The GAY : Agenda

[lentz]

Lentz, it is not 'what I personally believe' it is what scripture clearly teaches.

Please, your next post needs scriptures, else I am done talking to you on this.



This is another mistake many make. Do you think you stop sinning in heaven? Do you think angels in heaven are perfect?

Sin is sin and it has degrees. Hell is a home for unrepentant sinners. Repentant sinners go to heaven / are in heaven. All are sinners. Only God is good and perfect Mark 10:18.

Sinning never ends

Case for sin never ending: If we ever say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves 1 John 1:8. Jesus had one important message for all, repent Luke 5:32. Those that go to hell, go there because they harden their hearts to repentance Heb 3:15. IE They are unrepentant. Humans go to heaven...

www.talkjesus.com

Yeah,we’re done
Now you have angels in heaven sinning.
You claim WE will sin when we get there.
So much for a body raised in incorruption.
So all things are not righteous there?
Yeah, we’re done

 

[Charlie24]

To sin simply means to fall short,miss the mark.
If you want to believe one sin is greater than another,fine.
But don’t expect everyone to follow along.
Sin is sin, hell is hell. No matter which one you feel is greater, the consequences are the same

That's true, sin is sin, and that's the bottom line with the results to follow.

However, there are degrees of sin as we see from Christ.

When Christ would not speak at His trail, Pilate said, you have nothing to say, don't you know I have the power to crucify you or to set you free?

Christ broke His silence and said,

John 19:11

"Jesus answered, “Thou couldest have no power at all against Me, unless it were given thee from above. Therefore he that delivered Me unto thee hath the greater sin.”

Christ was saying that the religious leaders who delivered Him to Pilate had the "greater sin" than the Romans who actually carried out His crucifixion.

This leads us to believe there are some sins greater than others, which gives credit to degrees of punishment in Hell according to the degree of the sin.

 

[KingJ]

Yeah,we’re done
Now you have angels in heaven sinning.

Only God is good according to Jesus in Mark 10:18. Do you believe angels are God? Do you believe angels never ''miss the mark''.

That is a bad definition of sin. Sin is a bit more complex.

You claim WE will sin when we get there.

Correct. I linked you to a thread I created wherein I explain myself in detail in the OP.

So much for a body raised in incorruption.

We are made perfect to God but will never be perfect like God. Do you believe we will be God in heaven?

So all things are not righteous there?

People will repent and be covered by the blood of Jesus. A better statement would be to say 'as righteous as is possible'. We are not God who is perfect.

Yeah, we’re done

Until I see scripture from you, you are treating this discussion forum like X / Twitter.

 

[lentz]

Yeah,we’re done

That's true, sin is sin, and that's the bottom line with the results to follow.

However, there are degrees of sin as we see from Christ.

When Christ would not speak at His trail, Pilate said, you have nothing to say, don't you know I have the power to crucify you or to set you free?

Christ broke His silence and said,

John 19:11

"Jesus answered, “Thou couldest have no power at all against Me, unless it were given thee from above. Therefore he that delivered Me unto thee hath the greater sin.”

Christ was saying that the religious leaders who delivered Him to Pilate had the "greater sin" than the Romans who actually carried out His crucifixion.

This leads us to believe there are some sins greater than others, which gives credit to degrees of punishment in Hell according to the degree of the sin.

I think Jesus was only saying that Pilate was only following orders,and it seems,those orders were from the holy spirit

 

[lentz]

Only God is good according to Jesus in Mark 10:18. Do you believe angels are God? Do you believe angels never ''miss the mark''.

That is a bad definition of sin. Sin is a bit more complex.



Correct. I linked you to a thread I created wherein I explain myself in detail in the OP.



We are made perfect to God but will never be perfect like God. Do you believe we will be God in heaven?



People will repent and be covered by the blood of Jesus. A better statement would be to say 'as righteous as is possible'. We are not God who is perfect.



Until I see scripture from you, you are treating this discussion forum like X / Twitter.

You have no idea what you’re talking about
Good day

 

[Charlie24]

I think Jesus was only saying that Pilate was only following orders,and it seems,those orders were from the holy spirit

Even though it was determined before the foundation of the world that Christ would be crucified, Pilate will have no excuse before God for his decision.

He alone made that decision out of fear, and God knew before He created the world that Pilate would be the man who made that choice to crucify our Lord.

 

[KingJ]

You have no idea what you’re talking about
Good day

Ok, thanks for the effort in your rebuttal. I have learnt so much from our interaction.

 

[MedicBravo]

I don’t see where God holds one sin worse than another. As the old saying goes,you will go to hell for lying same as you would for stealing.

All sin leads to Hell regardless.
Some sins are WORSE and the judgment will be worse.
You speed and are caught. At court the judge, by law, can judge and punish you according to it. Most often, it's a monetary fine unless there was severe endangerment to self or others.
A murderer is found guilty but his case is before yours.
Should the judge send YOU to prison for a long time and simply fine the murderer? No.

 

[lentz]

All sin leads to Hell regardless.
Some sins are WORSE and the judgment will be worse.
You speed and are caught. At court the judge, by law, can judge and punish you according to it. Most often, it's a monetary fine unless there was severe endangerment to self or others.
A murderer is found guilty but his case is before yours.
Should the judge send YOU to prison for a long time and simply fine the murderer? No.

You can’t compare God to a human judge.
Liars and murders both will have their part in the lake of fire.
Hell is hell. It won’t be hotter for some and cooler for others.
This whole topic is nonsense and ridiculous.

 

[Charlie24]

Even though it was determined before the foundation of the world that Christ would be crucified, Pilate will have no excuse before God for his decision.

He alone made that decision out of fear, and God knew before He created the world that Pilate would be the man who made that choice to crucify our Lord.

Pilate didn't want to crucify Christ, he did everything he could to avoid it.

But when the Jews (religious leaders) said, you are no friend of Caesar, that struck fear into the heart of Pilate.

He feared they would send a letter to Caesar in complaint, and Caesar would see him as incompetent to handle the Jews.

 

[hopefulson]

Lentz, it is not 'what I personally believe' it is what scripture clearly teaches.

Please, your next post needs scriptures, else I am done talking to you on this.



This is another mistake many make. Do you think you stop sinning in heaven? Do you think angels in heaven are perfect?

Sin is sin and it has degrees. Hell is a home for unrepentant sinners. Repentant sinners go to heaven / are in heaven. All are sinners. Only God is good and perfect Mark 10:18.

Sinning never ends

Case for sin never ending: If we ever say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves 1 John 1:8. Jesus had one important message for all, repent Luke 5:32. Those that go to hell, go there because they harden their hearts to repentance Heb 3:15. IE They are unrepentant. Humans go to heaven...

www.talkjesus.com

So every tear wiped away no more sin and death refers to what? I think the exploration of this is a good exploration. When we are a part of Jesus Christ the sin battle is over. I am not referring to now but by His realized work in the future. ( The Marriage Supper of The Lamb. ) What is the substantive meaning of Christ's Words ( raise your heads up for your redemption draws near )? What is the actual state change? Because I am assuming He is referencing a state change for us and the world as well. If it was not us as well as the world then the state of both would remain the same. However the state of the world will indeed change but yet we know there will be rebellion in the end. That change will come from the loosening of Satan for a season. So what effect does Satan have exactly to produce this final travesty? As for me I take responsibility and I assume it in the fear of The Lord and in that abiding in Him alone and always is the only shelter from sin. All of it is real and very apparent to anyone who has fought the battle in real and honest terms in their own souls. So should we consider this and remembering this quote from Jesus Christ as to what is necessary for The Lord's acceptance ( indeed only one) alluding to Faith in Himself. So also Paul attests to this in this ( Oh foolish Galatians who has bewitched you?) for clearly Paul preached Christ Crucified. Should we return to using law and a twisted obedience as a way? A way under our own control and not owned, provided, and controlled by The Spirit and Person of Jesus Christ Whom we are commanded to know and abide in? I think this is indeed something to ponder on rather than lay down the law about it. What say you?

 

[hopefulson]

What does that mean to you?

What are foolish Galatians?

 

[KingJ]

So every tear wiped away no more sin and death refers to what? I think the exploration of this is a good exploration. When we are a part of Jesus Christ the sin battle is over. I am not referring to now but by His realized work in the future. ( The Marriage Supper of The Lamb. ) What is the substantive meaning of Christ's Words ( raise your heads up for your redemption draws near )? What is the actual state change? Because I am assuming He is referencing a state change for us and the world as well. If it was not us as well as the world then the state of both would remain the same. However the state of the world will indeed change but yet we know there will be rebellion in the end. That change will come from the loosening of Satan for a season. So what effect does Satan have exactly to produce this final travesty? As for me I take responsibility and I assume it in the fear of The Lord and in that abiding in Him alone and always is the only shelter from sin. All of it is real and very apparent to anyone who has fought the battle in real and honest terms in their own souls. So should we consider this and remembering this quote from Jesus Christ as to what is necessary for The Lord's acceptance ( indeed only one) alluding to Faith in Himself. So also Paul attests to this in this ( Oh foolish Galatians who has bewitched you?) for clearly Paul preached Christ Crucified. Should we return to using law and a twisted obedience as a way? A way under our own control and not owned, provided, and controlled by The Spirit and Person of Jesus Christ Whom we are commanded to know and abide in? I think this is indeed something to ponder on rather than lay down the law about it. What say you?

Hi, so as to not derail this thread, I will answer your post here Sinning never ends.

 

[B-A-C]

What are foolish Galatians?

Those who returned to ceremonial law and cicumcision. Galatians is about circumcision more than anything else.

Gal 2:12; For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.
Gal 5:2; Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal 5:3; And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal 5:6; For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Gal 5:11; But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
Gal 6:15; For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Gal 2:3; But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

Gal 2:7; But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
Gal 2:8; (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),
Gal 2:9; and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

1Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

[hopefulson]

I think that because you are departing from Jesus Christ as all in all a derailment is present in concept. But your right however, the place this was heading was a place not worth going. Salvation is not present there in fact or concept.

 

[MedicBravo]

You can’t compare God to a human judge.
Liars and murders both will have their part in the lake of fire.
Hell is hell. It won’t be hotter for some and cooler for others.
This whole topic is nonsense and ridiculous.

I can.
Not equating a mortal judge as being the came but simply, crimes in a court of law where a judge/the Judge takes evidence and according to law gives just punishment.
Your last is your opinion.
Fact is, not all sins are the same.
If you don't understand it's ok.

 

[KingJ]

You can’t compare God to a human judge.

Correct, He judges better then we do. He is 100% just, we can make mistakes.

Liars and murders both will have their part in the lake of fire.

Unless they repent.

Hell is hell. It won’t be hotter for some and cooler for others.

If not hotter and colder then perhaps length of time in a fire. How else can we explain Rom 2:6?

This whole topic is nonsense and ridiculous.

No Lentz, your posts and the effort you put into rebuttals are.

______________________

In this reply a non believer has gathered from your post that God is unjust (all sinners suffer same punishment) and has a separate codes of ethics to us (IE is evil).

Job says in Job 34:12 that it is UNTHINKABLE that God would do what is evil, or pervert justice.

But....Lentz knows better......

 

[lentz]

Correct, He judges better then we do. He is 100% just, we can make mistakes.



Unless they repent.



If not hotter and colder then perhaps length of time in a fire. How else can we explain Rom 2:6?



No Lentz, your posts and the effort you put into rebuttals are.

______________________

In this reply a non believer has gathered from your post that God is unjust (all sinners suffer same punishment) and has a separate codes of ethics to us (IE is evil).

Job says in Job 34:12 that it is UNTHINKABLE that God would do what is evil, or pervert justice.

But....Lentz knows better......

I never said saved people will go to hell.
I contradicted you,in that they still sin when they get to heaven.
As far as a shorter time in hell, scripture says eternal.
You know nothing about scripture. You are definitely a false teacher.
And don’t send private messages. I will paste them here.
Report all you want. I won’t care, and you will still be a heretic

 

[lentz]

9 minutes ago New Kingj said
And once more no evidence. Just an accusation.

I will ask the mods to temp ban you after your next troll like post.

'''Won't effect your life''. Well that shows you are a troll. If you weren't you would want to edify the site and help others

 

[KingJ]

I never said saved people will go to hell.

I never said you did.

I contradicted you,in that they still sin when they get to heaven.

Quote me? I don't see where you have.

As far as a shorter time in hell, scripture says eternal.

Yes, banishment is eternal. Punishment is eternal. Period in fire, well that is a terrible assumption you are making.

You know nothing about scripture. You are definitely a false teacher.

Says the one who hasn't quote a scripture in their last 15 posts and puts not effort into rebuttals.

And don’t send private messages. I will paste them here.

Feel free.

Report all you want. I won’t care, and you will still be a heretic

I take no offence to it coming from someone who does not produce edifying posts. You type like you bored and just want someone to hear your opinion. Like its scriptural.

________________________

I have proven that you have painted God as unjust and evil. Why don't you properly address the points I have raised and explain to all how you arrive at a belief where God is not unjust and evil with your statement.

Until you do, I think you calling me a heretic is very ironic. Every statement I make supports God being good and just. Righteous in all His ways. You make statements not caring about whether or not they misrepresent God. That is called failing at your one Christian job which is to be an ambassador for God.