The Failure of Atheism to Account for Existence

[Brad Huber]

Can you demonstrate we have a spirit?

Even science tells us that matter and energy cannot be truly destroyed, only changed from one form to another. When we die, our body loses it water with time, and the body turns to dust with time (ashes to ashes, dust to dust). So VIncent, science will tell you that our "energy" simply dissipates upon death, but they have no science to prove this, they simply say it because they would rather that happen then our spirit energy retaining a core substance that continues on after the death of the body. They do this because they are against faith in God, and whenever something not understandable happens, when their God, science and humanism fails them, they simply retort that its only a matter of time before science finds the "real" explanation. They would prefer even a lie over the truth of God and His truth.

 

[Quantrill]

Greetings again Quantrill,

I forgot to mention the many, many advancements and discoveries that have helped countless people especially in democratic free world countries that have 'been given to us' by Jews.
You've got a population about 0.2% of the worlds population, with more scientific, medicinal, technological, etc etc contributions than all other people groups, with people enjoying these inventions and discoveries daily in day to day as well as in health and scientific research, defence ,etc etc - all by a small bunch of people who have been scattered around the world for who knows how long, surviving continual attempts of genocide, mass purgings and the only people group to survive without a home land country for far longer than any other, a small people group, who have also as their God, the One and same as the Bible writes of, and all the great and wonderful moral standards introduced around the world, etc etc etc.... and yet, some think it intelligent and reasonable to reject the God of the Jews and their Book?

Take a quick look at a couple of lists here:

Category:Jewish scientists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Category:Jewish physicists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of Israeli inventions and discoveries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and they are only the tip of the iceberg.
Drip Irrigation, the Pager, the Walkie-talkie, Refrigerated Railroad Car, High-vacuum Electron Tubes, the Incandescent Lamp, Kodachrome Film, the Blimp, the Adding Machine, Stainless Steel, Tapered Roller Bearings. Google, the Wire Transmission Facsimilie (FAX) , the Microphone, the Gramophone, the Microprocessing Chip, Optical Fiber Cable, Laser, Cellular Technology, Streptomycin, the Videotape Recorder, Prozac, Valium, Insulin, The Polio Vaccine, Radiation, Chemotherapy, the Artificial Kidney Dialysis machine, the Defibrillator, the Cardiac Pacemaker, Vaccination against the deadly “Hepatitis B” virus, the Vaccinating Needle, Laser Technology, Sound Movies, Videotape, Color Television, Instant Photography, Holography, Jeans, Lipstick, the Ballpoint Pen, Instant Coffee, Television Remote Control, Traffic Lights, Scotchguard, the Flexistraw.,... etc etc etc etc etc.....

Someone please tell me how and why i should ignore the fact that these same people have the God of the Bible as their God and that it is only through the holding on to the Scriptures that they have survived (outside of God's hand upon them, which is part of the Scriptures, of course - a big part).
Even a lot of the 'great' men who the atheists and non believers admire and hold in great esteem are Jews.
At least 178 Jews have been awarded the Nobel Prize, accounting for 23% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2008 and counting.... out of 0.2% of the population.

Man alive!

But i suppose what gets me the most is that the majority of professing atheists make full use of the God of the Bible and His People (including the countless Christians who have done so much good for and to and in this world) while going about spouting rot against any evidence and/or trying to con-vince the masses that Christianity is a lie or a delusion!
I wonder how many would be so outspoken against the Lord if all the great contributions that they enjoy daily were removed?

Anyways, thanks for replying,


Godspeed and bless you ....><>

Indeed this is so.

It reminds many years ago I was doing some construction side work for, I will call him Bob, a Jewish man who was not Christian. Before long we naturally were talking about the Bible and God. Bob then said to me, I want to tell you something. One of my relatives was a translator and investigator of the Dead Sea Scrolls. And one of the most amazing finds was the book of Isaiah which contains the well known verses of the coming and suffering Messiah.

Bob then said he asked his relative what he thought about Jesus Christ in light of these passages. Bob said he more specifically asked him about the resurrection. Do you believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?

And Bob's relative said, I do not know. To which Bob immediately explained to me, that for him to say 'he didn't know' instead of 'no' meant the evidence before him was too overwhelming for him to say no. The evidence was there, but it just brought him to the edge, it didn't push him over.

For, what it's worth.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

So true brother

There has to be a reason man says, the scientists will know LOL

Image the world after the Rapture, we will not be here to see what happens but, it is easy to imagine.

Where have all these people gone, where could they have disappeared to.

The Rapture, no they say don't talk silly.

Aliens have taken them :grin:

Blessings

Yes, of course. They must and will come up with something.

Quantrill

 

[Curtis]

I was a christian, your denying that fact with no evidence is another example of Christians telling non believers what they believe or believed.

Although spiritually dead people can NOT see into the realm of the spirit, the Lord knew this so he gave ALL men one huge "visual aid" that they can see with their eyes to help man understand how the eternal invisible realm is including God, and his eternal power, and Godhead. In this way, man has no excuse to not believe.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Everything created in the physical world is a shadow (type) of the invisible eternal realm.

There will never be any man or women with the excuse "I do not believe" because God has shown it to them.

 

[Quantrill]

Although spiritually dead people can NOT see into the realm of the spirit, the Lord knew this so he gave ALL men one huge "visual aid" that they can see with their eyes to help man understand how the eternal invisible realm is including God, and his eternal power, and Godhead. In this way, man has no excuse to not believe.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Everything created in the physical world is a shadow (type) of the invisible eternal realm.

There will never be any man or women with the excuse "I do not believe" because God has shown it to them.

This is so true. What the atheist's do not know is that God sees the heart. He reads your every thought and imagination. You can say one thing but God knows what you are really saying. You can lie to man, but you can't lie to God.

Atheist's are really liars. They actually know God is there but they are opposed to Him. They come across as 'scientific' with some questions but are really haters of God and want to destroy anyone's belief in God that they can. They deceive themselves.

When Jesus Christ returns, what do these who are opposed to God do? Do they say," my oh my, it is all true after all. So I must become a believer. " Not hardly. They say, "...to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. " (Rev. 6:16-17)

You see....it really never is a question of the atheist's ignorance. He knows, but is in opposition to God and Christ. He is actively opposed to God and to the people of God.

What a miserable existence. I would rather be a Christian who knows God, suffering under the injustices from the people of the world and the devil, then be one who was in opposition to God, and enjoying the benefits from the prince of the world, satan.

A good and wise Bible teacher once told us, never feel angry for the gain that the worldly and ungodly man gets in this life. It is the only heaven he will ever know. By the same token....never feel too sorry for the believer for the hell he goes through in this life, as it is the only hell he will ever know.

Quantrill

 

[Br. Bear]

Not at all.

Greetings Vincent,

Do you mind if i don't reason with you, for the sake of unity, etc?
However, may i ask one or two questions?

What evidence are you looking for and are you looking at all?


Bless you ....><>
ps.. praying for you
Jesus is Lord

 

[Vincent]

Have you ever noticed the personality of a person whose spirit has left their body? They don't talk much.

Jas 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

That is death. Not a spirit leaving the body.

 

[Vincent]

Simple faith is the only way to come to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. When I say 'simple' I am saying by faith alone. When I say 'simple' I am implying real faith. In other words, you come because you really do believe.

All that is required is faith....but that is required.

Do you believe in any other gods? You can 'say' you believe, but I am asking do you really believe it?

Yes, I can tell you what you believed and what you didn't by your very experience as an atheist now. By your very ignorance of what 'faith' is.

Quantrill

I did really believe now I really do not. I use faith as your book defines it. Not how any particular Christian defines it.

 

[Vincent]

Even science tells us that matter and energy cannot be truly destroyed, only changed from one form to another.

Well energy cannot be destroyed, matter can.

When we die, our body loses it water with time, and the body turns to dust with time (ashes to ashes, dust to dust). So VIncent, science will tell you that our "energy" simply dissipates upon death,

Show me any scientist that claims this. Decomposition is well known.

but they have no science to prove this, they simply say it because they would rather that happen then our spirit energy retaining a core substance that continues on after the death of the body. They do this because they are against faith in God, and whenever something not understandable happens, when their God, science and humanism fails them, they simply retort that its only a matter of time before science finds the "real" explanation. They would prefer even a lie over the truth of God and His truth.

Who are they? This is big claim can you provide evidence that most scientists think this? Science can explain in detail what happens to a dead body.

 

[Vincent]

Although spiritually dead people can NOT see into the realm of the spirit, the Lord knew this so he gave ALL men one huge "visual aid" that they can see with their eyes to help man understand how the eternal invisible realm is including God, and his eternal power, and Godhead. In this way, man has no excuse to not believe.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Everything created in the physical world is a shadow (type) of the invisible eternal realm.

There will never be any man or women with the excuse "I do not believe" because God has shown it to them.

This are just assertions.

 

[Vincent]

This is so true. What the atheist's do not know is that God sees the heart. He reads your every thought and imagination. You can say one thing but God knows what you are really saying. You can lie to man, but you can't lie to God.

Then god should know I don't believe he exists and why I don't. He should also kniw what would convince me.

Atheist's are really liars. They actually know God is there but they are opposed to Him. They come across as 'scientific' with some questions but are really haters of God and want to destroy anyone's belief in God that they can. They deceive themselves.

This is what your religion and uncritical thought has gotten you. Name calling. Calling people haters of god and liars with no evidence except a book that says I believe. I simply do not believe and you are a liar here.

When Jesus Christ returns, what do these who are opposed to God do? Do they say," my oh my, it is all true after all. So I must become a believer. " Not hardly. They say, "...to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. " (Rev. 6:16-17)

You see....it really never is a question of the atheist's ignorance. He knows, but is in opposition to God and Christ. He is actively opposed to God and to the people of God.

Another lie. I know this must make you feel better but it is untrue at least for me. I just don't believe. But go ahead call me names.

What a miserable existence. I would rather be a Christian who knows God, suffering under the injustices from the people of the world and the devil, then be one who was in opposition to God, and enjoying the benefits from the prince of the world, satan.

What injustices? Condone slavery, deny gay people marriage rights, deny children needed medical procedures, calling others liars that disagree with them, denying non believers the right to hold office?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Vincent, @Vincent

A very kind friend once told me of my 'stupidity', but in much stronger terms. I had a choice to either arc up at him like a short on an electric welder and tell him that he was meant to be my friend and shouldn't be so mean to me... boo-hoo poor me, style [which i have been known to do at least once in my life! ] or consider his words as he was a friend and accept that he was right. Sometimes that isn't easy especially if the friendship is so new.

Forgive me please if anything i wrote offended you.
I have removed the offending post.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Science can explain in detail what happens to a dead body.

yes, and the dying cells each day. Amazing stuff, isn't it?
Did you know there are many sciences besides the ones that can tell us about dead bodies? Some of those sciences don't get much airplay when it comes down to evidence required to believe. Probably a bit boring. Mind you , some people major on minors and minor on majors, because we are conditioned to seek a bigger thrill for our senses, even the ones that are not seen, if you get what i mean?

Go easy Vincent. you seem to be getting agitated. There's no need to be.
You keep giving quick repetitive replies with only negatives and what seems to be a determination to undermine Christianity.

I shall let you know, now, that such practice does not last long here.

vincent, if you want to interact, grow up a bit and show a little respect, after all, you know the ropes, (you claim) and if you are here to try to help anyone see the light that you see, then go about it more gracefully, please.

and as you might have forgotten, a lot of those scientists you refer to are full bottled Bible believing Christians. Some are similarly into other beliefs and their gods. And then of course there are numerous Jewish scientists, you know, the People of the Book.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

He should also kniw what would convince me.

Me again....
remember Abraham? What did he get as far as convincing goes? Yet, if he did not believe God because it was God Who spoke to him, then all your everything would probably not exist. Think about it... really and honestly think about it... take a little history into account and do a little math.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Brother-Paul]

I did really believe now I really do not. I use faith as your book defines it. Not how any particular Christian defines it.

Greetings Vincent @Vincent

What you are saying, correct me if I am wrong, is you read the Bible and in doing so think you had done what it said.

Anyone can read the Bible, to many it is text on a page, only to those who are born-again can see and read it and know it is 'The Living Word'

Academics read it, highly qualified people read it, ministers who are qualified read it, all of these are probably good people in their own mind, all of these are good readers for sure, many of these will be good speakers, but if they are not born-again it is words of paper.

Some may be athiests, some may be agnostic, some may be simply head Christians. To them, all it is words on paper, they are not born-again. There are many of each of these in the world, there are many head Christians in the churches/places of worship. But none of these are Saved.

Matthew 18:1-3 (NKJV)
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them,
3 and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted (born again) and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Unless we become like little children, we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

Unless we are born-again we will not see the Kingdom of Heaven

We can all relate to this, no one is born saved. All born again Christians have been where you are, it is words on a page, it doesn't make sense, it cannot be sussed out, it cannot be seen, it won't be either, unless we are born again, born anew.

John 3:3 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The trouble is as we get older, we feel we can suss things out for our self, we over complicate things, we read things, take them into our heads, analyse them, try to apply our logic and in doing so it remains in our head.

Unless we become like little children, is hard for an adult to accept, we are older, we understand more, we are not kids anymore. Jesus didn't say that, he talks from the heart, when he says we should be like little children he is saying trust me, trust my Word, trust my Father in Heaven. Submit to the Father through me, it is as simple as that. God is saying, don't just read The Word, take what I say to heart, believe me, trust me, as a little child does.

A child may say, daddy is the moon really made of cheese, if daddy says yes love, the child believes, because the little child trusts daddy, loves daddy, accepts what daddy says. Jesus is saying, my Word is Truth, trust me, trust my Father, my Father loves you so much, I died for your sins, believe me, allow me into your heart, I can do nothing for you if I am only in your head.

Proverbs 3:5-6 (NKJV)
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.

John 12:44-50 (NKJV)
44 Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.
46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NKJV)
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

None believers, not born again are veiled from the Truth in God's Word. Hence it is words on a page. 2 Cor 4:3.

Faith in God, through Jesus, is the simplest thing in the world, realise we are sinners, come to the cross, accept Jesus died for our sins, repent, believe as little children. and the veil is removed.

If it is in the head, it is dead!

If it is in the heart, it is where life starts.

May the Lord Bless you, may His light shine upon you, once you realise your sins, you realise you need a saviour. Come to Jesus as you are, repent and accept Him as a child does, come to the Father, through Jesus, repent and accept Him, call Him Father, Abba Father, call Him daddy, He loves you and is waiting for you to open the door and let Him in. God made the first move to save you, Jesus died for our sins so that we may be saved. He says that in John 12:47 above and elsewhere in scripture.

Jesus stands at the door of your heart my friend, but only you can open it.

Peace be with you.

 

[Brother-Paul]

This is so true. What the atheist's do not know is that God sees the heart. He reads your every thought and imagination. You can say one thing but God knows what you are really saying. You can lie to man, but you can't lie to God.

Atheist's are really liars. They actually know God is there but they are opposed to Him. They come across as 'scientific' with some questions but are really haters of God and want to destroy anyone's belief in God that they can. They deceive themselves.

Quantrill

Amen to your first statement brother.

But I am not certain, in every case, your second comment is correct. I have come across atheist's who reject that there is any God, and do not accept there is a devil.

Bless you

 

[Quantrill]

I did really believe now I really do not. I use faith as your book defines it. Not how any particular Christian defines it.

No you didn't believe. And you haven't used faith as the Bible defines it. You described your flippant faith in your post [HASH=2916]#(59[/HASH]). There you said you can believe in any simple god. You don't know the true faith of the believer.

And, if you want to use our Bible to instruct us, then don't get upset when we use our Bible to disprove your lies.

For example: (1 John 2:18-19) "...as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would not doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

See? You say differently. Guess who I believe? It's not you.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Then god should know I don't believe he exists and why I don't. He should also kniw what would convince me.

This is what your religion and uncritical thought has gotten you. Name calling. Calling people haters of god and liars with no evidence except a book that says I believe. I simply do not believe and you are a liar here.

Another lie. I know this must make you feel better but it is untrue at least for me. I just don't believe. But go ahead call me names.

What injustices? Condone slavery, deny gay people marriage rights, deny children needed medical procedures, calling others liars that disagree with them, denying non believers the right to hold office?

He does know why you don't believe. He does know what would convince you. Apparently He is not interested.

Our faith and beliefs are based upon the Bible. You set yourself against the Bible and say things contrary to what the Bible says. That makes you a liar. Who do you think I am going to believe? Again, it ain't you. You don't mind calling our Bible a lie. Yet you get upset when you are called a liar. What a hypocrite.

It is not a question of me feeling better. It is just the truth as our Bible lays out for us. See again (Rev. 6:16-17). Oh wait, you don't believe that anyway. But then again, I don't believe you.

Man, that last statement sounds great. Where does such place exist? I will head there as soon as I can.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Amen to your first statement brother.

But I am not certain, in every case, your second comment is correct. I have come across atheist's who reject that there is any God, and do not accept there is a devil.

Bless you

Yes, the atheist does reject that there is a God. But he deceives himself as he had the knowledge that God is there. (Rom. 1:19-20) Then walking in that deception...that lie...he convinces himself it is so. But it is not so. What is so, is that he is in opposition to God. The atheist never had a saving faith. But he did have the knowledge of God. And God will hold him accountable for it on that day.

Quantrill

 

[Brother-Paul]

Yes, the atheist does reject that there is a God. But he deceives himself as he had the knowledge that God is there. (Rom. 1:19-20) Then walking in that deception...that lie...he convinces himself it is so. But it is not so. What is so, is that he is in opposition to God. The atheist never had a saving faith. But he did have the knowledge of God. And God will hold him accountable for it on that day.

Quantrill

In total agreeance brother.

But it is also true that the deceiver of souls is saying, 'surely God has not said that, believe in yourself, you have read it does it make sense, No'.

Of course it makes no sense, they are spiritually discerned.

They need to read and take to heart, John 3:1-21 for starters.

But it their heart is closed, if they only take it in their minds they will not understand.

Explained in 1 Cor 1:18 and in John 3:12 and else where.