failed they could not keep the law, the law only worked if you kept it perfectly. No man alive was able to keep them,

No way, for the Bible tells us that people did obey the old law.

Just ask for the scriptures.

NO one is justified by the law,

They WERE justified by the law. That is HOW THEY WERE JUSTIFIED and called the children of God!

Galatians 3:1-29​

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— .

Once Jesus came, we have to go through him who justifies us.

Galatians 2:21​

I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

The old law did not justify as the new law does.
the new law through Jesus gives us a better justification.

 

[God's Truth]

May I ask, what theological school of thought are your basis? Before I decide to engage you. For this is very important, in order to access it, whether it would be futile or not concerning both of us and the body of “Christ”.

Humbly speaking.

I belong to no denomination. I go only by the scriptures and Jesus Christ is my only Teacher.

We can discuss together, hopefully you do.

 

[PloughBoy]

The Law of GOD in The “OT” was design so we would “Fail”! It was, is a “School Master”! For without The Law of GOD, there is no Sin.

NASB 1977
for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation.

 

[God's Truth]

The Law of GOD in The “OT” was design so we would “Fail”! It was, is a “School Master”! For without The Law of GOD, there is no Sin.

NASB 1977
for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation.

There were people who obeyed the old law blamelessly.
There are many scriptures proving that there are righteous people who obeyed.
Would you like the scriptures?

 

[Bethel]

interesting thanks for your comments

the way I see it we are all one flock one people of God,,, with one shepherd, would you agree?

Yes.

Jesus is our Savior, and Paul is our example.

When Peter was alive, the last decade of His life, He had Paul's letters..(Epistles)
Peter said, in 2 Peter, that Paul's letters, = that Peter had in his hand, are equal to the TORAH....they are "Scripture"
This is an Apostle who walked with JESUS< saying this about Paul's letters, and Paul was not one of the original 12.
Peter is telling the truth, ... as for the last 1800 yrs, Paul's letters have become most of the New Testament, other then the gospels, and The Revelation.

 

[PloughBoy]

There were people who obeyed the old law blamelessly.
There are many scriptures proving that there are righteous people who obeyed.
Would you like the scriptures?

You are in error, and I do not have to prove it, The Bible defends it self. I do not have to defend it. You are in error. And if so, then “GOD” the Father has blinded you to this Truth. So no matter what I may do or may say, HE shows “The Light” as HE pleases.

 

[God's Truth]

You are in error, and I do not have to prove it, The Bible defends it self. I do not have to defend it. You are in error. And if so, then “GOD” the Father has blinded you to this Truth. So no matter what I may do or may say, HE shows “The Light” as HE pleases.

We have to prove our beliefs with scriptures.

I am going to give you scriptures now that prove there were people who obeyed the old law:

There were people who did right and are called RIGHTEOUS.


Abel

(Abel did right)

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.


Noah

(The world was violent and wicked, but Noah was a preacher of what was right, so he found favor in the eyes of the LORD;
Noah did right, and he preached righteousness.)


Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.


Abraham

(How about Abraham? )

Genesis 26:4-5I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."

Genesis 22:18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."


Tamar

(Tamar did what was right and it made her righteous.)

Genesis 38:26 And Judah acknowledged them, and said, She hath been more righteous than I;


Job

(Job did right and it made him righteous.)

Job 1:1, 8 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God...


David

1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life--except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.


Psalm

(Psalm is full of scriptures about righteous people.)


Psalm 11:7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.


Proverbs

(Proverbs is full with teachings on the righteous.)

Proverbs 10:11 The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.


Ecclesiastes

(Ecclesiastes speaks of righteous people.)

Ecclesiastes 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.


Isaiah

Isaiah 3:10 Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.


Everyone who is righteous to God are those who do right and believe in Him.

Mary

Do you think she found favor with God because she did right? Yes.


Luke 1:30 But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid,Mary; you have found favor with God.


Zechariah and Elizabeth


Luke 1:5In the time of Herod king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah, and whose wife Elizabeth was a daughter of Aaron. 6They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and decrees of the Lord.


Cornelius

(Cornelius the first Gentiles to be saved and his whole household.)

Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people.

There were righteous people who pleased God.
There are false teachers who preach it wrong, they misunderstand Paul.

 

[Dave M]

There were people who obeyed the old law blamelessly.
There are many scriptures proving that there are righteous people who obeyed.
Would you like the scriptures?

John 7 - 19 in Jesus own words

Yet non of you keep the law !!

Jesus was the only person to ever keep the law, that is why and how he fufiled the law. THe Law was impossible to keep and was never meant to save anyone

 

[PloughBoy]

You used a “pronoun” when I clearly explain with kindness, “ tact & Diplomacy” and you have “ ignore” me like I don’t exists.

“We have to prove our beliefs with scriptures”

When I read the beginning of this statement, I stop and read no more.

Sayonara

 

[God's Truth]

John 7 - 19 in Jesus own words

Yet non of you keep the law !!

Jesus was the only person to ever keep the law, that is why and how he fufiled the law. THe Law was impossible to keep and was never meant to save anyone

People kept the law. What are you talking about? Jesus fulfilled the law means the law was about him...he is the lamb, and the circumcision, and the high priest, and all the special days were about him, and he is the diet one must adhere to, and the external washings, and the temple.

 

[God's Truth]

You used a “pronoun” when I clearly explain with kindness, “ tact & Diplomacy” and you have “ ignore” me like I don’t exists.

“We have to prove our beliefs with scriptures”

When I read the beginning of this statement, I stop and read no more.

Sayonara

Looks like you would rather speak to yourself then.

 

[PloughBoy]

It is sad, but understandable when we do not understand how to read “The Bible Text” even sadder when one proceeds to instruct others, Which was one of The Stronger arguments of Those who protested the “Movement” of the translating “The Original Copied Manuscript” into the common man’s language. And by translating it cost many “Christian men, women and children where killed by the church for quoting the scripture and mis-interpreting it. Whole households where murder even hang, burn alive, thrown in hot boiling oil, for mis- quoting and quoting a translation of The Original Copied Manuscript in their own common man’s language.

And how cheaply some people treat, The Translated Text of The “Canon of Scripture” even today, when so many have lost their lives in violent deaths that those of today may hold it , in Their very Hands.

 

[God's Truth]

It is sad, but understandable when we do not understand how to read “The Bible Text” even sadder when one proceeds to instruct others, Which was one of The Stronger arguments of Those who protested the “Movement” of the translating “The Original Copied Manuscript” into the common man’s language. And by translating it cost many “Christian men, women and children where killed by the church for quoting the scripture and mis-interpreting it. Whole households where murder even hang, burn alive, thrown in hot boiling oil, for mis- quoting and quoting a translation of The Original Copied Manuscript in their own common man’s language.

And how cheaply some people treat, The Translated Text of The “Canon of Scripture” even today, when so many have lost their lives in violent deaths that those of today may hold it , in Their very Hands.

More talking to yourself? Let me know when you want to talk to me, the only person who is here wanting to discuss with you.

 

[Dave M]

People kept the law. What are you talking about? Jesus fulfilled the law

not one person in the bible was able to keep the law, until Jesus came and he was the one who fufilled the law. The law was never meant to be kept, it was a impossible task. That is what Jesus did he was the only person ever to keep the law

James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all".

Galatians 3:21​

Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

 

[PloughBoy]

More talking to yourself? Let me know when you want to talk to me, the only person who is here wanting to discuss with you.

I am under a command. I don’t care if the whole wide world do not hear a word I say, I don’t care! I really don’t . Because this world does not belong to me! I am nothing more than a mere “Mailman” carrying The Mail by word of mouth and penmanship of fingers! “MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIN”.

How do like that “Fruit”?