The Man of Sin of II Thessalonians 2: 3

[Kinjaffa]

Sorry my Western friend, but using the military is not something he shuns or shys away from, the boundaries of the old Roman Empire stretched down into Northern Africa, So it will be with his dominion, a revamped Roman Empire.
He's setting up Christianity by attacking Islam in France and when he comes to power as central EU euro nation leader he'll force his secularism upon the Christian Church, you just wait and see!!
He's already got far to much say and influence for a French President,
he orchestrated the uprisings in both Egypt and Libya.
He's also an Hasdic Jew, who's sect are on the lookout for the future Messiah, wonder who he's got in mind?
Oh yeah! and his great great grandad was a Syrian jew.

I agree we can not know the AC now because he is revealed IMO after the church has been raptured. I don't agree however in calling folks who claim to know, "a fool" either, especially a brother in Christ.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

First off I am not "angry" with anyone. I love all and respect all. Therefore Matthew 5:22 doesn't apply to me in the sense you are trying to argue.

CONTINUING

Proverbs 10:14
"The wise lay up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool brings ruin near."

If someone has knowledge and proof that the French president is the Antichrist then show it. Otherwise they are indeed a fool and fail to lay up that knowledge. As for myself I don't claim anything contrary to what the holy scriptures state.

Proverbs 18:2
"A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion."

Rodd clearly stated his opinion that the French president is the Antichrist, and even said that we should "wait and see". Clearly he enjoys "expressing his opinion" and yet he does not state facts or biblical reference to back up his understanding. According to Proverbs 18:2, a fool is one who has not the understanding of a matter, but makes an opinion on it anyways.

Proverbs 26:5
"Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes."

It is our DUTY as followers of Yeshua to answer fools when they error. And when I see someone claiming, "Look, there is the Antichrist! His name is ______.", I must answer the issue because the scriptures demand it. And since it is clear that the Antichrists name will not be revealed until he commits the abomination of desolation (Daniel 9:27) anyone who claims to know the identity of the Antichrist before hand is a fool.

 

[WVMountaineers]

First off I am not "angry" with anyone. I love all and respect all. Therefore Matthew 5:22 doesn't apply to me in the sense you are trying to argue.

CONTINUING

Proverbs 10:14
"The wise lay up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool brings ruin near."

If someone has knowledge and proof that the French president is the Antichrist then show it. Otherwise they are indeed a fool and fail to lay up that knowledge. As for myself I don't claim anything contrary to what the holy scriptures state.

Proverbs 18:2
"A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion."

Rodd clearly stated his opinion that the French president is the Antichrist, and even said that we should "wait and see". Clearly he enjoys "expressing his opinion" and yet he does not state facts or biblical reference to back up his understanding. According to Proverbs 18:2, a fool is one who has not the understanding of a matter, but makes an opinion on it anyways.

Proverbs 26:5
"Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes."

It is our DUTY as followers of Yeshua to answer fools when they error. And when I see someone claiming, "Look, there is the Antichrist! His name is ______.", I must answer the issue because the scriptures demand it. And since it is clear that the Antichrists name will not be revealed until he commits the abomination of desolation (Daniel 9:27) anyone who claims to know the identity of the Antichrist before hand is a fool.

I think a rebuke of a brother should be done in love since none of us are without the potential for error on non-essential salvation doctrines like eschatology....and I do disagree on when the AC is revealed.....The AC will be known at the beginning of the 70th week. The event that starts the Day of the Lord or Tribulation is the signing of the covenant between the man of perdition and Israel per Daniel 9:27.

I think it will even be pretty clear even before the signing of the actual covenant because this guy is going to show up on the scence with the world begging for someone to show the way out of the total economic collapse the world is experiencing.

If we are close to the beginning of the tribulation now I can see why some people may have suspicions or want to speculate. This man will have to have some position of importance. I don't speculate because it serves no prupose in my mind and I think it can also discredit our witness to the world. I don't think however it necessarily makes a person a fool either and even if it does I'll let the Lord make that judgment.

 

[David777]

Interesting stuff eschatology.

Dear WVmountaineers, I agree with what you had to say. The use of "racca" or fool is probably too intense.

But, I do have a problem with something else you mentioned.

You said,

"I think it will even be pretty clear even before the signing of the actual covenant because this guy is going to show up on the scence with the world begging for someone to show the way out of the total economic collapse the world is experiencing."

I am not aware of the scriptural reference for this statement.

If you could be so kind as to supply the reference relating to economic collapse.

Thanks.

 

[rodd]

Please don't post a bunch of crazy theories without proof. It makes you look like a fool when you don't have EVIDENCE or PROOF to back up your claim. If you seriously think you can put a name to the Antichrist in present time then you are mocking the bible. Nobody will know the Antichrists true identity until he commits the abomination of desolation that the prophet Daniel spoke of. Because it is this event that reveals his identity. When people like your try to sit there and play guessing games, trying to put a name to the Antichrist, you are just like those weirdos trying to calculate the day and hour of the rapture.

It's not me mocking the bible, I am honouring the prophecies because they clearly reveal the actions and vocation of Antichrist
He, AC, is not going to come onto the world stage like some Darth Vader character in a Speilberg epic, he must evolve from the normal sphere of politics to a confederation of states willing to centralize their leadership under 1 man.
He Sarko, is also is calling for radical reform to the world's monitary system, the AC will introduce a new money system for buying and selling Rev 13, he's also reforming religion in his country, he will in time attempt to reform all religion, he's involved in all of this.
And remember, he's just conquered Egypt and Libya soon to fall. Dan 11:43.
Yes, and he's also put up his hand to mediate the Mid East Peace Process that will follow.
With the acceptance of the Lisbon Treaty, which he Sarko championed, the possibility is a reality, 1 leader of Europe.
To be a counterfeit Messiah, he must also be a Jew, Sarko is both, Jew and politician involved with the reforming of the gentile world.
All this in the generation that saw the return of the Jewish nation, remember in Matt 24 Jesus said that generation will not fully pass till all things are fulfilled.
Guess I'm taking Jesus on his word here! Not mocking it!
In scripture AC is called the Prince of darkness, or prince of this world, the French President is also Prince of the sovereign state of Andorra, and a Catholic Cannon or priest.
The name Nicholas, means 'conquerer of peoples' and the ancient Assyrian meaning of the name Sar/kozi is 'prince' and black or dark. Syria is an old middle east colony of France.
To tick so many boxes at this time in history, judging by the laws of probability I believe he's the best and really only possibility, I'm just telling you what I think by careful observation in consideration of the word.
This is what I understand will happen and is happening according to prophecy, the prophecies were given so we could see and understand what is about to happen, and not be ignorant to the time. We are told not to dispise prophecy, and that godly men searched the prophecies to try and determine the time of the incarnation of Christ.
God has also given signs that we may also know the time, this isn't a case of egoism as you suggest, nor and I trying to impress anyone with insight.
Sorry if I offend you, that you would go to the extent of calling me a fool.

 

[WVMountaineers]

Dear WVmountaineers, I agree with what you had to say. The use of "racca" or fool is probably too intense.

But, I do have a problem with something else you mentioned.

You said,

"I think it will even be pretty clear even before the signing of the actual covenant because this guy is going to show up on the scence with the world begging for someone to show the way out of the total economic collapse the world is experiencing."

I am not aware of the scriptural reference for this statement.

If you could be so kind as to supply the reference relating to economic collapse.

Thanks.

Hi David, My thinking revolves around the economic situation described in Revelation chapter 6 and 13 where I think we can safely conclude the world will experience serious economic turmoil that leads to a one world economy and a one world government. I think we can see that we may very well be currently on the cliff's edge as I type.

As the American economy goes along with the dollar so goes the world's economies. Our economy is riddled with debt and many world countries are losing faith in the dollar. We can not continue to print money with out destroying the value and faith in our currency. I am not sure what the tipping point will be but I fear it will not take much...maybe it is the rapture of the church.

Anyway if we are close to the tribulation and I believe we could be then the AC can not step onto the world scene without some experience. Frankly, I have no idea who "he" may be and to speculate to me is pointless but some may consider it "fun"? I plan to be gone as a frim dispensationalist and a believer in a pre-trib rapture of the church.

God Bless

 

[rodd]

Hi David, My thinking revolves around the economic situation described in Revelation chapter 6 and 13 where I think we can safely conclude the world will experience serious economic turmoil that leads to a one world economy and a one world government. I think we can see that we may very well be currently on the cliff's edge as I type.

As the American economy goes along with the dollar so goes the world's economies. Our economy is riddled with debt and many world countries are losing faith in the dollar. We can not continue to print money with out destroying the value and faith in our currency. I am not sure what the tipping point will be but I fear it will not take much...maybe it is the rapture of the church.

Anyway if we are close to the tribulation and I believe we could be then the AC can not step onto the world scene without some experience. Frankly, I have no idea who "he" may be and to speculate to me is pointless but some may consider it "fun"? I plan to be gone as a frim dispensationalist and a believer in a pre-trib rapture of the church.

God Bless

VW and others,

Now I understand your hostility having stated your a pre-tribber, I suppose our personally chosen theologies refuse to accept the possibilities of others.
If you don't mind though, I don't play games of 'fun' with the word of God, nor is it just for intellectual amusement, at least for me.

Has anyone heard of the so called 'global financial crisis', this is what triggered the so called requirement to reform the world's financial system, championed by Nick S current president of the g20 and the hot topic in his recent round of talks with the member nations.
It's the 3rd horseman of Rev 6, or great lie that centralizes authority over the global monetary system, this has to be in place when AC comes to power, otherwise he couldn't forfill the prophesy regarding buying and selling.
It obvious then, he'd be a western leader to gain control over global finances, comodity, money markets, and global banking conglomerates that are Western and always have been.
What I'm saying is the black horse has happened, and on the back of that lie, they will be able to justify to the ignorant any modification to financial transacting they wish to, based upon the 'global financial crisis'. It was and is being orchestrated.
In this we see the Prophesies of John now being forfilled.
And don't think your economy upholds the worlds economy, all the worlds financing is 'old money European', your're actually the most indebted nation on earth, but Wall St is wealthy, separate economies, do you get it!

 

[WVMountaineers]

VW and others,

Now I understand your hostility having stated your a pre-tribber, I suppose our personally chosen theologies refuse to accept the possibilities of others.
If you don't mind though, I don't play games of 'fun' with the word of God, nor is it just for intellectual amusement, at least for me.

Has anyone heard of the so called 'global financial crisis', this is what triggered the so called requirement to reform the world's financial system, championed by Nick S current president of the g20 and the hot topic in his recent round of talks with the member nations.
It's the 3rd horseman of Rev 6, or great lie that centralizes authority over the global monetary system, this has to be in place when AC comes to power, otherwise he couldn't forfill the prophesy regarding buying and selling.
It obvious then, he'd be a western leader to gain control over global finances, comodity, money markets, and global banking conglomerates that are Western and always have been.
What I'm saying is the black horse has happened, and on the back of that lie, they will be able to justify to the ignorant any modification to financial transacting they wish to, based upon the 'global financial crisis'. It was and is being orchestrated.
In this we see the Prophesies of John now being forfilled.
And don't think your economy upholds the worlds economy, all the worlds financing is 'old money European', your're actually the most indebted nation on earth, but Wall St is wealthy, separate economies, do you get it!

Rodd I was attempting to defend you but did disagree about specualting about thee AC. We are not in the tribulation as the covenant has not yet been signed between Israel and the man of perdition as per Daniel 9. You should quit guessing IMO because the church will be long gone when he is revealed. If the tribulation had started you would know the AC for certain. The Bible tells us he rises up as the "political" savior of the world's economic disaster.

Regarding the American economy....the world is still trading in the dollar and that is what has allowed cheap oil for the USA. Our Country is in serious debt. In addition we are a consumer driven econmy that the world counts on for there economies. When we stop buying due to our collapse so will the rest of the world. We are now in a global economy all inter-related of which the USA economy still reigns supreme followed by Japan and China. I'm not sure where Europe ranks.

Do I get what?

 

[happyharold4]

In post #16 this list was given and I have a question about one of the entries---" Shall not regard the God of his fathers "----Every time I have read that, I have always felt the inference was that the AC would be of Jewish lineage based on "Our fathers"----Am I way off thinking this????

Also other posts inferred that we won't know the AC til he defiles the temple, or as another posted Israel makes a peace pact------What then would Rev 13:18 actually mean, we're saying no one can know and yet it is saying, "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."-----I've often wondered why the Lord implied that there would be those who had this wisdom but to date it seems no one has had such wisdom????????????Thanks for your help with these 2 questions.

Happy


- shall do according to his own will
- shall exalt himself above every god
- shall speak blasphemy against the God of gods
- shall prosper until the end
- shall not regard the God of his fathers
- shall not regard womens rights
- shall magnify himself above all
- shall honor a god of war
- shall honor this god of war with financial blessings
- shall honor this god of war against the most powerful nations

 

[rodd]

Rodd I was attempting to defend you but did disagree about specualting about thee AC. We are not in the tribulation as the covenant has not yet been signed between Israel and the man of perdition as per Daniel 9. You should quit guessing IMO because the church will be long gone when he is revealed. If the tribulation had started you would know the AC for certain. The Bible tells us he rises up as the "political" savior of the world's economic disaster.

Regarding the American economy....the world is still trading in the dollar and that is what has allowed cheap oil for the USA. Our Country is in serious debt. In addition we are a consumer driven econmy that the world counts on for there economies. When we stop buying due to our collapse so will the rest of the world. We are now in a global economy all inter-related of which the USA economy still reigns supreme followed by Japan and China. I'm not sure where Europe ranks.

Do I get what?

What you don't get, is, the business people, big corps, stock market big business is in the black, they're fine, the country ie, the workers of america, the tax paying masses, are so far in the red it doen't matter anymore. There are two economies, the national peoples economy is in catostrophic debt.
To whom? the Internatonal banking cartel who will soon be ditching the dollar as their international benchmark currency. Your currency is artificially valued.
If you read Revelation 6 3rd seal it talks about the staple economy as the wheat and the barey and the corporate economy as the oil and the wine, that's why wall st can thrive whilst main st suffers.
Now do you get it?
And, we will be here when antichrist is revealed, that's why the angel said to Daniel, lock up the words of this prophesy until the end, because we are now there, we can undertand the full revelation of this prophesy as now is the time.
It was given for our understanding, we who are to experience these days. Rev also says that he will persecute the saints for 42months. Jesus said when you see these times happening look up and know your redempton is drawing near. And the antichrist and false prophet will perform signs and wonders and their will be signs and wonders in the sky, Satan will use these even to try and decieve even the elect if that were possible, but we know its not.
These signs will decieve all those that don't belong to God, I have thought it could be aliens, space craft, demons in disguise, makes sense withall these sci-fi alien movies these days.
Look it up! Daniel and Rev.
Incidentally the first horseman began with 9/11. Which brought about the red 2nd horseman, then the false eco blackhorse, all these decietful lies have created the now world we are experiencing.
The 4th horseman will happen soon.

God bless.

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

The man of sin is the head of the Roman Catholic Church. It may not be the current Pope but there is one coming, if not the current one, which will tick all the right boxes. One of the titles of the Pope is 'Vicarivs Filii Dei' which means 'Vicar or Representative of the Son of God'. If you count the roman numerals in this title it adds up to 666: Vicarivs (112); Filii (53) and Dei (501). Also Jesus expressly states to call no man father on earth yet millions call the Pope, "Holy Father". There is a whole of other things which shows, plainly, that the Roman Catholic Church is indeed the cage of every filthy and unclean birds.

It says in Revelation 13 that one of the beast's head was wounded to death (this was Pagan Rome) and his deathly wound was healed (revived and became Papal Rome). Everyone is looking at political powers and saying that some head of state is the antichrist and so forth. The Vatican is where all the gold is. When the economies of the world come crashing down, and they will, who is going to step in? When the Roman Catholic Church joined with the State back in 325AD they died spiritually right there and went on to murder millions of innocent believers in the dark ages, and yet people conveniently forget this today. But God hasn't forgotten. The Roman Catholic Church will rise again in great satanic power in the great tribulation and murder those that don't take their mark, but the Bride of Jesus Christ will be gone in a rapture before this happens. This great tribulation time will be when the Lord returns to Israel (little Benjamin) and reveals himself to them. When Joseph revealed himself to his brethren including his true brother, Benjamin, where was his bride? She was safely somewhere in the Palace. So when the Lord comes to Israel, His Bride is safely in Heaven having escaped the great tribulation. Those that are not Jews and are persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church, will be those that missed the Lord's secret coming before the great tribulation, and they will 'sleep' through the millenium and come up at the white throne judgment. The Bride has already found grace in the Lord's sight having already been judged here on earth in their lifetime. They will reign through the millenium and will judge with Christ at the White throne Judgment.

 

[rodd]

The man of sin is the head of the Roman Catholic Church. It may not be the current Pope but there is one coming, if not the current one, which will tick all the right boxes. One of the titles of the Pope is 'Vicarivs Filii Dei' which means 'Vicar or Representative of the Son of God'. If you count the roman numerals in this title it adds up to 666: Vicarivs (112); Filii (53) and Dei (501). Also Jesus expressly states to call no man father on earth yet millions call the Pope, "Holy Father". There is a whole of other things which shows, plainly, that the Roman Catholic Church is indeed the cage of every filthy and unclean birds.

It says in Revelation 13 that one of the beast's head was wounded to death (this was Pagan Rome) and his deathly wound was healed (revived and became Papal Rome). Everyone is looking at political powers and saying that some head of state is the antichrist and so forth. The Vatican is where all the gold is. When the economies of the world come crashing down, and they will, who is going to step in? When the Roman Catholic Church joined with the State back in 325AD they died spiritually right there and went on to murder millions of innocent believers in the dark ages, and yet people conveniently forget this today. But God hasn't forgotten. The Roman Catholic Church will rise again in great satanic power in the great tribulation and murder those that don't take their mark, but the Bride of Jesus Christ will be gone in a rapture before this happens. This great tribulation time will be when the Lord returns to Israel (little Benjamin) and reveals himself to them. When Joseph revealed himself to his brethren including his true brother, Benjamin, where was his bride? She was safely somewhere in the Palace. So when the Lord comes to Israel, His Bride is safely in Heaven having escaped the great tribulation. Those that are not Jews and are persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church, will be those that missed the Lord's secret coming before the great tribulation, and they will 'sleep' through the millenium and come up at the white throne judgment. The Bride has already found grace in the Lord's sight having already been judged here on earth in their lifetime. They will reign through the millenium and will judge with Christ at the White throne Judgment.

Yes, the leader of the false church, Rome, will be the false prophet, the eighth pope king, inother words the next one in line.
Since the Lateran treaty we have had seven sovereign popes, the next is the eighth, as written in Revelation 17.
Wicki Lateran Treaty!
The antichrist (political) and the false prophet (ecclesiastical) will both be thrown into the lake of fire, there are two my friend, read the book of revelation carefully, you'll find it, there is one antichrist and one false prophet, both against Christians.

 

[Kinjaffa]

In post #16 this list was given and I have a question about one of the entries---" Shall not regard the God of his fathers "----Every time I have read that, I have always felt the inference was that the AC would be of Jewish lineage based on "Our fathers"----Am I way off thinking this????

Also other posts inferred that we won't know the AC til he defiles the temple, or as another posted Israel makes a peace pact------What then would Rev 13:18 actually mean, we're saying no one can know and yet it is saying, "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."-----I've often wondered why the Lord implied that there would be those who had this wisdom but to date it seems no one has had such wisdom????????????Thanks for your help with these 2 questions.

Happy


- shall do according to his own will
- shall exalt himself above every god
- shall speak blasphemy against the God of gods
- shall prosper until the end
- shall not regard the God of his fathers
- shall not regard womens rights
- shall magnify himself above all
- shall honor a god of war
- shall honor this god of war with financial blessings
- shall honor this god of war against the most powerful nations

If you want to see the men who had the wisdom to solve this cryptic scripture, go to Youtube and see what Walid Shoebat and Chuck Missler have learned. Search "Walid Shoebat 666" and everything will begin to make sense. Forget about all these weirdos that claim that the antichrist is the French president, or the pope or anything like that. Just take the bible for what it says.

 

[Kinjaffa]

The man of sin is the head of the Roman Catholic Church. It may not be the current Pope but there is one coming, if not the current one, which will tick all the right boxes. One of the titles of the Pope is 'Vicarivs Filii Dei' which means 'Vicar or Representative of the Son of God'. If you count the roman numerals in this title it adds up to 666: Vicarivs (112); Filii (53) and Dei (501). Also Jesus expressly states to call no man father on earth yet millions call the Pope, "Holy Father". There is a whole of other things which shows, plainly, that the Roman Catholic Church is indeed the cage of every filthy and unclean birds.

It says in Revelation 13 that one of the beast's head was wounded to death (this was Pagan Rome) and his deathly wound was healed (revived and became Papal Rome). Everyone is looking at political powers and saying that some head of state is the antichrist and so forth. The Vatican is where all the gold is. When the economies of the world come crashing down, and they will, who is going to step in? When the Roman Catholic Church joined with the State back in 325AD they died spiritually right there and went on to murder millions of innocent believers in the dark ages, and yet people conveniently forget this today. But God hasn't forgotten. The Roman Catholic Church will rise again in great satanic power in the great tribulation and murder those that don't take their mark, but the Bride of Jesus Christ will be gone in a rapture before this happens. This great tribulation time will be when the Lord returns to Israel (little Benjamin) and reveals himself to them. When Joseph revealed himself to his brethren including his true brother, Benjamin, where was his bride? She was safely somewhere in the Palace. So when the Lord comes to Israel, His Bride is safely in Heaven having escaped the great tribulation. Those that are not Jews and are persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church, will be those that missed the Lord's secret coming before the great tribulation, and they will 'sleep' through the millenium and come up at the white throne judgment. The Bride has already found grace in the Lord's sight having already been judged here on earth in their lifetime. They will reign through the millenium and will judge with Christ at the White throne Judgment.

The seven heads of the beast (Revelation 17:10):

"FIVE ARE FALLEN"

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece

"ONE IS"

Rome

"AND THE LAST IS YET TO COME"

The Ottoman Turks (Muslims) were the succeeding empire after Rome fell. The Ottoman/Muslim empire lasted up until world war 1. This Ottoman/Muslim empire was the head being referred to in Revelation 13. It was wounded, and now it is being healed again via a HUGE Muslim rebound. Watch closely as the country of Turkey reasserts itself as a power to reckon with!

Yeshua said himself in Revelation 2:13 while addressing the church in Pergamum, Turkey, "I know that you live in the CITY where Satan has his throne, yet you have remained loyal to me. You refused to deny me even when Antipas, my faithful witness, was martyred among you there in Satan's CITY."

Don't you get it? The AC's 10 nation confederacy has NOTHING to do with France, England, America or anything western. The 10 nations that the AC will rule will ultimately be destroyed by Yeshua at Armageddon. Realize that Rome is mentioned 15 times throughout the bible. Spain is mentioned twice and yet in NONE of these instances are these western nations mentioned as being destroyed! However, every single instance where Yeshua himself comes to fight Israel's enemy in the end of days, the countries he comes to fight are now MUSLIM nations! The bible doesn't say that Yeshua comes to France to fight Sarkosy, or to Vatican city to fight the Pope!

The following are a few examples of what Yeshua will do in the last days:

Isaiah 63 - Yeshua goes to Edom (Jordan and parts of Saudi Arabia, both Muslim nations) and slaughters Israels enemies!

Joel 3 - The Lord will personally gather the evil nations of the world that divided the land of Israel, and here he will slaughter these nations! In verse 4 he specifies Tyre and Sidon (two places in Lebanon a Muslim country).

Habakkuk 3 - The Lord comes to fight Edom (Jordan and parts of Saudi Arabia, both Muslim nations). He also comes to fight the peopel of Cushan and Midian (This is Arabia, more Muslim nations).

Isaiah 10 - In verse 16 The Lord of Heaven's Armies will send a plague on the Assyrian (Another Muslim country) armies and slaughter them!

Psalm 83 - A large confederacy of MUSLIM nations will attack Israel! Such nations include Edomites, Ishmaelites, Moabites , Hagrites, Gebalites, Ammonites, Amalekites, people from Philistia and Tyre, Assyria , the descendants of Lot. All of which are Muslim nations today.

Ezekiel 38/39 - Persia (Iran) leads a confederacy of Muslim nations to plunder Israel. The Lord intervenes and destroys them!

Micah 5 - It is the Assyrian(s) who invade Israel. Again, a Muslim nation. The Lord then assembles 7 shepherd kings do drive out the Assyrian/Muslim invaders.

You see it is so clear. The Antichrist has NOTHING to do with western Europe. Every single time we see the Lord fighting nations in the end of days, He is fighting Muslim nations. It doesn't say that Rome, France, Germany , England or the European Union is attacking Israel. It doesn't say that Yeshua brings judgment on western European states. It clearly states that He will bring judgement upon eastern states that are today MUSLIM states!

 

[rodd]

The seven heads of the beast (Revelation 17:10):

"FIVE ARE FALLEN"

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece

"ONE IS"

Rome

"AND THE LAST IS YET TO COME"

The Ottoman Turks (Muslims) were the succeeding empire after Rome fell. The Ottoman/Muslim empire lasted up until world war 1. This Ottoman/Muslim empire was the head being referred to in Revelation 13. It was wounded, and now it is being healed again via a HUGE Muslim rebound. Watch closely as the country of Turkey reasserts itself as a power to reckon with!

Yeshua said himself in Revelation 2:13 while addressing the church in Pergamum, Turkey, "I know that you live in the CITY where Satan has his throne, yet you have remained loyal to me. You refused to deny me even when Antipas, my faithful witness, was martyred among you there in Satan's CITY."

Don't you get it? The AC's 10 nation confederacy has NOTHING to do with France, England, America or anything western. The 10 nations that the AC will rule will ultimately be destroyed by Yeshua at Armageddon. Realize that Rome is mentioned 15 times throughout the bible. Spain is mentioned twice and yet in NONE of these instances are these western nations mentioned as being destroyed! However, every single instance where Yeshua himself comes to fight Israel's enemy in the end of days, the countries he comes to fight are now MUSLIM nations! The bible doesn't say that Yeshua comes to France to fight Sarkosy, or to Vatican city to fight the Pope!

The following are a few examples of what Yeshua will do in the last days:

Isaiah 63 - Yeshua goes to Edom (Jordan and parts of Saudi Arabia, both Muslim nations) and slaughters Israels enemies!

Joel 3 - The Lord will personally gather the evil nations of the world that divided the land of Israel, and here he will slaughter these nations! In verse 4 he specifies Tyre and Sidon (two places in Lebanon a Muslim country).

Habakkuk 3 - The Lord comes to fight Edom (Jordan and parts of Saudi Arabia, both Muslim nations). He also comes to fight the peopel of Cushan and Midian (This is Arabia, more Muslim nations).

Isaiah 10 - In verse 16 The Lord of Heaven's Armies will send a plague on the Assyrian (Another Muslim country) armies and slaughter them!

Psalm 83 - A large confederacy of MUSLIM nations will attack Israel! Such nations include Edomites, Ishmaelites, Moabites , Hagrites, Gebalites, Ammonites, Amalekites, people from Philistia and Tyre, Assyria , the descendants of Lot. All of which are Muslim nations today.

Ezekiel 38/39 - Persia (Iran) leads a confederacy of Muslim nations to plunder Israel. The Lord intervenes and destroys them!

Micah 5 - It is the Assyrian(s) who invade Israel. Again, a Muslim nation. The Lord then assembles 7 shepherd kings do drive out the Assyrian/Muslim invaders.

You see it is so clear. The Antichrist has NOTHING to do with western Europe. Every single time we see the Lord fighting nations in the end of days, He is fighting Muslim nations. It doesn't say that Rome, France, Germany , England or the European Union is attacking Israel. It doesn't say that Yeshua brings judgment on western European states. It clearly states that He will bring judgement upon eastern states that are today MUSLIM states!

Your 're so far off you may as well be on Mars!!

 

[Kinjaffa]

Proverbs 10:14 - "The wise lay up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool brings ruin near."

Where is your knowledge Rodd?

Prov 18:2 - "A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion."

I have noted your opinion, although it is folly. Where is your understanding?

Prove me wrong. Show me one single nation in the Bible, that the Lord fights that is NOT a Muslim nation. Please, I beg you, prove to me that my post above is incorrect. I REALLLLY hate it when people make stupid posts that simply say, "Your wrong and I am right." Please try to back up your claims with evidence.

 

[rodd]

Proverbs 10:14 - "The wise lay up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool brings ruin near."

Where is your knowledge Rodd?

Prov 18:2 - "A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion."

I have noted your opinion, although it is folly. Where is your understanding?

Prove me wrong. Show me one single nation in the Bible, that the Lord fights that is NOT a Muslim nation. Please, I beg you, prove to me that my post above is incorrect. I REALLLLY hate it when people make stupid posts that simply say, "Your wrong and I am right." Please try to back up your claims with evidence.

I ask you! use basic common sense, who's plundering who at present?
Don't think with your emotions, or your preferred political perspective, ask yourself, what is really happening?

Those who recieve the mark of the beast will not go into the millenial age, I wonder what countries of the world would more than likely be the ones to recieve it!! America, England, etc, all those wealthy countries that plunder the world, the high-tech west, that's my guess, makes sense doesn't it?
Sorry for the Mars comment, but, you're way out, sorry!

 

[WVMountaineers]

These scriptures may be relevant...“For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all the nations and bring them to the Valley of Jehoshaphat ["the Lord judges"]. Then I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; and they have divided up My land.” (Book of Joel 3:1-2).

Genesis 12:3... keeps coming to mind; you know, here in scripture we see that God definitively states, " I will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel." Related to that, is God's judgment of those nations who attempt to divide Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:3)

I think that some also think parts of Germany and Russia potentially involved in the Gog-magog war where we read the list of countries in Ezekiel 38-39. There is some question about Germany but pretty much universal acceptance that Russia is Rosh, the country from the north.

I do think however that most of the Countries coming against Israel in the Great Middle East war (Isaiah 17) and in the Gog-magog war (Ezekiel 38-39) are muslim Countries.

 

[Kinjaffa]

I ask you! use basic common sense, who's plundering who at present?
Don't think with your emotions, or your preferred political perspective, ask yourself, what is really happening?

Those who recieve the mark of the beast will not go into the millenial age, I wonder what countries of the world would more than likely be the ones to recieve it!! America, England, etc, all those wealthy countries that plunder the world, the high-tech west, that's my guess, makes sense doesn't it?
Sorry for the Mars comment, but, you're way out, sorry!

Clearly you are not wise, for a wise man would have done more than state his opinion as noted in Proverbs 18:2.

I asked you to prove me wrong, you did not.
I asked you to show me one nation that the Lord fights that is NOT a Muslim nation, you did not.
I asked you to back up your statements, you did not.

Surely if your theory is correct, you can show ONE nation that the Lord fights that is a western state and not a Muslim state...

I understand that currently it is the western states that are plundering the middle east, but you need to go read Ezekiel 38 and 39. As well as Psalm 83 and Joel 3 and Habakkuk 3 and realize that in every incident in the end of days, it is MUSLIM nations that attempt to plunder Israel!

Also keep in mind that even in recent history, it is MUSLIM nations that have plundered Israel. Have you forgotten the Yom Kippur war in 1973? Or the 6 day war in 1967? Both times, MUSLIM nations tried to plunder Israel. Neither France nor any western state was involved! Also, it is the MUSLIM terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah that have plundered Israel and taken over the Gaza strip, the West Bank and the Golan Heights. It was not France! It was not a western attack! Don't you get the picture? Do you not see the pattern?

Furthermore, you made a statement that it must be "high tech westernized" nations that receive the mark. You aren't one of those dudes who think the mark of the beast is some micro chip or bar code are you? Because if you read Revelation 13 in the original Greek wording, it clearly rules out any such possibility.

 

[Kinjaffa]

These scriptures may be relevant...“For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all the nations and bring them to the Valley of Jehoshaphat ["the Lord judges"]. Then I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; and they have divided up My land.” (Book of Joel 3:1-2).

Genesis 12:3... keeps coming to mind; you know, here in scripture we see that God definitively states, " I will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel." Related to that, is God's judgment of those nations who attempt to divide Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:3)

I think that some also think parts of Germany and Russia potentially involved in the Gog-magog war where we read the list of countries in Ezekiel 38-39. There is some question about Germany but pretty much universal acceptance that Russia is Rosh, the country from the north.

I do think however that most of the Countries coming against Israel in the Great Middle East war (Isaiah 17) and in the Gog-magog war (Ezekiel 38-39) are muslim Countries.

The Germany theory is silly. There is no mention of a German nation in Ezekiel 38/39. And it is only in some translations that we see the word "Rosh".

But even in those few translations, the Hebrew word Rosh simply means leader/prince/chief. So when we read "...Magog, the prince of Rosh of Meshach and Tubal..." it is more accurately translated as, "...Magog , the chief leader/prince of Meschach and Tubal..."

This is why MOST translations do not mention Rosh as a nation. The Bible sitting on your desk probably does not even mention Rosh in Ezekiel 38 and 39. But even if you were to claim that Rosh and Magog refer to Russia, what historians like Josephus and Herodotus say that these people lived at the SOUTHERN steps of what we call Russia today. These people are also known as the Scythians (go on, Google it!). And by the way, all the nations at the southern steps of Russia (the commonwealth of independent states) are Muslim states.

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

One thing to bear in mind here is that the way God deals with Israel differs to the way he deals with the 'gentiles'. He deals with Israel as a nation and one of these days he will turn from the gentiles to the Jews, as he turned from the Jews 2000 years ago to the gentiles. God deals with christians on an individual basis - one on one. The gentiles' days are numbered and the threat they face does not come from 'muslim' countries but from something nearer to home, something which would deceive the elect, if it were possible. Islam is distinctively different and wouldn't deceive christians in the slightest. Wolves in sheep clothing within the framework of the christian world would.

Besides, hatred for Israel doesn't really come from Islam or Mohammed. It is the seed of Ishmael warring against the seed of Israel. The seed of Ishmael hate Israel because they are not the chosen people of God (although they think they are). In the end, the whole world will turn against Israel but God will establish them. Just you wait and see.

It is not Islam, or Communism but it is Roman Catholicism that christians must fear. All I can say further on this subject is just wait and see. It is going to happen regardless of what anyone might say. Islam attacks the Word from without. Roman Catholicism attacks the Word from within. Which is more dangerous? Fear God though and believe His Word, and you need not fear anything.

I don't think we should be resorting to telling people they are unwise and foolish. It is quite unchristian-like. Also, demanding someone to prove something is what the world would do. They want proof. Christians live by faith, nothing else. If you cannot understand something, leave it and move on. God will reveal to you what he wants you to know. We cannot learn this Bible intellectually. It is by revelation and revelation only! We need to approach a difficult or controversial subject carefully and prayerfully, and mind not to say silly comments about people. We need to maintain our testimony.