The Failure of Atheism to Account for Existence
- Thread starter Chad
- Start date
- Status
Quantrill
Active
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 869
With all due respect, if you reason one into the faith, he can be reasoned out. Which is probably what has happened to Vincent.
The atheist ranks are full of those who believe they were once Christian but have now seen the light as 'reason' has showed them the correct path. They like to make a show that they were once Christian but have turned away from that. They never were. It sounds good for their argument.
If they don't come by simple faith,....they don't come.
Quantrill
Vincent
Member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2016
- Messages
- 161
What do you mean by heart?
Curtis
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2015
- Messages
- 4,471
The "heart" of man is his "spirit". The Lord told Adam that the day he disobeyed, and ate from the tree that was forbidden he would die. Adam and Eve died that day spiritually, not physically. They both lived for hundreds of years until physical death. Their "spirit" (heart) which they used to fellowship with was lost that ability.
Man was now left to his five physical senses to discover spiritual things which were not designed to operate in the spiritual realm. The born again man receives a new spirit (heart) that thas the same 5 kinds of senses as the flesh but designed to live in the spiritual world where God exists. These spiritual senses operate by faith which gives man the evidence that God exists.
Vincent
Member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2016
- Messages
- 161
I never said this. We can only believe in what we are convinced of through good or bad reasons.
I don't believe the moon is not made of cheese because I hope that it isn't. That would be biblical faith. You believe in god because you hope for god to exist that is biblical faith, being confident in what you hope for. I have a mountain of evidence that the moon is not made of cheese. I can be 99.99% certain that it isn't. That is not the same as your belief in god. I believe based on good reasons I don't think that your reasons are good reasons.
Not the way your bible defines faith. Not being 100% certain of something, which is impossible, is not the same thing as believing on biblical faith.
I was a christian, your denying that fact with no evidence is another example of Christians telling non believers what they believe or believed.
I know you have to. I was a believer in Christ and the gospel. You can tell me you know better but that won't change the fact that I was.
amadeus2
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2008
- Messages
- 4,456
Sorry! My error.
According to what you can see and understand that's OK, but according to what I can see and understand, my belief in God is at 100%. That belief for me is the most important thing in my day to day life... My connection with God real and it consists of daily communication which I will not explain to you because it would not help you.
Many of the details of my belief are less certain because I know some of them are likely off the mark but not that far off. This off the mark thing is the reason for the many denominations and doctrinal differences. But that is for another discussion.
You may be familiar with what you call "your Bible" but I know you are not familiar with my God.
I did not deny that you were a Christian. I simply said, "I wonder", which I certainly do, but without a revelation about you from God, which I have not received, I don't really know what you had. My speculation in that respect could be in error.
Vincent
Member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2016
- Messages
- 161
Not at all.
Now therefore stand still, that I may reason with you before the LORD of all the righteous acts of the LORD, which He did to you and to your fathers.
1Samuel 12:7
Greetings Quantrill,
thank you.
Did the 'Prodigal Son" re-reason at one point? I am not suggesting Member Vincent is as the prodigal was, but merely pointing to the use of ones reasoning, although i heard loud and clear what you have shared with me.
I am also reminded of the LORD speaking to Job, "Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD..." and also the Apostle Paul;
As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ,” he declared.…
Acts 17:2-3
and
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
Acts 24:25
Bless you ....><>
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD... Isaiah 1:18
1Samuel 12:7
Greetings Quantrill,
thank you.
Did the 'Prodigal Son" re-reason at one point? I am not suggesting Member Vincent is as the prodigal was, but merely pointing to the use of ones reasoning, although i heard loud and clear what you have shared with me.
I am also reminded of the LORD speaking to Job, "Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD..." and also the Apostle Paul;
As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ,” he declared.…
Acts 17:2-3
and
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
Acts 24:25
Bless you ....><>
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD... Isaiah 1:18
Quantrill
Active
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 869
All the verses you give are to a God fearing Bible believing people. Thus Paul could reason with these out of the Scriptures.
There is a reasoning that can take place between God and the believer, or between two believers, or even between the believer and the non-believer who makes a show of being a believer, about the things of God. In all of these the Word of God, be it written or revealed, is the basis.
Even to the pagans in Athens who Paul preached Christ to, they had a belief in God. (Acts 17:23). Paul did not have to reason to them concerning the 'existence' of God. And once Paul was done with his declaration of Jesus Christ, (Acts 17:31), then he left it. Some rejected. Some were interested. Some believed. And Paul departed. (Acts 17:31-34)
I don't mind telling non-believers about Jesus Christ and what I believe about Him. That is a missionary endeavor. I don't mind arguing with them when they come against my faith in Jesus Christ. These are not the same as Vincent.
Vincent has set himself up as a former 'believer', which is a lie. And due to a lack of evidence, or 'reason' on his part, he has left the Christians faith. He now doubts the existence of God, and certainly rejects Jesus Christ as The Son of God and Saviour and the Bible as the Word of God. So now if you as a Christian just 'prove' to him the existence of God, he will believe it. It is an effort in futility. There will never be enough evidence for one like this.
But, let's say you did provide sufficient evidence for Vincent to 'come back', according to his scenario. Did he come by simple faith in Christ? Or did he come because you exercised good reasoning and apologetic skills that forced him to say yes. And what will happen when he meets another atheist who is more educated and more versed in the ways of defeating Christian arguments and who blows your arguments and reasoning out of the water? I tell you what will happen. He will leave Christianity again, for reason is why he came the first time.
Atheists have a certain statement they like to say about we who are believers. You can't reason with someone who has come to their conclusions based solely on faith. And, they are right. The flip side of that is equally true. You can't reason a believer out of his faith based solely on reason, for he didn't obtain his faith by reason.
Quantrill
Greetings again Quantrill,
I suppose i was thinking of all sorts of wonderful examples we have from Scripture to help us see the evidence before our very eyes, daily
for example, from MacLaren's Expositions:
An obscure tribe of Egyptian slaves plunges into the desert to hide from pursuit, and emerges, after forty years, with a code gathered into ‘ten words,’ so brief, so complete, so intertwining morality and religion, so free from local or national peculiarities, so close fitting to fundamental duties, that it is to-day, after more than three thousand years, authoritative in the most enlightened peoples. The voice that spoke from Sinai reverberates in all lands. The Old World had other lawgivers who professed to formulate their precepts by divine inspiration: they are all fallen silent. But this voice, like the trumpet on that day, waxes louder and louder as the years roll. Whose voice was it? The only answer explaining the supreme purity of the commandments, and their immortal freshness, is found in the first sentence of this paragraph, ‘God spake all these words.’
because, as you know, the foundation of the democracy's where justice is the preferred choice in countries where a lot of atheists live or hide, is built upon such things.
Same as things like loosening the bands of Orion and other wonderful things we can and have and will learn
Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Job 38:31
not to mention those words Jesus gave, like turn the other cheek and no greater love has a man than to lay down his life for a friend. And of course that strange, oh so strange word, forgive.... even as your Father in Heaven has forgven you.
Or if you even look at a woman with a little perv in your heart, you have committed adultery.
Timeless and so amazingly clear truths to live by and i am sure even Mr Vincent would approve of such things. (I imagine his present atheist imagination would accept a little Biblical standards and commands when it comes to faithfulness of his wife or if he has children, them giving him all due honour as their dad.) Then there is things like not bearing false witness.... etc etc.
Remember Peace Child?
It was a 'great achievement' and worthy of honour to lure your neighbour in to dinner and then eat him! Sort of thing folks do when they don't have Biblical moral standards and therefore do not obey the LORD.
Maybe we could get sacrificing children to the fire? Oh of course we wouldn't do that. We are civilized. On what?
Have you ever read the book, 'To those about to die, we salute you'. Excellent (but very disturbing) little book. Goes into enough detail about the mentality of the people of Rome and surrounds, under Roman rule. A fairly 'civilized' nation. Acheived a great deal that the world would and does see as advancements. The Government was run out of funds and the people were going hungry, roads and hospitals and services were falling apart [my edition to bring us to modern times] and after some games that were put on, some smart person realised that the games were helping the people 'stay happy', instead of rebelling and civil war etc. {used to be horse races - but they saw that when there were accidents, people got excited - sounds a bit like many today?]
Then they realised bit by bit that a little blood was always appreciated by the mobs. From there, a bit of gruesome and a little sadism, add a little beastiality and bingo, the crowds were able to come regularly and get contented and actually give honour and cheers to the emperor even though he was jilting them. Well, people getting killed needed people to kill. Slaves and those who were beggars, were easy to come by. So were prisoners of wars that the Romans were bent on having and at that stage were getting more than they could cope with financially. But what really turned the crowds on was seeing Christians getting killed. They were different. Everyone loved to see how long they would stay faithful and bold in the face of horrendous acts against them.
Then some bright spark figured that using Christians soaked in oil and fat, set on fire to light the stadium, was the greatest highlight to the show.... and, sadly, it was.
A little history for y'all. Get it?
So, anyway, Quantrill, thank you for your concern and advice.
Bless you ....><>
I suppose i was thinking of all sorts of wonderful examples we have from Scripture to help us see the evidence before our very eyes, daily
for example, from MacLaren's Expositions:
An obscure tribe of Egyptian slaves plunges into the desert to hide from pursuit, and emerges, after forty years, with a code gathered into ‘ten words,’ so brief, so complete, so intertwining morality and religion, so free from local or national peculiarities, so close fitting to fundamental duties, that it is to-day, after more than three thousand years, authoritative in the most enlightened peoples. The voice that spoke from Sinai reverberates in all lands. The Old World had other lawgivers who professed to formulate their precepts by divine inspiration: they are all fallen silent. But this voice, like the trumpet on that day, waxes louder and louder as the years roll. Whose voice was it? The only answer explaining the supreme purity of the commandments, and their immortal freshness, is found in the first sentence of this paragraph, ‘God spake all these words.’
because, as you know, the foundation of the democracy's where justice is the preferred choice in countries where a lot of atheists live or hide, is built upon such things.
Same as things like loosening the bands of Orion and other wonderful things we can and have and will learn
Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Job 38:31
not to mention those words Jesus gave, like turn the other cheek and no greater love has a man than to lay down his life for a friend. And of course that strange, oh so strange word, forgive.... even as your Father in Heaven has forgven you.
Or if you even look at a woman with a little perv in your heart, you have committed adultery.
Timeless and so amazingly clear truths to live by and i am sure even Mr Vincent would approve of such things. (I imagine his present atheist imagination would accept a little Biblical standards and commands when it comes to faithfulness of his wife or if he has children, them giving him all due honour as their dad.) Then there is things like not bearing false witness.... etc etc.
Remember Peace Child?
It was a 'great achievement' and worthy of honour to lure your neighbour in to dinner and then eat him! Sort of thing folks do when they don't have Biblical moral standards and therefore do not obey the LORD.
Maybe we could get sacrificing children to the fire? Oh of course we wouldn't do that. We are civilized. On what?
Have you ever read the book, 'To those about to die, we salute you'. Excellent (but very disturbing) little book. Goes into enough detail about the mentality of the people of Rome and surrounds, under Roman rule. A fairly 'civilized' nation. Acheived a great deal that the world would and does see as advancements. The Government was run out of funds and the people were going hungry, roads and hospitals and services were falling apart [my edition to bring us to modern times] and after some games that were put on, some smart person realised that the games were helping the people 'stay happy', instead of rebelling and civil war etc. {used to be horse races - but they saw that when there were accidents, people got excited - sounds a bit like many today?]
Then they realised bit by bit that a little blood was always appreciated by the mobs. From there, a bit of gruesome and a little sadism, add a little beastiality and bingo, the crowds were able to come regularly and get contented and actually give honour and cheers to the emperor even though he was jilting them. Well, people getting killed needed people to kill. Slaves and those who were beggars, were easy to come by. So were prisoners of wars that the Romans were bent on having and at that stage were getting more than they could cope with financially. But what really turned the crowds on was seeing Christians getting killed. They were different. Everyone loved to see how long they would stay faithful and bold in the face of horrendous acts against them.
Then some bright spark figured that using Christians soaked in oil and fat, set on fire to light the stadium, was the greatest highlight to the show.... and, sadly, it was.
A little history for y'all. Get it?
So, anyway, Quantrill, thank you for your concern and advice.
Bless you ....><>
Brother-Paul
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2015
- Messages
- 4,002
The so called 'Christian World' is full of people who thing they are Christians.
Wrongful preaching is partly to blame, listening to the world not the Word of God is partly to blame, not being born-again is a lot to blame.
Following some denominations teaching can also be to blame, but sadly many ministers are Not Born Again.
We hear of back sliding, but this is usually because people who thought they were Christians were never Christians. I appreciate the devil comes to steal that which God has given us, but God gives sunshine and rain for the saved and the lost, God blesses all because He loves all.
I remember hearing of one vicar, who packed in 'his job' because he had run out of things to say. How sad that is that he was in 'the job' to start with.
But there are many ministers who are academic, who got 'the job' because they were qualified and were good speakers, they showed a caring nature.
If a person is Not Born-Again, Jesus is not in there heart. True Christians, born again Christians, know Jesus is in their hearts, He lives in them and they live in Christ. Illnessness can come, especially late in life, memory can reduce later in life, but if Jesus is truly in our hearts, we are saved.
So many people read verses or quote verses out of context, it is also possible to quote verses in context that do not tell the full story, therefore misguide the listener.
Romans 10:13 (NKJV)
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
People say I called on the Lord so I am saved. Are they? How did they call on the Lord?
Acts 16:31 (NKJV)
31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Many will say, I believe, I go to church, etc. But do they really believe or do they believe they believe.
Then we have probably the most know scripture verse in the New Testament, once called the Gospel in miniature.
John 3:16 (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
So often a verse can mislead, not always but so often they can. All of the verses stated tell us if we call or believe we are saved! On there own no wonder people think they are saved, they are not preached correctly, they are not preached in full. ALL scripture is God breathed and God tells us we must search ALL the scriptures for the Truth. Thanks be to God.
To explain what I am saying here, let us look at John 3:1-21 which our Lord told us and not only explains but brings all the verses mention and other similar ones together, In Truth.
John 3:1-21 (NKJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
(MOST ASSUREDLY Jesus says, if we are NOT Born Again we CANNOT SEE the Kingdom of Heaven - the other verses did not say this!)
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
(MOST ASSUREDLY Jesus says, we are to be born of Spirit and Water, or we are Not Born-Again, we CANNOT ENTER the Kingdom of Heaven)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
(Do not marvel, we should not be surprised Jesus says, WE MUST BE BORN-AGAIN. Three times in as many verses He makes this point!)
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
(Reading these verses on there own does not reveal the Truth in The Word to us, we are meant to read and understand all scripture, we must be Born-Again)
18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
(Jesus brings everything together, He tells us the Good-News, He tells us we MUST BE Born Again, He tells us why, then He explains the alternative)
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
So why does it say if we believe in Jesus or call on Jesus we will be saved in other verses like Acts ands Romans, but here says we must be Born-Again or we will NOT see or will NOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven?
An example of this would be, when a parent teaches a child, they first explain in full then afterwards reduce the statement as the full explanation is not needed. It is the same at work, our boss sees we are adequately trained to do the job they expect of us, explaining in more detail initially, but later doesn't need to give a full explanation.
Reading John 3:1-21 Jesus tells us 3 times, we Must be Born-again, we must be born of spirit and water, He tells us why, For God so loved the world, that Jesus had to die for our sins, he includes the options for us leaving us to choose. We are born again or we are not, we are saved or we are not.
But it is important that we understand Scripture; we must repent, we must be baptised of spirit and water, we must call on the Name of the Lord, we are to believe in the Lord, we are to be (MUST BE) born again, we are to take up our cross daily and follow Jesus and His teaching.
It is easy to see why so many think they are Christians, they don't really know what scripture says. We all have the same responsibility Jesus gave us, to make sure people know the Truth.
Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV)
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
Wrongful preaching is partly to blame, listening to the world not the Word of God is partly to blame, not being born-again is a lot to blame.
Following some denominations teaching can also be to blame, but sadly many ministers are Not Born Again.
We hear of back sliding, but this is usually because people who thought they were Christians were never Christians. I appreciate the devil comes to steal that which God has given us, but God gives sunshine and rain for the saved and the lost, God blesses all because He loves all.
I remember hearing of one vicar, who packed in 'his job' because he had run out of things to say. How sad that is that he was in 'the job' to start with.
But there are many ministers who are academic, who got 'the job' because they were qualified and were good speakers, they showed a caring nature.
If a person is Not Born-Again, Jesus is not in there heart. True Christians, born again Christians, know Jesus is in their hearts, He lives in them and they live in Christ. Illnessness can come, especially late in life, memory can reduce later in life, but if Jesus is truly in our hearts, we are saved.
So many people read verses or quote verses out of context, it is also possible to quote verses in context that do not tell the full story, therefore misguide the listener.
Romans 10:13 (NKJV)
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
People say I called on the Lord so I am saved. Are they? How did they call on the Lord?
Acts 16:31 (NKJV)
31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Many will say, I believe, I go to church, etc. But do they really believe or do they believe they believe.
Then we have probably the most know scripture verse in the New Testament, once called the Gospel in miniature.
John 3:16 (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
So often a verse can mislead, not always but so often they can. All of the verses stated tell us if we call or believe we are saved! On there own no wonder people think they are saved, they are not preached correctly, they are not preached in full. ALL scripture is God breathed and God tells us we must search ALL the scriptures for the Truth. Thanks be to God.
To explain what I am saying here, let us look at John 3:1-21 which our Lord told us and not only explains but brings all the verses mention and other similar ones together, In Truth.
John 3:1-21 (NKJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
(MOST ASSUREDLY Jesus says, if we are NOT Born Again we CANNOT SEE the Kingdom of Heaven - the other verses did not say this!)
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
(MOST ASSUREDLY Jesus says, we are to be born of Spirit and Water, or we are Not Born-Again, we CANNOT ENTER the Kingdom of Heaven)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
(Do not marvel, we should not be surprised Jesus says, WE MUST BE BORN-AGAIN. Three times in as many verses He makes this point!)
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
(Reading these verses on there own does not reveal the Truth in The Word to us, we are meant to read and understand all scripture, we must be Born-Again)
18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
(Jesus brings everything together, He tells us the Good-News, He tells us we MUST BE Born Again, He tells us why, then He explains the alternative)
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
So why does it say if we believe in Jesus or call on Jesus we will be saved in other verses like Acts ands Romans, but here says we must be Born-Again or we will NOT see or will NOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven?
An example of this would be, when a parent teaches a child, they first explain in full then afterwards reduce the statement as the full explanation is not needed. It is the same at work, our boss sees we are adequately trained to do the job they expect of us, explaining in more detail initially, but later doesn't need to give a full explanation.
Reading John 3:1-21 Jesus tells us 3 times, we Must be Born-again, we must be born of spirit and water, He tells us why, For God so loved the world, that Jesus had to die for our sins, he includes the options for us leaving us to choose. We are born again or we are not, we are saved or we are not.
But it is important that we understand Scripture; we must repent, we must be baptised of spirit and water, we must call on the Name of the Lord, we are to believe in the Lord, we are to be (MUST BE) born again, we are to take up our cross daily and follow Jesus and His teaching.
It is easy to see why so many think they are Christians, they don't really know what scripture says. We all have the same responsibility Jesus gave us, to make sure people know the Truth.
Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV)
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
Quantrill
Active
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 869
@Br. Bear
Yes, all that you describe speaks to me and is evidence for me and other believers. There is a mountain of evidence for we who believe. But the atheist will not see it that way. Because he doubts God's existence, then no amount of evidence can prove God to him.
The doctor tells you a Christian loved one has got a brain tumor and has three days to live. You and others pray for this one. Two days later the brain tumor is gone. It was there in the X-ray before. But now in the X-ray, it is gone. You and I give glory to God for healing of this one. What do you think the atheist will do? Will he fall down and accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour? Not hardly. He will say there is some medical explanation, or someone made a mistake somewhere. This does not prove there is any so called 'god'.
I do remember 'Peace Child' of many years ago. Some of either it or another of Don Richardson's books were hard back then for me to read. In one of the books of his the father took his own daughter and threw her over a cliff to some god. I had just had a daughter born, and literally set the book aside. I'm not sure I ever finished it.
Yes, and you're quite welcome.
Quantrill
Yes, all that you describe speaks to me and is evidence for me and other believers. There is a mountain of evidence for we who believe. But the atheist will not see it that way. Because he doubts God's existence, then no amount of evidence can prove God to him.
The doctor tells you a Christian loved one has got a brain tumor and has three days to live. You and others pray for this one. Two days later the brain tumor is gone. It was there in the X-ray before. But now in the X-ray, it is gone. You and I give glory to God for healing of this one. What do you think the atheist will do? Will he fall down and accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour? Not hardly. He will say there is some medical explanation, or someone made a mistake somewhere. This does not prove there is any so called 'god'.
I do remember 'Peace Child' of many years ago. Some of either it or another of Don Richardson's books were hard back then for me to read. In one of the books of his the father took his own daughter and threw her over a cliff to some god. I had just had a daughter born, and literally set the book aside. I'm not sure I ever finished it.
Yes, and you're quite welcome.
Quantrill
Brother-Paul
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2015
- Messages
- 4,002
So true brother
There has to be a reason man says, the scientists will know LOL
Image the world after the Rapture, we will not be here to see what happens but, it is easy to imagine.
Where have all these people gone, where could they have disappeared to.
The Rapture, no they say don't talk silly.
Aliens have taken them :grin:
Blessings
Vincent
Member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2016
- Messages
- 161
Another Christian telling another what they believed or believe. You cannot possible know what I believed and when, and simple faith is not a good pathway to find truth. I can believe in any god by simple faith.
Vincent
Member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2016
- Messages
- 161
Can you demonstrate we have a spirit?
Curtis
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2015
- Messages
- 4,471
Have you ever noticed the personality of a person whose spirit has left their body? They don't talk much.
Jas 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
Brother-Paul
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2015
- Messages
- 4,002
Jesus sums up the issue of what a none believer, lost soul sees, and what a born again saved believer sees.
The spirit reveals The Truth to a believer, but does not reveal it to the none believer, because they belong to satan, they do not belong to God.
The none believer is spiritual discerned, because of their sins, they are veiled from the Truth, the Truth is hidden from them.
They cannot see it, they will not see it, they cannot understand it, they will not understand it, unless they are born-again.
John 3:3 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
The spirit reveals The Truth to a believer, but does not reveal it to the none believer, because they belong to satan, they do not belong to God.
The none believer is spiritual discerned, because of their sins, they are veiled from the Truth, the Truth is hidden from them.
They cannot see it, they will not see it, they cannot understand it, they will not understand it, unless they are born-again.
John 3:3 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Greetings again Quantrill,
I forgot to mention the many, many advancements and discoveries that have helped countless people especially in democratic free world countries that have 'been given to us' by Jews.
You've got a population about 0.2% of the worlds population, with more scientific, medicinal, technological, etc etc contributions than all other people groups, with people enjoying these inventions and discoveries daily in day to day as well as in health and scientific research, defence ,etc etc - all by a small bunch of people who have been scattered around the world for who knows how long, surviving continual attempts of genocide, mass purgings and the only people group to survive without a home land country for far longer than any other, a small people group, who have also as their God, the One and same as the Bible writes of, and all the great and wonderful moral standards introduced around the world, etc etc etc.... and yet, some think it intelligent and reasonable to reject the God of the Jews and their Book?
Take a quick look at a couple of lists here:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
and they are only the tip of the iceberg.
Drip Irrigation, the Pager, the Walkie-talkie, Refrigerated Railroad Car, High-vacuum Electron Tubes, the Incandescent Lamp, Kodachrome Film, the Blimp, the Adding Machine, Stainless Steel, Tapered Roller Bearings. Google, the Wire Transmission Facsimilie (FAX) , the Microphone, the Gramophone, the Microprocessing Chip, Optical Fiber Cable, Laser, Cellular Technology, Streptomycin, the Videotape Recorder, Prozac, Valium, Insulin, The Polio Vaccine, Radiation, Chemotherapy, the Artificial Kidney Dialysis machine, the Defibrillator, the Cardiac Pacemaker, Vaccination against the deadly “Hepatitis B” virus, the Vaccinating Needle, Laser Technology, Sound Movies, Videotape, Color Television, Instant Photography, Holography, Jeans, Lipstick, the Ballpoint Pen, Instant Coffee, Television Remote Control, Traffic Lights, Scotchguard, the Flexistraw.,... etc etc etc etc etc.....
Someone please tell me how and why i should ignore the fact that these same people have the God of the Bible as their God and that it is only through the holding on to the Scriptures that they have survived (outside of God's hand upon them, which is part of the Scriptures, of course - a big part).
Even a lot of the 'great' men who the atheists and non believers admire and hold in great esteem are Jews.
At least 178 Jews have been awarded the Nobel Prize, accounting for 23% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2008 and counting.... out of 0.2% of the population.
Man alive!
But i suppose what gets me the most is that the majority of professing atheists make full use of the God of the Bible and His People (including the countless Christians who have done so much good for and to and in this world) while going about spouting rot against any evidence and/or trying to con-vince the masses that Christianity is a lie or a delusion!
I wonder how many would be so outspoken against the Lord if all the great contributions that they enjoy daily were removed?
Anyways, thanks for replying,
Godspeed and bless you ....><>
I forgot to mention the many, many advancements and discoveries that have helped countless people especially in democratic free world countries that have 'been given to us' by Jews.
You've got a population about 0.2% of the worlds population, with more scientific, medicinal, technological, etc etc contributions than all other people groups, with people enjoying these inventions and discoveries daily in day to day as well as in health and scientific research, defence ,etc etc - all by a small bunch of people who have been scattered around the world for who knows how long, surviving continual attempts of genocide, mass purgings and the only people group to survive without a home land country for far longer than any other, a small people group, who have also as their God, the One and same as the Bible writes of, and all the great and wonderful moral standards introduced around the world, etc etc etc.... and yet, some think it intelligent and reasonable to reject the God of the Jews and their Book?
Take a quick look at a couple of lists here:
Category:Jewish scientists - Wikipedia
Category:Jewish physicists - Wikipedia
List of Israeli inventions and discoveries - Wikipedia
and they are only the tip of the iceberg.
Drip Irrigation, the Pager, the Walkie-talkie, Refrigerated Railroad Car, High-vacuum Electron Tubes, the Incandescent Lamp, Kodachrome Film, the Blimp, the Adding Machine, Stainless Steel, Tapered Roller Bearings. Google, the Wire Transmission Facsimilie (FAX) , the Microphone, the Gramophone, the Microprocessing Chip, Optical Fiber Cable, Laser, Cellular Technology, Streptomycin, the Videotape Recorder, Prozac, Valium, Insulin, The Polio Vaccine, Radiation, Chemotherapy, the Artificial Kidney Dialysis machine, the Defibrillator, the Cardiac Pacemaker, Vaccination against the deadly “Hepatitis B” virus, the Vaccinating Needle, Laser Technology, Sound Movies, Videotape, Color Television, Instant Photography, Holography, Jeans, Lipstick, the Ballpoint Pen, Instant Coffee, Television Remote Control, Traffic Lights, Scotchguard, the Flexistraw.,... etc etc etc etc etc.....
Someone please tell me how and why i should ignore the fact that these same people have the God of the Bible as their God and that it is only through the holding on to the Scriptures that they have survived (outside of God's hand upon them, which is part of the Scriptures, of course - a big part).
Even a lot of the 'great' men who the atheists and non believers admire and hold in great esteem are Jews.
At least 178 Jews have been awarded the Nobel Prize, accounting for 23% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2008 and counting.... out of 0.2% of the population.
Man alive!
But i suppose what gets me the most is that the majority of professing atheists make full use of the God of the Bible and His People (including the countless Christians who have done so much good for and to and in this world) while going about spouting rot against any evidence and/or trying to con-vince the masses that Christianity is a lie or a delusion!
I wonder how many would be so outspoken against the Lord if all the great contributions that they enjoy daily were removed?
Anyways, thanks for replying,
Godspeed and bless you ....><>
Quantrill
Active
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 869
Simple faith is the only way to come to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. When I say 'simple' I am saying by faith alone. When I say 'simple' I am implying real faith. In other words, you come because you really do believe.
All that is required is faith....but that is required.
Do you believe in any other gods? You can 'say' you believe, but I am asking do you really believe it?
Yes, I can tell you what you believed and what you didn't by your very experience as an atheist now. By your very ignorance of what 'faith' is.
Quantrill
..... and this says it probably better.....
“The Jews started it all – and by "it" I mean so many of the things we care about, the underlying values that make all of us, Jew and gentile, believer and atheist, tick. Without the Jews, we would see the world through different eyes, hear with different ears, even feel with different feelings. And we would set a different course for our lives… Their worldview has become so much a part of us that at this point it might as well have been written into our cells as a genetic code.”
--- Thomas Cahill, The Gifts of the Jews
The number of fundamental ideas and values the Jewish People have given to the world is truly remarkable. And it’s also remarkable how most people don’t realize this.
We simply forget that these concepts and ideals were once not the way of the world. In fact, they were not only revolutionary but often at complete odds with conventional wisdom of the times. As Paul Johnson wrote in The History of the Jews, “All the great conceptual discoveries of the intellect seem obvious and inescapable once they have been revealed, but it requires a special genius to formulate them for the first time. The Jews had this gift.”
1. Sabbath Day: The Romans ridiculed the Jews for their idleness but we have none but the Jews to thank for our weekend. Until the Jewish invention of Sabbath, every day, every month, every year was the same. We introduced the concept of taking out time to focus on the higher things in life and enjoying being and not just doing. Christians adapted the Jewish Shabbat to Sunday in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.1
2. Peace on Earth: In a world that revered the warrior above all others, survival of the fittest was the highest value. If you could get it, you took it. The cost in human life was irrelevant. Judaism introduced the altruistic concept that peace amongst men was preferable to my tribe’s enrichment.
As the prophet Isaiah wrote, “The wolf will live with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the goat; the calf and young lion and fatling will be together, and a little child will lead them” (11:6).
And “They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore” (2:4).
3. Universal Literacy and Education: In a world where literacy was a luxury enjoyed by the vast minority, the People of the Book taught that the pursuit of wisdom and learning was the highest pursuit and the right and obligation of every child and adult. No Jewish community existed without a school. Even the Greeks and Romans came nowhere near creating a written culture, 2 and the medieval world saw even greater drops in literacy. The Church, ancient Greece and the United States not only discouraged literacy for some (e.g. Blacks, slaves, non-clergy), but it took until 1918 for every US state to require students to complete elementary school. 3 It took India until 2009 to adopt what the Jewish nation has been practicing for 3,500 years.
4. Sabbatical Year: The idea for academics and some professionals (20% of UK companies now have a career break policy, and many more joining the trend! 4) to take a year off every seven years to focus on academic advancement, comes directly from the Torah. Judaism requires every farmer to take the entire seventh year off from work to focus on studying, self-improvement and inspiration. One can imagine the impact of that intellectual focus on the entire nation.
5. Justice for All: In a world where women, children, the poor, immigrants and other vulnerable members of society were systematically abused, the Jewish legal system was the first to protect the rights of the underdog and the helpless. As the Torah states, “You shall not wrong or oppress a foreigner, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. You shall not abuse the widow or orphan. If you do abuse them, when they cry out to me, I will surely heed their cry” (Exodus 22:21-23).
Jewish law ensured that every man and woman has the right to a fair trial, is innocent before proven guilty, and allows for no prejudice towards the rich or powerful.
6. Monotheism: Judaism revolutionized the concept of God; from a belief in multiple deities and idols that require our sacrifice (even humans), are created in the image of Man and can be bribed and manipulated, to recognizing the One Infinite, loving, altruistic Creator who is the unifying source of the entire universe, who needs nothing from mankind, and is equally available to every human being.
7. Infinite Value of Every Human Life: In a world of human sacrifice, murder of children (particularly baby girls), and wanton war and killing to further material gains, Judaism taught that every life is holy, created in the image of God, and of infinite value – even the old, the mentally or physically handicapped and the sick. If you think that is obvious, consider the practice of human sacrifice that was central to most South American civilizations until the Spanish Christians conquered them just 500 years ago.
8. The Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness: While the founding fathers of America may have found “these truths to be self-evident”, in fact it was far from self-evident unless you were highly influenced by Jewish values (otherwise the Declaration of Independence in 1776 would not have been so revolutionary!). Many societies up to modern times have sought to limit individuality in the name of service to the state or religion or feudal lord (Communism, Nazism, many religions and all totalitarian regimes). But 3,000 years before 1776, Judaism introduced to the world that every human has the right, and obligation, to aspire to reaching his/her unique goals, personal fulfilment and potential.
9. Limited Governmental Powers: It took until the Magna Carta in medieval England for the first small limitations on the power of the ruler to be instituted. Until then despots of all kinds could and would take advantage of their citizens monetarily, militarily and judicially for their own gain. The king was omnipotent. The Torah was the first system to place limits on the powers of the monarch. His powers were overseen by an independent judicial branch of government (Sanhedrin/Supreme Court), thousands of years before the rest of the world was ready to adopt these ideas. And the Jewish king carried with him a Torah scroll, reminding him that he too is subjugated to all of its laws.
10. Tzedaka and Tikkun Olam: In a world where the idea of giving away one’s property to others was seen as both bizarre and foolhardy, Judaism taught that we are obligated to donate 10-20% (tithe) of what we earn to make the world a better place. Judaism was trend-setting by millennium when it required us to lend money to our fellow man with no interest, to return lost objects, to refrain from verbal abuse and gossip, not to take revenge or bear a grudge, to protect animals from suffering, and to demand that we love every human being regardless of race, religion or color. "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Lev. 19:18) was introduced 2,000 years before Christianity.
11. Sexism: Judaism taught that men and women are equal in the eyes of God (in fact the first “Man” was not actually a man but an androgynous male/female being which was then separated into two). From the earliest times women have held important leadership positions in the Jewish world. Our matriarchs were considered even greater than their husbands in prophecy and other areas. Judaism forbade sexual harassment of any kind. Way ahead of its time, a woman’s rights to sexual and emotional intimacy were enshrined by the first Jewish marriage contracts (ketuba). Men are obligated to honor their wives even more than themselves. Women in Judaism enjoyed more rights than in most of Western civilization. For example, it took until 1900 for all US states to allow women to buy, sell and own property or to write her own will and contracts.
Without the Jewish nation, the world as we know it would simply not exist. Paul Johnson summed it up beautifully: "To them (the Jews) we owe the idea of equality before the law, both divine and human; of the sanctity of life and the dignity of the human person; of the individual conscience and so of personal redemption; of the collective conscience and so of social responsibility; of peace as an abstract ideal and love as the foundation of justice, and many other items which constitute the basic moral furniture of the human mind. Without the Jews, it might have been a much emptier place."
And while the world was busy absorbing Jewish inventions into their culture, they were simultaneously persecuting and not infrequently attempting to destroy us. How strange that one of humanity’s most positive contributors has been singled out for more hate than any other. Cahill observed this phenomenon: “Our history is replete with examples of those who have refused to see what the Jews are really about, who – through intellectual blindness, racial chauvinism, xenophobia, or just plain evil – have been unable to give this oddball tribe, this raggle-taggle band, this race of wanderers who are the progenitors of the Western world, their due.”
...American President John Adams, said, "I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize man than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that chance had ordered the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations.”
from: How the Jews Changed the World and We Don’t Even Know It
“The Jews started it all – and by "it" I mean so many of the things we care about, the underlying values that make all of us, Jew and gentile, believer and atheist, tick. Without the Jews, we would see the world through different eyes, hear with different ears, even feel with different feelings. And we would set a different course for our lives… Their worldview has become so much a part of us that at this point it might as well have been written into our cells as a genetic code.”
--- Thomas Cahill, The Gifts of the Jews
The number of fundamental ideas and values the Jewish People have given to the world is truly remarkable. And it’s also remarkable how most people don’t realize this.
We simply forget that these concepts and ideals were once not the way of the world. In fact, they were not only revolutionary but often at complete odds with conventional wisdom of the times. As Paul Johnson wrote in The History of the Jews, “All the great conceptual discoveries of the intellect seem obvious and inescapable once they have been revealed, but it requires a special genius to formulate them for the first time. The Jews had this gift.”
1. Sabbath Day: The Romans ridiculed the Jews for their idleness but we have none but the Jews to thank for our weekend. Until the Jewish invention of Sabbath, every day, every month, every year was the same. We introduced the concept of taking out time to focus on the higher things in life and enjoying being and not just doing. Christians adapted the Jewish Shabbat to Sunday in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.1
2. Peace on Earth: In a world that revered the warrior above all others, survival of the fittest was the highest value. If you could get it, you took it. The cost in human life was irrelevant. Judaism introduced the altruistic concept that peace amongst men was preferable to my tribe’s enrichment.
As the prophet Isaiah wrote, “The wolf will live with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the goat; the calf and young lion and fatling will be together, and a little child will lead them” (11:6).
And “They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore” (2:4).
3. Universal Literacy and Education: In a world where literacy was a luxury enjoyed by the vast minority, the People of the Book taught that the pursuit of wisdom and learning was the highest pursuit and the right and obligation of every child and adult. No Jewish community existed without a school. Even the Greeks and Romans came nowhere near creating a written culture, 2 and the medieval world saw even greater drops in literacy. The Church, ancient Greece and the United States not only discouraged literacy for some (e.g. Blacks, slaves, non-clergy), but it took until 1918 for every US state to require students to complete elementary school. 3 It took India until 2009 to adopt what the Jewish nation has been practicing for 3,500 years.
4. Sabbatical Year: The idea for academics and some professionals (20% of UK companies now have a career break policy, and many more joining the trend! 4) to take a year off every seven years to focus on academic advancement, comes directly from the Torah. Judaism requires every farmer to take the entire seventh year off from work to focus on studying, self-improvement and inspiration. One can imagine the impact of that intellectual focus on the entire nation.
5. Justice for All: In a world where women, children, the poor, immigrants and other vulnerable members of society were systematically abused, the Jewish legal system was the first to protect the rights of the underdog and the helpless. As the Torah states, “You shall not wrong or oppress a foreigner, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. You shall not abuse the widow or orphan. If you do abuse them, when they cry out to me, I will surely heed their cry” (Exodus 22:21-23).
Jewish law ensured that every man and woman has the right to a fair trial, is innocent before proven guilty, and allows for no prejudice towards the rich or powerful.
6. Monotheism: Judaism revolutionized the concept of God; from a belief in multiple deities and idols that require our sacrifice (even humans), are created in the image of Man and can be bribed and manipulated, to recognizing the One Infinite, loving, altruistic Creator who is the unifying source of the entire universe, who needs nothing from mankind, and is equally available to every human being.
7. Infinite Value of Every Human Life: In a world of human sacrifice, murder of children (particularly baby girls), and wanton war and killing to further material gains, Judaism taught that every life is holy, created in the image of God, and of infinite value – even the old, the mentally or physically handicapped and the sick. If you think that is obvious, consider the practice of human sacrifice that was central to most South American civilizations until the Spanish Christians conquered them just 500 years ago.
8. The Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness: While the founding fathers of America may have found “these truths to be self-evident”, in fact it was far from self-evident unless you were highly influenced by Jewish values (otherwise the Declaration of Independence in 1776 would not have been so revolutionary!). Many societies up to modern times have sought to limit individuality in the name of service to the state or religion or feudal lord (Communism, Nazism, many religions and all totalitarian regimes). But 3,000 years before 1776, Judaism introduced to the world that every human has the right, and obligation, to aspire to reaching his/her unique goals, personal fulfilment and potential.
9. Limited Governmental Powers: It took until the Magna Carta in medieval England for the first small limitations on the power of the ruler to be instituted. Until then despots of all kinds could and would take advantage of their citizens monetarily, militarily and judicially for their own gain. The king was omnipotent. The Torah was the first system to place limits on the powers of the monarch. His powers were overseen by an independent judicial branch of government (Sanhedrin/Supreme Court), thousands of years before the rest of the world was ready to adopt these ideas. And the Jewish king carried with him a Torah scroll, reminding him that he too is subjugated to all of its laws.
10. Tzedaka and Tikkun Olam: In a world where the idea of giving away one’s property to others was seen as both bizarre and foolhardy, Judaism taught that we are obligated to donate 10-20% (tithe) of what we earn to make the world a better place. Judaism was trend-setting by millennium when it required us to lend money to our fellow man with no interest, to return lost objects, to refrain from verbal abuse and gossip, not to take revenge or bear a grudge, to protect animals from suffering, and to demand that we love every human being regardless of race, religion or color. "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Lev. 19:18) was introduced 2,000 years before Christianity.
11. Sexism: Judaism taught that men and women are equal in the eyes of God (in fact the first “Man” was not actually a man but an androgynous male/female being which was then separated into two). From the earliest times women have held important leadership positions in the Jewish world. Our matriarchs were considered even greater than their husbands in prophecy and other areas. Judaism forbade sexual harassment of any kind. Way ahead of its time, a woman’s rights to sexual and emotional intimacy were enshrined by the first Jewish marriage contracts (ketuba). Men are obligated to honor their wives even more than themselves. Women in Judaism enjoyed more rights than in most of Western civilization. For example, it took until 1900 for all US states to allow women to buy, sell and own property or to write her own will and contracts.
Without the Jewish nation, the world as we know it would simply not exist. Paul Johnson summed it up beautifully: "To them (the Jews) we owe the idea of equality before the law, both divine and human; of the sanctity of life and the dignity of the human person; of the individual conscience and so of personal redemption; of the collective conscience and so of social responsibility; of peace as an abstract ideal and love as the foundation of justice, and many other items which constitute the basic moral furniture of the human mind. Without the Jews, it might have been a much emptier place."
And while the world was busy absorbing Jewish inventions into their culture, they were simultaneously persecuting and not infrequently attempting to destroy us. How strange that one of humanity’s most positive contributors has been singled out for more hate than any other. Cahill observed this phenomenon: “Our history is replete with examples of those who have refused to see what the Jews are really about, who – through intellectual blindness, racial chauvinism, xenophobia, or just plain evil – have been unable to give this oddball tribe, this raggle-taggle band, this race of wanderers who are the progenitors of the Western world, their due.”
...American President John Adams, said, "I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize man than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that chance had ordered the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations.”
from: How the Jews Changed the World and We Don’t Even Know It
- Status
Trending content
-
-
-
-
-
Thread 'The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !'
- Brightfame52
Replies: 230
